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A grandmaster who got Twitch hooked on chess

474 points by exanimo_sai 6y ago

mattbillenstein 6y ago
pogchamps is pretty entertaining - it's not great chess, but it's some of the most fun I've had watching people play chess.
- nafey 6y ago
  Which makes you wonder why no one tried to get together a bunch of celebs to play chess earlier? Think Woody Harrelson vs Sting
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - capableweb 6y ago
    Some sentiments I've seen being passed around in some chess communities is that things like this makes chess less attractive to people who regard chess as something you need to spend bunch of years to learn before you get interesting enough games to be broadcast. They see the current movement of "Twitch profiles playing chess against others" as something like a celebrity-disease overtaking the sport that used to be low-profile. Edit: just to be clear, I don't agree with this stance. Just echoing what I've seen elsewhere to try to answer the "wonder why no one tried to get together a bunch of celebs to play chess earlier?" question
    - gk1 6y ago
      This sentiment is rightly being called out as elitism. Reminds me of skateboarding in the 90s when some skateboarders would hate on newbies who got into skateboarding as a result of Tony Hawk, X-Games, THPS, or any other reason that wasn’t deemed pure or authentic. Now they marvel at the fact that skateboarding is an Olympic sport... Yeah, no thanks to you!
      - capableweb 6y ago
        I agree! For sure elitism. Judging by the downvotes, I wasn't clear that I didn't agree with the standpoint. I think every ecosystem at points go through this "elitism" fad when it reaches a certain threshold of members. Seemingly to keep X being a niche they can identify with, instead of something mainstream some people only do for fun. Point is, not exclusive to chess, just as gk1 pointed out.
      - Tiltowait-- 6y ago
        Well, many subcultures have been destroyed by an influx of newcomers. The newcomers bring money, the money attracts sociopaths, and the sociopaths destroy the subculture and move on to the next one. It's a real fear and has happened many times. See: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths Lots of subcultures would rather keep the high barriers to entry and stay in the happy eternal summer phase even if it means they never get popular.
    - newswasboring 6y ago
      Who is even saying this? Can you give some examples? ninja edit: The question is there because I want to know the reasoning better. It cant just be this.
      - Yanu-3452 6y ago
        One grandmaster described the streamers as having "negative talent in life".
        pouta 6y ago
        You mean the barely GM, 50-sub Andy?
        newen 6y ago
        It was Ben Finegold. I'm sure a lot of people think this but don't want to say anything to dissuade people from learning chess. Games by 700 rated low skilled players are really really boring to me but good for twitch viewers for enjoying them. Don't really care.
        pouta 6y ago
        He definitely fits my description :)
      - abnry 6y ago
        Probably the best way to understand it is similar to the complaints that Stack Overflow is filled with basic beginner questions on the front page to the extent they drown out any questions with real technical meat.
      - gk1 6y ago
        Seems mostly casual players, although there is at least one GM (Ben Finegold) who was very vocal with this stance, until recently. I suspect the people most troubled by this new wave are those who use chess as a crutch for their own identity. If chess is viewed as a game for sophisticated, intelligent, cultured, etc, people, then they as chess players are also sophisticated, intelligent, cultured, etc. When that image of chess is threatened then they personally feel threatened. Personally I'm glad to see the sudden rise in popularity, and don't care who's playing as long as they're having fun and not ruining it for others. (I'm at a master level.)
  - munchbunny 6y ago
    The hard part is making chess accessible. One of the things that is making chess work on Twitch is that a lot of the streamers are already playing games, chess is just another one. Having compatible commentators is also hugely important. While watching famous celebs do mundane things is a real form of entertainment, I think it's a bigger leap for those fans to follow the celebs into a game of chess.
awb 6y ago
Chess.com has excellent live coverage of many top chess tournaments. Their paid commentators are almost always engaging and make watching chess informative and exciting. They also provide links to top Twitch streamers who are playing on their platform like Hikaru Nakamura. I'm not affiliated with the site, just impressed with their content.
deleted 6y ago
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tentboy 6y ago
Magnus Carlsen has been streaming for a little while! sometimes doing silly things then absolutely wiping the floor of his opponent like in this clip https://m.livestreamfails.com/post/36320 https://m.livestreamfails.com/post/36320
- himlion 6y ago
  That's funny that he can casually do that against a grandmaster. Still far ahead of the field.
  - haberdasher 6y ago
    He was also drinking a lot in this stream. He would routinely break out "The Transvestite Opening"* for fun. And still mauled gms. * https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/the-transvestite-opening https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/the-transves...
  - lgl 6y ago
    Well, at 13 years old, Carlsen (#700) was already giving Kasparov (#1) a run for his money while looking kind of bored and casually checking out the other matches around them [0] so I'm fairly sure a GM rank on a website isn't really something he worries about that much now that he's spent 120 months as world's #1 and holds the record for highest rated player in chess history. Kasparov still holds the title for most time spent at #1 at some impressive 255 months though. [1] [0] https://youtu.be/WjEmquJhSas https://youtu.be/WjEmquJhSas [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIDE_chess_world_number_ones#Player_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIDE_chess_world_numbe...
- netcan 6y ago
  This is the point, I think. That's great content. It's a grandmaster vs world champion match. It's silly and fun. "Feats of chess" like simultaneous or blindfolded matches have always been popular. All that packed into a 2 minute bullet game.
- jpxw 6y ago
  Magnus Carlsen is obviously insanely good, that goes without saying. But he tends not to explain what he’s doing in the same way other streamers do. I find it more fun to watch when there is commentary on the reasons behind the moves being made.
petercooper 6y ago
I can't deal with chess but a similar thing has been happening with Sudoku and I have become a bit addicted to it :-) It's always interesting to see things that had a bit of an arcane or geeky reputation now having large audiences given we're all in the same online 'place' as it were.
- tosers4 6y ago
  They are just games, nothing geeky about them. It's actually pretty popular here to play checkers/droughts in pubs (specially old, cheap pubs for the working class), occasionally you see someone playing chess, but the older crowed didn't actually learn chess, and the younger crowd is more focused on digital, it seems. Usually here you see Sueca [1] mostly, followed by Dominoes, and then checkers, again, you don't see much chess not because it's for "intellectuals" but because it's simply not popular enough so very few people know how to play, and playing is a very social local thing. And ofc, there is always people standing around watching someone play. It's a usual sight to enter a pub and a 4 guys in a table playing Sueca in silence, surrounded by some folks watching. It's even more interesting because Sueca "etiquette" makes it a silent game during play, but after, during count, deal, etc, everybody is commenting, add alcohol and people watching, and it's a marvelous thing. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sueca_(card_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sueca_(card_game)
