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This is lazy reporting. It's not wrong, but there's no insight here. No critical assessment of the claims made in the video nor the Youtube T&C, just a few clic

This is lazy reporting. It's not wrong, but there's no insight here. No critical assessment of the claims made in the video nor the Youtube T&C, just a few clickbaity excerpts and some reaction comments. Compare with this excellent piece by the CBC on a somewhat similar viral video in Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/u-of-r-biology-prof-draws-ire-of-sask-scientists-1.5541748 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/u-of-r-biology-p...

isoskeles 7y ago
Is CBC known to question the position of Canadian government, especially the majority opinion there? They are a state-owned entity, as far as I know, but I'm not Canadian so I know little about how independently they operate.
- grecy 7y ago
  Like the British BBC and the Australian ABC, (and more?), the CBC is at arms length from the currently serving government, and was setup intentionally to be independent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Broadcasting_Corporation#Mandate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Broadcasting_Corporat...
  - octodog 7y ago
    Australians trust the ABC more than any other media outlets by quite a large margin too.
    - cycomanic 7y ago
      One of the reasons why the liberals (the Australian Conservative party) have been trying to gut and defund them. They are much happier with the murdoch press, who had headlines like "vote this bastards out" (don't remember the exact phrase but it was direct like that) as a headline some years ago arguing to vote out the Labour government. It's always interesting to see how some people always argue that news sources should be neutral and report only on facts if there are some left leaning opinions published, but completely ignore the blatant electioneering that goes on in the murdoch press.
- devtul 7y ago
  Living in Canada for about two years, so make whatever of my opinion. They seem very fond of the current government, they remind me of US media with Obama but way more subdued.
forgot_my_pwd 7y ago
But that misses the point. The very fact that a few people at Google/Youtube have the power to censor whomever they want for whatever reason they choose is a problem in itself. Are the doctors in the video saying untruths or misrepresenting data? I think what they said in the video was eminently reasonable. But perhaps I'm wrong. Luckily we have the freedom to publicly critique their claims - assuming our critiques aren't censored by major internet companies - which is how falsehoods and untruths should be dealt with, not with censorship.
- downerending 7y ago
  Google/YouTube is moving from annoying to disgusting. If the claims are wrong, take them apart. Censorship is not the way.
  - techntoke 7y ago
    Businesses have the right to refuse service, why should YouTube be any different? I think the solution is a decentralized video sharing platform.
    - golergka 7y ago
      > why should YouTube be any different? Because it's almost a monopoly. It's not one of roughly equal dozens video hosting services. It's freaking youtube.
      - olliej 7y ago
        No it’s not. There are innumerable hosting services. The crux is people wanting to spread their views but who don’t want to pay to do that.
        RonanTheGrey 7y ago
        > There are innumerable hosting services. Is this an honest comment or one you hope won't be challenged? There are NO video hosting services with the popularity or reach of YouTube, by a very long shot. Customers of ours have lost their entire livelihood because content that was present on YouTube for a decade was suddenly politically incorrect and their accounts got banned. That wouldn't be the case if they had more than one reasonable option.
tinalumfoil 7y ago
This level of reporting is pretty par for the course in US media. It's just reporting what happened without much commentary. And really, the idea that news media need to herd their audience into thinking the right things is ridiculous. It's a news article, not an editorial.
- gr33nman 7y ago
  I agree that it’s not the job of news media to herd their audience into thinking the right things. However, it is their duty to uncover and report the truth. “If someone says it's raining, and another person says it's dry, it's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the [expletive] window and find out which is true” -Jonathan Foster
  - beaner 7y ago
    I really disagree with this. Sometimes the important thing to know is just that a debate is happening. Then the reader can view both sides and make up their own mind. More often than not, the supposed responsibility to "uncover the truth" results in journalists inserting their own bias.
    - gr33nman 7y ago
      I share your concern about journalists inserting their own bias. A good journalist would investigate the factuality of claims by all parties in a story, not just the ones they agree with. Of course, bias does happen even with the best intentions, and that is why it is a good idea to read multiple news sources with good journalistic ethics (https://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp https://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp). Lazy “he said, she said” journalism, sometimes called “bothesidesism”, is dangerous to a free society because it enables propaganda and disinformation. Lay public do not have time or resources to debunk lies and find out which side in a public debate is telling the truth (if any). That is the sacred duty of a free press.
      - remarkEon 7y ago
devtul 7y ago
> there's no insight here I think that is great, I'm tired of articles that start by poisoning the well. Just tell me what happened, who said what when and let me try to reach my own conclusions. Many writers nowadays think they are some sort of missionary on a mission to save the pagans(us).
dangus 7y ago
That shouldn’t be surprising, The Blaze was founded by Glenn Beck. It’s not a reputable journalistic outlet.
- busymom0 7y ago
  What kind of argument is that? Political views are unimportant in this case and even if they were, Glenn has been more left and right leaning. Also YouTube removing the videos from 2 highly credentialed doctors is a verifiable fact, not some subjective theory.
  - dangus 7y ago
    I think you have trust working backwards. This is a media company that was founded only two years ago by a talk radio and television host who holds no journalism degree or higher education accreditation of any kind, who already runs a conservative media personality cult. And I’m expected to just keep an open mind about it and assume that this dude isn’t being disingenuous.
    - busymom0 7y ago
      > far right People have started labelling anything they disagree with as "far right" now a days. How exactly is wanting to work to be able to pay the bills and take care for ones family a "far right" thing? How is calling out the rise in domestic abuse, child abuse, suicides, mental health issues a "far right" thing? I have many friends both left and right leaning who are struggling to pay the bills and have businesses shutdown with massive losses wanting to return back to work. Also one could say the same thing about left leaning media (95% of the mainstream media and tech companies). When we start labelling everything we disagree with as "BAD NAME", we are living in a sad world. And in case it matters (I feel like it does to you), I am a brown immigrant myself.
  - p1necone 7y ago
    It's not a case of right or left leaning bias here - Glenn Beck pushes conspiracy theories and things that just aren't true. There's a difference between political leanings and full on crackpot journalism.
briefcomment 7y ago
Can someone address the claim that death certificates coerce doctors to list COVID as the cause of death even if it hasn't been shown definitively to be the case? Is this a thing?
- busymom0 7y ago
  Might be something related to this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fac... Also the number of deaths being reported in US includes "probable deaths" which are not confirmed COVID cases. It's even more than the actual confirmed cases. Look at the graph on the last page for NYC for example: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-deaths-confirmed-probable-daily-04222020.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-d...
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  We can make a pretty good estimate of COVID deaths by comparing against past years. There's a clear, large spike - NYC's death rate is six times the average for this time of year. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/coronavirus-deaths-new-york-city.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/corona... Giving that we're still low on tests, if someone dies before a test of COVID-like symptoms, it makes sense to consider them a probable (and save the test for someone alive) if deaths are 6x normal - you've got a roughly 5/6 chance of being correct.
  - briefcomment 7y ago
    This is interesting. I'm a little confused though. Life expectancy has been on a consistent decline for the last few years, particularly in the US. On top of the declining life expectancy, there should presumably be more people dying as a result of a growing population. In the graphs, they show multiple years. Why do weekly deaths from the last several years, broken out by year, basically look the same?
AareyBaba 7y ago
The video is still up on Youtube at https://youtu.be/2h2QMkS5Ftw?t=2 https://youtu.be/2h2QMkS5Ftw?t=2

