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@antirez - Thank you for Redis! It's been a joy to use across so many projects. > However I never wanted to be a software maintainer. And nothing say that you

by koolba 6y ago

@antirez - Thank you for Redis! It's been a joy to use across so many projects. > However I never wanted to be a software maintainer. And nothing say that you have to be. There's this perverted view that anytime someone creates a popular FOSS project, they need to dedicate every waking minute to maintaining it. That's neither economically feasible nor psychologically reasonable. > Redis was the most stressful thing I did in my career, and probably also the most important. I don’t like much what the underground programming world became in recent years, but even if it was not an easy journey, I had the privilege to work and interact with many great individuals. What is "underground programming world"?

conjectures 6y ago
> What is "underground programming world"? If you have to ask... ;)
- brodouevencode 6y ago
  We're all violating the first and second rules of "underground programming world"
  - Bjartr 6y ago
    I'd expect the underground programming world to index from zero.
    - kungtotte 6y ago
      The first rule would have index 0...
      - m0xte 6y ago
        This is underground programming. Perhaps it's 1?
        fidelramos 6y ago
        I'd make it -1, that way regular programmers wouldn't know about it.
        bigiain 6y ago
        "Should array indices start at 0 or 1? My compromise of 0.5 was rejected without, I thought, proper consideration." — Stan Kelly-Bootle.
      - pokot0 6y ago
        I expect the third to be 10
      - Bjartr 6y ago
        I'd say that's the zeroth rule.
- r_police 6y ago
  Sorry to be that guy but, why are you posting comments that lead to topic derailing that add nothing to the discussion?
  - nuclearnice1 6y ago
    Agree. I’d like to thank conjectures, brodouevencode, Bjartr, kungtotte, m0xte, fidelramos, chii and pokot0 for their contributions, but gently suggest none of the jokes were really that funny. Said well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7609289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7609289
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      Since we have a norm that those who post unfunny jokes shouldn't complain they are downvoted, we should also have a norm that those who don't like jokes should just downvote without comment. Of course, I'm violating the obvious meta-norm...
      - nuclearnice1 6y ago
        We actually have the opposite norm. HN commenters are encouraged to post feedback in the threads about what's good and bad for HN comments. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7605973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7605973
        jessaustin 6y ago
        That's fine, and there are probably some would-be HN comedians who haven't heard the news about this yet, but meta-discussion is really boring. This is the last thing I'll post in this thread, and I won't be surprised if it gets downvoted to oblivion.
chii 6y ago
> "underground programming world" it's where you program in a basement.
cies 6y ago
I was also intrigued by that sentence. I expect it means (open source) programming that happens outside of of big corps. But I'm unsure.
- antirez 6y ago
  Yep it's the open source, and in general the "spontaneous" development world, that happens without big money, just for hacking. This "place" once was kinda free and not observed much. Now you can't say anything, if you don't respect a good practice (LOL) people yell at you on Twitter. Even saying that commenting is a good idea is a problem. Not cool.
  - koolba 6y ago
    > Yep it's the open source, and in general the "spontaneous" development world, that happens without big money, just for hacking. This "place" once was kinda free and not observed much. Thanks for explaining. > Now you can't say anything, if you don't respect a good practice (LOL) people yell at you on Twitter. Even saying that commenting is a good idea is a problem. Not cool. Just because they're loud does not mean they're correct or that they're the majority. I can understand not wanting to deal with any of it though. The larger than life you become in your space, they more your words, actions, and non-actions get parsed and twisted for political intent. It's either step away entirely or hide behind the mask of a pseudonymous alt.
    - HumblyTossed 6y ago
      > Just because they're loud does not mean they're correct or that they're majority. They're not. They're the mediocre developers with nothing substantive to contribute. Think of your developer heroes. Almost none of them will ever engage in such nonsense. They're too busy building wonderful things to bother with petty nonsense that gets nothing done.
  - pbowyer 6y ago
    > Even saying that commenting is a good idea is a problem. I'm glad I'm not alone experiencing this. One of the core open source projects I use has taken a no comments stance because "the code speaks for itself". It does if you're a core contributor, but if you dive in less frequently it takes a while to grok what's going on and re-build the mental model. Comments would reduce that. Thanks for all you've done Salvatore, and for your blogging. Your enthusiasm puts the fun back into my programming!
amelius 6y ago
> What is "underground programming world"? The programming world that nobody else sees. Everybody uses shiny FOSS tools, and some even make big $ using them, but nobody wonders where they come from and how much pain went into building them.
rconti 6y ago
There's absolutely nothing wrong with him not wanting to be a software maintainer. I don't want to be either, and I'm not even a programmer. But there is DEFINITELY something wrong with the fact that, seemingly, NOBODY wants to be a software maintainer.
- tdfx 6y ago
  > NOBODY wants to be a software maintainer. I think everybody wants it on their resume, but the practical day to day work tends to be more filtering poorly written GitHub issues than writing any interesting code. For a job that doesn't pay much (often at all), that's not something I would want to spend my time doing.
- ilaksh 6y ago
  The problem is that people don't recognize the efforts of the ones who do it. Antirez did it for years. Do people expect someone to have the same very high-profile job with constant overtime and the same project for their entire lives? His efforts to stay on that project were heroic. There are lots of other people who want to maintain it. Let them, and if they screw it up that is not his fault. He finished his project. Give him a break.

