9 ms·

CDC Now Recommends “Use of Cloth Face Coverings” (DIY Masks)

52 points by exolymph 7y ago

exolymph 7y ago
Real title is too long, so I tried for something shorter but similarly informative.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
collinmanderson 7y ago
This is really good.
- exolymph 7y ago
  Right? FINALLY. I hope that people don't need too much convincing after having been checks notes lied to by the public health authorities.
  - armenarmen 7y ago
    2 weeks ago: "don't buy masks because they won't keep you from getting sick and doctors need them to keep from getting sick. Plus you probably wouldn't understand how to use something as complicated as a mask anyway"
collinmanderson 7y ago
Official Recommendation: Cover your mouth and nose with a cloth face cover when around others - You could spread COVID-19 to others even if you do not feel sick. - Everyone should wear a cloth face cover when they have to go out in public, for example to the grocery store or to pick up other necessities. - - Cloth face coverings should not be placed on young children under age 2, anyone who has trouble breathing, or is unconscious, incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance. - The cloth face cover is meant to protect other people in case you are infected. - Do NOT use a facemask meant for a healthcare worker. - Continue to keep about 6 feet between yourself and others. The cloth face cover is not a substitute for social distancing. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/prevention.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si...
- throw-away_42 7y ago
  Official Presidential Recommendation: "You do not have to do it," he said. "I don't think I'm going to be doing it."
  - throwawaysea 7y ago
    Let’s be clear it wasn’t just Trump saying you don’t need masks. Everyone, Democrats and Republicans, both politicians and private individuals, were amplifying the same obvious lies. Why people didn’t trust their own common sense and reality around them is beyond me.
    - coolgeek 7y ago
      Let's be clear, that was a quote from Trump yesterday, when he was announcing the recommendation edit: And to be clear, this wasn't a one-off quote. He made repeated variations of it. At best, he confused the message. At worst, he contradicted it.
erentz 7y ago
Lots of people need to be fired once this is over. This has been known for a long time. There is no excuse for it that stacks up except incompetence. You can argue about funding but being honest and factual is free.
- shawnz 7y ago
  > This has been known for a long time. Is that true? I don't want to be inflammatory here but as far as I've seen there isn't much research to show that laypeople's use of masks is effective and there have even been some possible mechanisms suggested that could even make it worse than wearing no mask. And furthermore I don't think that just because healthcare workers are recommended to wear masks that makes it "obvious" that they would be effective for laypeople too. Healthcare workers have full sets of PPE and also strict procedures and facilities for using them/putting them on/taking them off/etc that could potentially nullify the usefulness of that PPE if not followed. If there really is research to show otherwise then I would be very curious to see it. Most of what I've seen so far specifically focuses on their use by healthcare workers. EDIT: One promising datapoint for the pro-mask camp is that infection rates do seem to be slowing down in the Czech republic since making mask-wearing mandatory there. For a while there didn't seem to be any change but looking at the data again today, there does seem to be a decrease.
  - mantap 7y ago
    It's blindingly obvious. We've known that people with only subclinical symptoms (such as cough) spread this since very early on. People were told to cough into their elbow. We also know that almost nobody coughs into their elbow, even some public health officials have been caught on camera at press conferences coughing into their hands[1]. A cloth mask is surely better than coughing into your hand or worse into the open air. [1] see this video https://news.sky.com/video/coronavirus-medical-officer-coughs-while-advising-on-shaking-hands-11950219 https://news.sky.com/video/coronavirus-medical-officer-cough...
    - shawnz 7y ago
      Lots of people thought it was obvious that sodium intake caused hypertension, or cholesterol intake caused heart disease. Both ideas were since discredited. I am weary about calling anything in science or medicine "obvious", especially in a time of panic like this
mnm1 7y ago
About fucking time. It's impossible to know how many people the previous advice cost. Or how much trust was lost.
exolymph 7y ago
March 28, a mere six days ago, in response to rumors of an upcoming policy change: "CDC does not have updated guidance scheduled to come out on this topic. See current CDC guidance regarding the use of facemasks" https://twitter.com/CDCgov/status/1243947313715961857 https://twitter.com/CDCgov/status/1243947313715961857
cameldrv 7y ago
