9 ms·

I've always dreamed of leaving behind Silicon Valley and pursuing emergency medicine. I need to stay the course for a while to ensure my college approaching kid

I've always dreamed of leaving behind Silicon Valley and pursuing emergency medicine. I need to stay the course for a while to ensure my college approaching kids are taken care of but stories like this are inspiring reminders that age doesn't have to be a factor when I finally decide to make the move.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
We should start a support group. Seems like there are lots of us who want to leave tech for something that matters.
- alexbanks 7y ago
  I want to use tech for something that matters, which feels vaguely related.
- keenmaster 7y ago
  >something that matters The tech industry saved many lives during this pandemic. Compliance with social distancing standards would be way lower if people had nothing to do at home but watch TV. Even social media is showing its bright side. People are using it in more positive ways, connecting with each other and largely sharing quality information regarding Coronavirus. Life would have come to a halt without modern internet technology, almost warranting a calendar pause until the pandemic passes. That being said, there's a lot of variability in the social value of tech industry jobs. At risk of being pedantic - you can net society more social good if you transition to a higher social value job within the same industry. It takes many years to become a doctor, and many people compete for that career so you wouldn't expand the supply of medical labor. Moreover, medical industry cronyism plays a part in bankrupting America with little to show for it. You should do what you want ultimately. I've just seen some people self-flagellate when they're actually doing really good things for society.
  - gnramires 7y ago
    Agreed. I think there's plenty of space to make a difference in tech. I don't think it's automatic in any way (i.e. making a positive social impact) -- I think the choices of every CEO and every worker matter. Facebook and/or Google could turn the industry in completely different directions (e.g. more centered in providing culture, growth and genuine interaction) if there was the will. The extent to which they're glorified ad-machines is a choice. And outside of that (i.e. big tech) there's plenty to invent and contribute in countless ways. Medical equipment, niche technology products, innovative and useful consumer technologies, the warriors we don't hear about improving industrial processes and everyday stuff, etc. I have younger friends looking to enter the game industry. I tell them: make sure you don't land somewhere that makes you start hating what you loved just so you can tell yourself you make games (having addiction-machine mobile games in mind). Better work anywhere else and wait for the opportunity to do it right, I believe. Selling your soul is always a choice... and it's not an easily replaceable good.
- aggie 7y ago
  There are tech companies that only think they're doing good. But there are plenty that are doing good, and they would love your help. By all means pursue things elsewhere, but not because you think there are no opportunities in tech.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    The opportunities in tech do not provide enough leverage for meaningful progress IMHO. Personally, I believe I can do far more good writing and pushing public policy than any amount of code. That is "operating at scale".
    - ska 7y ago
      Working on public policy is a worthwhile (and uphill) fight for sure. But it lacks imagination to suggest that impact at scale isn't possible in tech (examples: robust low cost medtech for non G7 economies, same for finance in those markets, support systems for large scale NGO efforts, access to justice efforts, etc. etc.). Clearly these opportunities exist, but they may be under resourced relative to lucrative tech options.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        I don't want to take this thread off topic. With that said, here is my example: Medicare For All would save us $450 billion, and avoid 68k preventable deaths, every single year. I find it a stretch to suggest that ambitious goals such as that "lack imagination". Such impact is simply not obtainable with tech or NGOs alone. Even Bill Gates has needed roughly $50 billion to drive forward his foundation's humanitarian efforts (but admittedly, is very efficient, with estimates of having saved ~122 million lives through their work).