isoskeles 7y ago

Is CBC known to question the position of Canadian government, especially the majority opinion there? They are a state-owned entity, as far as I know, but I'm not Canadian so I know little about how independently they operate.

grecy 7y ago
Like the British BBC and the Australian ABC, (and more?), the CBC is at arms length from the currently serving government, and was setup intentionally to be independent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Broadcasting_Corporation#Mandate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Broadcasting_Corporat...
- octodog 7y ago
  Australians trust the ABC more than any other media outlets by quite a large margin too.
  - cycomanic 7y ago
    One of the reasons why the liberals (the Australian Conservative party) have been trying to gut and defund them. They are much happier with the murdoch press, who had headlines like "vote this bastards out" (don't remember the exact phrase but it was direct like that) as a headline some years ago arguing to vote out the Labour government. It's always interesting to see how some people always argue that news sources should be neutral and report only on facts if there are some left leaning opinions published, but completely ignore the blatant electioneering that goes on in the murdoch press.
devtul 7y ago
Living in Canada for about two years, so make whatever of my opinion. They seem very fond of the current government, they remind me of US media with Obama but way more subdued.

forgot_my_pwd 7y ago

But that misses the point. The very fact that a few people at Google/Youtube have the power to censor whomever they want for whatever reason they choose is a problem in itself. Are the doctors in the video saying untruths or misrepresenting data? I think what they said in the video was eminently reasonable. But perhaps I'm wrong. Luckily we have the freedom to publicly critique their claims - assuming our critiques aren't censored by major internet companies - which is how falsehoods and untruths should be dealt with, not with censorship.

downerending 7y ago
Google/YouTube is moving from annoying to disgusting. If the claims are wrong, take them apart. Censorship is not the way.
- techntoke 7y ago
  Businesses have the right to refuse service, why should YouTube be any different? I think the solution is a decentralized video sharing platform.
  - golergka 7y ago
    > why should YouTube be any different? Because it's almost a monopoly. It's not one of roughly equal dozens video hosting services. It's freaking youtube.
    - olliej 7y ago
      No it’s not. There are innumerable hosting services. The crux is people wanting to spread their views but who don’t want to pay to do that.
      - RonanTheGrey 7y ago
        > There are innumerable hosting services. Is this an honest comment or one you hope won't be challenged? There are NO video hosting services with the popularity or reach of YouTube, by a very long shot. Customers of ours have lost their entire livelihood because content that was present on YouTube for a decade was suddenly politically incorrect and their accounts got banned. That wouldn't be the case if they had more than one reasonable option.

