14 ms·

Increase in delirium, rare brain inflammation and stroke linked to Covid-19

152 points by graeme 6y ago

SimeVidas 6y ago
If Trump gets brain damage from COVID-19, how will we be able to tell?
irjustin 6y ago
I'll admit - I'm skeptical and think we should take this headline with a grain of salt. There's plenty of reasons to fear COVID but is brain damage really any more reason to fear it than the standard fever? i.e. are people getting brain damage from COVID itself or as a result of uncontrolled fever? 43 cases and the lack of wider spread makes me want to see more data before trying to sound any alarm bells.
- oillio 6y ago
  There has been reports of blood related complications with COVID infections; inflammation and blood clots. Anecdotal, but here is one case: https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3091949/coronavirus-broadway-actor-nick-cordero-who-had-leg-amputated https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3091949/coron... And a Nature article with more information: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01403-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01403-8 Obviously it is too soon to tell, but this may be more of the same. It is concerning because we expect a large number of people to be exposed to this virus. Even a small chance of long term damage ends up with a lot of cases with the numbers we are expecting. Additionally, it may change the calculus of so called herd immunity strategies. Though it is a little late for that.
  - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
    FWIW, blood clotting, strokes, etc are known complications of pathological cytokine release syndrome, and we see these same symptoms occurring in other diseases like Influenza. Unfortunately there is a huge faction of people who seek to selectively represent facts to promulgate the narrative that SARS-CoV-2 is unusually dangerous, which as far as I can tell is just completely false. SARS-2 is a great spreader and a very poor killer. Those interested in learning about hoe it spreads might find some of the research findings around interferon-mediated early course immunosuppression interesting. IMO it is a plausible mechanism for why SARS-2 exhibits PRE-symptomatic spread (not asymptomatic). BTW the above (great spreader, with outcomes overwhelmingly positive) is precisely why I think SARS-2 was the worst possible candidate to respond to with a “lockdown”. It really saddens me to see destructive and unethical measures paraded as “common sense”, when they’re anything but. [/rant]
    - emersonrsantos 6y ago
      Is this why they say nicotine may be a protective drug? Cigarette smoking products suppress anti-viral effects of Type I interferon via phosphorylation-dependent downregulation of its receptor - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2567056/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2567056/
      - Scoundreller 6y ago
        It might be the smoke and not the nicotine. Lots of non-smoking methods of getting nicotine that may not help. And lots of ways of breathing in smoke that don’t involve nicotine.
    - emersonrsantos 6y ago
      Also, hidrohychloroquine downregulates interferon activation... too good to be true? https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/article/59/1/107/5523045 https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/article/59/1/107/55230...
    - Fjolsvith 6y ago
      "It is tempting to surmise that the complicated pandemic definitions used by the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention of the United States of America involved severity in a deliberate attempt to garner political attention and financial support for pandemic preparedness." [1] 1. https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/7/11-088815/en/ https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/7/11-088815/en/
    - jquery 6y ago
      I’m getting a little exhausted with doom and gloom that fails to contextualize exactly how much worse things are than an abnormally bad flu season + pneumonia season. If you tell people that they will have lingering effects from a flu or cold, they are much more likely to report lingering effects. People are quite suggestible and medicine is complex.
      - Godel_unicode 6y ago
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  I feel like there’s a weird god of the gaps element to covid harm. Instead of recognizing that seemingly an overwhelming majority of people are fine and don’t suffer much adverse effects if any, there’s this automatic dwelling on extremely low probability extreme “invisible damage”. I’m increasingly convinced people are unsettled by the possibility that this could be anything other than civilization ending and the mask averse amongst us aren’t murderers. The desire for moral condemnation is too strong.
  - badRNG 6y ago
    > I’m increasingly convinced people are unsettled by the possibility that this could be anything other than civilization ending and the mask averse amongst us aren’t murderers. In just the past couple of months, COVID-19 has racked up a body count of 130,000 dead Americans. For perspective, that's forty-five 9/11s worth of dead people. Asking people to wear a mask in public to curtail the spread saves lives. This has nothing to do with "desiring moral condemnation." The "mask adverse" can likely bear the burden of at least 1/45 of the deaths America has had compared to it's less "mask adverse" peers. I absolutely hate wearing a mask, I'm "mask adverse" like yourself, but I wear one since this is a trolley problem where pulling the lever means I have to be uncomfortable for a few hours.
