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If you care about your local restaurants and have the means to do so, consider calling in your order and picking it up yourself, with mask and gloves. Services

If you care about your local restaurants and have the means to do so, consider calling in your order and picking it up yourself, with mask and gloves. Services like GrubHub take a huge portion (like 30%) of the ticket price just for delivery.

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toomuchtodo 6y ago
What are the best apps or websites for eatery discovery that are employee owned, take very small cuts or no cut at all, or both?
- fitzn 6y ago
  https://ontrayapp.com/ https://ontrayapp.com/ is not very large but it basically gives the restaurants a portal to take online orders with a minimal cut.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  I’m not sure better is possible given that the delivery companies themselves aren’t making money. 30% of the bill seems to basically be what it costs to move most orders to their destinations.
  - ska 6y ago
    I don't think the market for "gig economy" is stable & mature enough to read anything like that from the delivery companies P&L. How much are they spending on expansion and various turf wars? It's also pretty clear that delivery as a function doesn't scale linearly with check value...
- s_dev 6y ago
  https://LoyLap.com https://LoyLap.com We're not "an eatery discovery app" as our app is generally used by a single end user with a single brand (a sort of pseudo white-label) but we do service a similar market and are low priced relative to GrubHub. We don't do delivery but we do click&collect, online ordering solutions, cashless transactions for gift and loyalty, branded PWAs, Clover&Poynt integrations. Employee owned.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Google? Put in "sushi" on Google Maps, call a place, and you're done. Grubhub doesn't offer much more than that for their 30% cut anyways.
- ahelwer 6y ago
  It's easy to use yelp or google to find restaurants. Then just look at their menu online & call them for pickup.
- hkmurakami 6y ago
  I've seen my local Japanese curry joint (they opened in March literally during the height of COVID lockdown) use this service for pickup processing. https://www.gloriafood.com/pricing https://www.gloriafood.com/pricing "We understand that your restaurant's profit margin is already low and we don't want to reduce it even further with fees or commissions. That's why we offer this simplified, do-it-yourself ordering platform for free. However, we do have (and continue to add to the platform) premium features that are more complex, that you can choose to pay for (if they bring extra value for your business). For example: online payments, promotions, sales optimized website, branded mobile apps."
- ydnaclementine 6y ago
  https://slicelife.com https://slicelife.com Small business pizza focused app, and takes much less than the 30% the other apps take to help these businesses succeed
  - coolswan 6y ago
    How much commission do they take? I heard it's a lot too but not as bad as others.
- cheungyinglon 6y ago
  https://www.eatnyc.org/ https://www.eatnyc.org/ If you live in NYC, this nonprofit helps you find restaurants still open and order directly. Restaurants keep 100% of commission. I use it to order food every weekend. Local restaurants seem to really appreciate it.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    This is exactly what I was looking for as a template for other locales. Thank you.
    - cheungyinglon 6y ago
      You should reach out to them at hi@eatnyc.org! They're super responsive. I emailed them to request filtering by cuisine and they pushed it live the same day.
melvinram 6y ago
To be fair, it's not just for delivery. It's for bringing the restaurant customers/revenue.
duxup 6y ago
I wish there was a good option for delivery... but that they treat their employees and stores well, but the race to the bottom there seems to indicate there isn't. A few stores locally have "we deliver" type messaging, but it's really just grubhub :(
ryanianian 6y ago
Exactly this. GrubHub can be useful for trying out new places, but once you become a "repeat" customer, go direct. Many, many restaurants have their own online ordering systems and don't require you to make a weird phone-call. My favorite local restaurants all have ChowNow which charges restaurants a monthly fee rather than a percentage and has a grubhub-like ux. I also call in my order to the restaurants where I know the wait-staff and they always throw in extra portions for me :)
- dannyw 6y ago
  Sometimes calling is actually the most convenient. There's nothing wrong with picking up the phone and placing a 30 second phone call. You'll also synchronously resolve any issues, like if they're out of a certain item.
  - duxup 6y ago
    With COVID if you call any places near me anytime near prime eating times ... they can't keep up with the phone calls. Most every place seems to have optimized for internet orders, not phone.
    - bbeekley 6y ago