The CDC has no credibility. Here's some real advice: 1. Don't go out unless absolutely necessary. 2. If you go out, wear the highest specification mask available to you. 3. If you go out, wear the best eye covering available to you. Sealed goggles are ideal, but even a pair of sunglasses will provide protection. 4. If you have to improvise a mask, try to use a filter material better than cotton. Some ideas: Vacuum Bags, HEPA filters, Furnace Filters, Car Cabin Air Filters. Try to make a mask that seals well against your face. 5. If you have extra masks, donate them. You may want to wait to donate them until hospitals start routinely disinfecting and reusing their PPE, because otherwise the masks you donate may get used once and thrown out. Masks donated later may make more of a difference. Do not feel shame about wearing a medical mask out. The most useless mask is the one that sits on a shelf while its owner is outside getting infected or spreading infection. You are not denying a healthcare worker a mask by wearing one. You are being responsible and not getting infected. If you don't infected, you don't go to the hospital and infect a healthcare worker. If you don't get infected, you don't spread the virus to anyone else, and they don't go to the hospital either. Look in your garage. Many people have a few masks left over from painting or sanding or wildfires.
- robocat 7y ago
  > donate them I’m predicting that if you want to donate, you should donate directly to front line workers, since a hospital wouldn’t use masks of unknown origin, and I’d be concerned about thefts and scams from charities. Anyone who really needs them will just accept a donation gratefully, and can share with others on front line.
  - csnover 7y ago
    > a hospital wouldn’t use masks of unknown origin There are multiple PPE donation drives going on right now, and these supplies do go to hospitals and other health care workers. I don’t know why you think hospitals won’t use these masks; they will soon have nothing else to use. https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/4/2/21205935/cook-donations-masks-protective-equipment-ppe-preckwinkle-coronavirus https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/4/2/21205935/cook... https://www.milb.com/news/ppe-donation-drive-set-for-april-4-5-at-frawley-stadium https://www.milb.com/news/ppe-donation-drive-set-for-april-4... https://mnnurses.org/minnesota-nurses-asking-for-public-to-donate-covid-19-protective-masks/ https://mnnurses.org/minnesota-nurses-asking-for-public-to-d... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/woodlands-to-start-help-our-heroes-ppe-donation-program-amid-coronavirus/ar-BB128Cn6 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/woodlands-to-start-help-ou... https://denver.cbslocal.com/video/4496510-ppe-donation-drives-aim-to-help-colorado-springs-medical-workers/ https://denver.cbslocal.com/video/4496510-ppe-donation-drive...
throwawaysea 7y ago
It is tempting to blame solely the CDC, but I think there is just as much to blame to go around on the general public. Almost everyone was getting on their soapbox on social media to shame people who were wearing masks or trying to acquire a mask. Yes I know there’s a difference between an N95 respirator and a cloth mask. But that’s beside the point. If the virus can be transmitted over an air gap, then people should be able to buy whatever face covering they want to contain the risk to themselves or their family maximally. And there’s nothing morally wrong with them trying to acquire the highest degree of protection possible, including N95 respirators. Predictably someone is going to respond to this comment and say that the mask is more necessary for medical professionals or that it is more to prevent particles from exiting your own mouth towards others. The former might be true but it is totally okay for people to want to prioritize their own health. And as for the latter - clearly the reverse transmission is very possible (particles into your mouth/nose) and it is just a matter of time before everyone acknowledges this more openly and starts recommending N95s (most likely once supply constraints are alleviated and the lies are no longer needed). Just as a reminder: the WHO, possibly at China’s behest, claimed even as late as the middle of January that the virus wasn’t transmissible between humans, a month after Wuhan doctors observed exactly this. It took several weeks for airborne transmission on particles to be acknowledged. And then weeks again to note that the virus can linger on various surfaces and materials. The lesson to be learned is to trust personal judgment and common sense. Be self reliant, and don’t put faith in random authorities who’ve done little to earn your trust. EDIT: this article discusses the WHO’s failures in this whole fiasco and how they are a political organization, more than a trustworthy medical organization: https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68 https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6...
- ericb 7y ago
  We've built this "masks should be saved for healthcare workers" strawman ourselves with bad policy. Masks should be plentiful. Citizens wearing masks also saves healthcare workers!
vehemenz 7y ago
I have 30 or so surgical masks that I bought in early January (I read the news), but now that consumers can't access those supply chains, I'm afraid to donate extras.
- pureliquidhw 7y ago
  This may be unpopular, but for 30 masks it probably isn't worth the risk to donate. Between interacting and potentially being a carrier, it would be better if you used them yourself going to the grocery store/pharmacy once every other week to prevent spread. You getting infected would cause more of a problem vs the small impact 30 masks would have in a hospital.
- numpad0 7y ago