    - jakeogh 6y ago
      So, roughly twice as bad as a normal year flu/pneumonia count? https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/influenza-and-pneumonia-deaths-2008-2015.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/influenza-and-pn... CDC #'s 2015-2016 Flu: 7,961 Pneumonia: 131,858 All: 1,769,940 And, the death stats are inflated, it's official: http://v6y.net/1541e03e6cfd1442590bc7b5476f88c30a29a0d881bdb943bb48c3cfb6cdf527.mp4 http://v6y.net/1541e03e6cfd1442590bc7b5476f88c30a29a0d881bdb... The only real measure is excess deaths.
      - Fjolsvith 6y ago
        "The state of Florida has had 82,397 people 34 & under test positive for the coronavirus. Of that number, 28 have died. That’s a coronavirus death rate of .00034. They’ve had 144,210 54 and under test positive. That’s a .0016 death rate." [1] 1. https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1280250042603929604 https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1280250042603929604
- nradov 6y ago
  I doubt that SARS-CoV-2 is unique in this regard. A lot of people have neurological problems with no clear root cause. My hypothesis is that many of those cases were caused by viral infections. But we've never really looked.
  - zzleeper 6y ago
    I recall reading about similar things in papers on the 1918 pandemic as well as SARS and other respiratory diseases. So it's not that far fetched off
- Enginerrrd 6y ago
  Well there are definitely hints of some level of neurologic involvement: loss of taste and smell, very strange presentation where people with low O2 sats aren't in respiratory distress (CNS depression?), and occasional reports of confirmed encephalopathy. SARS and MERS also have shown an ability to be neuroinvasive. I'd be more skeptical of a claim that it for sure DOESN'T have neurologic involvement.
  - jaekash 6y ago
    > loss of taste and smell Not necessarily neurological and this is the first I heard that the loss of smell is neurological as opposed to physical[1]. But I guess everybody is a doctor now so go right ahead and say anything you like without any evidence. I mean what is the worse that could happen by spreading misinformation as long as it makes people more afraid? [1]: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-covid-19-makes-people-lose-their-sense-of-smell1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-covid-19-make...
    - carlmr 6y ago
      I'm not sure why you're attacking OP. They have been reporting neurological loss of smell since March in almost every news source. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-symptoms-smell-taste.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-sympto... https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lost-smell-and-taste-hint-covid-19-can-target-the-nervous-system-67312 https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lost-smell-and-ta... https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/loss-of-smell-confusion-strokes-does-covid-19-target-the-nervous-system https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/loss-of-smell-confus... https://m.economictimes.com/magazines/panache/not-just-loss-of-taste-dizziness-covid-19-may-pose-a-threat-to-entire-nervous-system-shows-study/articleshow/76340314.cms https://m.economictimes.com/magazines/panache/not-just-loss-... https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infection https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-ef...
      - jaekash 6y ago
        Your first link, https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-symptoms-smell-taste.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-sympto... - makes no indication that the loss of smell is neurological. Your second link is purely speculative and not a report of neurological loss of smell. Spare your gish gallop for someone else.
- Animats 6y ago
  This tells doctors what to look for. ADEM is treatable, so if someone has this complication, it's important to detect it.
- Alex3917 6y ago
  > i.e. are people getting brain damage from COVID itself or as a result of uncontrolled fever? Covid kills lung and blood vessel cells by depleting their ACE2 receptors. So if you develop a fever as one of your Covid symptoms, whatever inflammation is caused by that may well be only a small fraction of the total inflammation caused by the disease.
fovc 6y ago
Much more detail and link to original paper through here: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-delirium-rare-brain-inflammation-linked.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-delirium-rare-brain-i...
- mirimir 6y ago
  Thanks. That ought to be TFA's URL. Paper: https://sci-hub.st/http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/brain/awaa240 https://sci-hub.st/http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/brain/awaa240
- dang 6y ago
  Ok, we've changed to that from https://montrealgazette.com/news/world/scientists-warn-of-potential-wave-of-covid-linked-brain-damage/wcm/73937fe3-1530-42f6-a854-6a393ec73c1a/ https://montrealgazette.com/news/world/scientists-warn-of-po.... Thanks!
- graeme 6y ago
  Thanks! (I did the original submission)
ghastmaster 6y ago
