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There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff
- fsflover 6y agoGreat news. As the author says, please support the right to repair movement in Europe if you care about repairability: https://repair.eu/ https://repair.eu/, https://repair.eu/smartphones/ https://repair.eu/smartphones/.
- Priem19 6y agoFantastic. Gone with planned obsolescence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
- fsflover 6y agoI hope it will finally force Apple to become more climate-friendly. Their scores in phone repairability are disappointigly low: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability.
- input_sh 6y agoAs far as Apple is concerned, I believe that AirPods are a true tragedy[0]. If you try to recycle them, someone will have to separate the glued-in lithium-ion battery from the plastic. If you try to throw them away, you might start a fire in a garbage compactor facility. If they end up in a landfill, they'll be in earth's crust for thousands of years. That's before getting into how fast they become obsolete on their own because the battery loses charge (~18 months) and how easy it is to lose them. [0] Excellent article, in which CEO of iFixit was asked for a comment and simply called them "evil": https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/neaz3d/airpods-are-a-tragedy https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/neaz3d/airpods-are-a-trag...
- dannyw 6y agoIt's also totally possible to build the Airpods in a way that is battery replaceable: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Buds+Teardown/120693 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Buds+Teardown...
- stinos 6y agoIt's sad when technological advances go hand in hand with disadvantages for, basically, the planet. But it's especially so when it's (to some extent) avaoidable and definitely so when it gets executed by companies who have plenty of resources to not do it, yet don't care at all, and keep on producing things like this under the (mis)nomer of 'building a better future'. Despite knowing well enough what the effects are, and because they know it will be bought by the masses anyway. Don't get me wrong: I'm well aware the problem is not exactly easy to solve, but if your answer is to just make it worse with every product release while you could at least attempt to make it better instead, then perhaps this CEO is indeed using the correct term for your (and others') behaviour.
- princekolt 6y agoEvery android phone in that page has a score lower or equal to all the iPhones. This has to be a joke, right? Example: Galaxy S20 Ultra [3/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S20+Ultra+Teardown/131607 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S20+Ultra+Tea... iPhone 11 Pro Max [6/10]: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+11+Pro+Max+Teardown/126000 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+11+Pro+Max+Teardown/1... But sure, lets keep bashing Apple because that gives us all the internet kudos, am I right?
- saiya-jin 6y agoThat's a fine example of whataboutism. Look, others are doing the same bad thing, what's your problem?
- fsflover 6y agoAlthough you are right and this is a problem, android does not in general claim to be climate-friendly, while Apple does.
- buzzerbetrayed 6y agoWell according to the list you posted, they seem to be the most climate friendly mass smart phone producer on the planet. Perhaps they deserve the title.
- fsflover 6y ago
- mrtksn 6y agoApple is surprisingly repearable and is a major factor driving device prices in the poorer countries. There are shops everywhere that would fix your iPhone at very reasonable prices. People expect to use the device for 3-5 five years since they pay multiple salaries to buy it in first place and pay it through the years. If that’s not environmentally friendly, I don’t know what it is.
- onli 6y agoActually easily repairable phones like the Fairphone 3 or the Shift 6M. Or an older LG G3/G5.
- rasz 6y agoIts te other way around. Apple products have the most third party repair support directly because they are so expensive. It makes more sense to repair $600 phone than $150 one.
- mrtksn 6y agoIt also makes sense to use 600$ device that continues to get support for 5 years. Therefore , less waste overall. Cheap phones don’t produce less waste.
- yangminded 6y agoI don't think you understand how much easier it is to repair an iPhone compared to any other phone on the market (apart of niche products like the Fairphone which does a great job!). If you open an iPhone, you will see a very well ordered and packaged arrangement of components. Most Android phones are a hot mess compared with it. If you need a component for an iPhone, you can get it easily. What I'm saying is not that electronics should not become more climate-friendly. What I'm saying is that the focus on Apple is wrong. The business is the problem and companies like Samsung, Motorola, etc. are putting much worse devices on the market. BTW: iPhones regularly get software updates for around 5 years. How's that for extending the lifetime of devices? Android phones are lucky to get significant software updates for more than one year.
- fsflover 6y ago> BTW: iPhones regularly get software updates for around 5 years. How's that for extending the lifetime of devices? Android phones are lucky to get significant software updates for more than one year. After Android devices stop getting updates, you can continue with alternative OS or you can use F-Droid basically forever. All your apps will have updates. When Apple devices stop being supported, they turn into bricks.
- asutekku 6y agoWhen apple device stops being supported, it’s just not getting any more updates. It’s not going to get bricked, you can keep using the phone until foreseeable future. Also, the general consumer does not care if you can flash a rom from xda. They care about the official updates.
- fsflover 6y ago> When apple device stops being supported, it’s just not getting any more updates If effectively means it is absolutely unsafe to use anymore. Security bugs are found in browsers all the time. >Also, the general consumer does not care if you can flash a rom from xda. They care about the official updates. At least there is an option. Also this is exactly why I mentioned F-Droid, which is just an app.