tinalumfoil 7y ago

This level of reporting is pretty par for the course in US media. It's just reporting what happened without much commentary. And really, the idea that news media need to herd their audience into thinking the right things is ridiculous. It's a news article, not an editorial.

gr33nman 7y ago
I agree that it’s not the job of news media to herd their audience into thinking the right things. However, it is their duty to uncover and report the truth. “If someone says it's raining, and another person says it's dry, it's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the [expletive] window and find out which is true” -Jonathan Foster
- beaner 7y ago
  I really disagree with this. Sometimes the important thing to know is just that a debate is happening. Then the reader can view both sides and make up their own mind. More often than not, the supposed responsibility to "uncover the truth" results in journalists inserting their own bias.
  - gr33nman 7y ago
    I share your concern about journalists inserting their own bias. A good journalist would investigate the factuality of claims by all parties in a story, not just the ones they agree with. Of course, bias does happen even with the best intentions, and that is why it is a good idea to read multiple news sources with good journalistic ethics (https://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp https://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp). Lazy “he said, she said” journalism, sometimes called “bothesidesism”, is dangerous to a free society because it enables propaganda and disinformation. Lay public do not have time or resources to debunk lies and find out which side in a public debate is telling the truth (if any). That is the sacred duty of a free press.
    - remarkEon 7y ago

devtul 7y ago

> there's no insight here I think that is great, I'm tired of articles that start by poisoning the well. Just tell me what happened, who said what when and let me try to reach my own conclusions. Many writers nowadays think they are some sort of missionary on a mission to save the pagans(us).

dangus 7y ago

That shouldn’t be surprising, The Blaze was founded by Glenn Beck. It’s not a reputable journalistic outlet.

busymom0 7y ago
What kind of argument is that? Political views are unimportant in this case and even if they were, Glenn has been more left and right leaning. Also YouTube removing the videos from 2 highly credentialed doctors is a verifiable fact, not some subjective theory.
- dangus 7y ago
  I think you have trust working backwards. This is a media company that was founded only two years ago by a talk radio and television host who holds no journalism degree or higher education accreditation of any kind, who already runs a conservative media personality cult. And I’m expected to just keep an open mind about it and assume that this dude isn’t being disingenuous.
  - busymom0 7y ago
    > far right People have started labelling anything they disagree with as "far right" now a days. How exactly is wanting to work to be able to pay the bills and take care for ones family a "far right" thing? How is calling out the rise in domestic abuse, child abuse, suicides, mental health issues a "far right" thing? I have many friends both left and right leaning who are struggling to pay the bills and have businesses shutdown with massive losses wanting to return back to work. Also one could say the same thing about left leaning media (95% of the mainstream media and tech companies). When we start labelling everything we disagree with as "BAD NAME", we are living in a sad world. And in case it matters (I feel like it does to you), I am a brown immigrant myself.
- p1necone 7y ago
  It's not a case of right or left leaning bias here - Glenn Beck pushes conspiracy theories and things that just aren't true. There's a difference between political leanings and full on crackpot journalism.

briefcomment 7y ago

Can someone address the claim that death certificates coerce doctors to list COVID as the cause of death even if it hasn't been shown definitively to be the case? Is this a thing?

busymom0 7y ago
Might be something related to this: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fac... Also the number of deaths being reported in US includes "probable deaths" which are not confirmed COVID cases. It's even more than the actual confirmed cases. Look at the graph on the last page for NYC for example: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-deaths-confirmed-probable-daily-04222020.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/imm/covid-19-d...
ceejayoz 7y ago
We can make a pretty good estimate of COVID deaths by comparing against past years. There's a clear, large spike - NYC's death rate is six times the average for this time of year. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/coronavirus-deaths-new-york-city.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/corona... Giving that we're still low on tests, if someone dies before a test of COVID-like symptoms, it makes sense to consider them a probable (and save the test for someone alive) if deaths are 6x normal - you've got a roughly 5/6 chance of being correct.
- briefcomment 7y ago
  This is interesting. I'm a little confused though. Life expectancy has been on a consistent decline for the last few years, particularly in the US. On top of the declining life expectancy, there should presumably be more people dying as a result of a growing population. In the graphs, they show multiple years. Why do weekly deaths from the last several years, broken out by year, basically look the same?

AareyBaba 7y ago

The video is still up on Youtube at https://youtu.be/2h2QMkS5Ftw?t=2 https://youtu.be/2h2QMkS5Ftw?t=2