14 ms·

Why we have so many problems with our teeth

281 points by lelf 6y ago

jbverschoor 6y ago
I read somewhere that the crookedness off for example Japanese people is caused by the lack of from food. You need to chew and have some resistance, otherwise you turn from a monkey back into a fish
sneak 6y ago
There is ample evidence supporting the theory that the standard western diet high in refined carbohydrates is the root cause or at least primary contributing factor of many of our society’s most common health disorders. I heartily encourage everyone to try radically different (but nutritionally complete) diets for a month or two, if for no other reason than to see how your body and brain responds. Go vegan, try keto/lchf, try carnivore, try soylent, try sated. See what, if anything, it gets you. I like spending 80% or so of my life in ketosis (usually for 2-8 weeks at a time), due to the many small changes it causes in my body and mind. One of the interesting side effects (for me) is a significant reduction in dental buildup, and after a few weeks of not eating sugar, much of the existing buildup (if I haven’t had a professional cleaning recently) will spontaneously crumble and detach. It surprised me when it happened.
- Simulacra 6y ago
  Not to mention sugar. Societies that are not as heavily ....invested as western diets are in sugar seem to have much better teeth.
  - themdonuts 6y ago
    I've recently realized how Indians in general have such perfect teeth. Some of my Indian colleagues even say they've never been to a dentist in their life. It seems like anecdotal evidence supporting how diets are that important to teeth health.
    - sumedh 6y ago
      Indians love sweets, most Indian sweets are loaded with sugar. Some sweets are literally served with sugar syrup which is just sugar and water. Since we are talking about anecdotes, most of my Indian friends have had dental issues didn't matter if they were veg or non vegetarians.
    - belltaco 6y ago
      Turmeric/Curcumin has a protective effect against gingivitis and is even as effective as a prescription mouthwash against it.
- tvanantwerp 6y ago
  Since going keto, my dental health has improved a lot. I've never received such praise from my dentists! Giving the bad bacteria no carbs to feed on has done wonders.
phnofive 6y ago
All that talk of the history of orthodontics and surgery and medical approaches were left out... too cheap, I guess: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5800179/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5800179/
Simulacra 6y ago
Some anecdotal evidence: In my volunteer work with the homeless, and prisoners, dental care is painfully, ridiculously absent. As much as I am opposed to the idea of universal health care, I think we can all 100% get behind universal dental care.
- metabeard 6y ago
  Can you please explain how you're opposed to universal health care but 100% behind universal dental care? These seem at odds.
  - marcell 6y ago
    Not GP but dental care is a lot cheaper than medical
    - nightfly 6y ago
      Maybe on average, but dental care can suck when you need a lot done. Root canals, crowns, and implants are expensive. And dentists often expect payment in full up-front before doing any work.
      - Simulacra 6y ago
        But it's a definitive payment. Medical bills from hospitals and doctors offices are often padded, or somehow magically they grow in cost. Dental bills don't. It's generally a one-time thing.
    - sumedh 6y ago
      Australia has free medical but not dental care since its expensive.
  - Simulacra 6y ago
    I don't want to pay for your decades of poor health, because your poor decisions will lead to a lifetime of expensive care. However, dental care is a finite expense. Replace all the teeth in your mouth and it's still a finite expense. Since when has "health care" ever had a finite expense?
eastbayjake 6y ago
The Hacker News community spends a lot of time discussing the surprising importance of our gut biome -- this article does an amazing job bringing that biome all the way to the start of the line. Unsurprisingly, the biome in our mouths has enormous importance as well.
- UnbugMe 6y ago
  For anyone interested in microbiomes of the human body, gut or otherwise, 'Bacteriology of Humans - An Ecological Perspective' is a great book.
themdonuts 6y ago
Reading this made me stand back up from bed and go floss.
- Simulacra 6y ago
  Interesting that every so often there will be a news report about the ineffectiveness of flossing. i.e. from 2016: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/health/flossing-teeth-cavities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/health/flossing-teeth-cav...
  - ebg13 6y ago
    Flossing doesn't need to be "effective" to be worthwhile. All you have to do is not floss for a long time and then floss and sniff the floss.
    - Etheryte 6y ago
      This is actually what got me into flossing daily. I also think dentists doing this to patients, that is flossing their teeth and then having them sniff the floss, would be a lot more effective than simply telling people they should floss.
      - ebg13 6y ago
        > dentists doing this to patients I'm dying. "SNIFF IT! SNIIFFFFFFF IIIIIIITTTTTT!" TBH, that sounds like assault.
      - Simulacra 6y ago
        Oh snap I'm totally with ya. I floss just to keep stuff out of my teeth.. I try to avoid sniffing things, I leave that to the politicians.
  - a_imho 6y ago
    It is the diet. It is genetic. You don't brush long enough. You time your brushing wrong. You use a too soft/too hard brush. Electric brush is needed. It is your toothpaste, too much/too little fluoride. All problems are caused/prevented by flossing. Mouth wash is the one true answer. Dental care feels like oncology, everything treats and causes problems at the same time.
ebg13 6y ago
I have a dream of one day being able to just replace _all_ of my teeth at once with one solid porcelain+titanium prosthetic without any interstitial cracks or crevices. No more painful cavities. No more cracked teeth. No more need for floss or toothpicks, because there aren't any gaps for food to get stuck in. And it could be trivially sculpted to still have the same outward appearance of bullshit normal teeth.
- Simulacra 6y ago
  So...Jaws.[1] [1.]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaws_(James_Bond) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaws_(James_Bond)
  - ebg13 6y ago
    Except shaped and veneered to look and function normally.
    - Simulacra 6y ago
      ....Can I get the name of your dentist?
- tomerico 6y ago
  Teeth problems are easy to fix (and prevent). The serious problems that come with age are with the gums. These problems become worse with implants.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- ip26 6y ago
  Implants are a lot like that. The remaining hurdle is that gums actually bond to the enamel of natural teeth, which wards off gum disease somewhat. Gums don't bond to current prosthetics, so good cleaning is allegedly even more imperative as bacteria can get in between the gum & prosthetic. Hopefully not impossible to fix- osseointegration, for example, works- but currently unsolved. Maybe one day we'll figure out how grow a fresh layer of enamel on a prosthetic in the lab, and maybe gums will happily bond to that.
akersten 6y ago