      Grubhub is a good backup service in that case. I call first, then put in an order online if calling failed (which happens very rarely for me). Plus a lot of places are a little cheaper if you call.
    - dannyw 6y ago
      I have received “thanks for ordering directly” and “appreciate you skipping the tech leeches” when placing orders directly. So I think I’m going to go with what my local restaurants prefer.
  - ryanianian 6y ago
    It really pays to become a regular. Call and say "this is X give me the usual." Regulars are always treated nicer in terms of priority and portions. And since you're a regular you know what it'll cost and you can round up to the nearest $Y bill when paying.
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bhupy 6y ago
Honest question: what's stopping restaurants from charging 30% extra for items on GrubHub? Transaction fees aren't new, and merchants typically bake that into the cost of doing business. Ostensibly, the end user would have to pay more for the convenience of someone else using their labor to deliver them food.
- ryanianian 6y ago
  GrubHub prevents it (or at least tries to). I think they enforce by fear, but I've seen restaurants get around it by giving smaller portions to grubhub orders than they would otherwise.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  It's against the GrubHub T&C's, and a resturant will be banned if they are caught doing this. Many still do though.
- Benjammer 6y ago
  They do charge more, among other strategies. I think these sites/services drastically increase the competition for restaurants though, and I think delivery food prices are more elastic than the restaurants can handle if they increase prices to match previous net income.
- tyingq 6y ago
  Contractual terms. For example, from Uber's terms for UberEats restaurants[1]: "Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Section 5, Merchant may not make any Item available to Customers through the Eats App at a price that is higher than the price that Merchant charges in-store for similar Items. Merchant agrees that you will not make an Item available under this Agreement at a price higher than the amount Merchant is charging for similar Items through any comparable platform for food delivery services." [1] https://www.uber.com/legal/en/document/?country=united-states&lang=en&name=uber-eats-merchant-terms-and-conditions https://www.uber.com/legal/en/document/?country=united-state...
  - RussianCow 6y ago
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cfitz 6y ago
While I understand it is a business like many others, it'd be genuinely nice if GrubHub would stop airing their "restaurants are our family"/"support local restaurants" advertisements. If we really want to support local restaurants (and give them better chances of post-COVID survival), we should do exactly as stated above: call in to order directly. Do not give GrubHub, Uber Eats, and similar services a large portion of your order total just for being an easy-to-use middleman. The vast majority of restaurants around today are capable of processing payments and handling pickup/delivery themselves. While these restaurants fight to stay alive in unprecedented times, the least we can do is put in a bit more effort for an order of food we would have placed and paid for anyway.
- dave5104 6y ago
  I know that DoorDash specifically also raises the price of individual menu items by a $1 or $2 sometimes compared to paying the restaurant's menu price directly.
  - admn2 6y ago
    I stopped using Grubhub for pickup because the restaurants would consistently raise their prices on the app to make up for Grubhub's prohibitively expensive fee.
    - tlbsofware 6y ago
      So THATS why the prices are more expensive! I don’t use Uber eats or grub hub because of this lack of transparency. I figured the app was increasing food prices and then charging me for delivery and a tip
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  - thebigspacefuck 6y ago
    I've noticed higher costs too, but wondered if it had to do with having to order items separately instead of as a meal. For example, ordering a sandwich, fries, and drink, instead of a combo with the same thing.
Benjammer 6y ago
I've been a heavy Seamless user for a few years. I recently started only browsing on Seamless, and then once I decide, I go find that restaurant's ChowNow or other private hosted page and order directly. I've found on average I get better service, lower prices, and actually better quality food in some cases, where it seems like they made it fresh and sent it right away, instead of the meal sitting in an "uber eats" type car for an hour and getting cold. And, I really only have a "pool" of like, max, 12 restaurants or something. Once I make an account and put my credit card in on each site, it's exactly as easy as Seamless to go back and re-order my favorites at each place with a few clicks.
tommoor 6y ago
I don't understand why more restaurants don't just offer a discount for direct ordering if the fees are this high. Seems like a win-win
- balls187 6y ago