> Given that the disease has only been around for a matter of months, we might not yet know what long-term damage COVID-19 can cause Statements like this, are quite disingenuous, especially when taken out of context. Using qualifiers like "Might" and "can" in the same sentence is par for the course for the propaganda I have seen over the past few months. Headlines and reports are repleat with what ifs and every sci-fi pathogen trope you can read. Coronaviruses are not new to science. Pick any pathogen and take the rare cases of odd symptoms and spread it on every network. See how the public reacts. Give me science! Few if any of our politicians are going on stage talking up the need for randomized studies. They scare us and we panic.
- Darkphibre 6y ago
  There is a LOT of anecdotal evidence COVID affects the neural system (it's even been found there during autopsies). The challenge for scientists is they need to raise the concerns during emergencies before the final 99.999% confidence 3-year double-blind studies are completed. So they couch their terms in language that allows for understanding the lack of absolutes.
  - ghastmaster 6y ago
    As an example, one of the patients had a fever for 14 days and began doing odd things. This is not new or unique to covid. Long fever alone causes a whole host of problems. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944485/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944485/ > Neurological and cognitive dysfunction may occur acutely after an episode of hyperthermia and may lead to chronic damage, reported to occur in 50 % of survivors discharged from an ICU after heatstroke [87]. The pathophysiological mechanisms are presumed to be similar to those described above, but, in addition, the integrity of the BBB is disrupted allowing translocation of systemic toxins to enter the cerebral circulation. If neurological symptoms fail to improve after the acute episode, cerebellar dysfunction predominates. This is thought to be a result of the sensitivity of the Purkinje cells to thermal damage.
    - autoexec 6y ago
0x8BADF00D 6y ago
This is a much more sensationalist piece than it ought to be. When a patient has a stroke, they will obviously develop brain damage. That is the definition of a stroke - a cerebrovascular accident. The title should be "brain injury causes brain damage".
- GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
  How is it sensational? The linked medical paper [see other parent comment] shows a link between COVID and brain inflammation, stroke, etc.
  - spaced-out 6y ago
    Comments like the one you responded to are what some people do to cope with all this.
  - 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
    There is a link between living a sedentary lifestyle and developing cardiovascular issues like stroke and heart attack. But that’s ok. Continue hiding in your room like the government tells you to.
    - GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
      There's no place for comments like this on HN.
      - 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
        If my comment will make someone think and question narratives, it is worth it. Even if it is getting downvoted heavily or flagged. There is a reason why the Socratic method works.
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  That proposed title subtly promotes the "covid isn't that bad" theory by hiding some of its worse outcomes. I can't do anything about the proximal cause, I can however protect against the distal.
jurschreuder 6y ago
Isn't this just the man on the deserted island losing his grip, talking to a volleyball and having delirium / psychotic symptoms? A symptom of lockdown, side effect of the preventive treatment. Wikipedia: Solitary confinement has received severe criticism for having detrimental psychological effects[2] and, to some and in some cases, constituting torture.[3] According to a 2017 review study, "a robust scientific literature has established the negative psychological effects of solitary confinement", leading to "an emerging consensus among correctional as well as professional, mental health, legal, and human rights organizations to drastically limit the use of solitary confinement."[4] "Psychological effects can include anxiety, depression, anger, cognitive disturbances, perceptual distortions, obsessive thoughts, paranoia, and psychosis."[21]
- throwanem 6y ago
  You don't get encephalitis from being lonely.
  - Fjolsvith 6y ago
    "Dr. Raji said, "Gray matter volume is a key marker of brain health. Larger gray matter volume means a healthier brain. Shrinking volume is seen in Alzheimer's disease. Gray matter includes neurons that function in cognition and higher order cognitive processes. The areas of the brain that benefited from an active lifestyle are the ones that consume the most energy and are very sensitive to damage." [1] But you can experience bad brain health from inactivity. 1. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201212/the-brain-drain-inactivity https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201...
loudlambda 6y ago
There's going to be a wave of mask related brain damage from people not getting enough oxygen.
bE9a3S5So8igd3 6y ago
Not counter-narrative. Not-flagged
onetimemanytime 6y ago
In other words, try not to catch this thing before vaccines or treatments are here. Not one infected person has praised it, AFAIK. Strokes, heart attacks, thrombosis, kidney failure, lung problems (possibly for life,) nervous system issues, brain damage...what else is left?
- zwily 6y ago
  Why would an infected person ever praise a virus?
dstola 6y ago
> a detailed account of neurological symptoms of 43 people The sample size is extremely small, and there is already selection bias because of pre-screening for neurological symptoms > who had either confirmed or suspected Covid-19 really, they couldn't test the 43 people for covid that they were doing a study on?