Part of it is genetics too - I've been cursed with deeply-pitted chewing surfaces that are prone to cavities. A sibling with the same diet was not, and has never needed a filling. One of my biggest regrets in life is getting amalgam fillings as a kid. Not that I would have known any better, or been able to protest it (they were the cheap and affordable option, after all). But knowing that a mercury compound is in my mouth 24/7 is not comforting. I am reassured by studies indicating there are no toxic effects[0], but it's still one of those backburner things that one thinks about every once in a while. This fear alone has done more to motivate me to floss and brush properly than anything else. Luckily, I haven't needed a filling in almost a decade - but if I do, it will not be an amalgam one. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3388771/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3388771/
- jasonpeacock 6y ago
  There's also mercury in vaccines. But thanks to the miracle of chemistry, you're safe. Just like the chlorine in salt doesn't kill you.
  - cyphar 6y ago
    Mercury (or rather, Thiomersal) hasn't been used in the vast majority of vaccines since the 90s. It was completely safe as far as we know, but was removed as a precautionary measure during a push to remove all sources of mercury from food and drugs.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    You're using a bad argument. Dental amalgam literally contains elemental mercury: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalgam_(dentistry)#Composition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalgam_(dentistry)#Compositio... That alone is cause for concern, although it does not mean it's necessarily dangerous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_amalgam_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_amalgam_controversy
- phyzome 6y ago
  Amalgam also requires larger fillings, meaning they remove more healthy tooth to fit it in. And the tooth has to be undercut a bit, since it doesn't bond like composite does. So amalgam also increases the chances of a tooth cracking later on and having to be replaced with a crown. But! Composite also contains BPA or similar. So there's that.
xenospn 6y ago
Am I the only person around without any cavities or painful dentist memories?
- airstrike 6y ago
  Never had a cavity in my life, for some reason, and it's not like I'm OCD about my teeth. I just brush multiple times a day, floss less often than that
  - xenospn 6y ago
    I brush twice a day and never floss.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - tanzbaer 6y ago
    What's your diet like?
    - airstrike 6y ago
      As a kid, kind of ate whatever, including sugary foods, but I'm not from the US so back then I think I ate less sugar than Americans just as a function of how much sugar there is in American food Nowadays I try to avoid eating added sugars (i.e. drink my coffee black, no soda, rarely eat deserts), but otherwise eat regular food and try to eat "real meals", like my grandparents would eat when they were my age
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  Nope. My partner is one of your kind. Perfect teeth. Bloody perfect. She can do away with brushing for a month at a time if she wanted and won’t have a problem. Her dentist has told her multiple times she should model her teeth haha. Me—and whatever I inherited on top of my B12/Iron deficiencies—I feel it if I miss a day or two. So many problems since I was young. And without proper orthodontic help in health insurance or our public health care my parents couldn’t afford much of the work I needed when I was young. Don’t get me started on outdated rural dentists and their torture methods... I mean... faulty anesthetic. You are a lucky person indeed.
ip26 6y ago
This has been popping up in the news periodically for a few years now. However, as a parent of young children, I'm still trying to figure out the next step. That is, what to feed them that is nutritious, tasty, and also works the jaw. Raw carrots and overcooked meat are not tolerated for long. Even if I don't serve them mush, al dente pasta and tender-cooked meats are quite soft. Home-made jerky and artisan-style bread (with a really tough crust) are the best I've come up with so far. I did have an insatiable desire to chew on gum for a year or so while a teenager. In retrospect I wonder if it was innate. Didn't save my wisdom teeth though.
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  Rhubarb
  - ip26 6y ago
    Raw I presume?
    - triyambakam 6y ago
      Isn't it poisonous raw?
      - Ericson2314 6y ago
        Just the leaves
    - Ericson2314 6y ago
      Yeah. I finally tried out of curiosity. Very fun. Was disappointed I only had 4 stalks.
- smithza 6y ago
  A parent of a youngin' also, I am realizing there is balance needed. Technological prowess is part of the balance... we have orthodontic abilities to correct our teeth when tough food is lacking... and rub teeth with fluoride twice a day to help offset enamel breakdown.
bsima 6y ago
The article posits the "soft foods" explanation for our poor teeth, but there is another, which starts with the research of Weston A Price: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price Price studied traditional cultures and observed that, when traditional diets were followed, people had perfect teeth. When an industrialized, Western diet was followed, tooth decay resulted. His book has the evidence, and is an easy read that you can browse in a few evenings. Edit: I found the whole book free online: http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.... His research has been taken up by various doctors in the "evolutionary medicine" subfield, here are some introductory lectures: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4L0PzprcRI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4L0PzprcRI - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ck0A5oKjU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ck0A5oKjU - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCPwD59sDvg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCPwD59sDvg Those are from the Ancestral Health Symposium, for which I have been a (volunteer) organizer for the last few years.
- ebg13 6y ago
  The same Weston A Price? https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm-weston-prices-appalling-legacy/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm-weston-prices-appalling...
  - centimeter 6y ago
    That site is the definition of midwit pulp. Citing rationalwiki, referring to raw meat as "dangerous", vast overconfidence compared to the actual predictive power available. Sure, WAPF has some wacky stuff, but they also have some obviously good advice, and for most of the disputable claims they make, we don't actually have especially good evidence that they're wrong, so it's not something I'm going to waste energy arguing about.
    - ebg13 6y ago
      > That site is the definition of midwit pulp. You mean the WAPF site, right? > Sure, WAPF has some wacky stuff, but they also have some obviously good advice, and for most of the disputable claims they make, we don't actually have especially good evidence that they're wrong Here's WAPF recommending homeopathy for alcoholism, sinus infections, and cancer: https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy-and-alcoholism/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy-and-al... https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy/honk-if-you-hate-sinus-infections/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy/honk-i... https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy/dont-believe-homeopathy-place-cancer-treatment-think/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy/dont-b... Here's WAPF arguing against vaccines, calling Bill Gates (what?) a "delusional global dictator" (double what?) and saying that if you do have to give a child a vaccine that you should "keep him quiet for at least 24 hours after a shot" (triple what?) https://www.westonaprice.org/vaccinations/ https://www.westonaprice.org/vaccinations/
