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As a millennial college graduate, my number one piece of advice to college bound high schoolers is do the first two years at community college. The debt is not

As a millennial college graduate, my number one piece of advice to college bound high schoolers is do the first two years at community college. The debt is not worth the experience. Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out, community college is a great place to do that. I didn't even know this was an option until after college and I feel failed by my high school college advisors. Unless you are very confident in what you want to do and get into a very good college you don't think you can get into again, get a full ride, or have ridiculously rich parents, go to community college. Edit: perhaps full ride is too strict a requirement. If you can save money by going to community college, taking into account lost scholarships, you should go to community college.

wikibob 7y ago
Disagree. Graduation rates are drastically lower from community colleges. There is vastly less academic support available. The people around you will be vastly less ambitious. This will rub off on you. Yes 4 year university is now overpriced in America. But if you can, go to a 4 year university. Yes maybe go to an in-state university instead of out of state if that is cheaper, or go where you get the best financial aid.
- RHSeeger 7y ago
  Also, make sure that the college(s) you want to go to have a plan in place to accept transfers from the one you want to start at. It does you no good to get two years under your belt at college A in preparation for college B, then find out college B is going to make you start over because the credits don't transfer. Also, how hard is it to get a spot in college B as a transfer from college A. You should know this going in.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  What exactly is the negative consequence you are envisioning from 2 years at community college and 2 years at your in-state 4-year school, vs. all four years at the latter? The typical alternative that people need to be guided away from is one of the for-profit "career" schools that doesn't have transferable credits and is way more expensive than community college.
  - ForHackernews 7y ago
    A lot of people I went to high school with chose to stay home and go to community college to figure things out. Most of them puttered around for a year or two, studying part time while working, eventually getting distracted and abandoning their degree plans. I think I can count on one hand the kids who actually transferred to a 4-year university and finished their bachelors degree. I guess dropping out of a community college is a less costly misfire than dropping out of an expensive 4-year university, but anecdotally the people who went straight to university tended to stay there and finish. Obviously, this wasn't a controlled study and the university crew were probably more academically-minded to start with, but it is an observation.
    - electriclove 7y ago
      Not sure why you are getting downvoted. What you said is actually true for many that go to community colleges. Do people disagree about this? I think there are many positives to attend a community college first but there are also several drawbacks that need to be acknowledged.
      - pnw_hazor 7y ago
        Staying home and puttering around at a CC can be a better choice than spending time at a big school if you are not ready for it. Especially if you are paying private or non-resident tuition. My daughter's freshmen dorm roommate should have stayed home. She spent much of her time pining for her boyfriend at home, rarely doing anything outside of class. She got pregnant by the boyfriend and now is dropped out. Kind of a bummer really, she is an under-represented minority who had a full-ride for Chemical Engineering.
      - perl4ever 7y ago
        Assuming it's true for many that go to community colleges, why are people so committed to the idea that it's cause and effect? What does this claimed pattern have to do with anything inherent about a community college? Overspending to make a big commitment to something in the hopes that leads to success is generally, on average, terrible advice, in my opinion, even if you think there's some example of it working for somebody at some time.
- phrodo 7y ago
  Could it be that the perceived necessity of attending a 4 year school from the get-go is causing some of these issues? If the expectation is that good students go to 4 year schools, which I believe it currently is, then only the less ambitious students will go to community colleges. It's a positive feedback loop that could be broken by making prospective students aware of the financial and self-discovery benefits of community colleges. Some of the best professors I had were at the community college I attended before transferring to a much larger 4 year school. The class sizes were smaller and they had more time to help their students than their 4 year school counterparts.
- jimbob45 7y ago
  Hard disagree. You’ll find just as many unambitious individuals in any given first-year course at a university as you might at a CC. It’s a better investment all around.
- ivarv 7y ago
  I think OP was suggesting to go to a community college for the first two years, then transfer to a university for the second half of your undergrad. Most colleges (at least in Canada & US) have transferable credits at this level. I agree with OP that this is a good approach. In addition to being cheaper, the community college experience tends to be better in the first year or two because the instructor to student ratio in the mandatory courses tends to be better.
