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Eclipse Theia 1.0 – Open-Source Alternative to Visual Studio Code

178 points by eiffel31 7y ago

makkesk8 7y ago
The Flexible Layout is almost enough to get me to switch since this is a feature in vscode I would really like to have.
whalesalad 7y ago
A link to the actual editor page: https://theia-ide.org https://theia-ide.org
trishume 7y ago
I was confused why the screenshot on the homepage (https://theia-ide.org/ https://theia-ide.org/) looked so outrageously similar to VSCode, so I checked the source. It looks like the editor widget is Monaco (from VSCode) so the text editing experience is entirely based on VSCode and Theia provides an alternative for the surrounding IDE stuff. Then they added a theme that imitates VSCode as much as possible to create the screenshot on the homepage, other instances like their example of Gitpod look less like VSCode.
- sbuttgereit 7y ago
  Yeah... My first thought was, OK... they've just forked VS Code without really saying they did. Digging a bit it seemed that wasn't the case, but the marketing message that "this is VS Code just without Microsoft" would seem to be strong enough as to cause real marketplace confusion.
  - kiliancs 7y ago
    It's not really a fork. They reuse things like Monaco, but other than that they reimplement most things, like plugin compatibility. In fact, they started with an API and later implemented the same API as vscode. I'd say it's more like a clone. I was very excited about theia because you could run it as a web server, meaning I could develop with a complete IDE (ideal for TypeScript development) from anywhere, without the code ever leaving a certain network. This didn't work all that well when I tried it because it wasn't 100% compatible with vscode extensions yet (for example couldn't get vim keybindings), but I was able to use for a couple weeks during a trip and I got things done. Now that vscode allows working over ssh and other solutions, I don't see a need for an alternative. I can work remotely with the exact same thing as from my main workstation.
- animalnewbie 7y ago
  This is like hypocrisy dying a thousand deaths. If you hate MS why use their editor?
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  The page admits that they think VS Code is great, so reused lots of its design and open source code it was based on. They also use the LSP, meaning many extensions should be easy to port. This is basically a direct adoption of VS Code in the Eclipse context. I don’t see anything wrong here, they aren’t hiding their intentions and a lot of of them criticism here just seem to be projections of things they aren’t claiming.
- ksec 7y ago
  Dang: Can we actually change the link to this instead of a PR with loads of cooperate gibberish.
- lobo42 7y ago
  We reengineered VS Code without altering the UX too much, because we love it as it is. The problems we solved are: - making it easier to adjust beyond the standard extension model, which is great for language support but rather limiting for product designers - support browsers and on desktop (There is VSO but it is not open-source) - do all this under a vendor neutral open-source governance
altoidaltoid 7y ago
Excellent, I found my time sink for today. Another IDE!
- sigzero 7y ago
  Nah, you can't actually download it.
malkia 7y ago
But why?
_benj 7y ago
If this is intended to be a VSCode alternative, where are the download area? Why the strong emphasis on cloud? A version 1.0 with no package released? need top run it on docker? I don't want to sound negative, I would really want to download it an try it... but from what I see in a quick glance, they want me to setup a whole cloud to use this, not how I envision an editor that is trying to take on the most popular editor nowadays
- aDfbrtVt 7y ago
  Really odd that RedHat is a part of the development group but I can't find a package for RHEL. Link to the Docker https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps#theia-docker https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps#theia-docker
- majkinetor 7y ago
  https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps#theia-desktop https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps#theia-desktop
  - _benj 7y ago
    TBD :)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- oaiey 7y ago
  Theia is a platform to build IDEs not an IDE. And it is focused on cloud usage and not desktop based usage. At least that what I read and understand.
- lobo42 7y ago
  Theia is a platform to allow building desktop and browser IDEs, not a product in itself. You can use it through gitpod.io on any GitHub or GitLab project. The strong emphasize on browser/cloud is because we believe we have finally built a browser-based IDE that is as good as the most popular desktop IDE (VS Code). Having solved that cloud based IDEs are going to be the normal in a couple of years and will naturally complete our devops pipelines. See also: https://www.gitpod.io/blog/continuous-dev-environment-in-devops/ https://www.gitpod.io/blog/continuous-dev-environment-in-dev...
newprint 7y ago
But why ? What is the point ? There is already Visual Studio(free community edition equivalent to Professional Edition), Visual Studio Code, IntelliJ. Why waste more time and effort to re-invent the wheel ? As OSS project, it will not be able to keep-up with changes to MSBuild and .NET
- pizza234 7y ago
  IntelliJ is not entirely free, and VS Community Edition is not "equivalent" to the Professional Edition.
  - The_rationalist 7y ago
    Intellij community is the open source IDE that has by far the most features. So even if you can pay for the premium version, I would argue that jetbrains is in it's own league.
- scriptproof 7y ago
  Citation: "Unfortunately, Microsoft prohibits non-Visual Studio products from installing any binaries downloaded from their marketplace". Etc...