maerF0x0 6y ago
A couple of other reading: * https://elemental.medium.com/why-is-the-internet-obsessed-with-this-cult-toothpaste-963dda060501 https://elemental.medium.com/why-is-the-internet-obsessed-wi... * https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/upshot/you-probably-dont-need-dental-x-rays-every-year.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/upshot/you-probably-dont-...
bradlys 6y ago
Interesting. So, it seems to be beneficial to have children chew on hard things when small to develop a larger jaw so that their teeth don't crowd. I guess chewing on ice would be beneficial in this sense. As long as they're chewing on it with teeth that will fall out as to not worry about damaging them... I wonder what the aesthetic differences would be though. In a western beauty sense, I can imagine having a larger jaw being somewhat preferential for men but for women - isn't it not? Would it be enough to notice? Wish I had known this growing up. Ironically, I felt like I did eat some hard foods but I wonder how much you have to eat in order for it to have a real effect.
- b45 6y ago
  Growing up in Nigeria, my grandmother encouraged me to chew bones and consume bone marrow. It's quite common and also a badge of honor as a kid if you can open a bottle of pop with your teeth. I often get compliments on my teeth and have no issues as an adult.
- centimeter 6y ago
  It's not about chewing on something hard, but about pulling on something strong (away from your face). E.g. ripping chunks off a piece of meat. This will have the desired effect on their jaw, making them both healthier and more attractive.
  - bradlys 6y ago
    > and more attractive. I guess that'll vary on your definition of what's more attractive.
jonplackett 6y ago
Fascinating - but was I the only one who had to go brush their teeth half way through reading?
jaggederest 6y ago
I was fairly disappointed when Oragenics abandoned their modified streptococcus treatment, designed to replace the most harmful bacteria in the human mouth with a non-damaging one. https://www.oragenics.com/technology-pipeline/lbp/smart https://www.oragenics.com/technology-pipeline/lbp/smart Last I heard, the few people who had tried the treatment are still completely free of decay and gum issues, but it's been a long time and there's no follow up, sadly.
- starpilot 6y ago
  I think there should be a serious look at whether dental industry is preventing these treatments from seeing the light, or at least quietly and deliberately ignoring them. Xylitol has almost definite benefits but most dentists have never heard of it.
  - triyambakam 6y ago
    I first heard about Xylitol at natural food stores and from this book - "Kiss your dentist goodbye" (written by a dentist) - though like you say, no dentist that I've been to in person has mentioned it [1] https://www.amazon.com/Kiss-Your-Dentist-Goodbye-Yourself/dp/1632991195 https://www.amazon.com/Kiss-Your-Dentist-Goodbye-Yourself/dp...
    - starpilot 6y ago
      Oh wow, that's interesting. Looks like her routine is here: https://drelliecom.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/zellies-cmcsbooklet-2016-spreads.pdf https://drelliecom.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/zellies-cmcsb... I may try this.
  - derefr 6y ago
    > Xylitol has almost definite benefits but most dentists have never heard of it. I mean, it's in a lot of toothpastes and mouthwashes. Certainly it could be in more things, but dentists do recommend those things it's in (without understanding exactly what makes one better than another, instead going on dentistry-association studies of the observed effects of various products. Presumably the scientists doing said studies know what xylitol is.) It's hard to just put xylitol in regular foods, though, because people feed random foods to their pets all the time, and xylitol kills dogs. So it only ends up marketed in the form of things you would never think to allow your pets to have in the first place. (Like mouthwash, or gum, or mints.) You can certainly take your consumption into your own hands, though, and just buy a bag of xylitol to use in place of sucrose for cooking/baking/putting in your coffee/etc. (That is, if you don't have a dog.)
sjg007 6y ago
We have bionators and other tools to correct jaws.. not sure why those wouldn’t work.
redka 6y ago
What about the tongue? After reading something strange in a book about meditation, where it said I should keep my tongue at the roof of my mouth, I got curious. Actually I was baffled because I couldn't do it. I literally could not keep a significant part of my tongue stuck to the roof of my mouth without significant effort and actually strain. I did a survey between my friends and only one of them (my brother) actually kept the tongue in the described position naturally. Surprisingly (this is highly anecdotal, but still interesting) he's the only person that I know that doesn't have any teeth issues - only once he'd visited a dentist with a small cavity. This got me researching and there's actually a British orthodontist (Dr. Mike Mew) who actively pushes the idea that we should keep our tongue at the roof of our mouth and that it's actually our natural tongue position that _would_ develop if we kept our ancestral dietary habits, e.g. chewing hard foods like meat from since we were little.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  Wow this is the first time I've heard this. Anecdotally, I have poor dental hygiene habits compared to my wife and family, but despite consuming the same diet as them, I have had no dental trouble and only one cavity in my life, which was back in my teens. We often joke about how unfair this is. My tongue naturally rests on the roof of my mouth.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  Wow this is the first time I've heard this. Anecdotally, I have relatively less than perfect dental hygiene habits compared to my wife and family, but despite consuming the same diet as them, I have had no dental trouble and only one cavity in my life, which was back in my teens. We often joke about how unfair this is. My tongue naturally rests on the roof of my mouth.
- arm 6y ago
  That’s quite interesting! When my mouth is closed, at least half of my tongue is always naturally touching the roof of my mouth. Despite my oral hygiene not being the best (I brush my teeth every day, but rarely floss), I’ve never had a cavity (I did have to get my wisdom teeth removed though). I notice it’s much easier for my mouth to produce saliva when my tongue is touching the roof of my mouth, which definitely helps (quoting the linked article: “saliva buffers the teeth against acid attack and bathes them in calcium and phosphate to remineralize their surface”).
rotrux 6y ago
A)Teeth are sorta like regular ol' bones 'cept they're on the outside of your body and their purpose is to grind things. B) You don't really need all of them to survive + evolution. C) Humans live a really long time now and we just expect our mashy-grinders to keep up? D) Enamel doesn't like sugar which is in everything. Bam. Scientific American here I come.
leafmeal 6y ago