  That masks would have to be considered contaminated anyway under the current(far from apocalyptic) circumstances
- renewiltord 7y ago
  I was able to donate my masks through a local healthcare worker. They can still use it. The thing to remember is that mask reuse is possible and a damned good idea. Btw, as usual there's more misinformation as to what masks healthcare workers will find useful. People will tell you that you can't share those because they're contaminated - wrong! I already did so in a fully informed manner. People will tell you that you can't reuse - wrong! You absolutely can reuse. Keep eight. Keep them separate. Do not allow contact of anything with the inside. Keep them face up in an isolated area. One every day of the week. In fact, I'm just a random person. Don't trust me. Don't trust the agencies. Follow the actions people are taking that are working. Follow the evidence.
- sjg007 7y ago
  You can order from China but shipments take a month....
m0zg 7y ago
What's going to really cook your noodle is when the CDC admits that the Trump pills work, which by all accounts they do, but you won't find it in the press: everything is very carefully suppressed. https://www.sermo.com/press-releases/largest-statistically-significant-study-by-6200-multi-country-physicians-on-covid-19-uncovers-treatment-patterns-and-puts-pandemic-in-context/ https://www.sermo.com/press-releases/largest-statistically-s... Doesn't matter what they say, doctors worldwide are using them anyway, in spite of the absence of rigorous, multi-year, double blind, randomized studies. It'll probably take another week or two for them to not be able to sweep this under the rug anymore.
- nojvek 7y ago
  I’m getting messages from Whatsapp groups. Taking a hot shower or sitting in a hot tub kills the virus. Drinking Eucalyptus with vodka gives you immunity. Millions of people are doing it and doctors are recommending it. It’s not clinically tried but it works. Otherwise why would others do it? /s
beaunative 7y ago
CDC lied because people will panic buy, see what happened with toilet paper, it got ample supply, but still cant handle people buying them for year round quantity. They suspect our healthcare system will crash in a blink if people were panic buying masks either because medical professionals were in strike or sick
- colmvp 7y ago
  There's already a massive shortage of masks so I don't what lying about it and then changing stances during a crisis is supposed to accomplish. But given their failure with Covid testing early on, it doesn't surprise me to see them bungle.
renewiltord 7y ago
I was talking to some folks about the ill-advised CDC and WHO recommendations on masks, the resulting poor handling by the US government, and the rampant cargo-culting by people on Twitter, Reddit, and HN who decided to just signal-amplify the misinformation from US government agencies without critical thought. While we were doing that, I decided to go see what Taiwan's timeline looked like. Pasting here for your sake. New Year's Eve: Rumours of viral pneumonia in Wuhan. All inbound flights from Wuhan subject to inspection Jan 5: All Wuhan travelers exhibiting upper respiratory inspections are now subject to screening Jan 20: First positive test Jan 21: Mask export ban, production ramp-up Jan 31: Taiwanese government forced monopsony on masks (1/3 reserved for healthcare personnel). Announces rationing first week of Feb Feb 2: Taiwanese defence personnel dispatched to bolster staffing at mask factories Feb 6: Mask rationing starts Feb 15: Mask production by end of month projected to be 10 million / day. Taiwanese population: 24 million Mar 9: Mask production 9.2 million / day Mar 16: Production 10 million / day Mar 22: Production 12.6 million / day April 3. Taiwan: Population 24 million. Density: 649 people/sq.km. First case: Jan 20. Cases: 348. Deaths: 5 April 3. Florida: Population 21.5 million. 136.5 people/sq.km. First case: Mar 7. Cases: 10268. Deaths: 170 Did we have to make the choice between the economy and lives? Did we have to choose between grandma and the dollar? Could policy have changed the outcome? You decide.
- nojvek 7y ago
  Ramping up PPE and ventilators at the first hint of an infectious disease would have saved tons of lives. The second thing was closing borders. We wouldn’t need a massive lockdown inside the country if only negatively tested people were coming in. Airlines would have taken a big hit, yes, but you’d still save the economy. It would be way cheaper to pay the airlines for all their potential lost fare than 20% of the population unemployed. The president still not wearing mask in public says it all. He won’t take this seriously until he himself gets infected and gets seriously ill. The negligence is atrocious.
  - renewiltord 7y ago
    The President is not a generally competent pandemic-response person. His strengths are elsewhere. But the people who have held the jobs that were intended to be experts on this failed and are failing. The rot is institutional because bureaucrats always outlast elected administrations. Naturally, the "useful idiots" that the bureaucracy exploits are an additional problem. I haven't yet determined if they're a minor problem or if they provide the weight of opinion. If you have a thousand people who will say "Masks don't work" if the CDC says "Masks don't work" are the thousand people more dangerous or the CDC more dangerous. Probably the CDC, I think.