  - petercooper 6y ago
    It's probably cultural in my case. I was brought up in a working class environment where playing these sort of games and puzzles was not commonplace and my interest in them was seen as a bit geeky :-) Now you mention it, I've seen plenty of videos from other countries where people are playing chess and the likes on the street, so my perspective of the game is probably peculiar to my upbringing.
  - andrepd 6y ago
    Sueca is actually a pretty interesting and complex game. Bridge-lite if you will.
    - 6y ago
philshem 6y ago
https://lichess.org https://lichess.org is fantastic for online chess. But we need a lichess for Backgammon! Backgammon has tons of strategy but also has the element of chance because of the dice roll - anyone can win anygame (in theory, at least). There is even a lichess forum post about making lichess for backgammon: https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/backgammon-clone-of-lichess https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/backgammon-clone-...
- bschne 6y ago
  Playing chess was only a brief phase for me, I never really got into it, but I love lichess - it's open source, completely free, doesn't run ads, and the UX is amazing, it just works perfectly and there are no unnecessary gimmicks. One of those few exemplary projects to take a big chunk of inspiration from, if you ask me!
  - shpongled 6y ago
    Lichess is the best 'web app' I've used, bar none.
  - noir_lord 6y ago
    Guy behind it is lovely to talk to as well and the iPhone and android clients are pretty much best in class in addition to the web interface been best in class as well.
- lgl 6y ago
  lichess.org's creator, Thibault Duplessis has an hn account [0] and has made some posts around here (although his last post appears to have been in 2015). The entire thing is also free, open-source and with a very diverse tech stack behind it that includes Scala, Redis, MongoDB, Elasticsearch, Typescript, websockets, nginx and more [1] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ornicar https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ornicar [1] https://github.com/ornicar/lila https://github.com/ornicar/lila
  - grantismo 6y ago
vmchale 6y ago
damn we are bored as shit
deleted 6y ago
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tuxiano 6y ago
My hypothesis is that learning chess is such a long path that people tend to forget how they were when they started and think their current level games are not interesting to share or stream. Pogchamps success demonstrates that a lot of people like chess as entertainment in addition to a mind challenge.
tholman 6y ago
I've been loving this boom for a ton of reasons. Hikaru does an amazing job of sharing his knowledge and skill without spilling over the top with information about why certain moves are theoretically better than others 30 moves down the line than only a small percentage of people would understand. The skill gap is insane, but he makes it feel approachable. Its been fun watching the pogchamps series for the most part because himself and Botez (and a few others) can share their knowledge without being affronting or elitist, but instead exploring and explaining why certain good moves are sometimes hard to find or don't feel natural. Simplifying the language and using arrows on the board to show moves, rather than just blasting chess notation at the screen. You can see them holding back when a player makes a certain move, and then openly assess the goods and bads. They've shown behind the scene training sessions on pogchamps too, showing a little into the world (again at a much lower level) how you would begin to prep and build your chess opening repertoire that is approachable for someone who is learning. And then at the end of the day, its also just fun to watch someone who has an insane amount of talent be a complete boss in their field. Honestly feels like the top players are scanning a QR code and know what to do without a second thought [1] ... To pin onto this for those who enjoy chess but perhaps don't like the stress of online play, I've found the puzzles on lichess [2] to be a great way to learn and be challenged by the game. - [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-pePy_1_Ts&t=50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-pePy_1_Ts&t=50 - [2] https://lichess.org/training/ https://lichess.org/training/
- jpxw 6y ago
  Hikaru not Hiraku :P
- faizshah 6y ago
  I agree. This tournament is the first time I can understand both the commentary and the moves the players are making. As a player who only understands the rules it’s easy to understand why a player would blunder their queen after forgetting that their knight was protecting it and the commentary helps you understand what they should have done. It’s sorta like why the show “High Stakes Poker” was so entertaining vs tournament Game Theory Optimal poker play.
- narag 6y ago
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underdeserver 6y ago
This boom, including Pogchamps, has been great. First of all, chess has been unapproachable for a long time. You see grandmasters making this move instead of that and for a beginner there's absolutely zero chance you're going to understand why. Or you see something that looks good, a fork that you think wins material but the GM doesn't play it; you don't understand why it was bad. Sure, you could go into analysis in Lichess but are you going to do that for every single game? Is that fun? Nakamura, Hess and Botez have been doing a great job making it more approachable - at a level anyone can follow. The coaching videos are great to watch, even if you're a slight bit stronger (I'm ~2000 blitz on Lichess). And some of the players - Voyboy in particular - have been getting significantly better over the course of the tournament. You can follow along, get better yourself, and discover the deeper and deeper levels of the game at a tractable pace, and that I think is the key to getting into a new hobby. There's also always been a sense of elitism in chess. The opinion against Pogchamps here[1] shows that: > "If Chess.com wanted to do a show with gamers and streamers, instead of presenting them as fools they should have been respected as the learners they are at chess." Bull. A beginner is NOT a fool, and the only prerequisite to playing chess is knowing the rules. [1] https://www.chesstech.org/2020/is-pogchamps-a-good-way-to-promote/ https://www.chesstech.org/2020/is-pogchamps-a-good-way-to-pr...
- jpxw 6y ago
  Don’t forget John Bartholomew. Not a GM yet, but he will be someday IMO. Oh, and Ben Finegold (who is a GM). I found them more informative than Hikaru and Botez by far.
  - lubesGordi 6y ago
    John Bartholomew is the best. Tons of great stuff on his youtube. Also he founded chessable.com which is pretty great for drilling chess openings, endings, etc.
    - SubiculumCode 6y ago
      I'm a big fan of IM Bartholomew. The recent IM not a GM championship was so much fun to follow. Congrats John aka the Super IM. I've been commenting a lot, so this post won't probably get through...
0x3d3d3d 6y ago
One of my favorite aspects of this is the chat satirically treating Chess like any other game on Twitch: - When's the next patch coming out? - Nerf the queen, too strong - Blundered a piece, intentionally feeding - Queen h6 was mate, missed lethal
- srge 6y ago
  The queen is definitely OP :)
- shmageggy 6y ago
  r/anarchychess if you like this sort of thing :)
- yen223 6y ago
  En passant was a balance patch against the overpowered pawn 2-square move
Yanu-3452 6y ago