- netsharc 7y ago
  As a EUian: look overseas. Many universities in Europe offer programs in English. It'll be an even mind-broadening experience, and it's significantly more affordable (I'll take this link from 2018 as a baseline: https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/how-much-does-it-cost-study-europe https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance... ).
  - sverhagen 7y ago
    As a EUian, college in your own country could be near free, some fees but heavily government sponsored. For foreign students the pricing model is completely different, in fact this is the college's big cash cow, so that may make the equation very different for those you're so kindly inviting in. I'm all for the exchange experience, though!
- briandear 7y ago
  > The people around you will be vastly less ambitious. This will rub off on you. Most community college people I have encountered are extremely ambitious — they are working full time while busting ass to achieve in school. The myth that community college is a bastion of the academically weak is wrong. I saw plenty of people at my prestigious school with ambitions that centered around parties and getting laid.
  - intrepidhero 7y ago
    This was my experience as well. Pretty much everyone at CC was there to get an education, usually with specific employment goals. At University, it was more like 50%.
- serf 7y ago
  >Graduation rates are drastically lower from community colleges. how is that a useful metric for anything, really? Look how many extra programs pull people into community colleges, and look at the difference in accessibility between community colleges and universities. A stay-at-home mother isn't going to be eyeballing Stanford as a viable way to get her nursing degree with night classes. In the same instance, a stay-at-home mother who is using community college in order to get a degree necessarily has a lot more difficulty in managing her time and money than a university aged adult being sent to university by their parents with far fewer personal responsibilities and burdens. The stay-at-home mother will necessarily have higher drop-out rates just simply from things that exist as burdens in their life from the get-go. As will the displaced worker who is being funded by the state for re-training at their local colleges. University life is designed to reduce burden on the student in order to facilitate their learning. Comparing metrics like drop-out rates between universities and community colleges is wholly unfair. They both result in degrees, but they serve (mostly) different communities of people.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    I don't know. I have a friend who got a PhD from UW as a "stay at home mother".
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    It's a metric of exactly what you're describing. Going to a community college means immersing yourself in a community of people who see academics as a more of a luxury and less of a necessity; people who have other priorities in life, and will only participate to the extent that it doesn't interfere with their more important goals and obligations.
  - drngdds 7y ago
    >They both result in degrees, but they serve (mostly) different communities of people. Right - and if you're a recent high school grad with the grades to go to a good state school (not just Berkeley or whatever) and a desire to be around your peers while fully dedicating yourself to your education, you're not really in the target audience for community college.
- pnw_hazor 7y ago
  Depends on the schools I guess. My peers at a top 10 public school didn't get nearly the pre-engineering education I got at a nearby community college. Primarily because their core courses (math, physics, chemistry) were weed out courses for engineering and med school with 200-300 people in them. In contrast, my core courses had about 20-40 people in them. Note, I am not claiming any prescience here. I didn't have a choice in the matter. I started my pre-engineering slog at Math 085 (Pre-Algebra 2, I think) at CC after four years in the Army. Circumstances are much different for my kids, one went to Westpoint (USMA) and the other is going to a big state school, but she is in their honors college. So, honor college courses and AP credits have enabled her to bypass the weed-out jumbo core classes. And, I am paying for everything so loans are not a concern for her.
lilt 7y ago
I don't think you read the article. It's telling people to defer a year because of coronavirus, not the usual college is not worth it schpeel. That being said, I disagree with your advice in two cases: 1) Most top schools offer free tuition if your family income is below a generous threshold (like $150k). If you can get into Stanford and meet this criteria, it's cheaper than your local community college. 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life. If you are an average student and studying a non-technical field, then the decision is not as clear.
- frankbreetz 7y ago
  I read the article and I am saying instead of deferring a year of college go to community college. You should do this regardless of the covid.
  - DennisP 7y ago
    Yes if, as he says, you're satisfied with your community college being mostly remote classes, because that could well be what you end up with.
- pfranz 7y ago