52 points by exolymph 7y ago

exolymph 7y ago

Real title is too long, so I tried for something shorter but similarly informative.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

collinmanderson 7y ago

This is really good.

exolymph 7y ago
Right? FINALLY. I hope that people don't need too much convincing after having been checks notes lied to by the public health authorities.
- armenarmen 7y ago
  2 weeks ago: "don't buy masks because they won't keep you from getting sick and doctors need them to keep from getting sick. Plus you probably wouldn't understand how to use something as complicated as a mask anyway"

collinmanderson 7y ago

Official Recommendation: Cover your mouth and nose with a cloth face cover when around others - You could spread COVID-19 to others even if you do not feel sick. - Everyone should wear a cloth face cover when they have to go out in public, for example to the grocery store or to pick up other necessities. - - Cloth face coverings should not be placed on young children under age 2, anyone who has trouble breathing, or is unconscious, incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance. - The cloth face cover is meant to protect other people in case you are infected. - Do NOT use a facemask meant for a healthcare worker. - Continue to keep about 6 feet between yourself and others. The cloth face cover is not a substitute for social distancing. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/prevention.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si...

throw-away_42 7y ago
Official Presidential Recommendation: "You do not have to do it," he said. "I don't think I'm going to be doing it."
- throwawaysea 7y ago
  Let’s be clear it wasn’t just Trump saying you don’t need masks. Everyone, Democrats and Republicans, both politicians and private individuals, were amplifying the same obvious lies. Why people didn’t trust their own common sense and reality around them is beyond me.
  - coolgeek 7y ago
    Let's be clear, that was a quote from Trump yesterday, when he was announcing the recommendation edit: And to be clear, this wasn't a one-off quote. He made repeated variations of it. At best, he confused the message. At worst, he contradicted it.

