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The Nova Scotia shooter case has hallmarks of an undercover operation?
- redis_mlc 6y agoIn case HN readers aren't aware of it, I would say most of the reported "tragedies" that you read about involving adults have prior LEO relationships, or in the case of fires, firemen. If you read a national newspaper for long enough, they keep popping up. Usually it's to create cases that then need solving. This case is odd because the person of interest appears to be a pro of some kind, and they normally have better things to do, and without press.
- ta17711771 6y agoIf you don't know modern examples of possible false flags/intelligence operations gone awry yet, it's time to become familiar. Lots of lines being crossed the last few decades.
- nautilus12 6y agoWhat would be the possible reason for conducting this particular false flag (assuming that's what it was)
- trevyn 6y agoStates derive part of their legitimacy from offering protection against harm. Anything that appears as a threat of harm, a state derives existential benefit from. "State security" provides security to the existence of the state.
- yters 6y agothat's why most criminals are actually state agents also explains why prisons are so cushy and recidivism so high
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y agoRelevant (and highly recommended): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
- redis_mlc 6y agoThis case is really odd, but the GP is generally correct, even if using slightly incorrect terminology.
- pmorici 6y agoOne result was it gave a pretense for the prime minister to issue the equivalent of an executive order banning 1500 types of rife which were previously legal and giving anyone that owns one a 2 year grace period to dispose of it. This was done without going through the legislative process.
- ta17711771 6y agoPlease link to a source?
- pmorici 6y agohttps://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/justin-trudeau-announces-federal-ban-on-military-grade-assault-weapons-in-canada-full-transcript/ https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/justin-trudeau-announces...
- ta17711771 6y agoCheers.
- keeganpoppen 6y agowhat are some examples that are thought to be in this category?
- 3131s 6y ago9/11, at least depending on your definition of "false flag". The Bush administration had foreknowledge of the attacks and actively suppressed attempts to stop them. George W. Bush was close personal friends with one of the key architects of 9/11 and afterwards great measures were taken to cover up this person's involvement (the so-called "28 pages"). A lot of other people would cite the Gulf of Tonkin as an example too, but that's something I know less about so I'll leave it to someone else.
- 3131s 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan_Al_Saud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan_Al_Saud
- catalogia 6y ago> A lot of other people would cite the Gulf of Tonkin as an example too, but that's something I know less about so I'll leave it to someone else. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was explained to the American public at the time as pair of attacks on two separate nights against the US Navy by the North Vietnamese. This was used as the casus belli for the Vietnam War; in response to the two attacks congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution which authorized LBJ to start a war (without formally declaring a war...) The first attack probably did happen, however in 2003 Robert McNamara (who had been the US Secretary of Defense at the time of the incident) admitted the second attack never happened. Straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODxnUrFX6k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODxnUrFX6k
- dragonwriter 6y ago> This was used as the casus belli for the Vietnam War No, it was used as the excuse for yet another escalation of the Vietnam War, which the US had been overtly been involved in since immediately after the French gave up in 1954, and had significantly escalated it's involvement in (again, overtly) throughout the Kennedy Administration.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- yters 6y agohe withdrew a huge amount of money, and the press cant prove the secret service didnt pay him i guess secret service are guilty till proven innocent...
- function_seven 6y agoHe withdrew a huge amount of money, in a manner that is only used by CIs and agents. From the article: > A Mountie familiar with the techniques used by the force in undercover operations, but not with the details of the investigation into the shooting, says Wortman could not have collected his own money from Brink’s as a private citizen. and > “When you come into my branch and you want a ton of cash, then I say, you gotta give us a couple of days. We put in our Brink’s order, I order the money through Brink’s, then when the money arrives, you come back into the branch, I bring you into a back room and I count the money out for you,” the banking expert said. “Sending someone to Brink’s to get the money? I’ve never heard of that before. The reason is, if I’m the banker, and you’ve deposited your savings in my bank branch, I’m responsible for making sure the money goes to the right person. If you want this money, I’m going to verify your identity and document that. I can’t do that if I’m transferring the money to Brink’s.” It's solid evidence that this guy is connected to the RCMP in some manner.
- yters 6y agoan anecdote from one mountie without any reference to official procedures is solid evidence?
- mjfl 6y agowhy would this man withdraw money with the expectation that he was going to suicide in a few days?
- bawolff 6y agoI suppose to give it to someone else. Giving away possesions is a common warning sign for suicide from what i understand.
- Thorrez 6y agoI don't know much about the case. Did he plan to do it that specific day? Maybe he had general plans, but didn't know the month or year he would carry them out until the moment he snapped.
- DanBC 6y agoPeople who are suicidal can often behave in ways that appear paradoxical to others. This includes things like booking holidays, getting new jobs, buying tools and equipment for a DIY project, etc.
