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Interesting thing... Vitamin D is one of those things that, when vitamins come up on HN, you will often hear the refrain that "it's the one vitamin that large n

Interesting thing... Vitamin D is one of those things that, when vitamins come up on HN, you will often hear the refrain that "it's the one vitamin that large numbers of people are actually deficient in and ought to supplement." I've heard that many times over the years and I have taken a Vitamin D supplement on and off (more off than on) over the years. When this COVID-19 thing first hit, I had a physical scheduled (by chance) just about the same time, and I'd heard about this Vitamin D / COVID-19 connection, so when I went in for my physical, I asked my doctor to order a Vitamin D test as part of my bloodwork. As it turns out, I was indeed very deficient in Vitamin D. I started taking 4000 IU a day and it's had a noticeable impact on my overall sense of wellbeing. It could, of course, be placebo effect even so. And I have no particular reason to think that it will make any difference one way or the other in terms of me getting COVID-19. But I thought it was worth pointing out one more anecdote that suggests that the old "Vitamin D is worth supplementing" refrain might just be true. If you're in doubt, and it's an option, do what I did... just ask your doctor to run a Vitamin D test next time you go in for a checkup / physical.

derekp7 7y ago
For generally fighting off viruses, I wonder if Vitamin D is the reason why many colds / flues tend to peak in the winter months and subside over the summer.
- iak8god 7y ago
  Influenza viruses have a protective sheath that works better in cold weather and allows them to survive longer outside a host: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/flu-virus-fortified-colder-weather https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/flu-vir...
nosefrog 7y ago
Same thing happened to me. I was in the single digits for Vitamin D, and my doc had me taking 10000 a day (or week) I think. Within a month, I started to feel way more energy in the afternoon (I used to feel dead by 1pm). I also mysteriously kept getting sick with small colds that winter before supplementing, and those also went away.
- matsemann 7y ago
  How is it taken in the rest of the world? In Norway, it's traditionally done by drinking cod liver oil daily during the winter months. At least that's what I do.
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    Cod liver oil, as well as the low-dose supplements, can prevent severe deficiency. No food source has enough Vitamin D to get to a healthy level however. If you cannot get sun, get a daily 4000 IU supplement.
    - mgummelt 7y ago
      Harvard Medical says that dosage is potentially unsafe: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/taking-too-much-vitamin-d-can-cloud-its-benefits-and-create-health-risks https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/taking-too-mu...
      - speakeron 7y ago
        It doesn't really say that: it just repeats the standard advice that 4000 IU is the safe upper limit. The real answer is to get yourself tested regularly if you supplement large amounts of D3. (I'd advise taking K2 with it too, but do your own research.)
        Darmody 7y ago
        My question is, does the k2 supplement make a difference? I'm asking this as someone who eats regularly a lot of greens.
      - sneak 7y ago
        No, they said to avoid taking more than that unless your doctor recommends it. No mention of safety.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
the_jeremy 7y ago
A psychiatrist I saw multiple years ago told me to start taking Vitamin D. I went more or less blindly with 5,000 IU after reading some internet articles. I got my blood checked last year and decided I should probably actually know if I'm doing too much or too little. I was within 5% of the middle of the healthy range for vitamin D levels. For reference, 5,000 IU is >800% the FDA daily recommended value. People with indoor jobs and hobbies are probably not getting enough.
- ashtonkem 7y ago
  Also, the absorption of it orally appears to be kind of finicky.
  - hollander 7y ago
    Vitamin D intake via supplements (vitamin pills) results in vitamin D storage in fat in you body. The storage decays over time, and it appears that intake via supplements decays twice as fast as intake via sun exposure.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - csdreamer7 7y ago
      Do you have a source?
  - jimmaswell 7y ago
    Some things like vitamin K and magneseum help absorbtion.
    - ashtonkem 7y ago
      Vitamin K (specifically K2) is personally on my short list of vitamins that I think Americans are short on.
- simonsarris 7y ago
ashtonkem 7y ago
Vitamin D isn’t even really a vitamin, if it were we wouldn’t be able to synthesize it. It’s actually a hormone. Now if you’ll excuse me, I think I’m going to take my next call out on the porch.
- minkeymaniac 7y ago
  It's both isn't? In pill form it's a vitamin... from the sun it's a hormone
  - ashtonkem 7y ago
    Same compound. The definition of vitamin includes the inability of the organism to synthesize it itself, so vitamin D can’t be an actual vitamin
    - ska 7y ago
      I suspect that is an idiosyncratic definition.
      - ashtonkem 7y ago