152 points by graeme 6y ago

If Trump gets brain damage from COVID-19, how will we be able to tell?

I'll admit - I'm skeptical and think we should take this headline with a grain of salt. There's plenty of reasons to fear COVID but is brain damage really any more reason to fear it than the standard fever? i.e. are people getting brain damage from COVID itself or as a result of uncontrolled fever? 43 cases and the lack of wider spread makes me want to see more data before trying to sound any alarm bells.

oillio 6y ago
There has been reports of blood related complications with COVID infections; inflammation and blood clots. Anecdotal, but here is one case: https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3091949/coronavirus-broadway-actor-nick-cordero-who-had-leg-amputated https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3091949/coron... And a Nature article with more information: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01403-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01403-8 Obviously it is too soon to tell, but this may be more of the same. It is concerning because we expect a large number of people to be exposed to this virus. Even a small chance of long term damage ends up with a lot of cases with the numbers we are expecting. Additionally, it may change the calculus of so called herd immunity strategies. Though it is a little late for that.
- __blockcipher__ 6y ago
  FWIW, blood clotting, strokes, etc are known complications of pathological cytokine release syndrome, and we see these same symptoms occurring in other diseases like Influenza. Unfortunately there is a huge faction of people who seek to selectively represent facts to promulgate the narrative that SARS-CoV-2 is unusually dangerous, which as far as I can tell is just completely false. SARS-2 is a great spreader and a very poor killer. Those interested in learning about hoe it spreads might find some of the research findings around interferon-mediated early course immunosuppression interesting. IMO it is a plausible mechanism for why SARS-2 exhibits PRE-symptomatic spread (not asymptomatic). BTW the above (great spreader, with outcomes overwhelmingly positive) is precisely why I think SARS-2 was the worst possible candidate to respond to with a “lockdown”. It really saddens me to see destructive and unethical measures paraded as “common sense”, when they’re anything but. [/rant]
  - emersonrsantos 6y ago
    Is this why they say nicotine may be a protective drug? Cigarette smoking products suppress anti-viral effects of Type I interferon via phosphorylation-dependent downregulation of its receptor - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2567056/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2567056/
    - Scoundreller 6y ago
      It might be the smoke and not the nicotine. Lots of non-smoking methods of getting nicotine that may not help. And lots of ways of breathing in smoke that don’t involve nicotine.
  - emersonrsantos 6y ago
    Also, hidrohychloroquine downregulates interferon activation... too good to be true? https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/article/59/1/107/5523045 https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/article/59/1/107/55230...
  - Fjolsvith 6y ago
    "It is tempting to surmise that the complicated pandemic definitions used by the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention of the United States of America involved severity in a deliberate attempt to garner political attention and financial support for pandemic preparedness." [1] 1. https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/7/11-088815/en/ https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/7/11-088815/en/
  - jquery 6y ago
    I’m getting a little exhausted with doom and gloom that fails to contextualize exactly how much worse things are than an abnormally bad flu season + pneumonia season. If you tell people that they will have lingering effects from a flu or cold, they are much more likely to report lingering effects. People are quite suggestible and medicine is complex.
    - Godel_unicode 6y ago
gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
I feel like there’s a weird god of the gaps element to covid harm. Instead of recognizing that seemingly an overwhelming majority of people are fine and don’t suffer much adverse effects if any, there’s this automatic dwelling on extremely low probability extreme “invisible damage”. I’m increasingly convinced people are unsettled by the possibility that this could be anything other than civilization ending and the mask averse amongst us aren’t murderers. The desire for moral condemnation is too strong.
- badRNG 6y ago
  > I’m increasingly convinced people are unsettled by the possibility that this could be anything other than civilization ending and the mask averse amongst us aren’t murderers. In just the past couple of months, COVID-19 has racked up a body count of 130,000 dead Americans. For perspective, that's forty-five 9/11s worth of dead people. Asking people to wear a mask in public to curtail the spread saves lives. This has nothing to do with "desiring moral condemnation." The "mask adverse" can likely bear the burden of at least 1/45 of the deaths America has had compared to it's less "mask adverse" peers. I absolutely hate wearing a mask, I'm "mask adverse" like yourself, but I wear one since this is a trolley problem where pulling the lever means I have to be uncomfortable for a few hours.
  - jakeogh 6y ago
    So, roughly twice as bad as a normal year flu/pneumonia count? https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/influenza-and-pneumonia-deaths-2008-2015.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/influenza-and-pn... CDC #'s 2015-2016 Flu: 7,961 Pneumonia: 131,858 All: 1,769,940 And, the death stats are inflated, it's official: http://v6y.net/1541e03e6cfd1442590bc7b5476f88c30a29a0d881bdb943bb48c3cfb6cdf527.mp4 http://v6y.net/1541e03e6cfd1442590bc7b5476f88c30a29a0d881bdb... The only real measure is excess deaths.
    - Fjolsvith 6y ago
      "The state of Florida has had 82,397 people 34 & under test positive for the coronavirus. Of that number, 28 have died. That’s a coronavirus death rate of .00034. They’ve had 144,210 54 and under test positive. That’s a .0016 death rate." [1] 1. https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1280250042603929604 https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1280250042603929604
nradov 6y ago
I doubt that SARS-CoV-2 is unique in this regard. A lot of people have neurological problems with no clear root cause. My hypothesis is that many of those cases were caused by viral infections. But we've never really looked.
- zzleeper 6y ago
  I recall reading about similar things in papers on the 1918 pandemic as well as SARS and other respiratory diseases. So it's not that far fetched off
Enginerrrd 6y ago
Well there are definitely hints of some level of neurologic involvement: loss of taste and smell, very strange presentation where people with low O2 sats aren't in respiratory distress (CNS depression?), and occasional reports of confirmed encephalopathy. SARS and MERS also have shown an ability to be neuroinvasive. I'd be more skeptical of a claim that it for sure DOESN'T have neurologic involvement.
- jaekash 6y ago
  > loss of taste and smell Not necessarily neurological and this is the first I heard that the loss of smell is neurological as opposed to physical[1]. But I guess everybody is a doctor now so go right ahead and say anything you like without any evidence. I mean what is the worse that could happen by spreading misinformation as long as it makes people more afraid? [1]: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-covid-19-makes-people-lose-their-sense-of-smell1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-covid-19-make...
  - carlmr 6y ago
    I'm not sure why you're attacking OP. They have been reporting neurological loss of smell since March in almost every news source. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-symptoms-smell-taste.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-sympto... https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lost-smell-and-taste-hint-covid-19-can-target-the-nervous-system-67312 https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/lost-smell-and-ta... https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/loss-of-smell-confusion-strokes-does-covid-19-target-the-nervous-system https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/loss-of-smell-confus... https://m.economictimes.com/magazines/panache/not-just-loss-of-taste-dizziness-covid-19-may-pose-a-threat-to-entire-nervous-system-shows-study/articleshow/76340314.cms https://m.economictimes.com/magazines/panache/not-just-loss-... https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infection https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-ef...
    - jaekash 6y ago
      Your first link, https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-symptoms-smell-taste.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-sympto... - makes no indication that the loss of smell is neurological. Your second link is purely speculative and not a report of neurological loss of smell. Spare your gish gallop for someone else.
Animats 6y ago
This tells doctors what to look for. ADEM is treatable, so if someone has this complication, it's important to detect it.
Alex3917 6y ago
> i.e. are people getting brain damage from COVID itself or as a result of uncontrolled fever? Covid kills lung and blood vessel cells by depleting their ACE2 receptors. So if you develop a fever as one of your Covid symptoms, whatever inflammation is caused by that may well be only a small fraction of the total inflammation caused by the disease.