  > 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life. What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable. They did say, "Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out". I went to college knowing I wanted to study computers, but didn't know what specifically. If I changed fields I'd still have the first 2 years to pay back. I wish I had gone to a community college first. I overpaid for a worse educational experience. There was too much competition for core classes. So you had to wait semesters to get in. When you did get in the class sizes were much larger. Equivalent, transferrable classes were available, cheaper, and had smaller class sizes at nearby community colleges.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
If you have a scholarship, this advice may not be good. I think most scholarships expect you to start that fall; if you don't, you may lose the scholarship. (Some or all of them will accept a "gap year", but most won't accept you going to community college for two years and then trying to take the scholarship. Or at least, that's how I think it is. Your mileage may vary, so if you have a scholarship offer, check the rules for that scholarship rather than listening to me.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  Many scholarships are available to students while in college. Many people don't even apply to them because they don't know about them or care at that point. Where I went, the Student Affairs office knew more about scholarships than the financial aid office.
  - RandomBacon 7y ago
    I wonder why the downvote? If you, or if you have kids going to college, make sure they're on every internal mailing list possible that college has. That's how I found out about a lot of scholarships. I didn't have any debt because I found out about the scholarships and asked staff and professors to nominate me. A professor who hears about a scholarship, or a department head who emails their staff, generally doesn't think to include the financial aid office, or any other office in the university.
- devNoise 7y ago
  I'm on the fence about how scholarships should factor into the total cost of college. I feel like there is a decent amount of scholarship money freshmen year that disappears after that. So that the student ends up with a lot of student loans debt to finish school. It's all well and good that freshmen at an expensive college will be cheaper than some alternate school. Though is it really going to be cheaper overall? I don't think so and this is how lots of students end up with to much student debt.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
chrisweekly 7y ago
A primary reason to attend the most exclusive college you can is the academic caliber of your fellow students.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  You mean high socioeconomic caliber, don't you? High academic caliber peers are easily available online.
  - marcinzm 7y ago
    Given that probably the biggest by far factor for success in most anything is connections and networking the later is a lot less useful than the former.
MyHypatia 7y ago
Strongly agree. Community college enabled me to knock out almost 2 years of school in 1 year by taking classes during the regular semester, weekend classes, online classes, and summer classes. I also saved tens of thousands of dollars, and had much smaller class sizes than at the university. My professors were only focused on educating, not research, not arguing over grant money, and not flying around to conferences. I found my community college classmates more mature. Many students in the university seemed to be there because their parents wanted them to be there.
- derangedHorse 7y ago
  I've noticed that a lot of the students at the community college I went to were more mature as well. They all had stronger convictions for going to school as most of them were older and had spouses and children they were trying to build a better life for. Other types I found were people who were switching careers due to a life-changing event (pregnancy, work accident, rent increases) and even a good amount of immigrants who were fervently trying to pursue the American dream. All of them had a lot to lose if they didn't succeed, and I believed they worked so hard because all of them knew what it was to fail, unlike many of us high school grads. Needless to say the mentality at my community college helped build strong study habits within me, and inspired me to hang in there when times got tough (just like the classmates I used to work with did).
intopieces 7y ago
I got what I still think is the sweetest deal: I was able to take all but one of my classes at community college for my freshman year, while living in the dorms at the state university. It was cheaper to do it that way and the experience was practically the same. In fact, I'm not sure most of my friends even remembered that's what I was doing, since we all had different majors and classes anyway.
veeralpatel979 7y ago
Pro tip: if you live in California, there's something called IGETC, which is a set of GE classes you can take at a community college. Look up the equivalent in your state. Once you do that, you don't have to take GE classes at most UCs and CSUs. Transfer students typically take IGETC classes at community college, which is what allows them to graduate in 2 years once they transfer. I realized I could take these classes while in high school and so I finished all my IGETC classes while in high school. It did a middle college program my senior year, but even if I didn't I probably could still finished IGETC, by taking community college classes online and using AP scores. This allowed me to graduate in 2.5 years from UC Berkeley with a CS degree. I didn't have to take any GE classes at all in college (though of course I could've if I wanted to). I then paid off my student debt after a couple months of starting my first job. This is the best of both worlds: don't spend two years at a CC (which was never too fun for me) and also graduate early from whatever college you go to. This trick worked for me because I knew from the start I wanted to go to Cal or another UC. If my goal was to go to a private or Ivy League school, this wouldn't have worked. I do kind of regret not applying to Stanford or any Ivy League schools, but I think going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to go to a more prestigious school, and having to stay there longer, just isn't worth it. I would've gone to Cal even if I got into these schools for this reason. Especially as someone who wants to start a startup, this much debt will make you a lot less willing and able to take risks.