        “A vitamin is an organic molecule (or related set of molecules) that is an essential micronutrient which an organism needs in small quantities for the proper functioning of its metabolism. Essential nutrients cannot be synthesized in the organism, either at all or not in sufficient quantities, and therefore must be obtained through the diet.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin
        beagle3 7y ago
        By this definition you might argue that it's a vitamin north of some geographic line and a hormone south of that line .... Also, nicotinamide (one form of Vitamin B3) is a metabolite of niacin (nicotinic acid, another form of Vitamin B3). Humans can produce the former from the latter, but require at least one of them from the diet. Does that make niacin a vitamin, but nicotinamide a hormone? They are not equivalent, but as far as "being essential", they are substitutes. (No idea myself, just rumbling thoughts)
dfawcus 7y ago
FWIW: I stopped this[1] recently on Wikipedia. I'm sure someone could chase up more authoritative references. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system#Vitamin_D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system#Vitamin_D
subsubzero 7y ago
I also had a vitamin D deficiency that was found after a particularly bad string of colds, my Dr told me to take a supplement(5000ius daily) of vitamin D and have not seen anything like it since. Apparently windows cars/office block sunlight's ability to create vitamin D in a person so a car ride or sitting near an office window does not provide any help. And if you are in a office job you are def. not getting enough vitamin D.
- namdnay 7y ago
  > if you are in a office job you are def. not getting enough vitamin D. I think this really depends on location and lifestyle. Anyone in a Mediterranean or sunnier climate that spends more than 30mn a day outside will be fine
  - Florin_Andrei 7y ago
    I spend lots of time outside and I live in California. I still had life-long vit D deficiency, probably since birth. No idea why, might be something genetic. The only way I could figure it out was via blood tests, spaced a few years apart. First time the doctor said "hm, you're pretty low on vit D, you should supplement it". Second time, it was more like "you're really low and you should take XXX amount each day, NOW!" Big changes in terms of mood and "energy". I'm now kicking myself for not taking it earlier.
    - pascalxus 7y ago
      Sometimes deficiencies in other parts of your diet can reduce Vitamin D uptake, i remember reading somewhere. something to consider
    - mathiasrw 7y ago
      Vitamin D is not absorbed instantly when exposed to the sun. Soap and hot showers removes what is left so levels are also affected by personal hygiene habits.
  - Turing_Machine 7y ago
danenania 7y ago
Does anyone know of a rule of thumb for how much time spent in direct sunlight is equivalent to a Vitamin D supplement? Is an hour per day (on average) sufficient?
- mikedilger 7y ago
  I read Michael Holick's book (can't find it at the moment) he was the guy who discovered the circulating form of vitamin D.. IIRC you get vitamin D from the sun in rather large quantities. Just 15 minutes per day with only your face and hands exposed with the sun up at 45 degrees or more will be enough. I'm sure my data is not accurate, but it's in the ballpark. He has tables that depend on how dark your skin is and what latitude you live at.
  - nicoburns 7y ago
    I've also read that 15 minutes is sufficient. The caveat being that it may need to be strong(ish) sunlight, otherwise you may not generate any at all.
  - enitihas 7y ago
    Does one need exposure to direct sunlight, or sunlight coming via glass windows works?
    - James_Henry 7y ago
      Glass windows block the part of the UV spectrum that is needed to make Vit D. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/well/live/does-sunlight-through-glass-provide-vitamin-d.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/well/live/does-sunlight-t...
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - alfalfasprout 7y ago
    So, this is only partly true. You need direct sunlight AND the amount varies wildly depending on your skin color. If you're rather pale, it may be only 15 min. But it can go up to several hours if you're dark-skinned.
o10449366 7y ago
Likely placebo. Vitamin D is extremely soluble in our bodies and takes months of consistent supplement dosage to have an effect on our baseline levels.
- nicoburns 7y ago
  I had winter depression for years, and Vitamin D supplementation has all-but completely cured it. If I forget to take it for a few days (in the winter), then I really notice the difference, and taking the supplement (via drops) reliably helps within 2-3 hours of taking them. I don't see how this could be a placebo as 1. I wasn't really expecting them to work in the first place. 2. I've tried all sorts of things over the years to try and relieve my depression, and nothing else has worked. It's possible that raising baseline levels isn't actually required to have beneficial effects. Of course, the quantities of vitamin that aren't raising baseline levels must be going somewhere. It doesn't seem unlikely to me that at least some of it is going directly towards production of whatever things the body uses vitamin D for.