  - ubertaco 7y ago
    If that were the case, then coc.nvim [0] wouldn't work quite the way it does. I run VSCode extensions in NeoVim all the time now. [0] https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim
    - animalnewbie 7y ago
      Did I read/you write that correctly? "VSCode extensions in NeoVim"? (Going to be honest, haven't used either since I'm on "plain" vim right now)
      - 40four 7y ago
sbuttgereit 7y ago
OK, I'll bite... "...that enable developers, organizations, and vendors to create new, extensible solutions that avoid the fees associated with VS Code." What fees are they talking about? VS Code is not my regular editor, but the whole thing seems to indicate confusion between "Visual Studio" and "Visual Studio Code". I am missing something or is the Eclipse Foundation really conflating the two?
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Yeah, I don't see the point of this, either. If you're looking for an alternative to Visual Studio Code, isn't that what VS Codium is for?
  - bilbo0s 7y ago
    Why switch from VS Code to Codium? That makes even less sense than a switch to Eclipse. If you're on VS Code, just use VS Code. If you're on Eclipse, just use Eclipse. But yeah, get to market. Quibbling over quasi-religious beliefs, like X is better than Y, is exactly what allows some kid on his couch in his boxers watching SportsCenter while working on his website to beat your funded startup to market.
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      Why switch from VS Code to Codium? For me, it was because I don't want to be spied on by Microsoft. VS Codium is VS Code without the telemetry and tracking.
      - flyinglizard 7y ago
        As I became involved in more and more products and customer feedback, I started opting into telemetry collection programs. It’s ultimately what helps make the products I use better.
        reaperducer 7y ago
manigandham 7y ago
Product page: https://theia-ide.org/ https://theia-ide.org/ Release blog post: https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser-ide-3ok0 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser... They claim it's a framework for building domain-specific IDEs that uses the same extension framework and language server protocols developed by the VS team. However VS Code already offers a desktop installer and runs in the cloud like VSOnline and CodeSandbox. And I'm not sure why a "neutral" extension marketplace matters because you can always download and install the extensions separately.
jve 7y ago
And in what sense VSCode isn't a "true" open source app? Just because the installer isnt open sourced? > Theia relies on Visual Studio Code’s Language Server Protocol to provide language-specific code completion and the other features we expect in a modern code editor. https://www.infoworld.com/article/3342624/cloud-ide-shoot-out-aws-cloud9-vs-eclipse-che-vs-eclipse-theia.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/3342624/cloud-ide-shoot-ou... Okay, they reuse parts from VSCode in true open source spirit and make claims like that. > Theia 1.0 also has a marketplace that is available today and, in the spirit of true open source community, allows for even non-VS Code applications to use these extensions What does that mean? Looked up and appears that IDE is built with extensions and you can use those APIs to customize IDE. + provides APIs from VSCode to maintain compatibility. Ok thats neat.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  When I read it, it seemed like the decisionmaking for the software being under corporate control was their primary issue. VS Code will always be developed in a strategy aligned with Microsoft's interests.
  - oaiey 7y ago
    Like for most modern open source. And that is usually a good thing. Even free software are not developed in public but under tight control of a group of persons. Just that we call them maintainers, do not pay them and their interest is usually glory or their own use instead of marketing of a cloud product.
    - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
      There's a big difference between open source tools led by open source communities or individuals and open source tools led by Big Tech. Often the latter may decline features which are against the interests of the company, even if they're in the interests of all of the users.
      - oaiey 7y ago
majkinetor 7y ago
While I don't plan to use it in the near futre, its good to have alternative because company agendas do change and less so in non-profit zone. But, the major benefit IMO is this: > We encourage VS Code extension developers to push their extensions to Open VSX in addition to Microsoft’s marketplace.” Open VSX is “an open-source implementation of a VS Code extension registry that we have developed under the umbrella of the Eclipse Foundation This sounds like a nice thing to have and is usable ASAP. It will probably come with less potential restrictions (like political bans of developers on GitHub etc.)
- cycloptic 7y ago
  Could Open VSX be used with VSCodium, and could it potentially be made a default there? They have expressed an interest in using a different marketplace: https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/DOCS.md#extensions--marketplace https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/DOCS.md#ext... Edit: Someone just opened an issue. If that was you and you're reading this, thanks! https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/372 https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/372
keb_ 7y ago
Silly observation, but the Gitpod logo looks almost exactly like the GameCube logo.
The_rationalist 7y ago
HS but does anybody know some useful features that classic eclipse offer that vscode/theia hasn't?
therealmarv 7y ago
VSCodium is already here https://vscodium.com/ https://vscodium.com/ So in future I need different VSCode variants running because one project decides to use Theia and the other one is okay with VSCode?! Really great for the users :( Seems Eclipse is doing what they are best at: Clutter things up. I don't see the big picture here.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  Why would any project require a specific kind of editor?
  - oblio 7y ago
    Team standards, for example.