- bserge 6y agoWow, this is some great news! Hopefully this trend of electronics that are nigh impossible to repair will be gone next decade.
- snops 6y agoIf anyone wishes to read it or similar European standards, each nation is required to sell it at a price proportional to the average wage, and hence the Estonian standards body is selling it[1] for €14, instead of the £204 the British standards institute wants. [1] https://www.evs.ee/en/evs-en-45554-2020 https://www.evs.ee/en/evs-en-45554-2020
- martimarkov 6y agoI know this is off topic but... As an European this is the first time I learn you need to pay to read EU standards. Anyone has any explanation why you need to pay for access to standards?
- apexalpha 6y agoLet's hope this catches on just like the energy labels did. After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. Many other countries follow EU regulations directly or indirectly so let's hope for some easily repairable products in the future!
- switch007 6y ago> After the EU forced manufacturers to improve energy use in their devices it soon improved situations for everyone on this planet. I don't know (talking as fairly pro-EU kind of person). I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C and vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt. But the EU are only partly to blame. Companies are relentless in their pursuit of cutting production costs. Going "green" just excused their greed for a while. And these newer machines feature more plastic parts, are harder to repair and generally considered disposable (e.g. I'm happy that a dishwasher/washing machine/fridge lasts 5 years). How's that good for the planet?
- Barrin92 6y agoI think this should largely be viewed as a temporary inconvencience. These limitations also give huge incentive to manufacturers to come up with new innovations that produce better performance with environmental and energy constraints in mind. I always feel the alternative is the web, where everything gets twice as large every few years. if washing machines were as free-wheeling as webapps I can only assume one would fill the entire garage
- nolok 6y ago> I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C I will be honest with you this one I just don't understand. My washing machine is A+ in EU norms and it heats properly. Maybe you bought a not so good model ? If anything those norms should be re-evaluated with new tougher levels now, you have to go out of your way to buy something that's not at least A (which is good and it means it worked, but also that it's time to ask for more). > vacuum cleaners that actually picked up dirt Again, if you buy a Dyson that follows EU norms it still works great. But if at the same time as those norms arrived you also switched from being main brand product to cheaper off brands, then you're confusing the two. It's easy to find a vacuum cleaner that works great, but they're not at the same price as most models, because the market aligned with the cheap ones that people actually buy. Yes, LIDL and similar often have special sales on vacuum cleaner, yes they're frankly cheap, and no, they're not as good as "the vacuum cleaners of old". They're barely adequate, which is fine for most customers and allow a cheap price, that's why they sell this. > And these newer machines feature more plastic parts, are harder to repair and generally considered disposable (e.g. I'm happy that a dishwasher/washing machine/fridge lasts 5 years). How's that good for the planet? That is quite literally the point of the anti waste regulation (the last one and the future one), and of the repair law being discussed here.
- Vinnl 6y agoI have a Fairphone [1], for which repairability was a major focus (the latest two models are the first smartphones to get a perfect 10 from iFixit, IIRC). At some point, it started having some issues. Likewise, a friend of mine who had one wanted a new phone as well. By combining parts from mine and his phone, I now have a properly working phone again with very little effort. This is so important. (That said, the reason I started having issues in the first place was because some connections didn't fit as tightly anymore. This is supposedly better with the latest model, whose screen you can no longer replace without tools, but needs a regular Philips screwdriver that actually comes with the phone. Less gimmicky on parties, but should be an improvement.) [1] https://www.fairphone.com/ https://www.fairphone.com/
- mobilemidget 6y agoyou left out some important information, and leaving me in thoughts.. "I now have a properly working phone again" But what about your friend? What did he have to do to call you again, or you guys simply stopped calling each other? ;)
- Vinnl 6y agoHe got a new phone :) So instead of us both having to get a new phone, just one sufficed.
- moksly 6y agoThis is anecdotal, but everyone in my circle of friends who bought a fairphone2 (2015) has replaced it. Meanwhile my mom is still using my old iPhone 5s (2013). And my wife uses her iPhone SE(2016). Hell the fact that they have released one in 2013, 2015 and 2019, kind of goes against their message doesn’t it?
- rowanG077 6y agoThat doesn't surprise me. The crowd of people who are aware of the fairphone are most likely techies. And I would wager techies are much more likely to replace a Phone then the Generic Apple user.
- _ph_ 6y agoWhenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundreds of years. A time traveller could buy a current Rolex and have it serviced in 1950, possibly even in 1850. The watchmakers of those times wouldn't have access to the right spare parts - those are surprisingly high-tech, but basic service would be possible. And that is why I cannot stand the current state of repairs in the electronic world. I am especially looking at Apple in this respect, because they have demonstrated a surprising skill at making things repairable, which they want to be serviceable. Just look at the brilliant mount for the USB ports in the new Air. While end-user serviceability might not be desirable for something highly-integrated, the benchmark really should be whether someone trained like a watch-maker has the ability to service a device. Which would be great for the local economy wherever in the world a customer is, because traditionally most towns would have at least one watchmaker, a well paid professional who would keep the money local vs. creating more electronic waste and shipping a new device around the world.