  - tinus_hn 7y ago
    The only way to be sure is to randomly take either the real preparation or some placebo that looks, tastes, smells etc. exactly the same so you can’t tell the difference. The placebo effect does not require you to believe in the cure.
    - retsibsi 7y ago
      To be sure, yeah, but if you've tried a bunch of things with no success, and then one thing works despite your having no real optimism for it, that's pretty suggestive of a non-placebo effect.
      - EricE 7y ago
        And even if it is a placebo - if you improve, who cares?!? I never get that for people who seem eager to dismiss a placebo effect as not having value because it isn’t “real” - whatever that means.
hornetblack 7y ago
You'd have to get follow up to see if Vitamin D has gone up after taking it. I was Wrong on the internet (lots of food has vitamin D including Eggs and Mushrooms): Vitamin D supplements may not be absorbed as digestion isn't the normal process for obtaining it.
- Broken_Hippo 7y ago
  Wouldn't a doctor simply test? I know when I was really low, the doctor scheduled me for a blood test after 3 months of prescription-dose vitamin D pills. We've also spot checked since then.
- mindcrime 7y ago
  Yeah, when I got back for my next checkup, I definitely plan to ask my doctor to order the Vitamin D test again so we can see how it's changed over time.
- randcraw 7y ago
  "Very few foods in nature contain vitamin D. The flesh of fatty fish (such as salmon, tuna, and mackerel) and fish liver oils are among the best sources [1,11]. Small amounts of vitamin D are found in beef liver, cheese, and egg yolks. Vitamin D in these foods is primarily in the form of vitamin D3 and its metabolite 25(OH)D3 [12]. Some mushrooms provide vitamin D2 in variable amounts [13,14]. Mushrooms with enhanced levels of vitamin D2 from being exposed to ultraviolet light under controlled conditions are also available." https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessiona...
axegon_ 7y ago
Well yes, Vitamin D is pretty hard to come around in the northern hemisphere so no surprise there. Mind you, it's far not the only thing - magnesium, zinc, selenium are just a few which most people are missing. I mean unless your diet consists entirely of tuna and salmon probably. Over the last few years, I've stressed significantly on my physical health(after being very overweight for the most of my adult life and now happy to say this is not the case anymore at all). And while Vitamin D has been one of the things I've become very strict about, my supplements menu has significantly expanded. And there are plenty of products which come bundled with your daily intake of vitamins and minerals. And one in particular has become a part of my breakfast at this point. I haven't had as much as a sneeze in the last two years, haven't felt even mild fatigue or exhaustion, even after the toughest of days. But as you said, it's best to consult a doctor first, especially if you have bad medical history. If you are healthy and fit though then there are plenty of good options to go with.
- JackMorgan 7y ago
  What is the one in particular?
  - axegon_ 7y ago
    See my other reply.
- M5x7wI3CmbEem10 7y ago
  what’s your stack look like? I’ve got D3, Zinc, and Magnesium. Occasionally a multivitamin, melatonin, or calcium (for arthritis)
  - axegon_ 7y ago
    I go for a bundle of these[1] every 2 or 3 days, depending on how often I train and in the days between D-3 (1000 IU), vitamin C+zinc (1000mg for C), magnesium citrate 200mg. IMPORTANT NOTE: I do train a lot and I'm in the 6-8% body fat range so generally I have higher needs. The ones in the link are bundled up in small bags of 11 pills and the values are for 2 packs of 11 which is a complete overkill if you are not a top tier athlete. 1 pack of 11 every 2 or 3 days is sufficient for regular people. [1] https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0944/0726/files/Universal-Animal-Pak-Supplement-Facts_1024x1024.jpg https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0944/0726/files/Universal-...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
matwood 7y ago
I'll have to get checked next time I'm at the doc. I'm pretty far south, so sunlight isn't normally an issue. I also enjoy a glass of milk every night for 'dessert'. It is fortified with some vitamin D, but I'm not sure how much. My bigger concern is probably skin cancer over lack of vitamin D though.
- bagacrap 7y ago
  the benefits of sunlight outweigh the risks. Avoid burning, but know that tanning is not correlated with melanoma (assuming you have skin that tans; otherwise, ignore this).
  - retsibsi 7y ago
    > tanning is not correlated with melanoma This conflicts with what I've always been taught, and with every high google result for 'tanning skin cancer'. (I'm in Australia, where the sun is especially damaging; but I'd be surprised if tanning were very dangerous here but fine elsewhere, and in any case the search results were not all local.) What are you basing it on?
    - WillPostForFood 7y ago
      It gets complicated. Sunburn (occasional high dose of sun) is unequivocally bad, and highly correlated with skin cancer. Regular, moderate exposure (could be described as tanning) is correlated to lower risk of cancer than getting little sun. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6313493/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6313493/ An examination of the current state of the scientific research shows that (i) severe sunburns are linked to increased risk of melanoma but non-burning sun exposure is linked to reduced risk of melanoma