  > I don't understand why more restaurants don't just offer a discount for direct ordering if the fees are this high. Seems like a win-win The margins on restaurants are already very small. Instead (at least in my experience) charge more for items purchased via DoorDash/Uber Eats. In effect you get a discount for ordering and picking up.
Spivak 6y ago
Look I don't really understand this sentiment. This whole situation is absolutely shitty for everyone involved but I don't think the 30% cut is unreasonable. Say I pay ~$20 dollars total for a delivery including tip. My usual Indian takeout order. A real human spends 30 minutes picking up and delivering my order and makes ~$7 (or a little less than $15/hr but not really since they're not getting a steady stream of deliveries). $4 of that order was my tip for the driver so the delivery service and the restaurant now have to divide up the remaining $9 which is already less than 70% of the menu price of what I ordered. Unless people start getting okay with paying way more for delivery it's gonna continue being a "squeezing water from a stone" situation.
- yibg 6y ago
  30% may not seem unreasonable to you as a customer and from the perspective of paying the delivery driver, but it can be deadly for the restaurant. Restaurant margins are low as it is, and an extra 30% cost on every order puts a lot of them in the negative. You can argue that is a free market and restaurants are free to not participate if the cost is too high. Some do, at least some of the popular local spots around me are NOT on any delivery app. But most restaurants also can’t afford to not have this sales channel, especially during COVID. So now they are left in the shitty position of choosing between losing a lot of their orders and losing money on a lot of orders and hope dine in comes back soon.
  - fragmede 6y ago
    It's unclear that restaurants are free to opt out. Grubhub "growth hacked" by listing restaurants that didn’t agree to be listed. The issue comes when customers aren't aware, and complain about delivery problems and seek refunds from the restaurant, who didn't agree to do delivery with Grubhub. https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/29/21113876/grubhub-seamless-fake-restaurant-listings-no-permission-postmates-doordash https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/29/21113876/grubhub-seamless...
    - yibg 6y ago
      I wonder how that would even work from an ordering / delivery / fee perspective. If the restaurant has no partnership then there presumably isn't any integration. So if the restaurant does offer pickup, these platforms would what? Call the restaurant to place an order and then send a driver to pick it up? In this case I'd assume there wouldn't be any cut taken from the restaurant. I mean a drive can't really go to the restaurant and demand 30% off because they're picking up for grubhub.
vowelless 6y ago
Not sure if I understand your point. Is the idea that it is better for restaurants to not participate in Grubhub, letting customers do pick ups? Given the higher volume provided by Grubhub, I assume using Grubhub is a net positive, isn’t it?
- pwinnski 6y ago
  For some restaurants, it is. For others, it is not. These companies and the restaurants alike seem to be splitting already-thin margins.
mrlala 6y ago
Shrug. I'm pretty sick of getting in the middle of this shit. I'm already in the middle of it every time I eat out- having to add an arbitrary tip to the end of the my bill and always get surprised because I'm supposed to sit there and increase everything 10-20% of the menu prices. Then I order groceries from walmart online and they try to bug me to add a $10-20 tip for every order that arrives. Screw all of that. If the restaurants are paying too much, then they can figure it out. It's not my problem.. I'm done with it. Just show me what it costs.. telling me to go to the restaurant instead of using a service is ludicrous and pretty much defeats the purpose of delivery. When I ordered from Costco last week, you know what they did? Increased all their prices so it included all the extra work. That way every item I ordered I could see exactly what I was paying- I didn't have a choice, which is great. I don't want the choice.
mattacular 6y ago
You also won't need to worry about your tip money being used to pay their contractor* wages like DoorDash and others have been caught doing. Edit: not employee
speeder 6y ago
Sadly where I live during covid times this is not allowed :( Some places, like bakeries and ice cream store can let people pick up orders, but food trucks for example can't, they must operate with doors (and windows in case of food trucks) closed and only send orders with delivery services of some kind. And yes, delivery companies are expensive, a food truck owner I often chat with about business told me iFood charges them 30% of the total value, some restaurants then opt to have high food price, others just charge a lot for the delivery service, even then they might lose money (for example of they charge 5, but you buy only low margin dishes that cost 100, they lose money)
xoxoy 6y ago