        ska 7y ago
        I don't think this is a counterexample, and the imagination lacked wasn't in the scope of what can be done in policy work, but in the scope of what can be done in tech. To stay with your examples, some of the Gate's foundation efforts have largely been tech efforts, some haven't. Some of the things I mentioned off-the-top have potential to reach 10s to 100s of millions of people. MFA is a big $ number partially because the US healthcare system is expensive and inefficient, so that draws focus on $ saved ... other efforts may focus on lives impacted at much lower $ impacts. Most public policy work isn't as big as MFA either. I'm not saying policy work isn't important or impactful. I'm rejecting the idea that you (generic 'you') can't have similar effect in technology to what you might be able to achieve in policy; especially the idea that this is so clearly true that the "right" thing to do is quit technology to go into policy. Even assuming you can be as effective in policy work as you are in tech work, which isn't a given.
- bluGill 7y ago
  It doesn't matter what you do, there will be days you wish you had a different job. How do you think a doctor feels when he sees some fat patient going into the donut shop (or all you can eat buffet) after he told them to go on a diet and lose weight. (is this worse than the person who dies of bad genes caused heart attack despite talking their medications, exercising and eating well - another thing doctors see)
  - nradov 7y ago
    While my grandfather was in the hospital years ago, the patient in the room next door was recovering from a quadruple heart bypass. He didn't like the hospital food so his family brought him cheeseburgers from the fast food restaurant down the street.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      the hospital probably was giving him a low-fat, low-salt, maybe even low-calorie diet especially for his situation.
- schnevets 7y ago
  There is burnout across medicine and various other verticals that Technologists hope to retire into. I do think there needs to be a support network to help modern knowledge workers recognize the dignity and value of their labor. Some of the possible exercises could include practicing empathy during the work day, learning to explore where their labor helps the world, and recognizing the things about the systems around us that we cannot change.
  - throw_away2 7y ago
    So, what you're saying is if we can teach burnt-out medics to code…
- Cerium 7y ago
  You don't have to leave tech entirely. I very much feel that the medical devices I write software for matter.
  - nogabebop23 7y ago
    absolutely. Or even less exotic: they probably won't make a (sexy) TV show about IT in a hospital but if you've ever been to one there are massive opportunities to make a huge, meaningful change
- jjeaff 7y ago
  Just learn to code... Oh wait.
- ck425 7y ago
  There's scope within tech. I recently moved to the NHS as a software engineer and it's amazing the amount of low hanging fruit there is. The main issues are politics and the fragmentation of existing tech but if you're an engineer with good people skills and the ability to deal with lots of system integrations you can have a lot of meaningful impact.
beamatronic 7y ago
There used to be a Silicon Valley CEO who was also a San Jose police officer in his spare time, but I don't recall his name.
- mx24 7y ago
  He must really enjoy being in a position of authority.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jansan 7y ago
  This seems to happen more often: https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/kwo/spr07/alumni/mckim.htm https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/kwo/spr07/alumni/mckim.... https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/ceo-quietly-sells-company-focuses-on-being-a-police-officer-refuses-to-collect-a-salary/ https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/ceo-quietly-sells-compan...
hangonhn 7y ago
I've entertained very similar ideas myself. It's one of those things I often revisit -- wondering if I had made the right career choice. I love being an engineer and have been very lucky in being financially rewarded for doing something that I love. But whenever a startup I'm at fails or I feel my career is at a standstill, the things that's given me joy during those times are the times I've spent helping others outside of my career. I think it's because acts of kindness and generosity are meaningful in and of themselves whereas a career in engineering might make sense in the end or maybe not. A good friend of mine actually had a great career in software but decided that to become a nurse in the time he has left on earth. He and his wife both decided to go to nursing school and were definitely the oldest students. They are both now nurses and seem very happy.