tinus_hn 7y ago
If this has been suggested for some time it would be kind of odd that only one study has noticed the connection; this seems rather easy to test, right?
Ididntdothis 7y ago
How long did it take for you to notice a difference?
- mindcrime 7y ago
  I'd say after a week or two I felt like I could notice a difference.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    That sounds great. It should be an easy test.
Guest0918231 7y ago
I had mine checked because I was curious when I went for bloodwork a couple of years ago. I was expecting it would be low since I work indoors on a computer all day and my exposure to the sun in winter is limited. I think I was tested in late fall, and it was fairly expensive to have done (roughly $100 where I was in Europe). From what I remember, you're deficient if you're less than 12 ng/mL and mine was around 6 ng/mL. Of course I want to say I feel better, experience less winter blues, get sick less often, and have more energy since I started taking a supplement. I can't be certain of any of those things though. Maybe it makes a difference, maybe it doesn't. I feel decent these days, the numbers say I should take it, so that's why I take it.
mbreese 7y ago
Given the fact that vitamin D deficiency is really prevalent across the entire population, I’m not sure how much weight to give to this study...
hourislate 7y ago
Since you're taking Vitamin D, you might also want to see if you need Zinc. Both Vitamins account for the largest deficits in the population. You might want to consider taking a Magnesium supplement since taking Vitamin D which can lead to a deficiency in Magnesium. Vitamin C is worth taking a few times through out the day. The Trifecta is D,Zinc and C (with a magnesium supplement a few times a week).
- hellofunk 7y ago
  I have read more than one study in the years past that consistent use of vitamin C supplements actually leads to a weaker immune system in the long term.
sgustard 7y ago
Hmm, my doctor specifically said a few weeks ago: "During active COVID-19 infection symptoms (fever, cough), please AVOID these common supplements: Echinacea, Elderberry, Polysaccharide extracts from Medicinal Mushrooms and Vitamin D as these MAY theoretically exacerbate the cytokine inflammatory storm. It's OK to take them preventively (if you are already doing so) but please stop at the first sign of COVID-19 symptoms." Hence I've been avoiding adding Vitamin D to my daily ritual; anyone have any supporting data?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- zamfi 7y ago
  > "During active COVID-19 infection symptoms [...], please AVOID[...]" > Hence I've been avoiding adding Vitamin D Do you have active symptoms? The concern is about a studied connection between Vitamin D supplementation and an increase in concentration of the IL-1b inflammation marker (see, e.g., [1]), which has been implicated in cytokine storms. The other supplements mentioned have similar effects. This correlation suggests that you might not want to be taking Vitamin D if you're as risk of a cytokine storm hurting you. That said, however, vitamin D is also associated with strong anti-inflammatory properties of other markers, so really -- it's super hard to predict what will happen. As far as I know, no one has observed a connection between Vitamin D and cytokine storms directly, so the whole thing is kind of hypothetical. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4631349/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4631349/
  - Harvesterify 7y ago
    Well, vitamin D actually reduces the cytokin storm, so I don't really get why his/her doctor advised against it in the first place... https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/does-vitamin-d-protect-against-respiratory-viral-infections/7FDF0857C837FD464453882220BB7B29/core-reader https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-inf...
    - 7y ago
ganeshkrishnan 7y ago
What is your usual residence location? When I was in Australia I had no vitamin D deficiency at any part of my life. I moved to Canada two years ago and suddenly I was severely vitamin D deficient. And this also means that people with higher melanin residing in northern hemispheres are more at risk.
anonytrary 7y ago
I was also tested for Vitamin D deficiency and my doctor prescribed 50,000 ICU a week, followed by a much smaller amount per day afterwards. I noticed an improvement in my well-being as well (could have been psychological). My armchair hypothesis is that modern humans tend to be indoor creatures, yet our bodies evolved as if we were outdoor creatures, therefore we're supposed to be getting more sunlight and Vitamin D than we actually are.
8ytecoder 7y ago
I went to my doctor complaining about the general lack of energy. Turned out to be Vitamin D. I grew up in the tropics and the lack of sun had put me under a severe deficiency. Had to take prescription strength to get to normal. Since then that’s one supplement I never miss.
cjhanks 7y ago
Totally not a placebo. Vitamin-D fortified milk was a necessity (for me) in Portland to avoid depression.