- harrydehal 7y ago
  I took a similar path to you. I did 2 years at CC and 1.5 years at UC. And oh man, IGETC is bringing back some memories. The resource I found useful for CC students in California was the https://assist.org https://assist.org tool to 1:1 map out your CC units against your CSU/UC credits so you are in and out of there efficiently (or better yet, are able to sign a guaranteed transfer agreement which can relieve some long-term stress about the admissions process). Bonus points -- at least when I was at CC, I recall SATs were not required (although I had done them during high school), nor were the foreign language requirements quite as stringent!
buzzert 7y ago
Anecdotally, I felt like 4 years at a university was not enough time to really grasp the college experience. Also maybe a lot of American students aren’t aware of this, but there are many “needs based” government scholarships out there that can make your state university effectively free to attend. I attended a state university from 08-12 and didn’t pay a dime, thanks to the Pell Grant and some needs-based scholarships from my state (Arizona Assurance). It seems like the rough spot with regards to paying for college is being too rich to qualify for the needs-based scholarships and too poor to have your parents be able to afford everything. For that, I sympathize and would probably recommend the community college approach.
gumby 7y ago
I don’t think your point is germane to the article, but to support it nonetheless: I love to hire folks, even new graduates, who did the CC-to-UC track, and am sorry than many are embarrassed about it. They tend to have better focus and be more fun to work with. I have a couple of friends who teach at CC in the Bay Area, one of whom was previously an assistant prof at Stanford for a couple of years.* They both have told me that they like the CC Because the students want to be there, do their homework, and want to learn. I remember as a TA that many Stanford students didn’t seem all that dedicated to doing their homework unless it counted in the grade, though all of them were smart and interesting. * I believe Stanford didn’t value his contributions and encouraged him to seek alternative employment. This was a long time ago.
harrydehal 7y ago
I cannot agree with you more. I'm also in that broad spectrum of "millennial college graduate" -- specifically, my college years were during the beginning of the last financial crisis (the 2008 "great recession"). I remember the stigma about going to community college (even in the Bay Area, California) when all my high school peers were going straight to Stanford, UC Berkeley, Brown, etc. But I remember that the CC classes were tough, afforded me a ton of independence and personal responsibility, and to my surprise, found my professors were also concurrently teaching at Stanford or UC Berkeley. The CC had guaranteed transfer agreements with certain University of California (UC) campuses, and also had a neat program called https://assist.org https://assist.org which allows students to be smart about mapping the relevant CC courses with the equivalent [transferable] courses at the 4-year institution of choice. I saved a ton of money, worked my way through CC, took a gap year to work full-time to save up (and/or internships to build my resume), and was able to graduate UC in only 1.5 years afterwards (while also working on campus). E.g. 2 years CC + 1.5 years UC. Sure, I missed out on some college experiences, but I matured quick, it allowed me to ride out the recession into a very strong position, and I cannot recommend it enough to young folks today. Especially today. For those wondering, I graduated into a down market, but ended up in various tech and engineering positions, with no discernible difference between my peers who had gone straight to Stanford or Brown or wherever else -- and in most cases, I somehow [luckily?] ended up faring a lot better than most of them. Lastly -- your resume will only reflect the diploma from the 4-year institution, not that anyone's asked, but you do not get put into a second-tier or second-class position because you started at a CC and transferred into a UC or 4-year, which I recall, was one of my early worries when I was starting. I'd love to reverse the stigma about CC's, because I'm immensely proud whenever I see other CC success stories -- it is the path less taken, and in many cases a lot harder upfront because of that stigma and the amount of independence and personal responsibility involved -- but I think the dividends can be rewarding long-term.
vntx 7y ago
This is optimal advice. I got a full ride to a decent state university but I wasted the first 3/4 trying to figure everything out myself because my high school college advisors were useless and because my parents had never been to college so they couldn’t help me out either. Going to community college first is cheaper and oftentimes, some professors I had at university showed up in community to teach The same courses so it’s better value too.