arkades 7y ago
As someone who second-careered into medicine: It's a ten-year commitment, roughly, to become a practicing ER doc. And in today's industry, you'll spend the overwhelming majority of your time doing documentation on shit that should've been seen by a PCP, not an emergency department. And definitely not treating emergencies. You'll be lucky if you see one or two a day in a major ED; in smaller ED's, even one a week is optimistic. If you want to jump in with eyes wide open, more power to you. Most days, I can't tell you whether I regret my move or not.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  This fellow went to a 3 year med school that doesn’t care too much about your prerequisites as long as you have a degree. It’s 3 because they don’t really do summers off. Although he did a full 5yr EM residency, in Canada you can work EM with a 2 year FP residency and another year as an FP specializing in EM. Sooo, 10 at the most, but could be done in 6.
  - SkyPuncher 7y ago
    It's still 3 years of zero pay and $40k+ in tuition and 3+ years of shit pay.
  - jnbiche 7y ago
    Which medical school is that? Caribbean one?
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      McMaster University, 45 minutes from Toronto.
- ghufran_syed 7y ago
  Depends where you work - I work at St Joe’s in Stockton, and it’s not unusual to incubate 5 or 6 patients in a shift, though one or two is more usual. Get in touch if you’re looking to work in a super underserved community, with ridiculously high acuity! That said, most ED’s are not like that, and an awful lot of emergency medicine is ‘just’ careful assessment and reassurance, so I’d agree that if you don’t like the process of seeing and helping high and low acuity patients, it’s a bad career choice. If anyone wants to chat about the pro’s and con’s of EM and career changing, happy to chat, contact info in profile
dan_quixote 7y ago
Make sure you get a good perspective from a trusted friend in the medical community before making any big moves (if you haven't already). For the uninitiated, it's the furthest thing from a low-stress job. For some people, the passion outweighs the stress. But despite knowing countless people in medicine, I can only think of one that still professes to love her job - the rest were burned out long before covid.
- modsWrk4Appl 7y ago
  But the 300-500k/ yr income is nice. Plus you are the only profession that can legally write prescriptions and do some services. The power of the medical cartels has intangible benefits too.
  - stbtrax 7y ago
    you can make that salary at a big tech company
    - jjeaff 7y ago
      I would guess the number of doctors making that range would be at least an order of magnitude more common than tech workers but I could be wrong. Additionally, the bay area in the US is essentially the only place in the world you can make that kind of money in tech.
      - nogabebop23 7y ago
        If you're going into medicine for the money you are making a huge mistake. The front-side effort, commitment and cost is massive, and depending on your field it make impact important aspects of your life for as long as you practice. There are way easier ways to make money. One example: do a comparatively easier 4-yr undergrad in business and start with a bank straight out of school (they scoop up lots of new grads willing to move around). In the same ~15 years you can move into a senior position in finance or M&A and make comparable money. It's not easy or guaranteed but IMO easier...
fiftyacorn 7y ago
Reminds me of Ed Roberts who built the Altair, then quit to become a doctor
sandfly 7y ago