Recently I was wondering why we have so many mouth problems. Teeth are often misaligned, wisdom teeth need to be removed, TMJ (clicking / popping jaw) is extremely common. After researching, I came to the same conclusion that this article mentions at the end. Essentially we need to eat harder foods while developing in order to increase jaw size and strength. The article touches on sleep apnoea as well. Apparently this can become a huge problem for developing children if their pallet is under-formed. I think this is a big public health issue, and I think it makes sense to start some kind of large scale public health campaign to inform the public and avoid all of these dental issues. There's a book about this, the introduction is online here https://www.sup.org/books/extra/?id=29626&i=Introduction.html https://www.sup.org/books/extra/?id=29626&i=Introduction.htm...
woodandsteel 6y ago
The article gives us yet another set of reasons for avoiding the modern processed diet and sticking with unprocessed foods.
mc32 6y ago
Somewhat related was something on NPR the other day[1]. Diet has affected mouth morphology such that about 90% of people are affected by it and it’s expressed in crooked teeth, poor sleep and other things. Looks like diets over the last 400 years have had dramatic impact on human health mouth shape. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/27/862963172/how-the-lost-art-of-breathing-can-impact-sleep-and-resilience https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/27/8629631...
senectus1 6y ago
I was born without wisdom teeth. According to my dentist its becoming more common and considered and a part of the evolutionary process.
kyle_morris_ 6y ago
I read somewhere that people in recent history have begun to mouth breath heavily compared to folks living before the industrial revolution. A drier mouth has to impact the biome in your mouth I would presume, for better or worse. Mouth breathing could have a lot of other disadvantages, such as sleep apnea, as mentioned in the article. Mouth breathing obviously doesn’t cause teeth crowding but I’m wondering how significant factor it is in overall dental health.
- vczf 6y ago
  I think there's a link to tooth decay. If you're mouth breathing your teeth aren't being coated in saliva, so they can't be remineralized. I read that distance runners can develop dental problems because of mouth dryness combined with sugary energy gels.
- elric 6y ago
  Mouth breathing doesn't cause sleep apnea. Seems more like a comorbidity. Allergies play a huge role in mouth breathing, and their prevalence seems to be on the rise, so maybe that's the common factor?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
eth0up 6y ago
Tired, so I'll skip my own interpretation - but I've become convinced that hydroxyapatite is overlooked. I subscribe to the importance of vitamin K too, although my experience with hydroxyapatite has been tangibly beneficial. I find it odd that it's as uncommon as it is, eg I've never seen it on a store shelf. Again, I'm tired, so I'm dropping an unvetted lazily found link on the topic below: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4252862/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4252862/
boyadjian 6y ago
Sugar is a plague. I have totally eliminated sugar in my eating habits, and I don't miss it. Never give sugar to a child, especially if you want to reward him.
crazygringo 6y ago
Is there any actual evidence, though, that soft foods have led to smaller jaws (and therefore crowded teeth)? When you look at traditional cooking all around the world, I just don't see any evidence that diets today are overwhelmingly "softer". When you think of traditional diets, you think of boiled vegetables, milled grains made into porridge or bread, grilled fish and meat, and so on. I don't see any evidence that traditional diets were harder to chew in any way. People have been cooking and boiling foods to make them soft for many thousands of years. And plenty of people today are raised on crusty chewy bread, chewy steak sandwiches, salads with chewy greens (kale), and so on. Not everybody, sure -- but those people (like me) still need to get braces terribly often. So while there certainly appears to be evidence that teeth crowding has gotten worse, it's not clear that the hypothesis that small jaws are caused by soft food has been proven at all, or is even plausible.
lenkite 6y ago
Human Teeth are terrible. The fact that we cannot regrow enamel, considering our life-span is a ridiculous, evolutionary design mistake. So wish we were Polyphyodont. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphyodont https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphyodont
- decebalus1 6y ago
  Why is it an evolutionary design mistake? It's perfect from an evolutionary standpoint. They get you through sexual maturity, reproduction and plenty of time to see after your offspring. What happens afterwards is bonus time on the planet, it's free-for-all everything goes wrt to your body. Evolution didn't 'design' us to last that long..
kaybe 6y ago
Everyone, please be aware that if you brush too hard/wrong you can wear down your gums which will be very troublesome from middle age up! Get a softer toothbrush if you are sensitive!
dTal 6y ago
I'm surprised that in nearly 200 comments, nobody has pointed out that hominid jaw evolution has been trending smaller for millions of years. Problems such as crowding and malformed wisdom teeth are a symptom of an in-progress adaptation - it is easier for evolution to change the size of the jaw than the number of teeth. Broadly, the issues with our mouths all fall under the umbrella of rapid (on an evolutionary timescale) changes to our diet and lifestyle, far predating the development of agriculture which is merely the latest brick in the wall. You may be able to mitigate some problems by adopting an earlier dietary style, but you may also cause other problems. We are not perfectly adapted to any environment; we are a work in progress.
- usrusr 6y ago
  Oh, we are adapting I think, adapting to an environment where teeth don't to create much selection pressure.
TopHand 6y ago
I can't help thinking that this problem is being looked at backwards. Maybe in primitive societies good teeth were far more important to survival than they are today. If that were true, then people/children with bad teeth would not survive as well, and the record would show that those who did thrive had good teeth.
- necovek 6y ago
  I think that hypothesis can work for many other things (eg I can imagine high myopia to be an issue for hunter-gatherers), but not teeth or bones: what we know of primitive societies and their eating habits is from looking at their bone remains and tools. Hopefully scientists having access to actual findings are not overlooking child skeletons with bad teeth when coming up with conclusions that our primitive ancestors had better teeth.
  - TopHand 6y ago
    It is my understanding that only about 6000 ancient human skeletons have been found. https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils Many of these are incomplete. So the samples of children with bad teeth could easily not exist or be very limited. The same could be said for children with good teeth.
blendo 6y ago
I will recommend the book "The Story of the Human Body" by Daniel E. Lieberman. In his section "Unwise Wisdom Teeth", he writes: "Just as your limbs and spine will not grow strong enough if you don't sufficiently stress your bones by walking, running, and doing other activities, your jaws won't grow large enough for your teeth and your teeth won't fit properly if you don't stress your face sufficiently from chewing food." A fascinating book. One observation: modern human hunter-gatherer mothers typically wean their children at age three, while a mother who is a subsistence farmer can wean her children between one and two years. Thus, humanity underwent a population explosion once we started farming instead of hunting and gathering.
bedhesd 6y ago
Sugar!