by koolba 6y ago

conjectures 6y ago

> What is "underground programming world"? If you have to ask... ;)

brodouevencode 6y ago
We're all violating the first and second rules of "underground programming world"
- Bjartr 6y ago
  I'd expect the underground programming world to index from zero.
  - kungtotte 6y ago
    The first rule would have index 0...
    - m0xte 6y ago
      This is underground programming. Perhaps it's 1?
      - fidelramos 6y ago
        I'd make it -1, that way regular programmers wouldn't know about it.
        bigiain 6y ago
        "Should array indices start at 0 or 1? My compromise of 0.5 was rejected without, I thought, proper consideration." — Stan Kelly-Bootle.
    - pokot0 6y ago
      I expect the third to be 10
    - Bjartr 6y ago
      I'd say that's the zeroth rule.
r_police 6y ago
Sorry to be that guy but, why are you posting comments that lead to topic derailing that add nothing to the discussion?
- nuclearnice1 6y ago
  Agree. I’d like to thank conjectures, brodouevencode, Bjartr, kungtotte, m0xte, fidelramos, chii and pokot0 for their contributions, but gently suggest none of the jokes were really that funny. Said well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7609289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7609289
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    Since we have a norm that those who post unfunny jokes shouldn't complain they are downvoted, we should also have a norm that those who don't like jokes should just downvote without comment. Of course, I'm violating the obvious meta-norm...
    - nuclearnice1 6y ago
      We actually have the opposite norm. HN commenters are encouraged to post feedback in the threads about what's good and bad for HN comments. See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7605973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7605973
      - jessaustin 6y ago
        That's fine, and there are probably some would-be HN comedians who haven't heard the news about this yet, but meta-discussion is really boring. This is the last thing I'll post in this thread, and I won't be surprised if it gets downvoted to oblivion.

chii 6y ago

> "underground programming world" it's where you program in a basement.

cies 6y ago

I was also intrigued by that sentence. I expect it means (open source) programming that happens outside of of big corps. But I'm unsure.

antirez 6y ago
Yep it's the open source, and in general the "spontaneous" development world, that happens without big money, just for hacking. This "place" once was kinda free and not observed much. Now you can't say anything, if you don't respect a good practice (LOL) people yell at you on Twitter. Even saying that commenting is a good idea is a problem. Not cool.
- koolba 6y ago
  > Yep it's the open source, and in general the "spontaneous" development world, that happens without big money, just for hacking. This "place" once was kinda free and not observed much. Thanks for explaining. > Now you can't say anything, if you don't respect a good practice (LOL) people yell at you on Twitter. Even saying that commenting is a good idea is a problem. Not cool. Just because they're loud does not mean they're correct or that they're the majority. I can understand not wanting to deal with any of it though. The larger than life you become in your space, they more your words, actions, and non-actions get parsed and twisted for political intent. It's either step away entirely or hide behind the mask of a pseudonymous alt.
  - HumblyTossed 6y ago
    > Just because they're loud does not mean they're correct or that they're majority. They're not. They're the mediocre developers with nothing substantive to contribute. Think of your developer heroes. Almost none of them will ever engage in such nonsense. They're too busy building wonderful things to bother with petty nonsense that gets nothing done.
- pbowyer 6y ago
  > Even saying that commenting is a good idea is a problem. I'm glad I'm not alone experiencing this. One of the core open source projects I use has taken a no comments stance because "the code speaks for itself". It does if you're a core contributor, but if you dive in less frequently it takes a while to grok what's going on and re-build the mental model. Comments would reduce that. Thanks for all you've done Salvatore, and for your blogging. Your enthusiasm puts the fun back into my programming!

amelius 6y ago

> What is "underground programming world"? The programming world that nobody else sees. Everybody uses shiny FOSS tools, and some even make big $ using them, but nobody wonders where they come from and how much pain went into building them.

rconti 6y ago

There's absolutely nothing wrong with him not wanting to be a software maintainer. I don't want to be either, and I'm not even a programmer. But there is DEFINITELY something wrong with the fact that, seemingly, NOBODY wants to be a software maintainer.

tdfx 6y ago
> NOBODY wants to be a software maintainer. I think everybody wants it on their resume, but the practical day to day work tends to be more filtering poorly written GitHub issues than writing any interesting code. For a job that doesn't pay much (often at all), that's not something I would want to spend my time doing.
ilaksh 6y ago
The problem is that people don't recognize the efforts of the ones who do it. Antirez did it for years. Do people expect someone to have the same very high-profile job with constant overtime and the same project for their entire lives? His efforts to stay on that project were heroic. There are lots of other people who want to maintain it. Let them, and if they screw it up that is not his fault. He finished his project. Give him a break.