Unironically chess is an e-sport and this recent explosion is because Hikaru, Botez, Hess et al. have woken up to that idea and embraced it. The best computers can easily beat the top humans just as an aimbot could beat Navi easily at CS:GO. So the focus in chess has moved away from manually exploring to find optimal plays and new opening styles as was the trend in the 19th century chess rennaisance to a focus on preparation so that a player can quickly find best moves, under significant pressure, in any given match. That makes it much more like a strategy game. Embracing memes makes it more accessible to viewers who are used to watching hearthstone, csgo, league, dota or other esports and it's been really fun to watch. I started watching chess on twitch a while ago during the Tata steel tournament and I thought back then it would quickly grow if they focused their commentary on casual level viewers and it's been fantastic to have been proved correct.
- LanceH 6y ago
  chessnetwork (a Canadian National Master's name on twitch) is a warm and welcoming streamer as well.
  - kohtatsu 6y ago
    Seconded. Jerry makes thorough yet cosy and approachable content. Edit: he also covers engines which I find pretty interesting, a lot of Leela but my favourite so far is this game with AlphaZero and Stockfish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m5oXlZ_e_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m5oXlZ_e_A
- ehsankia 6y ago
  To me it seems like the current explosion is the genius idea of pitching the most famous Twitch personalities against each other in a tournament. This is similar to how Dr. K blew up by giving live therapy session to Twitch personalities with huge followings. If you add up the followers of all the participants [0], you already have a huge pool of probably over a million viewers to start with, all rooting for their favorite streamer. [0] https://www.chess.com/article/view/chesscom-pogchamps https://www.chess.com/article/view/chesscom-pogchamps
luisehk 6y ago
As a casual player, I've been enjoying it. High-level games are sometimes hard to follow but it has motivated me to get out of my comfort zone and get better at chess.
EGreg 6y ago
Because of David Pakman lol
blastro 6y ago
Truly the golden age of chess. Shoutout to lichess.org - one of the best sites on the internet IMHO.
karimf 6y ago
This is a real example of how things can go from 1 to 1.000.000 by a combination of luck and execution. GM Hikaru have been streaming chess since ~2 years ago [0] but there was little traction. Then one day he got into stream with xQc, one of the biggest streamer on Twitch. Because of Hikaru's skill and meme, many xQc followers started to follow Hikaru. Soon, Hikaru joined Lindores Abbey Challenge, an online chess tournament where 12 world's best chess players compete, including Magnus Carlsen. I think that tournament was what made this whole trends possible. The recent surge of Hikaru's followers are chanting on the Twitch chat to give support to Hikaru. And Hikaru was playing against Magnus Carlsen, the final boss in the chess world. It felt like you're watching the latest episode of an anime/tv series. The momentum didn't stop there. Hikaru knew the fads usually won't last long, so they made the pogchamps tournaments, featuring big streamers, to capitalize on the momentum and to make sure it was just not a fad. [0] https://twitter.com/gmhikaru/status/1058781473271148544 https://twitter.com/gmhikaru/status/1058781473271148544
- abnry 6y ago
  Also, don't forget the whole COVID-19 isolation thing, which encouraged people to find ways to pass the time online. I've seen graphs showing the number of users on lichess significantly increased right when the lockdowns started.
madballster 6y ago
Chess has been declared dead so many times to online chess it seems to stage a big upturn with the younger crowd. I am happy to see it.
mellosouls 6y ago
The current presence on Twitch of young, funny chess masters like the Chess Brahs and the Botez sisters with top level talents like Nakamura crossing over with famous xQc-types is maybe the best thing to happen to chess in recent years to showcase it as something fun loving young people can enjoy, not just the dusty old men and social incompetents of caricature. It would be great if it encourages new people to come in from esports and elsewhere, and bust through the gatekeepers and play this brilliant game. https://www.twitch.tv/botezlive https://www.twitch.tv/botezlive Botez Compilation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9VVcrwQGqU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9VVcrwQGqU ----- https://www.twitch.tv/chessbrah https://www.twitch.tv/chessbrah ChessBrahs Nightcore Bullet Run https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCYEUQvjq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCYEUQvjq4 (comment reposted with video links from a submission I posted on the subject the other day https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23397314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23397314)
- bradly 6y ago
  > Twitch of young, funny chess masters Don't forget about the old, funny chess masters :) https://www.twitch.tv/gmbenjaminfinegold https://www.twitch.tv/gmbenjaminfinegold
- SubiculumCode 6y ago
  Wait, Botez has a sister?
  - mellosouls 6y ago
    Yep, she's featured in the compilation above. They are great as a duo as well.
- krick 6y ago
  Yeah, everyone repeats this "the best thing to happen to chess" passage, but, seriously, I don't see how it makes any sense. I mean, good for who? "Chess"? Chess is a game, it doesn't give a fuck who plays or watches it. It may be argued that chess is rather a field for studies, which, like any science, benefits from more resources spent on studying it, but let's be honest: future GMs are not bored 20 y.o. kids, introduced to chess by watching xQc. So, no, it is not good, nor especially bad for chess. Is it good for Hikaru? Definitely. It is good for Hikaru, Botez, maybe Naroditsky or whoever else will manage to catch a ride on the hype train. Because they get more money. Alexandra's channel is now worth like 50 times more than 2 months ago, and market for coaching will be probably bigger now. Likewise, it is good for chess.com, which has all these guys on a payroll under contracts that forbid them streaming while playing on any other platform than chess.com Community... Well, it's hard to define who exactly constitutes a community, but if we are talking about people who were playing chess and watching GMHikaru or BotezLive 2 months ago, it doesn't seem to me they got anything out of it. It was a community of somewhat similarly-minded people, there was at least some space for meaningful conversations in twitch-chat. Absolute majority was actually somewhat into chess (probably like 1100-1800 ELO) and there was a nice homely environment. Now all the trash previously contained within xQc's channel is spilled all over the place, it's just mindless spamming emotes and such. 50% of Hikaru's content is now "reacting to xQc doing stupid shit". 700-ELO player who at least attempts to think before making a move is now "naturally talented player and definitely not a newbie". I mean, honestly, it just isn't enjoyable anymore. It isn't the place these people used to come for. And people who got introduced to chess because they were Forsen's of xQc's viewers didn't actually get much either, because they don't really care about the subject. If xQc was suddenly an avid crossword-puzzle sover, they would obsess over crossword-puzzles all the same. It doesn't matter.
zitterbewegung 6y ago
Man I should just start coding on a twitch account for my side projects. I can't go to meetups anymore for obvious reasons and I have been putting it off.
jbj 6y ago
I wonder if chess is actually the first ever online game. My granddad used to play chess over his rotary land line. Some enthusiasts must have tried a game over telegram/morse or other technology.
- redog 6y ago
  What's considered online? Was it pong that became the first video game? Chess over landline kind of sounds more online than pong.
- fenwick67 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correspondence_chess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correspondence_chess
- swilliamsio 6y ago