281 points by lelf 6y ago

I read somewhere that the crookedness off for example Japanese people is caused by the lack of from food. You need to chew and have some resistance, otherwise you turn from a monkey back into a fish

sneak 6y ago

There is ample evidence supporting the theory that the standard western diet high in refined carbohydrates is the root cause or at least primary contributing factor of many of our society’s most common health disorders. I heartily encourage everyone to try radically different (but nutritionally complete) diets for a month or two, if for no other reason than to see how your body and brain responds. Go vegan, try keto/lchf, try carnivore, try soylent, try sated. See what, if anything, it gets you. I like spending 80% or so of my life in ketosis (usually for 2-8 weeks at a time), due to the many small changes it causes in my body and mind. One of the interesting side effects (for me) is a significant reduction in dental buildup, and after a few weeks of not eating sugar, much of the existing buildup (if I haven’t had a professional cleaning recently) will spontaneously crumble and detach. It surprised me when it happened.

Simulacra 6y ago
Not to mention sugar. Societies that are not as heavily ....invested as western diets are in sugar seem to have much better teeth.
- themdonuts 6y ago
  I've recently realized how Indians in general have such perfect teeth. Some of my Indian colleagues even say they've never been to a dentist in their life. It seems like anecdotal evidence supporting how diets are that important to teeth health.
  - sumedh 6y ago
    Indians love sweets, most Indian sweets are loaded with sugar. Some sweets are literally served with sugar syrup which is just sugar and water. Since we are talking about anecdotes, most of my Indian friends have had dental issues didn't matter if they were veg or non vegetarians.
  - belltaco 6y ago
    Turmeric/Curcumin has a protective effect against gingivitis and is even as effective as a prescription mouthwash against it.
tvanantwerp 6y ago
Since going keto, my dental health has improved a lot. I've never received such praise from my dentists! Giving the bad bacteria no carbs to feed on has done wonders.

phnofive 6y ago

All that talk of the history of orthodontics and surgery and medical approaches were left out... too cheap, I guess: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5800179/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5800179/

Simulacra 6y ago

Some anecdotal evidence: In my volunteer work with the homeless, and prisoners, dental care is painfully, ridiculously absent. As much as I am opposed to the idea of universal health care, I think we can all 100% get behind universal dental care.

metabeard 6y ago
Can you please explain how you're opposed to universal health care but 100% behind universal dental care? These seem at odds.
- marcell 6y ago
  Not GP but dental care is a lot cheaper than medical
  - nightfly 6y ago
    Maybe on average, but dental care can suck when you need a lot done. Root canals, crowns, and implants are expensive. And dentists often expect payment in full up-front before doing any work.
    - Simulacra 6y ago
      But it's a definitive payment. Medical bills from hospitals and doctors offices are often padded, or somehow magically they grow in cost. Dental bills don't. It's generally a one-time thing.
  - sumedh 6y ago
    Australia has free medical but not dental care since its expensive.
- Simulacra 6y ago
  I don't want to pay for your decades of poor health, because your poor decisions will lead to a lifetime of expensive care. However, dental care is a finite expense. Replace all the teeth in your mouth and it's still a finite expense. Since when has "health care" ever had a finite expense?

eastbayjake 6y ago

The Hacker News community spends a lot of time discussing the surprising importance of our gut biome -- this article does an amazing job bringing that biome all the way to the start of the line. Unsurprisingly, the biome in our mouths has enormous importance as well.

UnbugMe 6y ago
For anyone interested in microbiomes of the human body, gut or otherwise, 'Bacteriology of Humans - An Ecological Perspective' is a great book.

themdonuts 6y ago

Reading this made me stand back up from bed and go floss.

Simulacra 6y ago
Interesting that every so often there will be a news report about the ineffectiveness of flossing. i.e. from 2016: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/health/flossing-teeth-cavities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/health/flossing-teeth-cav...
- ebg13 6y ago
  Flossing doesn't need to be "effective" to be worthwhile. All you have to do is not floss for a long time and then floss and sniff the floss.
  - Etheryte 6y ago
    This is actually what got me into flossing daily. I also think dentists doing this to patients, that is flossing their teeth and then having them sniff the floss, would be a lot more effective than simply telling people they should floss.
    - ebg13 6y ago
      > dentists doing this to patients I'm dying. "SNIFF IT! SNIIFFFFFFF IIIIIIITTTTTT!" TBH, that sounds like assault.
    - Simulacra 6y ago
      Oh snap I'm totally with ya. I floss just to keep stuff out of my teeth.. I try to avoid sniffing things, I leave that to the politicians.
- a_imho 6y ago
  It is the diet. It is genetic. You don't brush long enough. You time your brushing wrong. You use a too soft/too hard brush. Electric brush is needed. It is your toothpaste, too much/too little fluoride. All problems are caused/prevented by flossing. Mouth wash is the one true answer. Dental care feels like oncology, everything treats and causes problems at the same time.

ebg13 6y ago

I have a dream of one day being able to just replace _all_ of my teeth at once with one solid porcelain+titanium prosthetic without any interstitial cracks or crevices. No more painful cavities. No more cracked teeth. No more need for floss or toothpicks, because there aren't any gaps for food to get stuck in. And it could be trivially sculpted to still have the same outward appearance of bullshit normal teeth.