Most restaurants I see on delivery apps inflate their menu prices to compensate. And “calling in” implies that they have their own delivery people on staff, which isn’t true of the majority of restaurants that partner with these apps.
specialp 6y ago
I find that GrubHub will also oversubscribe their drivers by a huge amount. We tend to support restaurants more and don't use GrubHub but a few months ago we placed an order for a Thai place near us. The restaurant called and was like yah Grubhub took your order, and we'll make it, but they won't have someone here for a long time (2+ hours 10PM!) I'd cancel it. I thought it was the owner not wanting them to take the rip but sure enough there was no sign of GrubHub going there. Calling them resulted in being connected to an offshore call center that said that we shouldn't cancel it is "in progress" but the projection was still over an hour later after we had been waiting 45 minutes. We finally cancelled and went there and got it ourselves. The restaurants I frequent often and know the owners I just call them or use their chow-now powered site. It is much more fair that way. Also saves the unpredictability of the whim of gig workers.
smallgovt 6y ago
Grubhub actually only charges 10% for delivery. It charges an additional 15%+ for the marketing component (to get your restaurant listed and to appear higher up in search rankings). In other words, if a restaurant sources their own customer and only uses Grubhub for delivery, they only pay 10%. This charge seems reasonable when compared to what it costs to have an inhouse courier.
malandrew 6y ago
Will you also advocate for going directly to the kitchen and cutting out waitstaff when sit-down service resumes? Advocating for cutting out the ordering/delivery company and delivery person is akin to cutting out the waitstaff since those are the ones taking your order and bringing it to you.
cheungyinglon 6y ago
If you live in NYC, there's a nonprofit that helps you to easily find restaurants still open for pickup / delivery and to order directly: https://www.eatnyc.org/ https://www.eatnyc.org/. Restaurants keep 100% of the commission, so it really helps our favorite restaurants stay alive. They seem to have solid coverage in Manhattan.
- smallgovt 6y ago
  How do we support non-profit sites like this more? I think it's pretty absurd that Grubhub and Uber take such a large commission for what amounts to pretty basic software. But, I bet this site isn't getting much traction because it has no marketing budget (because it makes no profit).
  - xapata 6y ago
    > in a weekend Sure. Why don't you make a competitor then? Get yourself bought for $$$. My guess is you'll discover it's far more difficult to onboard customers (restaurants are the customers) and consumers than you seem to think. Further, once it's mildly successful, it turns out maintenance is tough. Edit: Looks like the "in a weekend" assertion was retracted.
  - cheungyinglon 6y ago
    I've been using this site to order from restaurants every week and sharing it with my friends. They also seem pretty responsive. I emailed them at hi@eatnyc.org to request a cuisine filter and they pushed it live the same day.
  - testbot123 6y ago
    > for what amounts to pretty basic software I mean... and also an entire international coordinated delivery network, apps that work on all devices, background checks, vehicle registration and checking sites, marketing, huge expensive legal departments, etc. The original algorithm behind Google search was also "pretty basic software" but there's a lot more that goes into building a successful product than writing some code.
troydavis 6y ago
> take a huge portion of the (like 30%) of the ticket price just for delivery. At least for restaurants which don't offer delivery themselves (which is the vast majority), the delivery service may be creating more than 30% of the value of the final product. "A meal delivered to me from any restaurant within about 3 miles" is often a different product than "A meal that I need to spend 20-50 minutes going to and coming back from." Although they're similar, they aren't always substitutes for one another. Obviously the adoption of delivery speaks for itself, but beyond that, I think if one just asked buyers how much of the value is provided by the delivery company, many or most would say over 30%. The target market does not consider it "just delivery."
catalogia 6y ago
I've encountered a handful of restaurants that no longer take orders by phone. In one case you call the number still printed on their pizza boxes, you get a prerecorded message telling you they only take orders from grubhub now. Sadly this means I can no longer order from them.
paxys 6y ago
While I agree with the sentiment, if people had the ability to go pick up their own orders they wouldn't be using delivery services in the first place. Remember that it's completely optional for the restaurant to even support it.
chanmad29 6y ago
Not to forget the markup they charge from customers on the prices. Paid 10% more even on a pick up order from a restaurant downstairs. Learnt that the service is best used when you cannot drive to a certain place.