wikibob 7y ago

Disagree. Graduation rates are drastically lower from community colleges. There is vastly less academic support available. The people around you will be vastly less ambitious. This will rub off on you. Yes 4 year university is now overpriced in America. But if you can, go to a 4 year university. Yes maybe go to an in-state university instead of out of state if that is cheaper, or go where you get the best financial aid.

RHSeeger 7y ago
Also, make sure that the college(s) you want to go to have a plan in place to accept transfers from the one you want to start at. It does you no good to get two years under your belt at college A in preparation for college B, then find out college B is going to make you start over because the credits don't transfer. Also, how hard is it to get a spot in college B as a transfer from college A. You should know this going in.
perl4ever 7y ago
What exactly is the negative consequence you are envisioning from 2 years at community college and 2 years at your in-state 4-year school, vs. all four years at the latter? The typical alternative that people need to be guided away from is one of the for-profit "career" schools that doesn't have transferable credits and is way more expensive than community college.
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  A lot of people I went to high school with chose to stay home and go to community college to figure things out. Most of them puttered around for a year or two, studying part time while working, eventually getting distracted and abandoning their degree plans. I think I can count on one hand the kids who actually transferred to a 4-year university and finished their bachelors degree. I guess dropping out of a community college is a less costly misfire than dropping out of an expensive 4-year university, but anecdotally the people who went straight to university tended to stay there and finish. Obviously, this wasn't a controlled study and the university crew were probably more academically-minded to start with, but it is an observation.
  - electriclove 7y ago
    Not sure why you are getting downvoted. What you said is actually true for many that go to community colleges. Do people disagree about this? I think there are many positives to attend a community college first but there are also several drawbacks that need to be acknowledged.
    - pnw_hazor 7y ago
      Staying home and puttering around at a CC can be a better choice than spending time at a big school if you are not ready for it. Especially if you are paying private or non-resident tuition. My daughter's freshmen dorm roommate should have stayed home. She spent much of her time pining for her boyfriend at home, rarely doing anything outside of class. She got pregnant by the boyfriend and now is dropped out. Kind of a bummer really, she is an under-represented minority who had a full-ride for Chemical Engineering.
    - perl4ever 7y ago
      Assuming it's true for many that go to community colleges, why are people so committed to the idea that it's cause and effect? What does this claimed pattern have to do with anything inherent about a community college? Overspending to make a big commitment to something in the hopes that leads to success is generally, on average, terrible advice, in my opinion, even if you think there's some example of it working for somebody at some time.
phrodo 7y ago
Could it be that the perceived necessity of attending a 4 year school from the get-go is causing some of these issues? If the expectation is that good students go to 4 year schools, which I believe it currently is, then only the less ambitious students will go to community colleges. It's a positive feedback loop that could be broken by making prospective students aware of the financial and self-discovery benefits of community colleges. Some of the best professors I had were at the community college I attended before transferring to a much larger 4 year school. The class sizes were smaller and they had more time to help their students than their 4 year school counterparts.
jimbob45 7y ago
Hard disagree. You’ll find just as many unambitious individuals in any given first-year course at a university as you might at a CC. It’s a better investment all around.
ivarv 7y ago
I think OP was suggesting to go to a community college for the first two years, then transfer to a university for the second half of your undergrad. Most colleges (at least in Canada & US) have transferable credits at this level. I agree with OP that this is a good approach. In addition to being cheaper, the community college experience tends to be better in the first year or two because the instructor to student ratio in the mandatory courses tends to be better.
netsharc 7y ago
As a EUian: look overseas. Many universities in Europe offer programs in English. It'll be an even mind-broadening experience, and it's significantly more affordable (I'll take this link from 2018 as a baseline: https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/how-much-does-it-cost-study-europe https://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance... ).
- sverhagen 7y ago
  As a EUian, college in your own country could be near free, some fees but heavily government sponsored. For foreign students the pricing model is completely different, in fact this is the college's big cash cow, so that may make the equation very different for those you're so kindly inviting in. I'm all for the exchange experience, though!
briandear 7y ago
> The people around you will be vastly less ambitious. This will rub off on you. Most community college people I have encountered are extremely ambitious — they are working full time while busting ass to achieve in school. The myth that community college is a bastion of the academically weak is wrong. I saw plenty of people at my prestigious school with ambitions that centered around parties and getting laid.
- intrepidhero 7y ago
  This was my experience as well. Pretty much everyone at CC was there to get an education, usually with specific employment goals. At University, it was more like 50%.
serf 7y ago
>Graduation rates are drastically lower from community colleges. how is that a useful metric for anything, really? Look how many extra programs pull people into community colleges, and look at the difference in accessibility between community colleges and universities. A stay-at-home mother isn't going to be eyeballing Stanford as a viable way to get her nursing degree with night classes. In the same instance, a stay-at-home mother who is using community college in order to get a degree necessarily has a lot more difficulty in managing her time and money than a university aged adult being sent to university by their parents with far fewer personal responsibilities and burdens. The stay-at-home mother will necessarily have higher drop-out rates just simply from things that exist as burdens in their life from the get-go. As will the displaced worker who is being funded by the state for re-training at their local colleges. University life is designed to reduce burden on the student in order to facilitate their learning. Comparing metrics like drop-out rates between universities and community colleges is wholly unfair. They both result in degrees, but they serve (mostly) different communities of people.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  I don't know. I have a friend who got a PhD from UW as a "stay at home mother".
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  It's a metric of exactly what you're describing. Going to a community college means immersing yourself in a community of people who see academics as a more of a luxury and less of a necessity; people who have other priorities in life, and will only participate to the extent that it doesn't interfere with their more important goals and obligations.
- drngdds 7y ago
  >They both result in degrees, but they serve (mostly) different communities of people. Right - and if you're a recent high school grad with the grades to go to a good state school (not just Berkeley or whatever) and a desire to be around your peers while fully dedicating yourself to your education, you're not really in the target audience for community college.
pnw_hazor 7y ago
Depends on the schools I guess. My peers at a top 10 public school didn't get nearly the pre-engineering education I got at a nearby community college. Primarily because their core courses (math, physics, chemistry) were weed out courses for engineering and med school with 200-300 people in them. In contrast, my core courses had about 20-40 people in them. Note, I am not claiming any prescience here. I didn't have a choice in the matter. I started my pre-engineering slog at Math 085 (Pre-Algebra 2, I think) at CC after four years in the Army. Circumstances are much different for my kids, one went to Westpoint (USMA) and the other is going to a big state school, but she is in their honors college. So, honor college courses and AP credits have enabled her to bypass the weed-out jumbo core classes. And, I am paying for everything so loans are not a concern for her.