  Chess has been played by mail for centuries. It wouldn't be surprising to me at all if it was also the first ever online game.
- Tiltowait-- 6y ago
  Diplomacy was played by mail since shortly after the game was invented in the 1950s. It formed an important part of what today we call geek culture. It overlapped with wargaming and miniatures gaming and directly led to the creation of Dungeons and Dragons, and from thence computer gaming. All but forgotten today, though.
pritambarhate 6y ago
There is a parallel explosion of Chess Streaming in India on YouTube. During the lockdown, a stand-up comedian Samay Raina [1] started streaming Chess with some other famous comedians. None of them are strong players. But the content was so funny that quite a few people started watching. Later Samay became friends with India No. 2 Chess Super GM Vidit Gujrathi [2] and together they have created quite a bit of following on YouTube. In one of his videos, Agadmator [3] said that Indians sign-ups on Chess.com have gone through the roof. However, most of the content is in Hindi. Here are some videos which are in (mostly) English, Vidit's trash talk with anther Indian GM Baskaran Adhiban[4], Vidit Playing Serious Chess Blitz tournament on Chess.com [5] [1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAov2BBv1ZJav0c_yHEciAw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAov2BBv1ZJav0c_yHEciAw [2] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpjTx5WsF4yqyvGIYY8nuVg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpjTx5WsF4yqyvGIYY8nuVg [3] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL5YbN5WLFD8dLIegT5QAbA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL5YbN5WLFD8dLIegT5QAbA [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjaDxN5xLHs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjaDxN5xLHs [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJeM-TBPqI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJeM-TBPqI0
- yewenjie 6y ago
  Personal opinion : I absolutely hate Samay Raina's utter nonsense commentary, which is cringe at worst, and irrelevant at best.
  - Tiltowait-- 6y ago
    Lots of people like a stream of consciousness nonsense. It gives them a good feeling. They're not so much listening to the man talk as they are having a feeling of social interaction. Of course, there is no interaction as it's all one way, but our brains are fooled quite well by it and the pleasing chemicals released by the experience are quite real.
tobyhinloopen 6y ago
Grandmain.
DeonPenny 6y ago
I've been watching the POG chess tournament. It's honestly so fascinating how quickly it spread through the twitch gaming community. I guess gaming is gaming and there a clear reason why chess has always been popular.
bluecalm 6y ago
I think what made Hikaru a controversial and not always the most liked classical player makes a perfect combination for a popular streamer. Quick mind, sometimes moody, easily tilted, very competitive and sometimes opinionated. I wasn't his biggest fan when he was top 5 classical player but today I am a happy subscriber to his stream and always cheer for him in rapid/blitz tournaments.
- mattbillenstein 6y ago
  I think he's growing into it - seems like his streams have become much looser and fun over time - I wouldn't have thought a super-gm could do chess content and not be super serious about it all the time.
lawn 6y ago
Is there something similar for Go? I do like chess but Go just appeals to me more.
- munchbunny 6y ago
  Not in the sense of trending on Twitch, but there's plenty of places where you can play Go online.
- jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
  There are some good twitch go streamers, but it hasn't blown up in popularity like chess did recently. Check out https://www.twitch.tv/battsgo https://www.twitch.tv/battsgo for a go streamer that's pretty approachable, including doing a "basics" stream weekly. The Go world could learn a bit from how this chess boom is streamlining the presentation and terminology. The english go world tends to use mangled versions of the japanese strategic terms, and tbh, they aren't particularly helpful for learning.
jack_pp 6y ago
I got into chess a couple of months ago and it has been fun but I don't understand how people watch Hikaru play 3min chess. It's very hard for a beginner to wrap their head around what his moves mean. I'd have to pause and think every move through for a couple of minutes if I really wanted to understand. I think people watch more for what he says while playing than the actual game
- twox2 6y ago
  Check out Eric Rosen on youtube, he has great videos where he plays blitz chess and talks through his thought process. It's very helpful.
  - abnry 6y ago
    Eric Rosen is the Bob Ross of chess.
    - twox2 6y ago
      Agreed! So soft spoken.
- mattbillenstein 6y ago
  Also some of ChessNetwork's content on youtube - the slower games in particular - 10m + I'll say also if you want to improve at chess, you need to play slower time controls to build that pattern recognition and "muscle memory" up. Blitz is fun, but it's hard to really think deep and learn a lot.
29athrowaway 6y ago
For chess, lichess.org is excellent. For shogi there's 81dojo.com and for Go there's online-go.com and shin.gokgs.com
imgabe 6y ago
I recently got back into chess after discovering there's a huge wealth of chess videos on YouTube. (Probably news to no one I know) It's great to be able to learn about a new opening or trap or whatnot then jump into an online game and hopefully try it out.
mkchoi212 6y ago
This is awesome. Chess becoming main stream again as people bored in quarantine are looking for new brain engaging activities.
pranit10 6y ago
I am so happy to see Hackernews users overlap with twitch.
sitkack 6y ago
What a wonderful hack! Praxis. Now if we can get Nascar on to e-sports (large mosfet kind).
hiop 6y ago
"grandmain"
SubiculumCode 6y ago
Hey Guys. It's John. Gonna play some 3 0 on Lichess. I'm drinking herbal tea, and I've got a pot of MJB brewing, cuz its good when it should. Okay, let's play a scandi, #TeamScandi. (•‿•)
dilandau 6y ago
What chess engine do you all recommend for gnome-chess? I see glaurung, fairy-max, hoi-chess, gnuchess?
Buttons840 6y ago
Aside: I saw new beauty in chess recently in a game with a queen vs a rook, knight, and pawn in the end game. The game lasted for over 40 moves in this state before ending in a draw. Chess engine analysis had the game as dead even. Chess may be a bit more complicated and arbitrary than Go, but seeing how the pieces very exactly fit their 1, 3, 5, and 9 point values allowed me to see the mathematical beauty of the game for the first time.
- krick 6y ago
  They don't "exactly fit their 1, 3, 5, and 9 point values" at all. Piece value is depending on the stage of the game and even the exact position, and even averaged value estimation fluctuates wildly. For example, for Stockfish it's 4.16, 4.41, 6.625, 12.92 (N, B, R, Q). And for endgames too, a queen vs 2 rooks may be winning for either side or a draw depending on a position.
  - Buttons840 6y ago
    You mean stockfish is programmed to consider a queen as being worth almost 13 points? Granted, the pieces naive value matters little compared to the tree search stockfish does.
    - krick 6y ago
      Yes, stockfish is programmed to consider a queen as being worth "almost 13 points", and no, "naïve" piece values have absolutely crucial, primarily role to do the search and complete the mission.
zacharycohn 6y ago
In middle school I started playing chess at a local club that met at a Barnes and Noble. I was 1/3 of the age of the next youngest person and I doubt I ever won a single game, but I learned so much. My favorite person at the club, and I tried to play with him as often as I could, was this boisterous old man who would drop movie one-liners constantly. He'd take a pawn with his knight and bellow "I HAVE YOU NOW." I'd occasionally grab one of his rooks, "Great kid, but don't get cocky!"
nazgulnarsil 6y ago
play crazyhouse, make chess fun again.