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toomuchtodo 6y ago

What are the best apps or websites for eatery discovery that are employee owned, take very small cuts or no cut at all, or both?

fitzn 6y ago
https://ontrayapp.com/ https://ontrayapp.com/ is not very large but it basically gives the restaurants a portal to take online orders with a minimal cut.
MattGaiser 6y ago
I’m not sure better is possible given that the delivery companies themselves aren’t making money. 30% of the bill seems to basically be what it costs to move most orders to their destinations.
- ska 6y ago
  I don't think the market for "gig economy" is stable & mature enough to read anything like that from the delivery companies P&L. How much are they spending on expansion and various turf wars? It's also pretty clear that delivery as a function doesn't scale linearly with check value...
s_dev 6y ago
https://LoyLap.com https://LoyLap.com We're not "an eatery discovery app" as our app is generally used by a single end user with a single brand (a sort of pseudo white-label) but we do service a similar market and are low priced relative to GrubHub. We don't do delivery but we do click&collect, online ordering solutions, cashless transactions for gift and loyalty, branded PWAs, Clover&Poynt integrations. Employee owned.
ceejayoz 6y ago
Google? Put in "sushi" on Google Maps, call a place, and you're done. Grubhub doesn't offer much more than that for their 30% cut anyways.
ahelwer 6y ago
It's easy to use yelp or google to find restaurants. Then just look at their menu online & call them for pickup.
hkmurakami 6y ago
I've seen my local Japanese curry joint (they opened in March literally during the height of COVID lockdown) use this service for pickup processing. https://www.gloriafood.com/pricing https://www.gloriafood.com/pricing "We understand that your restaurant's profit margin is already low and we don't want to reduce it even further with fees or commissions. That's why we offer this simplified, do-it-yourself ordering platform for free. However, we do have (and continue to add to the platform) premium features that are more complex, that you can choose to pay for (if they bring extra value for your business). For example: online payments, promotions, sales optimized website, branded mobile apps."
ydnaclementine 6y ago
https://slicelife.com https://slicelife.com Small business pizza focused app, and takes much less than the 30% the other apps take to help these businesses succeed
- coolswan 6y ago
  How much commission do they take? I heard it's a lot too but not as bad as others.
cheungyinglon 6y ago
https://www.eatnyc.org/ https://www.eatnyc.org/ If you live in NYC, this nonprofit helps you find restaurants still open and order directly. Restaurants keep 100% of commission. I use it to order food every weekend. Local restaurants seem to really appreciate it.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  This is exactly what I was looking for as a template for other locales. Thank you.
  - cheungyinglon 6y ago
    You should reach out to them at hi@eatnyc.org! They're super responsive. I emailed them to request filtering by cuisine and they pushed it live the same day.

melvinram 6y ago

To be fair, it's not just for delivery. It's for bringing the restaurant customers/revenue.

duxup 6y ago

I wish there was a good option for delivery... but that they treat their employees and stores well, but the race to the bottom there seems to indicate there isn't. A few stores locally have "we deliver" type messaging, but it's really just grubhub :(

ryanianian 6y ago

Exactly this. GrubHub can be useful for trying out new places, but once you become a "repeat" customer, go direct. Many, many restaurants have their own online ordering systems and don't require you to make a weird phone-call. My favorite local restaurants all have ChowNow which charges restaurants a monthly fee rather than a percentage and has a grubhub-like ux. I also call in my order to the restaurants where I know the wait-staff and they always throw in extra portions for me :)

dannyw 6y ago
Sometimes calling is actually the most convenient. There's nothing wrong with picking up the phone and placing a 30 second phone call. You'll also synchronously resolve any issues, like if they're out of a certain item.
- duxup 6y ago
  With COVID if you call any places near me anytime near prime eating times ... they can't keep up with the phone calls. Most every place seems to have optimized for internet orders, not phone.
  - bbeekley 6y ago
    Grubhub is a good backup service in that case. I call first, then put in an order online if calling failed (which happens very rarely for me). Plus a lot of places are a little cheaper if you call.
  - dannyw 6y ago
    I have received “thanks for ordering directly” and “appreciate you skipping the tech leeches” when placing orders directly. So I think I’m going to go with what my local restaurants prefer.
- ryanianian 6y ago
  It really pays to become a regular. Call and say "this is X give me the usual." Regulars are always treated nicer in terms of priority and portions. And since you're a regular you know what it'll cost and you can round up to the nearest $Y bill when paying.