lilt 7y ago

I don't think you read the article. It's telling people to defer a year because of coronavirus, not the usual college is not worth it schpeel. That being said, I disagree with your advice in two cases: 1) Most top schools offer free tuition if your family income is below a generous threshold (like $150k). If you can get into Stanford and meet this criteria, it's cheaper than your local community college. 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life. If you are an average student and studying a non-technical field, then the decision is not as clear.

frankbreetz 7y ago
I read the article and I am saying instead of deferring a year of college go to community college. You should do this regardless of the covid.
- DennisP 7y ago
  Yes if, as he says, you're satisfied with your community college being mostly remote classes, because that could well be what you end up with.
pfranz 7y ago
> 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life. What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable. They did say, "Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out". I went to college knowing I wanted to study computers, but didn't know what specifically. If I changed fields I'd still have the first 2 years to pay back. I wish I had gone to a community college first. I overpaid for a worse educational experience. There was too much competition for core classes. So you had to wait semesters to get in. When you did get in the class sizes were much larger. Equivalent, transferrable classes were available, cheaper, and had smaller class sizes at nearby community colleges.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

If you have a scholarship, this advice may not be good. I think most scholarships expect you to start that fall; if you don't, you may lose the scholarship. (Some or all of them will accept a "gap year", but most won't accept you going to community college for two years and then trying to take the scholarship. Or at least, that's how I think it is. Your mileage may vary, so if you have a scholarship offer, check the rules for that scholarship rather than listening to me.