474 points by exanimo_sai 6y ago

pogchamps is pretty entertaining - it's not great chess, but it's some of the most fun I've had watching people play chess.

nafey 6y ago
Which makes you wonder why no one tried to get together a bunch of celebs to play chess earlier? Think Woody Harrelson vs Sting
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- capableweb 6y ago
  Some sentiments I've seen being passed around in some chess communities is that things like this makes chess less attractive to people who regard chess as something you need to spend bunch of years to learn before you get interesting enough games to be broadcast. They see the current movement of "Twitch profiles playing chess against others" as something like a celebrity-disease overtaking the sport that used to be low-profile. Edit: just to be clear, I don't agree with this stance. Just echoing what I've seen elsewhere to try to answer the "wonder why no one tried to get together a bunch of celebs to play chess earlier?" question
  - gk1 6y ago
    This sentiment is rightly being called out as elitism. Reminds me of skateboarding in the 90s when some skateboarders would hate on newbies who got into skateboarding as a result of Tony Hawk, X-Games, THPS, or any other reason that wasn’t deemed pure or authentic. Now they marvel at the fact that skateboarding is an Olympic sport... Yeah, no thanks to you!
    - capableweb 6y ago
      I agree! For sure elitism. Judging by the downvotes, I wasn't clear that I didn't agree with the standpoint. I think every ecosystem at points go through this "elitism" fad when it reaches a certain threshold of members. Seemingly to keep X being a niche they can identify with, instead of something mainstream some people only do for fun. Point is, not exclusive to chess, just as gk1 pointed out.
    - Tiltowait-- 6y ago
      Well, many subcultures have been destroyed by an influx of newcomers. The newcomers bring money, the money attracts sociopaths, and the sociopaths destroy the subculture and move on to the next one. It's a real fear and has happened many times. See: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths Lots of subcultures would rather keep the high barriers to entry and stay in the happy eternal summer phase even if it means they never get popular.
  - newswasboring 6y ago
    Who is even saying this? Can you give some examples? ninja edit: The question is there because I want to know the reasoning better. It cant just be this.
    - Yanu-3452 6y ago
      One grandmaster described the streamers as having "negative talent in life".
      - pouta 6y ago
        You mean the barely GM, 50-sub Andy?
        newen 6y ago
        It was Ben Finegold. I'm sure a lot of people think this but don't want to say anything to dissuade people from learning chess. Games by 700 rated low skilled players are really really boring to me but good for twitch viewers for enjoying them. Don't really care.
        pouta 6y ago
        He definitely fits my description :)
    - abnry 6y ago
      Probably the best way to understand it is similar to the complaints that Stack Overflow is filled with basic beginner questions on the front page to the extent they drown out any questions with real technical meat.
    - gk1 6y ago
      Seems mostly casual players, although there is at least one GM (Ben Finegold) who was very vocal with this stance, until recently. I suspect the people most troubled by this new wave are those who use chess as a crutch for their own identity. If chess is viewed as a game for sophisticated, intelligent, cultured, etc, people, then they as chess players are also sophisticated, intelligent, cultured, etc. When that image of chess is threatened then they personally feel threatened. Personally I'm glad to see the sudden rise in popularity, and don't care who's playing as long as they're having fun and not ruining it for others. (I'm at a master level.)
- munchbunny 6y ago
  The hard part is making chess accessible. One of the things that is making chess work on Twitch is that a lot of the streamers are already playing games, chess is just another one. Having compatible commentators is also hugely important. While watching famous celebs do mundane things is a real form of entertainment, I think it's a bigger leap for those fans to follow the celebs into a game of chess.

awb 6y ago

Chess.com has excellent live coverage of many top chess tournaments. Their paid commentators are almost always engaging and make watching chess informative and exciting. They also provide links to top Twitch streamers who are playing on their platform like Hikaru Nakamura. I'm not affiliated with the site, just impressed with their content.

deleted 6y ago

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tentboy 6y ago

Magnus Carlsen has been streaming for a little while! sometimes doing silly things then absolutely wiping the floor of his opponent like in this clip https://m.livestreamfails.com/post/36320 https://m.livestreamfails.com/post/36320

himlion 6y ago
That's funny that he can casually do that against a grandmaster. Still far ahead of the field.
- haberdasher 6y ago
  He was also drinking a lot in this stream. He would routinely break out "The Transvestite Opening"* for fun. And still mauled gms. * https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/the-transvestite-opening https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/the-transves...
- lgl 6y ago
  Well, at 13 years old, Carlsen (#700) was already giving Kasparov (#1) a run for his money while looking kind of bored and casually checking out the other matches around them [0] so I'm fairly sure a GM rank on a website isn't really something he worries about that much now that he's spent 120 months as world's #1 and holds the record for highest rated player in chess history. Kasparov still holds the title for most time spent at #1 at some impressive 255 months though. [1] [0] https://youtu.be/WjEmquJhSas https://youtu.be/WjEmquJhSas [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIDE_chess_world_number_ones#Player_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIDE_chess_world_numbe...
netcan 6y ago
This is the point, I think. That's great content. It's a grandmaster vs world champion match. It's silly and fun. "Feats of chess" like simultaneous or blindfolded matches have always been popular. All that packed into a 2 minute bullet game.
jpxw 6y ago
Magnus Carlsen is obviously insanely good, that goes without saying. But he tends not to explain what he’s doing in the same way other streamers do. I find it more fun to watch when there is commentary on the reasons behind the moves being made.

petercooper 6y ago

I can't deal with chess but a similar thing has been happening with Sudoku and I have become a bit addicted to it :-) It's always interesting to see things that had a bit of an arcane or geeky reputation now having large audiences given we're all in the same online 'place' as it were.

tosers4 6y ago
They are just games, nothing geeky about them. It's actually pretty popular here to play checkers/droughts in pubs (specially old, cheap pubs for the working class), occasionally you see someone playing chess, but the older crowed didn't actually learn chess, and the younger crowd is more focused on digital, it seems. Usually here you see Sueca [1] mostly, followed by Dominoes, and then checkers, again, you don't see much chess not because it's for "intellectuals" but because it's simply not popular enough so very few people know how to play, and playing is a very social local thing. And ofc, there is always people standing around watching someone play. It's a usual sight to enter a pub and a 4 guys in a table playing Sueca in silence, surrounded by some folks watching. It's even more interesting because Sueca "etiquette" makes it a silent game during play, but after, during count, deal, etc, everybody is commenting, add alcohol and people watching, and it's a marvelous thing. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sueca_(card_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sueca_(card_game)
- petercooper 6y ago
  It's probably cultural in my case. I was brought up in a working class environment where playing these sort of games and puzzles was not commonplace and my interest in them was seen as a bit geeky :-) Now you mention it, I've seen plenty of videos from other countries where people are playing chess and the likes on the street, so my perspective of the game is probably peculiar to my upbringing.
- andrepd 6y ago
  Sueca is actually a pretty interesting and complex game. Bridge-lite if you will.
  - 6y ago

philshem 6y ago

https://lichess.org https://lichess.org is fantastic for online chess. But we need a lichess for Backgammon! Backgammon has tons of strategy but also has the element of chance because of the dice roll - anyone can win anygame (in theory, at least). There is even a lichess forum post about making lichess for backgammon: https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/backgammon-clone-of-lichess https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/backgammon-clone-...