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bhupy 6y ago

Honest question: what's stopping restaurants from charging 30% extra for items on GrubHub? Transaction fees aren't new, and merchants typically bake that into the cost of doing business. Ostensibly, the end user would have to pay more for the convenience of someone else using their labor to deliver them food.

ryanianian 6y ago
GrubHub prevents it (or at least tries to). I think they enforce by fear, but I've seen restaurants get around it by giving smaller portions to grubhub orders than they would otherwise.
londons_explore 6y ago
It's against the GrubHub T&C's, and a resturant will be banned if they are caught doing this. Many still do though.
Benjammer 6y ago
They do charge more, among other strategies. I think these sites/services drastically increase the competition for restaurants though, and I think delivery food prices are more elastic than the restaurants can handle if they increase prices to match previous net income.
tyingq 6y ago
Contractual terms. For example, from Uber's terms for UberEats restaurants[1]: "Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Section 5, Merchant may not make any Item available to Customers through the Eats App at a price that is higher than the price that Merchant charges in-store for similar Items. Merchant agrees that you will not make an Item available under this Agreement at a price higher than the amount Merchant is charging for similar Items through any comparable platform for food delivery services." [1] https://www.uber.com/legal/en/document/?country=united-states&lang=en&name=uber-eats-merchant-terms-and-conditions https://www.uber.com/legal/en/document/?country=united-state...
- RussianCow 6y ago

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cfitz 6y ago

While I understand it is a business like many others, it'd be genuinely nice if GrubHub would stop airing their "restaurants are our family"/"support local restaurants" advertisements. If we really want to support local restaurants (and give them better chances of post-COVID survival), we should do exactly as stated above: call in to order directly. Do not give GrubHub, Uber Eats, and similar services a large portion of your order total just for being an easy-to-use middleman. The vast majority of restaurants around today are capable of processing payments and handling pickup/delivery themselves. While these restaurants fight to stay alive in unprecedented times, the least we can do is put in a bit more effort for an order of food we would have placed and paid for anyway.

dave5104 6y ago
I know that DoorDash specifically also raises the price of individual menu items by a $1 or $2 sometimes compared to paying the restaurant's menu price directly.
- admn2 6y ago
  I stopped using Grubhub for pickup because the restaurants would consistently raise their prices on the app to make up for Grubhub's prohibitively expensive fee.
  - tlbsofware 6y ago
    So THATS why the prices are more expensive! I don’t use Uber eats or grub hub because of this lack of transparency. I figured the app was increasing food prices and then charging me for delivery and a tip
    - deleted 6y ago
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- thebigspacefuck 6y ago
  I've noticed higher costs too, but wondered if it had to do with having to order items separately instead of as a meal. For example, ordering a sandwich, fries, and drink, instead of a combo with the same thing.

Benjammer 6y ago

I've been a heavy Seamless user for a few years. I recently started only browsing on Seamless, and then once I decide, I go find that restaurant's ChowNow or other private hosted page and order directly. I've found on average I get better service, lower prices, and actually better quality food in some cases, where it seems like they made it fresh and sent it right away, instead of the meal sitting in an "uber eats" type car for an hour and getting cold. And, I really only have a "pool" of like, max, 12 restaurants or something. Once I make an account and put my credit card in on each site, it's exactly as easy as Seamless to go back and re-order my favorites at each place with a few clicks.

tommoor 6y ago

I don't understand why more restaurants don't just offer a discount for direct ordering if the fees are this high. Seems like a win-win

balls187 6y ago
> I don't understand why more restaurants don't just offer a discount for direct ordering if the fees are this high. Seems like a win-win The margins on restaurants are already very small. Instead (at least in my experience) charge more for items purchased via DoorDash/Uber Eats. In effect you get a discount for ordering and picking up.