derekp7 7y ago

For generally fighting off viruses, I wonder if Vitamin D is the reason why many colds / flues tend to peak in the winter months and subside over the summer.

iak8god 7y ago
Influenza viruses have a protective sheath that works better in cold weather and allows them to survive longer outside a host: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/flu-virus-fortified-colder-weather https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/flu-vir...

nosefrog 7y ago

Same thing happened to me. I was in the single digits for Vitamin D, and my doc had me taking 10000 a day (or week) I think. Within a month, I started to feel way more energy in the afternoon (I used to feel dead by 1pm). I also mysteriously kept getting sick with small colds that winter before supplementing, and those also went away.

matsemann 7y ago
How is it taken in the rest of the world? In Norway, it's traditionally done by drinking cod liver oil daily during the winter months. At least that's what I do.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  Cod liver oil, as well as the low-dose supplements, can prevent severe deficiency. No food source has enough Vitamin D to get to a healthy level however. If you cannot get sun, get a daily 4000 IU supplement.
  - mgummelt 7y ago
    Harvard Medical says that dosage is potentially unsafe: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/taking-too-much-vitamin-d-can-cloud-its-benefits-and-create-health-risks https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/taking-too-mu...
    - speakeron 7y ago
      It doesn't really say that: it just repeats the standard advice that 4000 IU is the safe upper limit. The real answer is to get yourself tested regularly if you supplement large amounts of D3. (I'd advise taking K2 with it too, but do your own research.)
      - Darmody 7y ago
        My question is, does the k2 supplement make a difference? I'm asking this as someone who eats regularly a lot of greens.
    - sneak 7y ago
      No, they said to avoid taking more than that unless your doctor recommends it. No mention of safety.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]

the_jeremy 7y ago

A psychiatrist I saw multiple years ago told me to start taking Vitamin D. I went more or less blindly with 5,000 IU after reading some internet articles. I got my blood checked last year and decided I should probably actually know if I'm doing too much or too little. I was within 5% of the middle of the healthy range for vitamin D levels. For reference, 5,000 IU is >800% the FDA daily recommended value. People with indoor jobs and hobbies are probably not getting enough.

ashtonkem 7y ago
Also, the absorption of it orally appears to be kind of finicky.
- hollander 7y ago
  Vitamin D intake via supplements (vitamin pills) results in vitamin D storage in fat in you body. The storage decays over time, and it appears that intake via supplements decays twice as fast as intake via sun exposure.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - csdreamer7 7y ago
    Do you have a source?
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  Some things like vitamin K and magneseum help absorbtion.
  - ashtonkem 7y ago
    Vitamin K (specifically K2) is personally on my short list of vitamins that I think Americans are short on.
simonsarris 7y ago

ashtonkem 7y ago

Vitamin D isn’t even really a vitamin, if it were we wouldn’t be able to synthesize it. It’s actually a hormone. Now if you’ll excuse me, I think I’m going to take my next call out on the porch.

minkeymaniac 7y ago
It's both isn't? In pill form it's a vitamin... from the sun it's a hormone
- ashtonkem 7y ago
  Same compound. The definition of vitamin includes the inability of the organism to synthesize it itself, so vitamin D can’t be an actual vitamin
  - ska 7y ago
    I suspect that is an idiosyncratic definition.
    - ashtonkem 7y ago
      “A vitamin is an organic molecule (or related set of molecules) that is an essential micronutrient which an organism needs in small quantities for the proper functioning of its metabolism. Essential nutrients cannot be synthesized in the organism, either at all or not in sufficient quantities, and therefore must be obtained through the diet.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin
      - beagle3 7y ago
        By this definition you might argue that it's a vitamin north of some geographic line and a hormone south of that line .... Also, nicotinamide (one form of Vitamin B3) is a metabolite of niacin (nicotinic acid, another form of Vitamin B3). Humans can produce the former from the latter, but require at least one of them from the diet. Does that make niacin a vitamin, but nicotinamide a hormone? They are not equivalent, but as far as "being essential", they are substitutes. (No idea myself, just rumbling thoughts)