- oh_sigh 6y agoHe was killed by the police, and that may not have been part of his plan.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y agoI learned more about Canadian banking system than I expected. The banking for CIs and agents was especially fascinating. Makes me wonder how the system works in US. I assume Canada copied US approach. Does anyone here have an insight into Brink equovalent in US?
- mcpherrinm 6y agoBrinks is an American company.
- mike_d 6y ago> Does anyone here have an insight into Brink equovalent in US Brinks is an armored car company. He drove into a lot used to load and unload armored cars making deliveries to banks and filling ATMs, and walked out with a literal duffel bag full of cash. For security reasons, private citizens are not allowed to do that. Even bank employees can't do that. The whole point of armored cars is they bring the money to you. Everything about this screams undercover operation.
- sushshshsh 6y agoExcellent, excellent journalism. My takeaways: 1) The Canadian government has more holes in it than swiss cheese. The level of detail leaked to the public in this one article makes a mockery of the Canadian government's attempts to keep things confidential. 2) The gunman really wanted to be a cop and seems to have possibly obtained the ability to do cop-like things by providing information about criminal organizations in canada (Hells Angels) 3) The gunman appears to have been wired $400,000 by the Mounties in relation to this work. 4) At some point he lost his mind and killed a bunch of people for some reason, and the Mounties are saying that they had nothing to do with this guy, despite the evidence that he was paid $400,000 on surveillance camera by a source that can likely only be the Mounties.
- lambdasquirrel 6y agoWould it be better to have it in other countries where the government has tight control over the press and social media though?
- bawolff 6y agoFor 1) while the narrative is compelling, it doesn't seem like that much was leaked. Just that he managed to withdraw a lot of money in an unusual fashion. The rest is conjecture. Compelling conjecture but still conjecture (I'm assuming that the way paying CIs works is not a secret, they just needed someone to quote to back it up)
- catalogia 6y agoI'm curious where all that cash ended up. Did they find it? The preceding article on this matter says > It is not clear what happened to the money from the moment the killer took it out of the Brink’s location to the time he was shot by RCMP officers during an attempted arrest at a gas station in Enfield, N.S., on April 19. The lawyer for family members of the killer’s victims said Wednesday that the estate filing at probate court lists a large sum of cash, which he believes was recovered by the RCMP. “I assume the public trustee has it,” said Robert Pineo, who is suing the estate.
- Mumps 6y agoout of curiosity, why do you change the value from $475,000 to $400,000?
- loraa 6y agoFalse flag gone bad. Gun bans followed.
- AlexCoventry 6y agoThis seems pretty thin... Isn't Brinks a private security company? Isn't it possible that someone else apart from Canadian law-enforcement decided it would be a good way to transfer a large amount of cash?
- mike_d 6y agoThink of an armored car depot like an Amazon warehouse. You can't just pop in and pick up a bottle of hand soap, no matter how big of a customer you are. Usually, the only non-employees who are allowed to enter are law enforcement.
- Scoundreller 6y agoHehe, reminds me of a story in Toronto. Before Amazon had free return shipping, someone ordered something super heavy and wanted to return it. It would have cost a ton of money to ship it back. Amazon repeatedly said he couldn’t drop it off himself. So he printed off a Tracking Sheet for a fictitious “ABC Couriers”, put it on a clipboard and drove it over.
- boomboomsubban 6y agoI think if anyone else sent him large amounts of money they would immediately be under arrest (at least brought in for questioning) and there would be a big story in the news.
- JoeSmithson 6y agoThe most obvious explanation seems to be that no-one sent him the money - it was his own savings. From what I can tell, there is no actual evidence linking this to RCMP at the moment, except an anonymous source's opinion. I'm with OP that this is very thin. Maybe they have more that they can't publish, so are confident to go out on a limb, but based on just this article I'm unconvinced.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
- throwaway098789 6y agoThis is typical Canadian propaganda. Its meant to distract from scrutiny of the RCMP given the current climate. Canada is well managed from the top.
- smabie 6y agoCouldn't it have a non-Canadian operation? CIA, for example? It seems fishy, and it sounds like maybe a government is involved, by why must it be the Canadians?
- qeternity 6y agoThis seems nearly as likely, although given that most intelligence ops in a country are operated by said country, I think CA still has to be #1 suspect with the US as a close #2
- bawolff 6y agoI guess the question that comes to mind is, what would be the motive? That is if you are implying this was an attack by a foreign government (and not that he was a foreign spy who just coincidentally went nuts). I suppose if it was spies there could be a lot non obvious going on behind the scenes. At face value though i cant see who would benefit from this.