bschne 6y ago
Playing chess was only a brief phase for me, I never really got into it, but I love lichess - it's open source, completely free, doesn't run ads, and the UX is amazing, it just works perfectly and there are no unnecessary gimmicks. One of those few exemplary projects to take a big chunk of inspiration from, if you ask me!
- shpongled 6y ago
  Lichess is the best 'web app' I've used, bar none.
- noir_lord 6y ago
  Guy behind it is lovely to talk to as well and the iPhone and android clients are pretty much best in class in addition to the web interface been best in class as well.
lgl 6y ago
lichess.org's creator, Thibault Duplessis has an hn account [0] and has made some posts around here (although his last post appears to have been in 2015). The entire thing is also free, open-source and with a very diverse tech stack behind it that includes Scala, Redis, MongoDB, Elasticsearch, Typescript, websockets, nginx and more [1] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ornicar https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ornicar [1] https://github.com/ornicar/lila https://github.com/ornicar/lila
- grantismo 6y ago

vmchale 6y ago

damn we are bored as shit

deleted 6y ago

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tuxiano 6y ago

My hypothesis is that learning chess is such a long path that people tend to forget how they were when they started and think their current level games are not interesting to share or stream. Pogchamps success demonstrates that a lot of people like chess as entertainment in addition to a mind challenge.

tholman 6y ago

I've been loving this boom for a ton of reasons. Hikaru does an amazing job of sharing his knowledge and skill without spilling over the top with information about why certain moves are theoretically better than others 30 moves down the line than only a small percentage of people would understand. The skill gap is insane, but he makes it feel approachable. Its been fun watching the pogchamps series for the most part because himself and Botez (and a few others) can share their knowledge without being affronting or elitist, but instead exploring and explaining why certain good moves are sometimes hard to find or don't feel natural. Simplifying the language and using arrows on the board to show moves, rather than just blasting chess notation at the screen. You can see them holding back when a player makes a certain move, and then openly assess the goods and bads. They've shown behind the scene training sessions on pogchamps too, showing a little into the world (again at a much lower level) how you would begin to prep and build your chess opening repertoire that is approachable for someone who is learning. And then at the end of the day, its also just fun to watch someone who has an insane amount of talent be a complete boss in their field. Honestly feels like the top players are scanning a QR code and know what to do without a second thought [1] ... To pin onto this for those who enjoy chess but perhaps don't like the stress of online play, I've found the puzzles on lichess [2] to be a great way to learn and be challenged by the game. - [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-pePy_1_Ts&t=50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-pePy_1_Ts&t=50 - [2] https://lichess.org/training/ https://lichess.org/training/

jpxw 6y ago
Hikaru not Hiraku :P
faizshah 6y ago
I agree. This tournament is the first time I can understand both the commentary and the moves the players are making. As a player who only understands the rules it’s easy to understand why a player would blunder their queen after forgetting that their knight was protecting it and the commentary helps you understand what they should have done. It’s sorta like why the show “High Stakes Poker” was so entertaining vs tournament Game Theory Optimal poker play.
narag 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

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underdeserver 6y ago

This boom, including Pogchamps, has been great. First of all, chess has been unapproachable for a long time. You see grandmasters making this move instead of that and for a beginner there's absolutely zero chance you're going to understand why. Or you see something that looks good, a fork that you think wins material but the GM doesn't play it; you don't understand why it was bad. Sure, you could go into analysis in Lichess but are you going to do that for every single game? Is that fun? Nakamura, Hess and Botez have been doing a great job making it more approachable - at a level anyone can follow. The coaching videos are great to watch, even if you're a slight bit stronger (I'm ~2000 blitz on Lichess). And some of the players - Voyboy in particular - have been getting significantly better over the course of the tournament. You can follow along, get better yourself, and discover the deeper and deeper levels of the game at a tractable pace, and that I think is the key to getting into a new hobby. There's also always been a sense of elitism in chess. The opinion against Pogchamps here[1] shows that: > "If Chess.com wanted to do a show with gamers and streamers, instead of presenting them as fools they should have been respected as the learners they are at chess." Bull. A beginner is NOT a fool, and the only prerequisite to playing chess is knowing the rules. [1] https://www.chesstech.org/2020/is-pogchamps-a-good-way-to-promote/ https://www.chesstech.org/2020/is-pogchamps-a-good-way-to-pr...

jpxw 6y ago
Don’t forget John Bartholomew. Not a GM yet, but he will be someday IMO. Oh, and Ben Finegold (who is a GM). I found them more informative than Hikaru and Botez by far.
- lubesGordi 6y ago
  John Bartholomew is the best. Tons of great stuff on his youtube. Also he founded chessable.com which is pretty great for drilling chess openings, endings, etc.
  - SubiculumCode 6y ago
    I'm a big fan of IM Bartholomew. The recent IM not a GM championship was so much fun to follow. Congrats John aka the Super IM. I've been commenting a lot, so this post won't probably get through...

0x3d3d3d 6y ago

One of my favorite aspects of this is the chat satirically treating Chess like any other game on Twitch: - When's the next patch coming out? - Nerf the queen, too strong - Blundered a piece, intentionally feeding - Queen h6 was mate, missed lethal

srge 6y ago
The queen is definitely OP :)
shmageggy 6y ago
r/anarchychess if you like this sort of thing :)
yen223 6y ago
En passant was a balance patch against the overpowered pawn 2-square move

Yanu-3452 6y ago

Unironically chess is an e-sport and this recent explosion is because Hikaru, Botez, Hess et al. have woken up to that idea and embraced it. The best computers can easily beat the top humans just as an aimbot could beat Navi easily at CS:GO. So the focus in chess has moved away from manually exploring to find optimal plays and new opening styles as was the trend in the 19th century chess rennaisance to a focus on preparation so that a player can quickly find best moves, under significant pressure, in any given match. That makes it much more like a strategy game. Embracing memes makes it more accessible to viewers who are used to watching hearthstone, csgo, league, dota or other esports and it's been really fun to watch. I started watching chess on twitch a while ago during the Tata steel tournament and I thought back then it would quickly grow if they focused their commentary on casual level viewers and it's been fantastic to have been proved correct.