I tried this. I didn't get into medical school but it is doable. I enrolled in a premedical postbaccalaureate program, and over the course of two years of night classes finished all of the prerequisites required by most allopathic medical schools. I worked by butt off to finish with a 4.0 GPA and place in the 96th percentile on the MCAT (good enough to not be ruled out because of my MCAT score). I also volunteered at a memory care hospice on weekends during this period and ended up with 100 hours of clinical experience. I had some additional clinical exposure working on medical device projects as an engineering student. I applied to 27 schools and was invited for two interviews. Of those two, I was waitlisted by one and rejected by the other. I didn't end up clearing the waitlist. So what went wrong? I can't say for certain, but I suspect these were contributing factors: * My undergraduate engineering school GPA was 3.3 and my graduate school engineering GPA was 3.4. These are reasonable by engineering school standards but borderline for medical school. * I only had 100 clinical hours. Many applicants have hundreds or even thousands of hours of clinical experience when they apply. I was 31 when I started the postbac program and decided to keep my full time job in order to save up money. The opportunity cost of each hour of clinical experience was higher at this age compared to a typical undergrad. In hindsight I should have at least devoted my weekends to gaining clinical experience the moment I decided to go this route. * One of my recommendation letter writers was late. My application wasn't processed until all recommendation letters were in. I wasn't eligible for consideration until later admissions rounds. * I didn't stand out. To be clear this isn't a requirement, but schools like to build a diverse and interesting class, so standing out in some way can be helpful. I struggle to decide if this was something beyond my control or if it represents a personal failure. To return to my initial point, it is doable. In an alternate universe in which my recommendation letters made it in earlier, or I slept better before the MCAT and got an extra point, perhaps I would have been invited for one or two more interviews. If the interview -> admission invite conversion rate is 20%, that boosts the odds of admission from 36% to 59%. (I haven't ruled out applying again, but I would need to enroll in classes for at least another year in order to get new faculty recommendation letters. Unfortunately it isn't safe to volunteer at the hospice right now due to COVID-19).
- jac241 7y ago
  Can corroborate. Schools care about GPA too much even in the face of work experience (most doctors on admission committees have never had another job..) + MCAT score. Median GPA is 5% of the grading in the US News research rankings and that matters a ton to the schools. Went from software to med school, now in my second year (4 since software). 3.67 GPA (bioinformatics)/ 3.55 BioChemMathPhysics GPA with 100th percentile MCAT. ~140 hrs clinical experience when I applied. 20 applications, 6 interviews, 4 waitlists (to rejection), 1 immediate post-interview rejection (screw you too NYU), 1 acceptance. If you read about this CEO and are thinking about making the switch be very realistic with your chances, particularly about your GPA like parent post said. Without a 3.7+ you're going to have a tough time, and there's no guarantee that you won't spend 2+ years and get rejected. You'll have to overperform on the MCAT. Expect bias against your work experience (only software really). Whenever I said I used to be a software engineer you could see the light leave some of the interviewers eyes... Though if you're FAANG or another name-brand company I wouldn't expect the same.
outlace 7y ago
Resident physician here. I have > $200,000 student debt. Doesn't feel good at all.
- robbiep 7y ago
  The US experience is not good. I’m a resident in Australia. 11 years at university (took some side tracks), $70k in debt for the whole time, now gone, and we are paid between $70-110k a year as interns. Although our training pathways are longer because we are required to do 2 generalist years
- billfruit 7y ago
  Yes, I second the opinion that the costs the schedule issues etc are a US problem.. I think one could study at much lower cost in China, Russia, Eastern and Central Europe. They have now courses in English, and have become the new hub for medical education.
  - aschatten 7y ago
    > I think one could study at much lower cost in China, Russia, Eastern and Central Europe. They have now courses in English, and have become the new hub for medical education. Cost is cheaper, yes. Quality varies a lot across the country. Some countries are doing better than others. But medical degree is still not easily convertible, so if you study outside the US, but practice here, it's not simple. Language is not the main issue, different approaches, different standards, etc.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