RandomBacon 7y ago
Many scholarships are available to students while in college. Many people don't even apply to them because they don't know about them or care at that point. Where I went, the Student Affairs office knew more about scholarships than the financial aid office.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  I wonder why the downvote? If you, or if you have kids going to college, make sure they're on every internal mailing list possible that college has. That's how I found out about a lot of scholarships. I didn't have any debt because I found out about the scholarships and asked staff and professors to nominate me. A professor who hears about a scholarship, or a department head who emails their staff, generally doesn't think to include the financial aid office, or any other office in the university.
devNoise 7y ago
I'm on the fence about how scholarships should factor into the total cost of college. I feel like there is a decent amount of scholarship money freshmen year that disappears after that. So that the student ends up with a lot of student loans debt to finish school. It's all well and good that freshmen at an expensive college will be cheaper than some alternate school. Though is it really going to be cheaper overall? I don't think so and this is how lots of students end up with to much student debt.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago

chrisweekly 7y ago

A primary reason to attend the most exclusive college you can is the academic caliber of your fellow students.

lonelappde 7y ago
You mean high socioeconomic caliber, don't you? High academic caliber peers are easily available online.
- marcinzm 7y ago
  Given that probably the biggest by far factor for success in most anything is connections and networking the later is a lot less useful than the former.

MyHypatia 7y ago

Strongly agree. Community college enabled me to knock out almost 2 years of school in 1 year by taking classes during the regular semester, weekend classes, online classes, and summer classes. I also saved tens of thousands of dollars, and had much smaller class sizes than at the university. My professors were only focused on educating, not research, not arguing over grant money, and not flying around to conferences. I found my community college classmates more mature. Many students in the university seemed to be there because their parents wanted them to be there.

derangedHorse 7y ago
I've noticed that a lot of the students at the community college I went to were more mature as well. They all had stronger convictions for going to school as most of them were older and had spouses and children they were trying to build a better life for. Other types I found were people who were switching careers due to a life-changing event (pregnancy, work accident, rent increases) and even a good amount of immigrants who were fervently trying to pursue the American dream. All of them had a lot to lose if they didn't succeed, and I believed they worked so hard because all of them knew what it was to fail, unlike many of us high school grads. Needless to say the mentality at my community college helped build strong study habits within me, and inspired me to hang in there when times got tough (just like the classmates I used to work with did).

intopieces 7y ago

I got what I still think is the sweetest deal: I was able to take all but one of my classes at community college for my freshman year, while living in the dorms at the state university. It was cheaper to do it that way and the experience was practically the same. In fact, I'm not sure most of my friends even remembered that's what I was doing, since we all had different majors and classes anyway.

veeralpatel979 7y ago

Pro tip: if you live in California, there's something called IGETC, which is a set of GE classes you can take at a community college. Look up the equivalent in your state. Once you do that, you don't have to take GE classes at most UCs and CSUs. Transfer students typically take IGETC classes at community college, which is what allows them to graduate in 2 years once they transfer. I realized I could take these classes while in high school and so I finished all my IGETC classes while in high school. It did a middle college program my senior year, but even if I didn't I probably could still finished IGETC, by taking community college classes online and using AP scores. This allowed me to graduate in 2.5 years from UC Berkeley with a CS degree. I didn't have to take any GE classes at all in college (though of course I could've if I wanted to). I then paid off my student debt after a couple months of starting my first job. This is the best of both worlds: don't spend two years at a CC (which was never too fun for me) and also graduate early from whatever college you go to. This trick worked for me because I knew from the start I wanted to go to Cal or another UC. If my goal was to go to a private or Ivy League school, this wouldn't have worked. I do kind of regret not applying to Stanford or any Ivy League schools, but I think going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to go to a more prestigious school, and having to stay there longer, just isn't worth it. I would've gone to Cal even if I got into these schools for this reason. Especially as someone who wants to start a startup, this much debt will make you a lot less willing and able to take risks.