LanceH 6y ago
chessnetwork (a Canadian National Master's name on twitch) is a warm and welcoming streamer as well.
- kohtatsu 6y ago
  Seconded. Jerry makes thorough yet cosy and approachable content. Edit: he also covers engines which I find pretty interesting, a lot of Leela but my favourite so far is this game with AlphaZero and Stockfish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m5oXlZ_e_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m5oXlZ_e_A
ehsankia 6y ago
To me it seems like the current explosion is the genius idea of pitching the most famous Twitch personalities against each other in a tournament. This is similar to how Dr. K blew up by giving live therapy session to Twitch personalities with huge followings. If you add up the followers of all the participants [0], you already have a huge pool of probably over a million viewers to start with, all rooting for their favorite streamer. [0] https://www.chess.com/article/view/chesscom-pogchamps https://www.chess.com/article/view/chesscom-pogchamps

luisehk 6y ago

As a casual player, I've been enjoying it. High-level games are sometimes hard to follow but it has motivated me to get out of my comfort zone and get better at chess.

EGreg 6y ago

Because of David Pakman lol

blastro 6y ago

Truly the golden age of chess. Shoutout to lichess.org - one of the best sites on the internet IMHO.

karimf 6y ago

This is a real example of how things can go from 1 to 1.000.000 by a combination of luck and execution. GM Hikaru have been streaming chess since ~2 years ago [0] but there was little traction. Then one day he got into stream with xQc, one of the biggest streamer on Twitch. Because of Hikaru's skill and meme, many xQc followers started to follow Hikaru. Soon, Hikaru joined Lindores Abbey Challenge, an online chess tournament where 12 world's best chess players compete, including Magnus Carlsen. I think that tournament was what made this whole trends possible. The recent surge of Hikaru's followers are chanting on the Twitch chat to give support to Hikaru. And Hikaru was playing against Magnus Carlsen, the final boss in the chess world. It felt like you're watching the latest episode of an anime/tv series. The momentum didn't stop there. Hikaru knew the fads usually won't last long, so they made the pogchamps tournaments, featuring big streamers, to capitalize on the momentum and to make sure it was just not a fad. [0] https://twitter.com/gmhikaru/status/1058781473271148544 https://twitter.com/gmhikaru/status/1058781473271148544

abnry 6y ago
Also, don't forget the whole COVID-19 isolation thing, which encouraged people to find ways to pass the time online. I've seen graphs showing the number of users on lichess significantly increased right when the lockdowns started.

madballster 6y ago

Chess has been declared dead so many times to online chess it seems to stage a big upturn with the younger crowd. I am happy to see it.

mellosouls 6y ago

The current presence on Twitch of young, funny chess masters like the Chess Brahs and the Botez sisters with top level talents like Nakamura crossing over with famous xQc-types is maybe the best thing to happen to chess in recent years to showcase it as something fun loving young people can enjoy, not just the dusty old men and social incompetents of caricature. It would be great if it encourages new people to come in from esports and elsewhere, and bust through the gatekeepers and play this brilliant game. https://www.twitch.tv/botezlive https://www.twitch.tv/botezlive Botez Compilation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9VVcrwQGqU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9VVcrwQGqU ----- https://www.twitch.tv/chessbrah https://www.twitch.tv/chessbrah ChessBrahs Nightcore Bullet Run https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCYEUQvjq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byCYEUQvjq4 (comment reposted with video links from a submission I posted on the subject the other day https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23397314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23397314)

bradly 6y ago
> Twitch of young, funny chess masters Don't forget about the old, funny chess masters :) https://www.twitch.tv/gmbenjaminfinegold https://www.twitch.tv/gmbenjaminfinegold
SubiculumCode 6y ago
Wait, Botez has a sister?
- mellosouls 6y ago
  Yep, she's featured in the compilation above. They are great as a duo as well.
krick 6y ago
Yeah, everyone repeats this "the best thing to happen to chess" passage, but, seriously, I don't see how it makes any sense. I mean, good for who? "Chess"? Chess is a game, it doesn't give a fuck who plays or watches it. It may be argued that chess is rather a field for studies, which, like any science, benefits from more resources spent on studying it, but let's be honest: future GMs are not bored 20 y.o. kids, introduced to chess by watching xQc. So, no, it is not good, nor especially bad for chess. Is it good for Hikaru? Definitely. It is good for Hikaru, Botez, maybe Naroditsky or whoever else will manage to catch a ride on the hype train. Because they get more money. Alexandra's channel is now worth like 50 times more than 2 months ago, and market for coaching will be probably bigger now. Likewise, it is good for chess.com, which has all these guys on a payroll under contracts that forbid them streaming while playing on any other platform than chess.com Community... Well, it's hard to define who exactly constitutes a community, but if we are talking about people who were playing chess and watching GMHikaru or BotezLive 2 months ago, it doesn't seem to me they got anything out of it. It was a community of somewhat similarly-minded people, there was at least some space for meaningful conversations in twitch-chat. Absolute majority was actually somewhat into chess (probably like 1100-1800 ELO) and there was a nice homely environment. Now all the trash previously contained within xQc's channel is spilled all over the place, it's just mindless spamming emotes and such. 50% of Hikaru's content is now "reacting to xQc doing stupid shit". 700-ELO player who at least attempts to think before making a move is now "naturally talented player and definitely not a newbie". I mean, honestly, it just isn't enjoyable anymore. It isn't the place these people used to come for. And people who got introduced to chess because they were Forsen's of xQc's viewers didn't actually get much either, because they don't really care about the subject. If xQc was suddenly an avid crossword-puzzle sover, they would obsess over crossword-puzzles all the same. It doesn't matter.

zitterbewegung 6y ago

Man I should just start coding on a twitch account for my side projects. I can't go to meetups anymore for obvious reasons and I have been putting it off.

jbj 6y ago

I wonder if chess is actually the first ever online game. My granddad used to play chess over his rotary land line. Some enthusiasts must have tried a game over telegram/morse or other technology.

redog 6y ago
What's considered online? Was it pong that became the first video game? Chess over landline kind of sounds more online than pong.
fenwick67 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correspondence_chess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correspondence_chess
swilliamsio 6y ago
Chess has been played by mail for centuries. It wouldn't be surprising to me at all if it was also the first ever online game.
Tiltowait-- 6y ago
Diplomacy was played by mail since shortly after the game was invented in the 1950s. It formed an important part of what today we call geek culture. It overlapped with wargaming and miniatures gaming and directly led to the creation of Dungeons and Dragons, and from thence computer gaming. All but forgotten today, though.

