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> Since taking a basic multi-vitamin is good anyway.... Could you elaborate on that? I thought that taking vitamin supplements without a recommendation from a
by Foivos 6y ago
> Since taking a basic multi-vitamin is good anyway....
Could you elaborate on that? I thought that taking vitamin supplements without a recommendation from a doctor is just a way to have very expensive piss. Most of the things that get in, are removed from the body without being absorbed.
- ses1984 6y agoIf you're deficient in something, your body probably up-regulates absorption. You can get higher quality vitamins with forms that are more easily absorbed, for example chelated magnesium instead of magnesium oxide. That said, I thought the evidence actually pointed to higher all cause mortality in people who take vitamins.
- raverbashing 6y ago> I thought the evidence actually pointed to higher all cause mortality in people who take vitamins. Citation absolutely needed The caveat is excessive consumption of Vitamin A (and maybe others), in some specific circumstances. Keyword: excessive
- ses1984 6y agoSee my other reply please.
- partyboat1586 6y agoIf you have a study that shows higher all cause mortality please link it. My hypothesis would be that healthy people don't take vitamins because they never saw the need, putting already sick people in the second category. I doubt that taking vitamins can actually do much harm in low doses.
- ses1984 6y agoI just Googled "vitamins lead to higher all cause mortality." First result: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111010173019.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111010173019.h... >After adjustment, use of multivitamins, vitamin B6, folic acid, iron, magnesium, zinc and copper, were all associated with increased risk of death in the study population. The top three links showed association between beta carotene supplementation and risk of death. A little further down, a study showing "higher plasma concentrations of vitamin B12 were associated with a 25% increased adjusted risk of all-cause mortality per 1-SD increase" https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2758742 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... >The use of multivitamins overall was associated with 2.4% increased absolute risk for death (hazard ratio [HR], 1.06; 95% confidence interval, 1.02 - 1.10). https://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/751462#:~:text=The%20use%20of%20multivitamins%20overall,substantially%20between%201986%20and%202004 https://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/751462#:~:text=The%20us.... The conclusion I personally draw from all this is: don't take a multi vitamin. Don't take any vitamins unless I have a good reason like a tested deficiency. If I think I could benefit from a supplement then I try to increase it in my diet instead.
- raverbashing 6y agoThe risk of excessive iron is known and not new If you read that link you'll see the findings for iron and calcium were replicated. (Not to mention this article is basically referencing a different article which is somewhere else, so we're missing the context) The B12 issue, as the own article mentions, is not necessarily connected to a dietary excess consumption > Participants within the highest quartile of vitamin B12 plasma concentrations (>455.41 pg/mL) were more likely to be older and have higher BMI and blood pressure.
- ses1984 6y ago>The risk of excessive iron is known and not new OK so that's one mineral they called out from a long list that includes multi vitamins, B6, and magnesium, very common recommendations. What about the rest? Point taken about the B12 study. What about https://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/751462#:~:text=The%20use%20of%20multivitamins%20overall,substantially%20between%201986%20and%202004 https://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/751462#:~:text=The%20us...
- raverbashing 6y agoAn ICU is more expensive than expensive piss But sure, you could be extra sure that your Vit-D/Zinc/Mg (and other vitamins) levels are low by going to the doctor now, doing an exam and waiting for the results to come back. Or you could go through your diet and estimate your nutritional intake and see if anything is missing (a lot of apps do that calculation)
- macintux 6y ago> ...and see if anything is missing With the caveat that (word of mouth, not researched) the FDA recommendations on vitamin D are substantially too low.
- 2muchcoffeeman 6y agoI agree, you don’t need a supplement. I get regular checkups. I’ve never had a deficiency in any vitamin except D.
- partyboat1586 6y agoVitamin D deficiency is very common especially in people who spend their daytime hours inside and also in dark skinned people living in northern latitudes. In the UK doctors recommend everyone takes a vitamin D supplement in the winter.
- pbhjpbhj 6y agoI've never heard this, where is it recommended?
- partyboat1586 6y agoMy Doctor told me. Also see the NHS page https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-....
- pbhjpbhj 6y agoVery useful, thank you.
- nunb 6y agoThis is simply a result of how vitamin D is manufactured, and the lack of sunlight in northern latitudes.
- pbhjpbhj 6y agoIt was specifically the NHS advice I was questioning, I'm aware of the basic cause. Thanks.