We should start a support group. Seems like there are lots of us who want to leave tech for something that matters.

alexbanks 7y ago
I want to use tech for something that matters, which feels vaguely related.
keenmaster 7y ago
>something that matters The tech industry saved many lives during this pandemic. Compliance with social distancing standards would be way lower if people had nothing to do at home but watch TV. Even social media is showing its bright side. People are using it in more positive ways, connecting with each other and largely sharing quality information regarding Coronavirus. Life would have come to a halt without modern internet technology, almost warranting a calendar pause until the pandemic passes. That being said, there's a lot of variability in the social value of tech industry jobs. At risk of being pedantic - you can net society more social good if you transition to a higher social value job within the same industry. It takes many years to become a doctor, and many people compete for that career so you wouldn't expand the supply of medical labor. Moreover, medical industry cronyism plays a part in bankrupting America with little to show for it. You should do what you want ultimately. I've just seen some people self-flagellate when they're actually doing really good things for society.
- gnramires 7y ago
  Agreed. I think there's plenty of space to make a difference in tech. I don't think it's automatic in any way (i.e. making a positive social impact) -- I think the choices of every CEO and every worker matter. Facebook and/or Google could turn the industry in completely different directions (e.g. more centered in providing culture, growth and genuine interaction) if there was the will. The extent to which they're glorified ad-machines is a choice. And outside of that (i.e. big tech) there's plenty to invent and contribute in countless ways. Medical equipment, niche technology products, innovative and useful consumer technologies, the warriors we don't hear about improving industrial processes and everyday stuff, etc. I have younger friends looking to enter the game industry. I tell them: make sure you don't land somewhere that makes you start hating what you loved just so you can tell yourself you make games (having addiction-machine mobile games in mind). Better work anywhere else and wait for the opportunity to do it right, I believe. Selling your soul is always a choice... and it's not an easily replaceable good.
aggie 7y ago
There are tech companies that only think they're doing good. But there are plenty that are doing good, and they would love your help. By all means pursue things elsewhere, but not because you think there are no opportunities in tech.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  The opportunities in tech do not provide enough leverage for meaningful progress IMHO. Personally, I believe I can do far more good writing and pushing public policy than any amount of code. That is "operating at scale".
  - ska 7y ago
    Working on public policy is a worthwhile (and uphill) fight for sure. But it lacks imagination to suggest that impact at scale isn't possible in tech (examples: robust low cost medtech for non G7 economies, same for finance in those markets, support systems for large scale NGO efforts, access to justice efforts, etc. etc.). Clearly these opportunities exist, but they may be under resourced relative to lucrative tech options.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      I don't want to take this thread off topic. With that said, here is my example: Medicare For All would save us $450 billion, and avoid 68k preventable deaths, every single year. I find it a stretch to suggest that ambitious goals such as that "lack imagination". Such impact is simply not obtainable with tech or NGOs alone. Even Bill Gates has needed roughly $50 billion to drive forward his foundation's humanitarian efforts (but admittedly, is very efficient, with estimates of having saved ~122 million lives through their work).
      - ska 7y ago
        I don't think this is a counterexample, and the imagination lacked wasn't in the scope of what can be done in policy work, but in the scope of what can be done in tech. To stay with your examples, some of the Gate's foundation efforts have largely been tech efforts, some haven't. Some of the things I mentioned off-the-top have potential to reach 10s to 100s of millions of people. MFA is a big $ number partially because the US healthcare system is expensive and inefficient, so that draws focus on $ saved ... other efforts may focus on lives impacted at much lower $ impacts. Most public policy work isn't as big as MFA either. I'm not saying policy work isn't important or impactful. I'm rejecting the idea that you (generic 'you') can't have similar effect in technology to what you might be able to achieve in policy; especially the idea that this is so clearly true that the "right" thing to do is quit technology to go into policy. Even assuming you can be as effective in policy work as you are in tech work, which isn't a given.
bluGill 7y ago
It doesn't matter what you do, there will be days you wish you had a different job. How do you think a doctor feels when he sees some fat patient going into the donut shop (or all you can eat buffet) after he told them to go on a diet and lose weight. (is this worse than the person who dies of bad genes caused heart attack despite talking their medications, exercising and eating well - another thing doctors see)
- nradov 7y ago
  While my grandfather was in the hospital years ago, the patient in the room next door was recovering from a quadruple heart bypass. He didn't like the hospital food so his family brought him cheeseburgers from the fast food restaurant down the street.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    the hospital probably was giving him a low-fat, low-salt, maybe even low-calorie diet especially for his situation.
schnevets 7y ago
There is burnout across medicine and various other verticals that Technologists hope to retire into. I do think there needs to be a support network to help modern knowledge workers recognize the dignity and value of their labor. Some of the possible exercises could include practicing empathy during the work day, learning to explore where their labor helps the world, and recognizing the things about the systems around us that we cannot change.
- throw_away2 7y ago
  So, what you're saying is if we can teach burnt-out medics to code…
Cerium 7y ago
You don't have to leave tech entirely. I very much feel that the medical devices I write software for matter.
- nogabebop23 7y ago
  absolutely. Or even less exotic: they probably won't make a (sexy) TV show about IT in a hospital but if you've ever been to one there are massive opportunities to make a huge, meaningful change
jjeaff 7y ago
Just learn to code... Oh wait.
ck425 7y ago
There's scope within tech. I recently moved to the NHS as a software engineer and it's amazing the amount of low hanging fruit there is. The main issues are politics and the fragmentation of existing tech but if you're an engineer with good people skills and the ability to deal with lots of system integrations you can have a lot of meaningful impact.