pritambarhate 6y ago

There is a parallel explosion of Chess Streaming in India on YouTube. During the lockdown, a stand-up comedian Samay Raina [1] started streaming Chess with some other famous comedians. None of them are strong players. But the content was so funny that quite a few people started watching. Later Samay became friends with India No. 2 Chess Super GM Vidit Gujrathi [2] and together they have created quite a bit of following on YouTube. In one of his videos, Agadmator [3] said that Indians sign-ups on Chess.com have gone through the roof. However, most of the content is in Hindi. Here are some videos which are in (mostly) English, Vidit's trash talk with anther Indian GM Baskaran Adhiban[4], Vidit Playing Serious Chess Blitz tournament on Chess.com [5] [1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAov2BBv1ZJav0c_yHEciAw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAov2BBv1ZJav0c_yHEciAw [2] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpjTx5WsF4yqyvGIYY8nuVg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpjTx5WsF4yqyvGIYY8nuVg [3] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL5YbN5WLFD8dLIegT5QAbA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL5YbN5WLFD8dLIegT5QAbA [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjaDxN5xLHs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjaDxN5xLHs [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJeM-TBPqI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJeM-TBPqI0

yewenjie 6y ago
Personal opinion : I absolutely hate Samay Raina's utter nonsense commentary, which is cringe at worst, and irrelevant at best.
- Tiltowait-- 6y ago
  Lots of people like a stream of consciousness nonsense. It gives them a good feeling. They're not so much listening to the man talk as they are having a feeling of social interaction. Of course, there is no interaction as it's all one way, but our brains are fooled quite well by it and the pleasing chemicals released by the experience are quite real.

tobyhinloopen 6y ago

Grandmain.

DeonPenny 6y ago

I've been watching the POG chess tournament. It's honestly so fascinating how quickly it spread through the twitch gaming community. I guess gaming is gaming and there a clear reason why chess has always been popular.

bluecalm 6y ago

I think what made Hikaru a controversial and not always the most liked classical player makes a perfect combination for a popular streamer. Quick mind, sometimes moody, easily tilted, very competitive and sometimes opinionated. I wasn't his biggest fan when he was top 5 classical player but today I am a happy subscriber to his stream and always cheer for him in rapid/blitz tournaments.

mattbillenstein 6y ago
I think he's growing into it - seems like his streams have become much looser and fun over time - I wouldn't have thought a super-gm could do chess content and not be super serious about it all the time.

lawn 6y ago

Is there something similar for Go? I do like chess but Go just appeals to me more.

munchbunny 6y ago
Not in the sense of trending on Twitch, but there's plenty of places where you can play Go online.
jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
There are some good twitch go streamers, but it hasn't blown up in popularity like chess did recently. Check out https://www.twitch.tv/battsgo https://www.twitch.tv/battsgo for a go streamer that's pretty approachable, including doing a "basics" stream weekly. The Go world could learn a bit from how this chess boom is streamlining the presentation and terminology. The english go world tends to use mangled versions of the japanese strategic terms, and tbh, they aren't particularly helpful for learning.

jack_pp 6y ago

I got into chess a couple of months ago and it has been fun but I don't understand how people watch Hikaru play 3min chess. It's very hard for a beginner to wrap their head around what his moves mean. I'd have to pause and think every move through for a couple of minutes if I really wanted to understand. I think people watch more for what he says while playing than the actual game

twox2 6y ago
Check out Eric Rosen on youtube, he has great videos where he plays blitz chess and talks through his thought process. It's very helpful.
- abnry 6y ago
  Eric Rosen is the Bob Ross of chess.
  - twox2 6y ago
    Agreed! So soft spoken.
mattbillenstein 6y ago
Also some of ChessNetwork's content on youtube - the slower games in particular - 10m + I'll say also if you want to improve at chess, you need to play slower time controls to build that pattern recognition and "muscle memory" up. Blitz is fun, but it's hard to really think deep and learn a lot.

29athrowaway 6y ago

For chess, lichess.org is excellent. For shogi there's 81dojo.com and for Go there's online-go.com and shin.gokgs.com

imgabe 6y ago

I recently got back into chess after discovering there's a huge wealth of chess videos on YouTube. (Probably news to no one I know) It's great to be able to learn about a new opening or trap or whatnot then jump into an online game and hopefully try it out.

mkchoi212 6y ago

This is awesome. Chess becoming main stream again as people bored in quarantine are looking for new brain engaging activities.

pranit10 6y ago

I am so happy to see Hackernews users overlap with twitch.

sitkack 6y ago

What a wonderful hack! Praxis. Now if we can get Nascar on to e-sports (large mosfet kind).

hiop 6y ago

"grandmain"

SubiculumCode 6y ago

Hey Guys. It's John. Gonna play some 3 0 on Lichess. I'm drinking herbal tea, and I've got a pot of MJB brewing, cuz its good when it should. Okay, let's play a scandi, #TeamScandi. (•‿•)

dilandau 6y ago

What chess engine do you all recommend for gnome-chess? I see glaurung, fairy-max, hoi-chess, gnuchess?

Buttons840 6y ago

Aside: I saw new beauty in chess recently in a game with a queen vs a rook, knight, and pawn in the end game. The game lasted for over 40 moves in this state before ending in a draw. Chess engine analysis had the game as dead even. Chess may be a bit more complicated and arbitrary than Go, but seeing how the pieces very exactly fit their 1, 3, 5, and 9 point values allowed me to see the mathematical beauty of the game for the first time.

krick 6y ago
They don't "exactly fit their 1, 3, 5, and 9 point values" at all. Piece value is depending on the stage of the game and even the exact position, and even averaged value estimation fluctuates wildly. For example, for Stockfish it's 4.16, 4.41, 6.625, 12.92 (N, B, R, Q). And for endgames too, a queen vs 2 rooks may be winning for either side or a draw depending on a position.
- Buttons840 6y ago
  You mean stockfish is programmed to consider a queen as being worth almost 13 points? Granted, the pieces naive value matters little compared to the tree search stockfish does.
  - krick 6y ago
    Yes, stockfish is programmed to consider a queen as being worth "almost 13 points", and no, "naïve" piece values have absolutely crucial, primarily role to do the search and complete the mission.

zacharycohn 6y ago

In middle school I started playing chess at a local club that met at a Barnes and Noble. I was 1/3 of the age of the next youngest person and I doubt I ever won a single game, but I learned so much. My favorite person at the club, and I tried to play with him as often as I could, was this boisterous old man who would drop movie one-liners constantly. He'd take a pawn with his knight and bellow "I HAVE YOU NOW." I'd occasionally grab one of his rooks, "Great kid, but don't get cocky!"

nazgulnarsil 6y ago

play crazyhouse, make chess fun again.