harrydehal 7y ago
I took a similar path to you. I did 2 years at CC and 1.5 years at UC. And oh man, IGETC is bringing back some memories. The resource I found useful for CC students in California was the https://assist.org https://assist.org tool to 1:1 map out your CC units against your CSU/UC credits so you are in and out of there efficiently (or better yet, are able to sign a guaranteed transfer agreement which can relieve some long-term stress about the admissions process). Bonus points -- at least when I was at CC, I recall SATs were not required (although I had done them during high school), nor were the foreign language requirements quite as stringent!

buzzert 7y ago

Anecdotally, I felt like 4 years at a university was not enough time to really grasp the college experience. Also maybe a lot of American students aren’t aware of this, but there are many “needs based” government scholarships out there that can make your state university effectively free to attend. I attended a state university from 08-12 and didn’t pay a dime, thanks to the Pell Grant and some needs-based scholarships from my state (Arizona Assurance). It seems like the rough spot with regards to paying for college is being too rich to qualify for the needs-based scholarships and too poor to have your parents be able to afford everything. For that, I sympathize and would probably recommend the community college approach.

gumby 7y ago

I don’t think your point is germane to the article, but to support it nonetheless: I love to hire folks, even new graduates, who did the CC-to-UC track, and am sorry than many are embarrassed about it. They tend to have better focus and be more fun to work with. I have a couple of friends who teach at CC in the Bay Area, one of whom was previously an assistant prof at Stanford for a couple of years.* They both have told me that they like the CC Because the students want to be there, do their homework, and want to learn. I remember as a TA that many Stanford students didn’t seem all that dedicated to doing their homework unless it counted in the grade, though all of them were smart and interesting. * I believe Stanford didn’t value his contributions and encouraged him to seek alternative employment. This was a long time ago.

harrydehal 7y ago

I cannot agree with you more. I'm also in that broad spectrum of "millennial college graduate" -- specifically, my college years were during the beginning of the last financial crisis (the 2008 "great recession"). I remember the stigma about going to community college (even in the Bay Area, California) when all my high school peers were going straight to Stanford, UC Berkeley, Brown, etc. But I remember that the CC classes were tough, afforded me a ton of independence and personal responsibility, and to my surprise, found my professors were also concurrently teaching at Stanford or UC Berkeley. The CC had guaranteed transfer agreements with certain University of California (UC) campuses, and also had a neat program called https://assist.org https://assist.org which allows students to be smart about mapping the relevant CC courses with the equivalent [transferable] courses at the 4-year institution of choice. I saved a ton of money, worked my way through CC, took a gap year to work full-time to save up (and/or internships to build my resume), and was able to graduate UC in only 1.5 years afterwards (while also working on campus). E.g. 2 years CC + 1.5 years UC. Sure, I missed out on some college experiences, but I matured quick, it allowed me to ride out the recession into a very strong position, and I cannot recommend it enough to young folks today. Especially today. For those wondering, I graduated into a down market, but ended up in various tech and engineering positions, with no discernible difference between my peers who had gone straight to Stanford or Brown or wherever else -- and in most cases, I somehow [luckily?] ended up faring a lot better than most of them. Lastly -- your resume will only reflect the diploma from the 4-year institution, not that anyone's asked, but you do not get put into a second-tier or second-class position because you started at a CC and transferred into a UC or 4-year, which I recall, was one of my early worries when I was starting. I'd love to reverse the stigma about CC's, because I'm immensely proud whenever I see other CC success stories -- it is the path less taken, and in many cases a lot harder upfront because of that stigma and the amount of independence and personal responsibility involved -- but I think the dividends can be rewarding long-term.

vntx 7y ago

This is optimal advice. I got a full ride to a decent state university but I wasted the first 3/4 trying to figure everything out myself because my high school college advisors were useless and because my parents had never been to college so they couldn’t help me out either. Going to community college first is cheaper and oftentimes, some professors I had at university showed up in community to teach The same courses so it’s better value too.