Simulacra 6y ago
So...Jaws.[1] [1.]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaws_(James_Bond) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaws_(James_Bond)
- ebg13 6y ago
  Except shaped and veneered to look and function normally.
  - Simulacra 6y ago
    ....Can I get the name of your dentist?
tomerico 6y ago
Teeth problems are easy to fix (and prevent). The serious problems that come with age are with the gums. These problems become worse with implants.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
ip26 6y ago
Implants are a lot like that. The remaining hurdle is that gums actually bond to the enamel of natural teeth, which wards off gum disease somewhat. Gums don't bond to current prosthetics, so good cleaning is allegedly even more imperative as bacteria can get in between the gum & prosthetic. Hopefully not impossible to fix- osseointegration, for example, works- but currently unsolved. Maybe one day we'll figure out how grow a fresh layer of enamel on a prosthetic in the lab, and maybe gums will happily bond to that.

akersten 6y ago

Part of it is genetics too - I've been cursed with deeply-pitted chewing surfaces that are prone to cavities. A sibling with the same diet was not, and has never needed a filling. One of my biggest regrets in life is getting amalgam fillings as a kid. Not that I would have known any better, or been able to protest it (they were the cheap and affordable option, after all). But knowing that a mercury compound is in my mouth 24/7 is not comforting. I am reassured by studies indicating there are no toxic effects[0], but it's still one of those backburner things that one thinks about every once in a while. This fear alone has done more to motivate me to floss and brush properly than anything else. Luckily, I haven't needed a filling in almost a decade - but if I do, it will not be an amalgam one. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3388771/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3388771/

jasonpeacock 6y ago
There's also mercury in vaccines. But thanks to the miracle of chemistry, you're safe. Just like the chlorine in salt doesn't kill you.
- cyphar 6y ago
  Mercury (or rather, Thiomersal) hasn't been used in the vast majority of vaccines since the 90s. It was completely safe as far as we know, but was removed as a precautionary measure during a push to remove all sources of mercury from food and drugs.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  You're using a bad argument. Dental amalgam literally contains elemental mercury: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalgam_(dentistry)#Composition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalgam_(dentistry)#Compositio... That alone is cause for concern, although it does not mean it's necessarily dangerous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_amalgam_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_amalgam_controversy
phyzome 6y ago
Amalgam also requires larger fillings, meaning they remove more healthy tooth to fit it in. And the tooth has to be undercut a bit, since it doesn't bond like composite does. So amalgam also increases the chances of a tooth cracking later on and having to be replaced with a crown. But! Composite also contains BPA or similar. So there's that.

xenospn 6y ago

Am I the only person around without any cavities or painful dentist memories?

airstrike 6y ago
Never had a cavity in my life, for some reason, and it's not like I'm OCD about my teeth. I just brush multiple times a day, floss less often than that
- xenospn 6y ago
  I brush twice a day and never floss.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- tanzbaer 6y ago
  What's your diet like?
  - airstrike 6y ago
    As a kid, kind of ate whatever, including sugary foods, but I'm not from the US so back then I think I ate less sugar than Americans just as a function of how much sugar there is in American food Nowadays I try to avoid eating added sugars (i.e. drink my coffee black, no soda, rarely eat deserts), but otherwise eat regular food and try to eat "real meals", like my grandparents would eat when they were my age
52-6F-62 6y ago
Nope. My partner is one of your kind. Perfect teeth. Bloody perfect. She can do away with brushing for a month at a time if she wanted and won’t have a problem. Her dentist has told her multiple times she should model her teeth haha. Me—and whatever I inherited on top of my B12/Iron deficiencies—I feel it if I miss a day or two. So many problems since I was young. And without proper orthodontic help in health insurance or our public health care my parents couldn’t afford much of the work I needed when I was young. Don’t get me started on outdated rural dentists and their torture methods... I mean... faulty anesthetic. You are a lucky person indeed.

ip26 6y ago

This has been popping up in the news periodically for a few years now. However, as a parent of young children, I'm still trying to figure out the next step. That is, what to feed them that is nutritious, tasty, and also works the jaw. Raw carrots and overcooked meat are not tolerated for long. Even if I don't serve them mush, al dente pasta and tender-cooked meats are quite soft. Home-made jerky and artisan-style bread (with a really tough crust) are the best I've come up with so far. I did have an insatiable desire to chew on gum for a year or so while a teenager. In retrospect I wonder if it was innate. Didn't save my wisdom teeth though.

Ericson2314 6y ago
Rhubarb
- ip26 6y ago
  Raw I presume?
  - triyambakam 6y ago
    Isn't it poisonous raw?
    - Ericson2314 6y ago
      Just the leaves
  - Ericson2314 6y ago
    Yeah. I finally tried out of curiosity. Very fun. Was disappointed I only had 4 stalks.
smithza 6y ago
A parent of a youngin' also, I am realizing there is balance needed. Technological prowess is part of the balance... we have orthodontic abilities to correct our teeth when tough food is lacking... and rub teeth with fluoride twice a day to help offset enamel breakdown.

bsima 6y ago

The article posits the "soft foods" explanation for our poor teeth, but there is another, which starts with the research of Weston A Price: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price Price studied traditional cultures and observed that, when traditional diets were followed, people had perfect teeth. When an industrialized, Western diet was followed, tooth decay resulted. His book has the evidence, and is an easy read that you can browse in a few evenings. Edit: I found the whole book free online: http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.... His research has been taken up by various doctors in the "evolutionary medicine" subfield, here are some introductory lectures: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4L0PzprcRI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4L0PzprcRI - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ck0A5oKjU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ck0A5oKjU - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCPwD59sDvg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCPwD59sDvg Those are from the Ancestral Health Symposium, for which I have been a (volunteer) organizer for the last few years.

ebg13 6y ago
The same Weston A Price? https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm-weston-prices-appalling-legacy/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm-weston-prices-appalling...
- centimeter 6y ago
  That site is the definition of midwit pulp. Citing rationalwiki, referring to raw meat as "dangerous", vast overconfidence compared to the actual predictive power available. Sure, WAPF has some wacky stuff, but they also have some obviously good advice, and for most of the disputable claims they make, we don't actually have especially good evidence that they're wrong, so it's not something I'm going to waste energy arguing about.
  - ebg13 6y ago
    > That site is the definition of midwit pulp. You mean the WAPF site, right? > Sure, WAPF has some wacky stuff, but they also have some obviously good advice, and for most of the disputable claims they make, we don't actually have especially good evidence that they're wrong Here's WAPF recommending homeopathy for alcoholism, sinus infections, and cancer: https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy-and-alcoholism/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy-and-al... https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy/honk-if-you-hate-sinus-infections/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy/honk-i... https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy/dont-believe-homeopathy-place-cancer-treatment-think/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/homeopathy/dont-b... Here's WAPF arguing against vaccines, calling Bill Gates (what?) a "delusional global dictator" (double what?) and saying that if you do have to give a child a vaccine that you should "keep him quiet for at least 24 hours after a shot" (triple what?) https://www.westonaprice.org/vaccinations/ https://www.westonaprice.org/vaccinations/

maerF0x0 6y ago

A couple of other reading: * https://elemental.medium.com/why-is-the-internet-obsessed-with-this-cult-toothpaste-963dda060501 https://elemental.medium.com/why-is-the-internet-obsessed-wi... * https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/upshot/you-probably-dont-need-dental-x-rays-every-year.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/upshot/you-probably-dont-...