erentz 7y ago

Lots of people need to be fired once this is over. This has been known for a long time. There is no excuse for it that stacks up except incompetence. You can argue about funding but being honest and factual is free.

shawnz 7y ago
> This has been known for a long time. Is that true? I don't want to be inflammatory here but as far as I've seen there isn't much research to show that laypeople's use of masks is effective and there have even been some possible mechanisms suggested that could even make it worse than wearing no mask. And furthermore I don't think that just because healthcare workers are recommended to wear masks that makes it "obvious" that they would be effective for laypeople too. Healthcare workers have full sets of PPE and also strict procedures and facilities for using them/putting them on/taking them off/etc that could potentially nullify the usefulness of that PPE if not followed. If there really is research to show otherwise then I would be very curious to see it. Most of what I've seen so far specifically focuses on their use by healthcare workers. EDIT: One promising datapoint for the pro-mask camp is that infection rates do seem to be slowing down in the Czech republic since making mask-wearing mandatory there. For a while there didn't seem to be any change but looking at the data again today, there does seem to be a decrease.
- mantap 7y ago
  It's blindingly obvious. We've known that people with only subclinical symptoms (such as cough) spread this since very early on. People were told to cough into their elbow. We also know that almost nobody coughs into their elbow, even some public health officials have been caught on camera at press conferences coughing into their hands[1]. A cloth mask is surely better than coughing into your hand or worse into the open air. [1] see this video https://news.sky.com/video/coronavirus-medical-officer-coughs-while-advising-on-shaking-hands-11950219 https://news.sky.com/video/coronavirus-medical-officer-cough...
  - shawnz 7y ago
    Lots of people thought it was obvious that sodium intake caused hypertension, or cholesterol intake caused heart disease. Both ideas were since discredited. I am weary about calling anything in science or medicine "obvious", especially in a time of panic like this

mnm1 7y ago

About fucking time. It's impossible to know how many people the previous advice cost. Or how much trust was lost.

exolymph 7y ago

March 28, a mere six days ago, in response to rumors of an upcoming policy change: "CDC does not have updated guidance scheduled to come out on this topic. See current CDC guidance regarding the use of facemasks" https://twitter.com/CDCgov/status/1243947313715961857 https://twitter.com/CDCgov/status/1243947313715961857

cameldrv 7y ago

The CDC has no credibility. Here's some real advice: 1. Don't go out unless absolutely necessary. 2. If you go out, wear the highest specification mask available to you. 3. If you go out, wear the best eye covering available to you. Sealed goggles are ideal, but even a pair of sunglasses will provide protection. 4. If you have to improvise a mask, try to use a filter material better than cotton. Some ideas: Vacuum Bags, HEPA filters, Furnace Filters, Car Cabin Air Filters. Try to make a mask that seals well against your face. 5. If you have extra masks, donate them. You may want to wait to donate them until hospitals start routinely disinfecting and reusing their PPE, because otherwise the masks you donate may get used once and thrown out. Masks donated later may make more of a difference. Do not feel shame about wearing a medical mask out. The most useless mask is the one that sits on a shelf while its owner is outside getting infected or spreading infection. You are not denying a healthcare worker a mask by wearing one. You are being responsible and not getting infected. If you don't infected, you don't go to the hospital and infect a healthcare worker. If you don't get infected, you don't spread the virus to anyone else, and they don't go to the hospital either. Look in your garage. Many people have a few masks left over from painting or sanding or wildfires.