- ThePhysicist 6y agoApple seems to be one of the worst offenders in terms of repairability of their devices. You can watch e.g. Louis Rossmann's videos on Youtube, he goes into great detail on how Apple tries to make it impossible for anyone except themselves to service their laptops, even going as far as to restrict market suppliers from selling specific microchips (that were not invented by Apple) to anyone but Apple. I imagine this will only become worse as they switch to their own CPUs in the near future. I expect that Macs will become more like iPhones in that Apple will restrict more and more which software you can easily run on them and how you can extend the devices. Other manufacturers like Dell or Lenovo do a much better job in terms of repairability IMHO: They build their machines with mostly standard components that can be easily replaced and make them easy to open and service. Compare that to recent Apple devices: If you want more RAM or storage in your device they charge you 5-10 times the market price. They also make sure you will never be able to upgrade those things yourself by soldering them to the mainboard.
- mahesh_rm 6y agoThis looks clearly like a laudable effort and positive trend, but I can't avoid to foresee paradoxical scenarios along the lines of "I needed to replace my 3 years old perfectly functional fridge with repairability class F with a new one with repairability class D++"
- tuukkah 6y agoWhat is the paradox here? The standard won't force replacements.
- mahesh_rm 6y agoThe paradox is "A standard aimed at preventing replacement will be used to catalyze replacements". Standards never enforce replacements. Regulations and Fashions enforce replacements on the basis of standards.
- tuukkah 6y agoCan you give an example of what such a regulation could look like and of standards as a significant driver of fashion?
- mahesh_rm 6y ago"Reduced" property taxes on low environmental impact residential units. Which in fact turns into increased property taxes on "environmentally inefficient" residential units. Which turns into higher fiscal pressure for people that cannot afford to refurbish their homes. Which turns into them selling their properties (sometimes built by their great grandfathers) to rich turists that are able to afford the required refurbishments.
- pgt 6y agoWould be cool to have a standard for measuring the difficulty of repairing software.
- jnxx 6y agoRepairable device of decent quality can also yield much better second-hand prices, which can even drive up the value of the original product. Thinkpad laptops are a good example.
- squarefoot 6y agoSpeaking of phones, they often are purposely rendered obsolete by preventing them to install OS upgrades or migrating them to other more open OSes long before they break for other reasons. While this is a laudable initiative, sadly it won't be much effective against phones planned obsolescence. Opening hardware specs would be a true giant step against this. Not holding my breath though.
- 488643689 6y agoTrue. I deeply regret not spending idk 70€ more getting an iPhone SE instead of the Moto G5 Plus. Last security update was January 2019, as I got about 2 of 3 years of "support". Somehow I was assuming there was going to be an official lineageOS build. Guess what... I am now in the situation where I can't bring myself to buy Android again, but don't really have the 500 bucks for the new SE. Honestly, new techy features became the least important factor for decision making for me. Support/security > connectivity > battery > repairability > X.
- 627467 6y agoI've found that the best solution is: get (used) previous gen high-end (and popular) that has unlocked bootloader. Being popular means I'll find plenty of parts for repair and likely have options for firmware installs. I got myself a S8 when S10 was about to come out. Fraction of the price and I can keep updating it beyond Samsung efforts. I still own a Nexus5 5 which seems to be the target of most non-android OS development effort despite its age. (Another aspect I try to consider is repairability, which phones such as S8 hardly make it easy which it's fragile curve OLED display) We're past peak smartphones now, I see no need to run after the latest cpu increase or extra camera so that it takes bokeh better. But that's me.
- bzb3 6y agoAs long as having a certain score is not mandatory... I like my iPhones, and I couldn't care less about their repairability. If they stop working and I'm out of warranty I just buy a new one.
- dieortin 6y agoiPhones’ repairability is fine, but your attitude of not caring about the environment at all isn’t.
- zubspace 6y agoI had a Fairphone 1 once. It fell on the floor and the display cracked. I was able to order a replacement screen and replace the cracked screen in about 2 hours thanks to iFixit [1]. And I have no idea of electronics whatsoever! This is remarkable but unfortunately not sustainable. The manufacturer needs to enable repairs, provide howto's and he needs to guarantee, that you can buy those replacement parts. At some point after Fairphone 2 was released, which was priced a lot higher, I was unable to download newer android versions even though that was promised. It was just too complex for them provide an update. That's the sad truth: Support for old hardware diverts manpower from more lucrative things in the business: Creating and selling new phones. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Fairphone_1 https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Fairphone_1