bradlys 6y ago

Interesting. So, it seems to be beneficial to have children chew on hard things when small to develop a larger jaw so that their teeth don't crowd. I guess chewing on ice would be beneficial in this sense. As long as they're chewing on it with teeth that will fall out as to not worry about damaging them... I wonder what the aesthetic differences would be though. In a western beauty sense, I can imagine having a larger jaw being somewhat preferential for men but for women - isn't it not? Would it be enough to notice? Wish I had known this growing up. Ironically, I felt like I did eat some hard foods but I wonder how much you have to eat in order for it to have a real effect.

b45 6y ago
Growing up in Nigeria, my grandmother encouraged me to chew bones and consume bone marrow. It's quite common and also a badge of honor as a kid if you can open a bottle of pop with your teeth. I often get compliments on my teeth and have no issues as an adult.
centimeter 6y ago
It's not about chewing on something hard, but about pulling on something strong (away from your face). E.g. ripping chunks off a piece of meat. This will have the desired effect on their jaw, making them both healthier and more attractive.
- bradlys 6y ago
  > and more attractive. I guess that'll vary on your definition of what's more attractive.

jonplackett 6y ago

Fascinating - but was I the only one who had to go brush their teeth half way through reading?

jaggederest 6y ago

I was fairly disappointed when Oragenics abandoned their modified streptococcus treatment, designed to replace the most harmful bacteria in the human mouth with a non-damaging one. https://www.oragenics.com/technology-pipeline/lbp/smart https://www.oragenics.com/technology-pipeline/lbp/smart Last I heard, the few people who had tried the treatment are still completely free of decay and gum issues, but it's been a long time and there's no follow up, sadly.

starpilot 6y ago
I think there should be a serious look at whether dental industry is preventing these treatments from seeing the light, or at least quietly and deliberately ignoring them. Xylitol has almost definite benefits but most dentists have never heard of it.
- triyambakam 6y ago
  I first heard about Xylitol at natural food stores and from this book - "Kiss your dentist goodbye" (written by a dentist) - though like you say, no dentist that I've been to in person has mentioned it [1] https://www.amazon.com/Kiss-Your-Dentist-Goodbye-Yourself/dp/1632991195 https://www.amazon.com/Kiss-Your-Dentist-Goodbye-Yourself/dp...
  - starpilot 6y ago
    Oh wow, that's interesting. Looks like her routine is here: https://drelliecom.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/zellies-cmcsbooklet-2016-spreads.pdf https://drelliecom.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/zellies-cmcsb... I may try this.
- derefr 6y ago
  > Xylitol has almost definite benefits but most dentists have never heard of it. I mean, it's in a lot of toothpastes and mouthwashes. Certainly it could be in more things, but dentists do recommend those things it's in (without understanding exactly what makes one better than another, instead going on dentistry-association studies of the observed effects of various products. Presumably the scientists doing said studies know what xylitol is.) It's hard to just put xylitol in regular foods, though, because people feed random foods to their pets all the time, and xylitol kills dogs. So it only ends up marketed in the form of things you would never think to allow your pets to have in the first place. (Like mouthwash, or gum, or mints.) You can certainly take your consumption into your own hands, though, and just buy a bag of xylitol to use in place of sucrose for cooking/baking/putting in your coffee/etc. (That is, if you don't have a dog.)

sjg007 6y ago

We have bionators and other tools to correct jaws.. not sure why those wouldn’t work.

redka 6y ago

What about the tongue? After reading something strange in a book about meditation, where it said I should keep my tongue at the roof of my mouth, I got curious. Actually I was baffled because I couldn't do it. I literally could not keep a significant part of my tongue stuck to the roof of my mouth without significant effort and actually strain. I did a survey between my friends and only one of them (my brother) actually kept the tongue in the described position naturally. Surprisingly (this is highly anecdotal, but still interesting) he's the only person that I know that doesn't have any teeth issues - only once he'd visited a dentist with a small cavity. This got me researching and there's actually a British orthodontist (Dr. Mike Mew) who actively pushes the idea that we should keep our tongue at the roof of our mouth and that it's actually our natural tongue position that _would_ develop if we kept our ancestral dietary habits, e.g. chewing hard foods like meat from since we were little.

missedthecue 6y ago
Wow this is the first time I've heard this. Anecdotally, I have poor dental hygiene habits compared to my wife and family, but despite consuming the same diet as them, I have had no dental trouble and only one cavity in my life, which was back in my teens. We often joke about how unfair this is. My tongue naturally rests on the roof of my mouth.
missedthecue 6y ago
Wow this is the first time I've heard this. Anecdotally, I have relatively less than perfect dental hygiene habits compared to my wife and family, but despite consuming the same diet as them, I have had no dental trouble and only one cavity in my life, which was back in my teens. We often joke about how unfair this is. My tongue naturally rests on the roof of my mouth.
arm 6y ago
That’s quite interesting! When my mouth is closed, at least half of my tongue is always naturally touching the roof of my mouth. Despite my oral hygiene not being the best (I brush my teeth every day, but rarely floss), I’ve never had a cavity (I did have to get my wisdom teeth removed though). I notice it’s much easier for my mouth to produce saliva when my tongue is touching the roof of my mouth, which definitely helps (quoting the linked article: “saliva buffers the teeth against acid attack and bathes them in calcium and phosphate to remineralize their surface”).

rotrux 6y ago

A)Teeth are sorta like regular ol' bones 'cept they're on the outside of your body and their purpose is to grind things. B) You don't really need all of them to survive + evolution. C) Humans live a really long time now and we just expect our mashy-grinders to keep up? D) Enamel doesn't like sugar which is in everything. Bam. Scientific American here I come.