robocat 7y ago
> donate them I’m predicting that if you want to donate, you should donate directly to front line workers, since a hospital wouldn’t use masks of unknown origin, and I’d be concerned about thefts and scams from charities. Anyone who really needs them will just accept a donation gratefully, and can share with others on front line.
- csnover 7y ago
  > a hospital wouldn’t use masks of unknown origin There are multiple PPE donation drives going on right now, and these supplies do go to hospitals and other health care workers. I don’t know why you think hospitals won’t use these masks; they will soon have nothing else to use. https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/4/2/21205935/cook-donations-masks-protective-equipment-ppe-preckwinkle-coronavirus https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/4/2/21205935/cook... https://www.milb.com/news/ppe-donation-drive-set-for-april-4-5-at-frawley-stadium https://www.milb.com/news/ppe-donation-drive-set-for-april-4... https://mnnurses.org/minnesota-nurses-asking-for-public-to-donate-covid-19-protective-masks/ https://mnnurses.org/minnesota-nurses-asking-for-public-to-d... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/woodlands-to-start-help-our-heroes-ppe-donation-program-amid-coronavirus/ar-BB128Cn6 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/woodlands-to-start-help-ou... https://denver.cbslocal.com/video/4496510-ppe-donation-drives-aim-to-help-colorado-springs-medical-workers/ https://denver.cbslocal.com/video/4496510-ppe-donation-drive...

throwawaysea 7y ago

It is tempting to blame solely the CDC, but I think there is just as much to blame to go around on the general public. Almost everyone was getting on their soapbox on social media to shame people who were wearing masks or trying to acquire a mask. Yes I know there’s a difference between an N95 respirator and a cloth mask. But that’s beside the point. If the virus can be transmitted over an air gap, then people should be able to buy whatever face covering they want to contain the risk to themselves or their family maximally. And there’s nothing morally wrong with them trying to acquire the highest degree of protection possible, including N95 respirators. Predictably someone is going to respond to this comment and say that the mask is more necessary for medical professionals or that it is more to prevent particles from exiting your own mouth towards others. The former might be true but it is totally okay for people to want to prioritize their own health. And as for the latter - clearly the reverse transmission is very possible (particles into your mouth/nose) and it is just a matter of time before everyone acknowledges this more openly and starts recommending N95s (most likely once supply constraints are alleviated and the lies are no longer needed). Just as a reminder: the WHO, possibly at China’s behest, claimed even as late as the middle of January that the virus wasn’t transmissible between humans, a month after Wuhan doctors observed exactly this. It took several weeks for airborne transmission on particles to be acknowledged. And then weeks again to note that the virus can linger on various surfaces and materials. The lesson to be learned is to trust personal judgment and common sense. Be self reliant, and don’t put faith in random authorities who’ve done little to earn your trust. EDIT: this article discusses the WHO’s failures in this whole fiasco and how they are a political organization, more than a trustworthy medical organization: https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68 https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6...

ericb 7y ago
We've built this "masks should be saved for healthcare workers" strawman ourselves with bad policy. Masks should be plentiful. Citizens wearing masks also saves healthcare workers!

vehemenz 7y ago

I have 30 or so surgical masks that I bought in early January (I read the news), but now that consumers can't access those supply chains, I'm afraid to donate extras.

pureliquidhw 7y ago
This may be unpopular, but for 30 masks it probably isn't worth the risk to donate. Between interacting and potentially being a carrier, it would be better if you used them yourself going to the grocery store/pharmacy once every other week to prevent spread. You getting infected would cause more of a problem vs the small impact 30 masks would have in a hospital.
numpad0 7y ago
That masks would have to be considered contaminated anyway under the current(far from apocalyptic) circumstances
renewiltord 7y ago
I was able to donate my masks through a local healthcare worker. They can still use it. The thing to remember is that mask reuse is possible and a damned good idea. Btw, as usual there's more misinformation as to what masks healthcare workers will find useful. People will tell you that you can't share those because they're contaminated - wrong! I already did so in a fully informed manner. People will tell you that you can't reuse - wrong! You absolutely can reuse. Keep eight. Keep them separate. Do not allow contact of anything with the inside. Keep them face up in an isolated area. One every day of the week. In fact, I'm just a random person. Don't trust me. Don't trust the agencies. Follow the actions people are taking that are working. Follow the evidence.
sjg007 7y ago
You can order from China but shipments take a month....