beamatronic 7y ago

There used to be a Silicon Valley CEO who was also a San Jose police officer in his spare time, but I don't recall his name.

mx24 7y ago
He must really enjoy being in a position of authority.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jansan 7y ago
This seems to happen more often: https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/kwo/spr07/alumni/mckim.htm https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/kwo/spr07/alumni/mckim.... https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/ceo-quietly-sells-company-focuses-on-being-a-police-officer-refuses-to-collect-a-salary/ https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/ceo-quietly-sells-compan...

hangonhn 7y ago

I've entertained very similar ideas myself. It's one of those things I often revisit -- wondering if I had made the right career choice. I love being an engineer and have been very lucky in being financially rewarded for doing something that I love. But whenever a startup I'm at fails or I feel my career is at a standstill, the things that's given me joy during those times are the times I've spent helping others outside of my career. I think it's because acts of kindness and generosity are meaningful in and of themselves whereas a career in engineering might make sense in the end or maybe not. A good friend of mine actually had a great career in software but decided that to become a nurse in the time he has left on earth. He and his wife both decided to go to nursing school and were definitely the oldest students. They are both now nurses and seem very happy.

arkades 7y ago

As someone who second-careered into medicine: It's a ten-year commitment, roughly, to become a practicing ER doc. And in today's industry, you'll spend the overwhelming majority of your time doing documentation on shit that should've been seen by a PCP, not an emergency department. And definitely not treating emergencies. You'll be lucky if you see one or two a day in a major ED; in smaller ED's, even one a week is optimistic. If you want to jump in with eyes wide open, more power to you. Most days, I can't tell you whether I regret my move or not.

Scoundreller 7y ago
This fellow went to a 3 year med school that doesn’t care too much about your prerequisites as long as you have a degree. It’s 3 because they don’t really do summers off. Although he did a full 5yr EM residency, in Canada you can work EM with a 2 year FP residency and another year as an FP specializing in EM. Sooo, 10 at the most, but could be done in 6.
- SkyPuncher 7y ago
  It's still 3 years of zero pay and $40k+ in tuition and 3+ years of shit pay.
- jnbiche 7y ago
  Which medical school is that? Caribbean one?
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    McMaster University, 45 minutes from Toronto.
ghufran_syed 7y ago
Depends where you work - I work at St Joe’s in Stockton, and it’s not unusual to incubate 5 or 6 patients in a shift, though one or two is more usual. Get in touch if you’re looking to work in a super underserved community, with ridiculously high acuity! That said, most ED’s are not like that, and an awful lot of emergency medicine is ‘just’ careful assessment and reassurance, so I’d agree that if you don’t like the process of seeing and helping high and low acuity patients, it’s a bad career choice. If anyone wants to chat about the pro’s and con’s of EM and career changing, happy to chat, contact info in profile

dan_quixote 7y ago

Make sure you get a good perspective from a trusted friend in the medical community before making any big moves (if you haven't already). For the uninitiated, it's the furthest thing from a low-stress job. For some people, the passion outweighs the stress. But despite knowing countless people in medicine, I can only think of one that still professes to love her job - the rest were burned out long before covid.

modsWrk4Appl 7y ago
But the 300-500k/ yr income is nice. Plus you are the only profession that can legally write prescriptions and do some services. The power of the medical cartels has intangible benefits too.
- stbtrax 7y ago
  you can make that salary at a big tech company
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    I would guess the number of doctors making that range would be at least an order of magnitude more common than tech workers but I could be wrong. Additionally, the bay area in the US is essentially the only place in the world you can make that kind of money in tech.
    - nogabebop23 7y ago
      If you're going into medicine for the money you are making a huge mistake. The front-side effort, commitment and cost is massive, and depending on your field it make impact important aspects of your life for as long as you practice. There are way easier ways to make money. One example: do a comparatively easier 4-yr undergrad in business and start with a bank straight out of school (they scoop up lots of new grads willing to move around). In the same ~15 years you can move into a senior position in finance or M&A and make comparable money. It's not easy or guaranteed but IMO easier...