dfawcus 7y ago

FWIW: I stopped this[1] recently on Wikipedia. I'm sure someone could chase up more authoritative references. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system#Vitamin_D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system#Vitamin_D

subsubzero 7y ago

I also had a vitamin D deficiency that was found after a particularly bad string of colds, my Dr told me to take a supplement(5000ius daily) of vitamin D and have not seen anything like it since. Apparently windows cars/office block sunlight's ability to create vitamin D in a person so a car ride or sitting near an office window does not provide any help. And if you are in a office job you are def. not getting enough vitamin D.

namdnay 7y ago
> if you are in a office job you are def. not getting enough vitamin D. I think this really depends on location and lifestyle. Anyone in a Mediterranean or sunnier climate that spends more than 30mn a day outside will be fine
- Florin_Andrei 7y ago
  I spend lots of time outside and I live in California. I still had life-long vit D deficiency, probably since birth. No idea why, might be something genetic. The only way I could figure it out was via blood tests, spaced a few years apart. First time the doctor said "hm, you're pretty low on vit D, you should supplement it". Second time, it was more like "you're really low and you should take XXX amount each day, NOW!" Big changes in terms of mood and "energy". I'm now kicking myself for not taking it earlier.
  - pascalxus 7y ago
    Sometimes deficiencies in other parts of your diet can reduce Vitamin D uptake, i remember reading somewhere. something to consider
  - mathiasrw 7y ago
    Vitamin D is not absorbed instantly when exposed to the sun. Soap and hot showers removes what is left so levels are also affected by personal hygiene habits.
- Turing_Machine 7y ago

danenania 7y ago

Does anyone know of a rule of thumb for how much time spent in direct sunlight is equivalent to a Vitamin D supplement? Is an hour per day (on average) sufficient?

mikedilger 7y ago
I read Michael Holick's book (can't find it at the moment) he was the guy who discovered the circulating form of vitamin D.. IIRC you get vitamin D from the sun in rather large quantities. Just 15 minutes per day with only your face and hands exposed with the sun up at 45 degrees or more will be enough. I'm sure my data is not accurate, but it's in the ballpark. He has tables that depend on how dark your skin is and what latitude you live at.
- nicoburns 7y ago
  I've also read that 15 minutes is sufficient. The caveat being that it may need to be strong(ish) sunlight, otherwise you may not generate any at all.
- enitihas 7y ago
  Does one need exposure to direct sunlight, or sunlight coming via glass windows works?
  - James_Henry 7y ago
    Glass windows block the part of the UV spectrum that is needed to make Vit D. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/well/live/does-sunlight-through-glass-provide-vitamin-d.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/well/live/does-sunlight-t...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- alfalfasprout 7y ago
  So, this is only partly true. You need direct sunlight AND the amount varies wildly depending on your skin color. If you're rather pale, it may be only 15 min. But it can go up to several hours if you're dark-skinned.

o10449366 7y ago

Likely placebo. Vitamin D is extremely soluble in our bodies and takes months of consistent supplement dosage to have an effect on our baseline levels.

nicoburns 7y ago
I had winter depression for years, and Vitamin D supplementation has all-but completely cured it. If I forget to take it for a few days (in the winter), then I really notice the difference, and taking the supplement (via drops) reliably helps within 2-3 hours of taking them. I don't see how this could be a placebo as 1. I wasn't really expecting them to work in the first place. 2. I've tried all sorts of things over the years to try and relieve my depression, and nothing else has worked. It's possible that raising baseline levels isn't actually required to have beneficial effects. Of course, the quantities of vitamin that aren't raising baseline levels must be going somewhere. It doesn't seem unlikely to me that at least some of it is going directly towards production of whatever things the body uses vitamin D for.
- tinus_hn 7y ago
  The only way to be sure is to randomly take either the real preparation or some placebo that looks, tastes, smells etc. exactly the same so you can’t tell the difference. The placebo effect does not require you to believe in the cure.
  - retsibsi 7y ago
    To be sure, yeah, but if you've tried a bunch of things with no success, and then one thing works despite your having no real optimism for it, that's pretty suggestive of a non-placebo effect.
    - EricE 7y ago
      And even if it is a placebo - if you improve, who cares?!? I never get that for people who seem eager to dismiss a placebo effect as not having value because it isn’t “real” - whatever that means.

hornetblack 7y ago

You'd have to get follow up to see if Vitamin D has gone up after taking it. I was Wrong on the internet (lots of food has vitamin D including Eggs and Mushrooms): Vitamin D supplements may not be absorbed as digestion isn't the normal process for obtaining it.