m0zg 7y ago

What's going to really cook your noodle is when the CDC admits that the Trump pills work, which by all accounts they do, but you won't find it in the press: everything is very carefully suppressed. https://www.sermo.com/press-releases/largest-statistically-significant-study-by-6200-multi-country-physicians-on-covid-19-uncovers-treatment-patterns-and-puts-pandemic-in-context/ https://www.sermo.com/press-releases/largest-statistically-s... Doesn't matter what they say, doctors worldwide are using them anyway, in spite of the absence of rigorous, multi-year, double blind, randomized studies. It'll probably take another week or two for them to not be able to sweep this under the rug anymore.

nojvek 7y ago
I’m getting messages from Whatsapp groups. Taking a hot shower or sitting in a hot tub kills the virus. Drinking Eucalyptus with vodka gives you immunity. Millions of people are doing it and doctors are recommending it. It’s not clinically tried but it works. Otherwise why would others do it? /s

beaunative 7y ago

CDC lied because people will panic buy, see what happened with toilet paper, it got ample supply, but still cant handle people buying them for year round quantity. They suspect our healthcare system will crash in a blink if people were panic buying masks either because medical professionals were in strike or sick

colmvp 7y ago
There's already a massive shortage of masks so I don't what lying about it and then changing stances during a crisis is supposed to accomplish. But given their failure with Covid testing early on, it doesn't surprise me to see them bungle.

renewiltord 7y ago

I was talking to some folks about the ill-advised CDC and WHO recommendations on masks, the resulting poor handling by the US government, and the rampant cargo-culting by people on Twitter, Reddit, and HN who decided to just signal-amplify the misinformation from US government agencies without critical thought. While we were doing that, I decided to go see what Taiwan's timeline looked like. Pasting here for your sake. New Year's Eve: Rumours of viral pneumonia in Wuhan. All inbound flights from Wuhan subject to inspection Jan 5: All Wuhan travelers exhibiting upper respiratory inspections are now subject to screening Jan 20: First positive test Jan 21: Mask export ban, production ramp-up Jan 31: Taiwanese government forced monopsony on masks (1/3 reserved for healthcare personnel). Announces rationing first week of Feb Feb 2: Taiwanese defence personnel dispatched to bolster staffing at mask factories Feb 6: Mask rationing starts Feb 15: Mask production by end of month projected to be 10 million / day. Taiwanese population: 24 million Mar 9: Mask production 9.2 million / day Mar 16: Production 10 million / day Mar 22: Production 12.6 million / day April 3. Taiwan: Population 24 million. Density: 649 people/sq.km. First case: Jan 20. Cases: 348. Deaths: 5 April 3. Florida: Population 21.5 million. 136.5 people/sq.km. First case: Mar 7. Cases: 10268. Deaths: 170 Did we have to make the choice between the economy and lives? Did we have to choose between grandma and the dollar? Could policy have changed the outcome? You decide.

nojvek 7y ago
Ramping up PPE and ventilators at the first hint of an infectious disease would have saved tons of lives. The second thing was closing borders. We wouldn’t need a massive lockdown inside the country if only negatively tested people were coming in. Airlines would have taken a big hit, yes, but you’d still save the economy. It would be way cheaper to pay the airlines for all their potential lost fare than 20% of the population unemployed. The president still not wearing mask in public says it all. He won’t take this seriously until he himself gets infected and gets seriously ill. The negligence is atrocious.
- renewiltord 7y ago
  The President is not a generally competent pandemic-response person. His strengths are elsewhere. But the people who have held the jobs that were intended to be experts on this failed and are failing. The rot is institutional because bureaucrats always outlast elected administrations. Naturally, the "useful idiots" that the bureaucracy exploits are an additional problem. I haven't yet determined if they're a minor problem or if they provide the weight of opinion. If you have a thousand people who will say "Masks don't work" if the CDC says "Masks don't work" are the thousand people more dangerous or the CDC more dangerous. Probably the CDC, I think.