fovc 6y ago

Much more detail and link to original paper through here: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-delirium-rare-brain-inflammation-linked.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-delirium-rare-brain-i...

mirimir 6y ago
Thanks. That ought to be TFA's URL. Paper: https://sci-hub.st/http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/brain/awaa240 https://sci-hub.st/http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/brain/awaa240
dang 6y ago
Ok, we've changed to that from https://montrealgazette.com/news/world/scientists-warn-of-potential-wave-of-covid-linked-brain-damage/wcm/73937fe3-1530-42f6-a854-6a393ec73c1a/ https://montrealgazette.com/news/world/scientists-warn-of-po.... Thanks!
graeme 6y ago
Thanks! (I did the original submission)

ghastmaster 6y ago

> Given that the disease has only been around for a matter of months, we might not yet know what long-term damage COVID-19 can cause Statements like this, are quite disingenuous, especially when taken out of context. Using qualifiers like "Might" and "can" in the same sentence is par for the course for the propaganda I have seen over the past few months. Headlines and reports are repleat with what ifs and every sci-fi pathogen trope you can read. Coronaviruses are not new to science. Pick any pathogen and take the rare cases of odd symptoms and spread it on every network. See how the public reacts. Give me science! Few if any of our politicians are going on stage talking up the need for randomized studies. They scare us and we panic.