Broken_Hippo 7y ago
Wouldn't a doctor simply test? I know when I was really low, the doctor scheduled me for a blood test after 3 months of prescription-dose vitamin D pills. We've also spot checked since then.
mindcrime 7y ago
Yeah, when I got back for my next checkup, I definitely plan to ask my doctor to order the Vitamin D test again so we can see how it's changed over time.
randcraw 7y ago
"Very few foods in nature contain vitamin D. The flesh of fatty fish (such as salmon, tuna, and mackerel) and fish liver oils are among the best sources [1,11]. Small amounts of vitamin D are found in beef liver, cheese, and egg yolks. Vitamin D in these foods is primarily in the form of vitamin D3 and its metabolite 25(OH)D3 [12]. Some mushrooms provide vitamin D2 in variable amounts [13,14]. Mushrooms with enhanced levels of vitamin D2 from being exposed to ultraviolet light under controlled conditions are also available." https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessiona...

axegon_ 7y ago

Well yes, Vitamin D is pretty hard to come around in the northern hemisphere so no surprise there. Mind you, it's far not the only thing - magnesium, zinc, selenium are just a few which most people are missing. I mean unless your diet consists entirely of tuna and salmon probably. Over the last few years, I've stressed significantly on my physical health(after being very overweight for the most of my adult life and now happy to say this is not the case anymore at all). And while Vitamin D has been one of the things I've become very strict about, my supplements menu has significantly expanded. And there are plenty of products which come bundled with your daily intake of vitamins and minerals. And one in particular has become a part of my breakfast at this point. I haven't had as much as a sneeze in the last two years, haven't felt even mild fatigue or exhaustion, even after the toughest of days. But as you said, it's best to consult a doctor first, especially if you have bad medical history. If you are healthy and fit though then there are plenty of good options to go with.

JackMorgan 7y ago
What is the one in particular?
- axegon_ 7y ago
  See my other reply.
M5x7wI3CmbEem10 7y ago
what’s your stack look like? I’ve got D3, Zinc, and Magnesium. Occasionally a multivitamin, melatonin, or calcium (for arthritis)
- axegon_ 7y ago
  I go for a bundle of these[1] every 2 or 3 days, depending on how often I train and in the days between D-3 (1000 IU), vitamin C+zinc (1000mg for C), magnesium citrate 200mg. IMPORTANT NOTE: I do train a lot and I'm in the 6-8% body fat range so generally I have higher needs. The ones in the link are bundled up in small bags of 11 pills and the values are for 2 packs of 11 which is a complete overkill if you are not a top tier athlete. 1 pack of 11 every 2 or 3 days is sufficient for regular people. [1] https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0944/0726/files/Universal-Animal-Pak-Supplement-Facts_1024x1024.jpg https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0944/0726/files/Universal-...

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matwood 7y ago

I'll have to get checked next time I'm at the doc. I'm pretty far south, so sunlight isn't normally an issue. I also enjoy a glass of milk every night for 'dessert'. It is fortified with some vitamin D, but I'm not sure how much. My bigger concern is probably skin cancer over lack of vitamin D though.

bagacrap 7y ago
the benefits of sunlight outweigh the risks. Avoid burning, but know that tanning is not correlated with melanoma (assuming you have skin that tans; otherwise, ignore this).
- retsibsi 7y ago
  > tanning is not correlated with melanoma This conflicts with what I've always been taught, and with every high google result for 'tanning skin cancer'. (I'm in Australia, where the sun is especially damaging; but I'd be surprised if tanning were very dangerous here but fine elsewhere, and in any case the search results were not all local.) What are you basing it on?
  - WillPostForFood 7y ago
    It gets complicated. Sunburn (occasional high dose of sun) is unequivocally bad, and highly correlated with skin cancer. Regular, moderate exposure (could be described as tanning) is correlated to lower risk of cancer than getting little sun. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6313493/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6313493/ An examination of the current state of the scientific research shows that (i) severe sunburns are linked to increased risk of melanoma but non-burning sun exposure is linked to reduced risk of melanoma

tinus_hn 7y ago

If this has been suggested for some time it would be kind of odd that only one study has noticed the connection; this seems rather easy to test, right?