- jacobush 6y agoI think you would have to be shades of nuts to take such a job to begin with.
- sneak 6y agoFollowing this attack, several common and popular models of rifles were banned nationwide in Canada.
- bawolff 6y agoTrue, but i have trouble seeing that as something worthy of international espionage
- basicplus2 6y agoRCMP - Royal Canadian Mounted Police
- lostlogin 6y agoThank you.
- PhantomGremlin 6y agoMore info about the shooter and the shootings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nova_Scotia_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nova_Scotia_attacks
- shigawire 6y agoI checked this post when it was first submitted and the only comments were arguing this article is proof of a false flag. Now they are near the bottom but I wonder if the several like-minded comments immediately after submission were coordinated or a coincidence? This level of conjecture matches the tone of the article though, so it feels thematically appropriate.
- natvod 6y agoQuoting from https://old.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/hccco0/the_nova_scotia_shooter_case_has_hallmarks_of_an/ https://old.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/hccco0/the_nova_sco... > My family uses Brinks all the time to make large deposits and withdrawals for business purposes. While technically true individuals cannot collect from money from Brinks, you can on behalf of a business (the shooter owned a few).
- jowsie 6y agoWorth noting there's several people, a few even claiming to have worked for Brinks, saying he is mistaken in the further comments.
- hnanon1 6y agoIf one would like to read more about the insidious relationship between US CI's and LE, The Intercept has some great leaked material. It really shows how far American TLA's will go to keep their powers, and it's sick. One other aside I would like to add is when you have topics like this which have the potential of upsetting the powers that be, always look for posts that are low in points/grey. Those will be the most informative while the shill posts get high points. They don't like facts.
- jacquesm 6y agoThat size cash transaction would immediately lead to red flags and should have been reported with FINTRAC: https://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/reporting-declaration/info/rptstr-eng https://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/reporting-declaration/info/... If it wasn't that by itself suggests something illegal.
- lebuffon 6y agoIt may cause a "suspicious transaction report" to be submitted to FINTRAC but they receive a multitude of these reports from FIs and financial services companies daily. There is no guarantee that it would be acted on in a timely manner. (most likely not)
- brandon272 6y agoThe article addresses FINTRAC and how the transaction would have been cleared.
- tonyarkles 6y agoSpecifically that the RCMP also runs FINTRAC, and when they’re paying CIs and agents, they let their buddies in FINTRAC know ahead of time so that the transactions can be processed manually.
- oh_sigh 6y agoSo many conspiracy theorists in this thread when by far the most obvious explanation is the dude just snapped. Maybe he was a CI. Maybe Brinks lets you withdraw money that way for certain businesses. Either way neither of those things lead to his rampage. The story of this is that if he was in fact a CI, that the RCMP let him get away with crimes and violent behavior so he would keep giving them info. But for people saying this is a false flag, come on...
- Topgamer7 6y agoI am disappointed in the use of the killers name. Most media here in Canada did not display his name nor picture during broadcast. If you celebritize their actions you incentivise the other unstable people.
- Tiktaalik 6y agoIt's a sad state of affairs that while the fact that the shooter was working for the RCMP is a good explanation for the fact that the large number of red flags around his illegal weapon ownership and spousal abuse was ignored, its no better of an explanation than the fact that the police generally are terrible and don't care.
- ufmace 6y agoWell that's super weird. A few things stick out to me: That sounds like quite a lot of money. Much more than I would expect the RCMP to routinely hand out to anyone as a payment. And we don't know for sure it's actually from RCMP. If it was, I wonder if it was meant to be buy money for some kind of controlled buy of drugs or weapons. Was he even involved in large-scale drug trafficking? I guess they aren't saying exactly what their relationship, if any, was with him. Some are claiming that this suggests that his mass shooting was a planned false-flag operation. But if it was, why give the guy a huge pile of cash in a way that would look suspicious later? If you wanted to organize a false-flag mass shooting, I would think it would be much easier to find some random nutter of questionable stability that you could wind up and talk into it. I wouldn't think giving him half a mil in cash would factor into the plan. If it was, better to have a cop pick it up from Brinks and give it to him in a parking lot somewhere or something like that. The money seems to have disappeared too. If it was really his money, you would think some family member would be a lot more interested in recovering it.
- blisseyGo 6y agoWe don't even know if he's actually dead or not though.
- blisseyGo 6y ago> "The RCMP Operations Manual, a copy of which was obtained by Maclean’s, authorizes the force to mislead all but the courts in order to conceal the identity of confidential informants and agent sources. > “The identity of a source must be protected at all times except when the administration of justice requires otherwise, i.e. a member cannot mislead a court in any proceeding in order to protect a source.” So RCMP could simply not be telling the truth as they are authorized to lie?