fiftyacorn 7y ago

Reminds me of Ed Roberts who built the Altair, then quit to become a doctor

sandfly 7y ago

I tried this. I didn't get into medical school but it is doable. I enrolled in a premedical postbaccalaureate program, and over the course of two years of night classes finished all of the prerequisites required by most allopathic medical schools. I worked by butt off to finish with a 4.0 GPA and place in the 96th percentile on the MCAT (good enough to not be ruled out because of my MCAT score). I also volunteered at a memory care hospice on weekends during this period and ended up with 100 hours of clinical experience. I had some additional clinical exposure working on medical device projects as an engineering student. I applied to 27 schools and was invited for two interviews. Of those two, I was waitlisted by one and rejected by the other. I didn't end up clearing the waitlist. So what went wrong? I can't say for certain, but I suspect these were contributing factors: * My undergraduate engineering school GPA was 3.3 and my graduate school engineering GPA was 3.4. These are reasonable by engineering school standards but borderline for medical school. * I only had 100 clinical hours. Many applicants have hundreds or even thousands of hours of clinical experience when they apply. I was 31 when I started the postbac program and decided to keep my full time job in order to save up money. The opportunity cost of each hour of clinical experience was higher at this age compared to a typical undergrad. In hindsight I should have at least devoted my weekends to gaining clinical experience the moment I decided to go this route. * One of my recommendation letter writers was late. My application wasn't processed until all recommendation letters were in. I wasn't eligible for consideration until later admissions rounds. * I didn't stand out. To be clear this isn't a requirement, but schools like to build a diverse and interesting class, so standing out in some way can be helpful. I struggle to decide if this was something beyond my control or if it represents a personal failure. To return to my initial point, it is doable. In an alternate universe in which my recommendation letters made it in earlier, or I slept better before the MCAT and got an extra point, perhaps I would have been invited for one or two more interviews. If the interview -> admission invite conversion rate is 20%, that boosts the odds of admission from 36% to 59%. (I haven't ruled out applying again, but I would need to enroll in classes for at least another year in order to get new faculty recommendation letters. Unfortunately it isn't safe to volunteer at the hospice right now due to COVID-19).

jac241 7y ago
Can corroborate. Schools care about GPA too much even in the face of work experience (most doctors on admission committees have never had another job..) + MCAT score. Median GPA is 5% of the grading in the US News research rankings and that matters a ton to the schools. Went from software to med school, now in my second year (4 since software). 3.67 GPA (bioinformatics)/ 3.55 BioChemMathPhysics GPA with 100th percentile MCAT. ~140 hrs clinical experience when I applied. 20 applications, 6 interviews, 4 waitlists (to rejection), 1 immediate post-interview rejection (screw you too NYU), 1 acceptance. If you read about this CEO and are thinking about making the switch be very realistic with your chances, particularly about your GPA like parent post said. Without a 3.7+ you're going to have a tough time, and there's no guarantee that you won't spend 2+ years and get rejected. You'll have to overperform on the MCAT. Expect bias against your work experience (only software really). Whenever I said I used to be a software engineer you could see the light leave some of the interviewers eyes... Though if you're FAANG or another name-brand company I wouldn't expect the same.

outlace 7y ago

Resident physician here. I have > $200,000 student debt. Doesn't feel good at all.

robbiep 7y ago
The US experience is not good. I’m a resident in Australia. 11 years at university (took some side tracks), $70k in debt for the whole time, now gone, and we are paid between $70-110k a year as interns. Although our training pathways are longer because we are required to do 2 generalist years
billfruit 7y ago
Yes, I second the opinion that the costs the schedule issues etc are a US problem.. I think one could study at much lower cost in China, Russia, Eastern and Central Europe. They have now courses in English, and have become the new hub for medical education.
- aschatten 7y ago
  > I think one could study at much lower cost in China, Russia, Eastern and Central Europe. They have now courses in English, and have become the new hub for medical education. Cost is cheaper, yes. Quality varies a lot across the country. Some countries are doing better than others. But medical degree is still not easily convertible, so if you study outside the US, but practice here, it's not simple. Language is not the main issue, different approaches, different standards, etc.