Ididntdothis 7y ago

How long did it take for you to notice a difference?

mindcrime 7y ago
I'd say after a week or two I felt like I could notice a difference.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  That sounds great. It should be an easy test.

Guest0918231 7y ago

I had mine checked because I was curious when I went for bloodwork a couple of years ago. I was expecting it would be low since I work indoors on a computer all day and my exposure to the sun in winter is limited. I think I was tested in late fall, and it was fairly expensive to have done (roughly $100 where I was in Europe). From what I remember, you're deficient if you're less than 12 ng/mL and mine was around 6 ng/mL. Of course I want to say I feel better, experience less winter blues, get sick less often, and have more energy since I started taking a supplement. I can't be certain of any of those things though. Maybe it makes a difference, maybe it doesn't. I feel decent these days, the numbers say I should take it, so that's why I take it.

mbreese 7y ago

Given the fact that vitamin D deficiency is really prevalent across the entire population, I’m not sure how much weight to give to this study...

hourislate 7y ago

Since you're taking Vitamin D, you might also want to see if you need Zinc. Both Vitamins account for the largest deficits in the population. You might want to consider taking a Magnesium supplement since taking Vitamin D which can lead to a deficiency in Magnesium. Vitamin C is worth taking a few times through out the day. The Trifecta is D,Zinc and C (with a magnesium supplement a few times a week).

hellofunk 7y ago
I have read more than one study in the years past that consistent use of vitamin C supplements actually leads to a weaker immune system in the long term.

sgustard 7y ago

Hmm, my doctor specifically said a few weeks ago: "During active COVID-19 infection symptoms (fever, cough), please AVOID these common supplements: Echinacea, Elderberry, Polysaccharide extracts from Medicinal Mushrooms and Vitamin D as these MAY theoretically exacerbate the cytokine inflammatory storm. It's OK to take them preventively (if you are already doing so) but please stop at the first sign of COVID-19 symptoms." Hence I've been avoiding adding Vitamin D to my daily ritual; anyone have any supporting data?

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zamfi 7y ago
> "During active COVID-19 infection symptoms [...], please AVOID[...]" > Hence I've been avoiding adding Vitamin D Do you have active symptoms? The concern is about a studied connection between Vitamin D supplementation and an increase in concentration of the IL-1b inflammation marker (see, e.g., [1]), which has been implicated in cytokine storms. The other supplements mentioned have similar effects. This correlation suggests that you might not want to be taking Vitamin D if you're as risk of a cytokine storm hurting you. That said, however, vitamin D is also associated with strong anti-inflammatory properties of other markers, so really -- it's super hard to predict what will happen. As far as I know, no one has observed a connection between Vitamin D and cytokine storms directly, so the whole thing is kind of hypothetical. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4631349/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4631349/
- Harvesterify 7y ago
  Well, vitamin D actually reduces the cytokin storm, so I don't really get why his/her doctor advised against it in the first place... https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/does-vitamin-d-protect-against-respiratory-viral-infections/7FDF0857C837FD464453882220BB7B29/core-reader https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-inf...
  - 7y ago

ganeshkrishnan 7y ago

What is your usual residence location? When I was in Australia I had no vitamin D deficiency at any part of my life. I moved to Canada two years ago and suddenly I was severely vitamin D deficient. And this also means that people with higher melanin residing in northern hemispheres are more at risk.

anonytrary 7y ago

I was also tested for Vitamin D deficiency and my doctor prescribed 50,000 ICU a week, followed by a much smaller amount per day afterwards. I noticed an improvement in my well-being as well (could have been psychological). My armchair hypothesis is that modern humans tend to be indoor creatures, yet our bodies evolved as if we were outdoor creatures, therefore we're supposed to be getting more sunlight and Vitamin D than we actually are.

8ytecoder 7y ago

I went to my doctor complaining about the general lack of energy. Turned out to be Vitamin D. I grew up in the tropics and the lack of sun had put me under a severe deficiency. Had to take prescription strength to get to normal. Since then that’s one supplement I never miss.

cjhanks 7y ago

Totally not a placebo. Vitamin-D fortified milk was a necessity (for me) in Portland to avoid depression.