leafmeal 6y ago

Recently I was wondering why we have so many mouth problems. Teeth are often misaligned, wisdom teeth need to be removed, TMJ (clicking / popping jaw) is extremely common. After researching, I came to the same conclusion that this article mentions at the end. Essentially we need to eat harder foods while developing in order to increase jaw size and strength. The article touches on sleep apnoea as well. Apparently this can become a huge problem for developing children if their pallet is under-formed. I think this is a big public health issue, and I think it makes sense to start some kind of large scale public health campaign to inform the public and avoid all of these dental issues. There's a book about this, the introduction is online here https://www.sup.org/books/extra/?id=29626&i=Introduction.html https://www.sup.org/books/extra/?id=29626&i=Introduction.htm...

woodandsteel 6y ago

The article gives us yet another set of reasons for avoiding the modern processed diet and sticking with unprocessed foods.

mc32 6y ago

Somewhat related was something on NPR the other day[1]. Diet has affected mouth morphology such that about 90% of people are affected by it and it’s expressed in crooked teeth, poor sleep and other things. Looks like diets over the last 400 years have had dramatic impact on human health mouth shape. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/27/862963172/how-the-lost-art-of-breathing-can-impact-sleep-and-resilience https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/27/8629631...

senectus1 6y ago

I was born without wisdom teeth. According to my dentist its becoming more common and considered and a part of the evolutionary process.

kyle_morris_ 6y ago

I read somewhere that people in recent history have begun to mouth breath heavily compared to folks living before the industrial revolution. A drier mouth has to impact the biome in your mouth I would presume, for better or worse. Mouth breathing could have a lot of other disadvantages, such as sleep apnea, as mentioned in the article. Mouth breathing obviously doesn’t cause teeth crowding but I’m wondering how significant factor it is in overall dental health.

vczf 6y ago
I think there's a link to tooth decay. If you're mouth breathing your teeth aren't being coated in saliva, so they can't be remineralized. I read that distance runners can develop dental problems because of mouth dryness combined with sugary energy gels.
elric 6y ago
Mouth breathing doesn't cause sleep apnea. Seems more like a comorbidity. Allergies play a huge role in mouth breathing, and their prevalence seems to be on the rise, so maybe that's the common factor?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

eth0up 6y ago

Tired, so I'll skip my own interpretation - but I've become convinced that hydroxyapatite is overlooked. I subscribe to the importance of vitamin K too, although my experience with hydroxyapatite has been tangibly beneficial. I find it odd that it's as uncommon as it is, eg I've never seen it on a store shelf. Again, I'm tired, so I'm dropping an unvetted lazily found link on the topic below: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4252862/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4252862/

boyadjian 6y ago

Sugar is a plague. I have totally eliminated sugar in my eating habits, and I don't miss it. Never give sugar to a child, especially if you want to reward him.

crazygringo 6y ago

Is there any actual evidence, though, that soft foods have led to smaller jaws (and therefore crowded teeth)? When you look at traditional cooking all around the world, I just don't see any evidence that diets today are overwhelmingly "softer". When you think of traditional diets, you think of boiled vegetables, milled grains made into porridge or bread, grilled fish and meat, and so on. I don't see any evidence that traditional diets were harder to chew in any way. People have been cooking and boiling foods to make them soft for many thousands of years. And plenty of people today are raised on crusty chewy bread, chewy steak sandwiches, salads with chewy greens (kale), and so on. Not everybody, sure -- but those people (like me) still need to get braces terribly often. So while there certainly appears to be evidence that teeth crowding has gotten worse, it's not clear that the hypothesis that small jaws are caused by soft food has been proven at all, or is even plausible.

lenkite 6y ago

Human Teeth are terrible. The fact that we cannot regrow enamel, considering our life-span is a ridiculous, evolutionary design mistake. So wish we were Polyphyodont. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphyodont https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphyodont

decebalus1 6y ago
Why is it an evolutionary design mistake? It's perfect from an evolutionary standpoint. They get you through sexual maturity, reproduction and plenty of time to see after your offspring. What happens afterwards is bonus time on the planet, it's free-for-all everything goes wrt to your body. Evolution didn't 'design' us to last that long..

kaybe 6y ago

Everyone, please be aware that if you brush too hard/wrong you can wear down your gums which will be very troublesome from middle age up! Get a softer toothbrush if you are sensitive!

dTal 6y ago

I'm surprised that in nearly 200 comments, nobody has pointed out that hominid jaw evolution has been trending smaller for millions of years. Problems such as crowding and malformed wisdom teeth are a symptom of an in-progress adaptation - it is easier for evolution to change the size of the jaw than the number of teeth. Broadly, the issues with our mouths all fall under the umbrella of rapid (on an evolutionary timescale) changes to our diet and lifestyle, far predating the development of agriculture which is merely the latest brick in the wall. You may be able to mitigate some problems by adopting an earlier dietary style, but you may also cause other problems. We are not perfectly adapted to any environment; we are a work in progress.

usrusr 6y ago
Oh, we are adapting I think, adapting to an environment where teeth don't to create much selection pressure.

TopHand 6y ago

I can't help thinking that this problem is being looked at backwards. Maybe in primitive societies good teeth were far more important to survival than they are today. If that were true, then people/children with bad teeth would not survive as well, and the record would show that those who did thrive had good teeth.

necovek 6y ago
I think that hypothesis can work for many other things (eg I can imagine high myopia to be an issue for hunter-gatherers), but not teeth or bones: what we know of primitive societies and their eating habits is from looking at their bone remains and tools. Hopefully scientists having access to actual findings are not overlooking child skeletons with bad teeth when coming up with conclusions that our primitive ancestors had better teeth.
- TopHand 6y ago
  It is my understanding that only about 6000 ancient human skeletons have been found. https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils Many of these are incomplete. So the samples of children with bad teeth could easily not exist or be very limited. The same could be said for children with good teeth.

blendo 6y ago

I will recommend the book "The Story of the Human Body" by Daniel E. Lieberman. In his section "Unwise Wisdom Teeth", he writes: "Just as your limbs and spine will not grow strong enough if you don't sufficiently stress your bones by walking, running, and doing other activities, your jaws won't grow large enough for your teeth and your teeth won't fit properly if you don't stress your face sufficiently from chewing food." A fascinating book. One observation: modern human hunter-gatherer mothers typically wean their children at age three, while a mother who is a subsistence farmer can wean her children between one and two years. Thus, humanity underwent a population explosion once we started farming instead of hunting and gathering.

bedhesd 6y ago

Sugar!