- DanBC 6y ago
- ChrisRR 6y agoI don't know what you count as very expensive. Here in the UK, daily multivitamins are like £3 for 100
- MichaelApproved 6y agoOne issue with vitamin is they don’t get absorbed well without certain foods. Worse yet, some foods could even block absorption. Calcium absorption is one of the trickier vitamins to get tight. If you’re taking vitamins specifically because you’re deficient, make sure you’re eating complimentary foods with them.
- James_Henry 6y agoDisease is also something that can block absorption which I feel a lot of people overlook. If you are vitamin D deficient, that may not be just because you don't get enough sun or need to take pills. This could be a sign of a kidney problem. If you are magnesium deficient, maybe it is a sign of a kidney problem. If you are B12 deficient, maybe it is a sign of a kidney problem. If you have a normal diet and you have deficiencies, don't just look to supplements.
- partyboat1586 6y agoMost people are deficient in one vitamin or another. Take magnesium as an example, 50% of people in the US are deficient[0]. Get your blood work done and get targeted supplements. [0]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786912/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786912/
- saiya-jin 6y ago> very expensive piss What I do after working out (say 4x/week) or after hard day in the mountains during weekends is to take 1/2 a tablet of multivitamin after big meal. So around 5-7x/week. That tablet has 100% of all the vitamins and 30% of the minerals. So I get 50% of vitamins, 15% of the minerals with a lot of fluids and fats, after proper effort on the body. This mix should be helping the body regenerate all the damage done by the workout. I can't get any overdose or even come close to it, unless I would be eating some very specific food like some seafood (and then overdose would come from it anyway, regardless of multivitamins). The multivitamins I buy (cheap Swiss ones) are cca 3.5$ per 20 tablets, giving the price per dosage/piss somewhere around 8 cents. I certainly have much more expensive pissing activities even from cheapest beers, sodas (which I don't generally drink) or basically any liquid apart from tap water.
- Nursie 6y agoAmericans have the most expensive piss in the world. Yes, unless you have good reason to think you have a deficiency, supplements are a waste of time and money. And even if you do have reason to think you might have a deficiency there are often better (usually dietary) ways to address it.
- partyboat1586 6y agoAmericans have expensive piss because of the expensive pharmacological drugs you take. Vitamins are very cheap.
- Nursie 6y agoWhat's this "you" business? I'm not American. Vitamins absolutely contribute to this, and many/most you take will be excreted again.
- yomly 6y agoThis is a misnomer according to a recent guest on the Joe Rogan podcast. Granted that might not be the best source, I reflected on that and the chemistry makes sense. Vitamins primarily will leach out via osmosis. Osmosis works by gradients. This probably means an exponential decay of absorption relative to concentration and as you consume more, your body will waste progressively more and uptake will be less efficient per unit mass. But it's not boolean/binary - your body doesn't suddenly stop everything after an arbitrary cutoff. There's an elegance to this - it means there is a lot of leeway in consumption so it is hard to overdose. But it also means that if you "need" to increase bioavailability of a water soluble vitamin, you can simply consume more orally and it will increase. It just becomes progressively more wasteful to do via that means. (IV is more efficient in this manner) So I suppose wasteful is not the same as pointless/useless
- partyboat1586 6y agoDr Rhonda Patrick was the guest if anyone is interested. Worth watching with paper and pen (or digital equivalent).
- nradov 6y agoShow notes are here. https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/jre-1474 https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/jre-1474
- 0-_-0 6y ago2 interesting references to vitamin D studies: 00:29:32 - In the Philippines, every standard deviation increase in serum vitamin D was associated with an 8 times more likely chance to have a mild rather than severe COVID-19 outcome and a 20 times more likely chance to have a mild rather than critical outcome. 00:30:37 - In Indonesia, 98.9% of patients with vitamin D deficiency died, 88% of patients with vitamin D insufficiency died but only 4% of patients with sufficient vitamin D died.
- nradov 6y ago
- ageitgey 6y agoIt depends on where you live. Some places in northern latitudes such as the UK recommend everyone take daily Vitamin D supplements due to low UV exposure in the late-fall/winter/early-spring. See https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-... As far as if that means you take that as a multi-vitamin pill vs D3 supplements alone I guess is up to the individual. But either option only costs a few dollars/pounds. Maybe I was a little loose with language saying multi-vitamin.
- Foivos 6y agoThis is a known / common deficiency. But does it make sense to blindly take Vitamin C for example?