Spivak 6y ago

Look I don't really understand this sentiment. This whole situation is absolutely shitty for everyone involved but I don't think the 30% cut is unreasonable. Say I pay ~$20 dollars total for a delivery including tip. My usual Indian takeout order. A real human spends 30 minutes picking up and delivering my order and makes ~$7 (or a little less than $15/hr but not really since they're not getting a steady stream of deliveries). $4 of that order was my tip for the driver so the delivery service and the restaurant now have to divide up the remaining $9 which is already less than 70% of the menu price of what I ordered. Unless people start getting okay with paying way more for delivery it's gonna continue being a "squeezing water from a stone" situation.

yibg 6y ago
30% may not seem unreasonable to you as a customer and from the perspective of paying the delivery driver, but it can be deadly for the restaurant. Restaurant margins are low as it is, and an extra 30% cost on every order puts a lot of them in the negative. You can argue that is a free market and restaurants are free to not participate if the cost is too high. Some do, at least some of the popular local spots around me are NOT on any delivery app. But most restaurants also can’t afford to not have this sales channel, especially during COVID. So now they are left in the shitty position of choosing between losing a lot of their orders and losing money on a lot of orders and hope dine in comes back soon.
- fragmede 6y ago
  It's unclear that restaurants are free to opt out. Grubhub "growth hacked" by listing restaurants that didn’t agree to be listed. The issue comes when customers aren't aware, and complain about delivery problems and seek refunds from the restaurant, who didn't agree to do delivery with Grubhub. https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/29/21113876/grubhub-seamless-fake-restaurant-listings-no-permission-postmates-doordash https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/29/21113876/grubhub-seamless...
  - yibg 6y ago
    I wonder how that would even work from an ordering / delivery / fee perspective. If the restaurant has no partnership then there presumably isn't any integration. So if the restaurant does offer pickup, these platforms would what? Call the restaurant to place an order and then send a driver to pick it up? In this case I'd assume there wouldn't be any cut taken from the restaurant. I mean a drive can't really go to the restaurant and demand 30% off because they're picking up for grubhub.

vowelless 6y ago

Not sure if I understand your point. Is the idea that it is better for restaurants to not participate in Grubhub, letting customers do pick ups? Given the higher volume provided by Grubhub, I assume using Grubhub is a net positive, isn’t it?

pwinnski 6y ago
For some restaurants, it is. For others, it is not. These companies and the restaurants alike seem to be splitting already-thin margins.

mrlala 6y ago

Shrug. I'm pretty sick of getting in the middle of this shit. I'm already in the middle of it every time I eat out- having to add an arbitrary tip to the end of the my bill and always get surprised because I'm supposed to sit there and increase everything 10-20% of the menu prices. Then I order groceries from walmart online and they try to bug me to add a $10-20 tip for every order that arrives. Screw all of that. If the restaurants are paying too much, then they can figure it out. It's not my problem.. I'm done with it. Just show me what it costs.. telling me to go to the restaurant instead of using a service is ludicrous and pretty much defeats the purpose of delivery. When I ordered from Costco last week, you know what they did? Increased all their prices so it included all the extra work. That way every item I ordered I could see exactly what I was paying- I didn't have a choice, which is great. I don't want the choice.

mattacular 6y ago

You also won't need to worry about your tip money being used to pay their contractor* wages like DoorDash and others have been caught doing. Edit: not employee

speeder 6y ago

Sadly where I live during covid times this is not allowed :( Some places, like bakeries and ice cream store can let people pick up orders, but food trucks for example can't, they must operate with doors (and windows in case of food trucks) closed and only send orders with delivery services of some kind. And yes, delivery companies are expensive, a food truck owner I often chat with about business told me iFood charges them 30% of the total value, some restaurants then opt to have high food price, others just charge a lot for the delivery service, even then they might lose money (for example of they charge 5, but you buy only low margin dishes that cost 100, they lose money)

xoxoy 6y ago

Most restaurants I see on delivery apps inflate their menu prices to compensate. And “calling in” implies that they have their own delivery people on staff, which isn’t true of the majority of restaurants that partner with these apps.