Darkphibre 6y ago
There is a LOT of anecdotal evidence COVID affects the neural system (it's even been found there during autopsies). The challenge for scientists is they need to raise the concerns during emergencies before the final 99.999% confidence 3-year double-blind studies are completed. So they couch their terms in language that allows for understanding the lack of absolutes.
- ghastmaster 6y ago
  As an example, one of the patients had a fever for 14 days and began doing odd things. This is not new or unique to covid. Long fever alone causes a whole host of problems. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944485/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944485/ > Neurological and cognitive dysfunction may occur acutely after an episode of hyperthermia and may lead to chronic damage, reported to occur in 50 % of survivors discharged from an ICU after heatstroke [87]. The pathophysiological mechanisms are presumed to be similar to those described above, but, in addition, the integrity of the BBB is disrupted allowing translocation of systemic toxins to enter the cerebral circulation. If neurological symptoms fail to improve after the acute episode, cerebellar dysfunction predominates. This is thought to be a result of the sensitivity of the Purkinje cells to thermal damage.
  - autoexec 6y ago

0x8BADF00D 6y ago

This is a much more sensationalist piece than it ought to be. When a patient has a stroke, they will obviously develop brain damage. That is the definition of a stroke - a cerebrovascular accident. The title should be "brain injury causes brain damage".

GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
How is it sensational? The linked medical paper [see other parent comment] shows a link between COVID and brain inflammation, stroke, etc.
- spaced-out 6y ago
  Comments like the one you responded to are what some people do to cope with all this.
- 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
  There is a link between living a sedentary lifestyle and developing cardiovascular issues like stroke and heart attack. But that’s ok. Continue hiding in your room like the government tells you to.
  - GaryNumanVevo 6y ago
    There's no place for comments like this on HN.
    - 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
      If my comment will make someone think and question narratives, it is worth it. Even if it is getting downvoted heavily or flagged. There is a reason why the Socratic method works.
Godel_unicode 6y ago
That proposed title subtly promotes the "covid isn't that bad" theory by hiding some of its worse outcomes. I can't do anything about the proximal cause, I can however protect against the distal.

jurschreuder 6y ago

Isn't this just the man on the deserted island losing his grip, talking to a volleyball and having delirium / psychotic symptoms? A symptom of lockdown, side effect of the preventive treatment. Wikipedia: Solitary confinement has received severe criticism for having detrimental psychological effects[2] and, to some and in some cases, constituting torture.[3] According to a 2017 review study, "a robust scientific literature has established the negative psychological effects of solitary confinement", leading to "an emerging consensus among correctional as well as professional, mental health, legal, and human rights organizations to drastically limit the use of solitary confinement."[4] "Psychological effects can include anxiety, depression, anger, cognitive disturbances, perceptual distortions, obsessive thoughts, paranoia, and psychosis."[21]

throwanem 6y ago
You don't get encephalitis from being lonely.
- Fjolsvith 6y ago
  "Dr. Raji said, "Gray matter volume is a key marker of brain health. Larger gray matter volume means a healthier brain. Shrinking volume is seen in Alzheimer's disease. Gray matter includes neurons that function in cognition and higher order cognitive processes. The areas of the brain that benefited from an active lifestyle are the ones that consume the most energy and are very sensitive to damage." [1] But you can experience bad brain health from inactivity. 1. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201212/the-brain-drain-inactivity https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201...

loudlambda 6y ago

There's going to be a wave of mask related brain damage from people not getting enough oxygen.

bE9a3S5So8igd3 6y ago

Not counter-narrative. Not-flagged

onetimemanytime 6y ago

In other words, try not to catch this thing before vaccines or treatments are here. Not one infected person has praised it, AFAIK. Strokes, heart attacks, thrombosis, kidney failure, lung problems (possibly for life,) nervous system issues, brain damage...what else is left?

zwily 6y ago
Why would an infected person ever praise a virus?

dstola 6y ago

> a detailed account of neurological symptoms of 43 people The sample size is extremely small, and there is already selection bias because of pre-screening for neurological symptoms > who had either confirmed or suspected Covid-19 really, they couldn't test the 43 people for covid that they were doing a study on?