specialp 6y ago

I find that GrubHub will also oversubscribe their drivers by a huge amount. We tend to support restaurants more and don't use GrubHub but a few months ago we placed an order for a Thai place near us. The restaurant called and was like yah Grubhub took your order, and we'll make it, but they won't have someone here for a long time (2+ hours 10PM!) I'd cancel it. I thought it was the owner not wanting them to take the rip but sure enough there was no sign of GrubHub going there. Calling them resulted in being connected to an offshore call center that said that we shouldn't cancel it is "in progress" but the projection was still over an hour later after we had been waiting 45 minutes. We finally cancelled and went there and got it ourselves. The restaurants I frequent often and know the owners I just call them or use their chow-now powered site. It is much more fair that way. Also saves the unpredictability of the whim of gig workers.

smallgovt 6y ago

Grubhub actually only charges 10% for delivery. It charges an additional 15%+ for the marketing component (to get your restaurant listed and to appear higher up in search rankings). In other words, if a restaurant sources their own customer and only uses Grubhub for delivery, they only pay 10%. This charge seems reasonable when compared to what it costs to have an inhouse courier.

malandrew 6y ago

Will you also advocate for going directly to the kitchen and cutting out waitstaff when sit-down service resumes? Advocating for cutting out the ordering/delivery company and delivery person is akin to cutting out the waitstaff since those are the ones taking your order and bringing it to you.

cheungyinglon 6y ago

If you live in NYC, there's a nonprofit that helps you to easily find restaurants still open for pickup / delivery and to order directly: https://www.eatnyc.org/ https://www.eatnyc.org/. Restaurants keep 100% of the commission, so it really helps our favorite restaurants stay alive. They seem to have solid coverage in Manhattan.

smallgovt 6y ago
How do we support non-profit sites like this more? I think it's pretty absurd that Grubhub and Uber take such a large commission for what amounts to pretty basic software. But, I bet this site isn't getting much traction because it has no marketing budget (because it makes no profit).
- xapata 6y ago
  > in a weekend Sure. Why don't you make a competitor then? Get yourself bought for $$$. My guess is you'll discover it's far more difficult to onboard customers (restaurants are the customers) and consumers than you seem to think. Further, once it's mildly successful, it turns out maintenance is tough. Edit: Looks like the "in a weekend" assertion was retracted.
- cheungyinglon 6y ago
  I've been using this site to order from restaurants every week and sharing it with my friends. They also seem pretty responsive. I emailed them at hi@eatnyc.org to request a cuisine filter and they pushed it live the same day.
- testbot123 6y ago
  > for what amounts to pretty basic software I mean... and also an entire international coordinated delivery network, apps that work on all devices, background checks, vehicle registration and checking sites, marketing, huge expensive legal departments, etc. The original algorithm behind Google search was also "pretty basic software" but there's a lot more that goes into building a successful product than writing some code.

troydavis 6y ago

> take a huge portion of the (like 30%) of the ticket price just for delivery. At least for restaurants which don't offer delivery themselves (which is the vast majority), the delivery service may be creating more than 30% of the value of the final product. "A meal delivered to me from any restaurant within about 3 miles" is often a different product than "A meal that I need to spend 20-50 minutes going to and coming back from." Although they're similar, they aren't always substitutes for one another. Obviously the adoption of delivery speaks for itself, but beyond that, I think if one just asked buyers how much of the value is provided by the delivery company, many or most would say over 30%. The target market does not consider it "just delivery."

catalogia 6y ago

I've encountered a handful of restaurants that no longer take orders by phone. In one case you call the number still printed on their pizza boxes, you get a prerecorded message telling you they only take orders from grubhub now. Sadly this means I can no longer order from them.

paxys 6y ago

While I agree with the sentiment, if people had the ability to go pick up their own orders they wouldn't be using delivery services in the first place. Remember that it's completely optional for the restaurant to even support it.

chanmad29 6y ago

Not to forget the markup they charge from customers on the prices. Paid 10% more even on a pick up order from a restaurant downstairs. Learnt that the service is best used when you cannot drive to a certain place.