- outside1234 7y ago
  Google and IBM are trying to derail Microsoft at the expense of developers. Surprised there aren't ads in it to track us or Watson to do code suggestions (oh wait, that would mean bundling a consultant, nevermind).
scriptproof 7y ago
Tried to make an app. That requires yarn. Yarn stopped because I have Node.js version 12 and version 10 is expected!!! Are they serious?
- enesunal 7y ago
  Haha! Didn't expect that. v1.0 software that has a very straight forward bug. I'm curious if they did any tiny bit correct.
- anton_kosyakov 7y ago
  Please see https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia/issues/7349#issuecomment-599591096 https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia/issues/7349#issuecomm... You can try Theia via Gitpod: https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-next-step-in-devops-4ab7 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-... For instance run Theia repo itself: https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia
LessDmesg 7y ago
Another "IDE" written in some sort ofJavascript? Yeah, good luck with performance.
nailer 7y ago
"True Open-Source Alternative to Visual Studio Code" misleadingly implies VScode isn't Open Source. Flagging the article. There is no 'true' Open Source. There is software that meets the OSD, and software that does not. VScode is Open Source.
- Angeo34 7y ago
  vscode isn't open source it's proprietary Microsoft. only "code oss" is.
  - nailer 7y ago
    The difference is trademark files (which are handled by copyright not software licenses) and settings (likewise these are not licensed). Almost exactly like Red Hat Linux compared to CentOS. See https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-161792005 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-1...
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - nailer 7y ago
    Responding a second time as HN seems to have missed the relevant part from that link: > "When you clone and build from the vscode repo, none of these endpoints are configured in the default product.json. Therefore, you generate a "clean" build, without the Microsoft customizations, which is by default licensed under the MIT license (note, i made this commit to help make this more clear)."
gdsdfe 7y ago
I think this might explain why they made Theia : https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser-ide-3ok0 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser...
- cxr 7y ago
  If that's so, then they truly fumbled on execution. Open VSX requires GitHub OAuth for login.
  - gdsdfe 7y ago
    it requires OAuth, not github's OAuth
    - cxr 7y ago
      If you've successfully logged in with non-Github OAuth, can you substantiate that with steps to reproduce? E.g, 1. Navigate to https://open-vsx.org/ https://open-vsx.org/ 2. [etc…]
      - gdsdfe 7y ago
        Haven't tried it myself but you can always go to the code and do it yourself : I think the confusion here is that https://open-vsx.org/ https://open-vsx.org/ requires github which is normal, they can require whatever they want you can even go in and add something else => https://github.com/eclipse/open-vsx.org https://github.com/eclipse/open-vsx.org or roll your own : https://github.com/eclipse/openvsx https://github.com/eclipse/openvsx
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        cxr 7y ago
bobblywobbles 7y ago
What are the problems with VSCode? I'm all for making alternatives if they are closed or you need to pay, but I believe Microsoft is doing a good service with all the regular and frequent updates to VSCode. Correct me if I missed something.
- whatsmyusername 7y ago
  It's not not-vscode so someone had to make not-vscode vscode.
  - throw_away 7y ago
    Here, I've been using not-eclipse all this time.
- pkaye 7y ago
  I think they want to allow a non Microsoft branded version they can bundle with their software. So for example if you buy the ARM commercial compilers, this will come as the bundled code editor.
- anton_kosyakov 7y ago
  VS Code has a clear scope to be smart light-weight editor. It fits to mainstream needs indeed, but not for firms trying to build domain specific IDEs. Theia does not have problems with VS Code. It embraces great tech and UX behind VS Code and makes it available to build custom products with ability to rebrand UI, get full control of developer experience, and so on. There is no competition, but rather collaboration. So far Theia adopters were building own products by porting interesting tech from VS Code and contributing bug and feature requests back. Sometimes even by going and proposing fixes for them in VS Code.
saagarjha 7y ago
> Theia is designed from the ground to run on both Desktop and Cloud > Both the frontend and backend processes have their dependency injection (DI) That’s pretty buzzwordy :/
gigatexal 7y ago
What non OSS things are there to vscode? Is it the controversial telemetry stuff they’re doing that’s causing forks?
- snazz 7y ago
  The installer and binaries distributed from Microsoft are not OSS.
  - cchance 7y ago
    So build it yourself? Like seriously are we really nitpicking over the installer and binaries now which the source is available for the actual product? It really feels like the industry is never happy if it has anything to do with microsoft.
    - tristan957 7y ago
      The extension repository is also not open source.
hirako2000 7y ago
I tend to ignore what the Eclipse foundation is producing because of their poor development of the Eclipse IDE; they do have a point though when they mention true open source. VS Code is excellent, but is backed by a for profit enterprise, the same enterprise that now backs the Atom editor. There are a number concerns pending when our development and infrastructure eco systems are open source but controlled by for profit entities. Or perhaps there is no concern, let's type our code with VS Code, Stash it on Github, attend daily updates and video conference to discuss as a group on Team, and deploy on Azure.
- pkaye 7y ago
  Just because you use VS Code doesn't mean your have to use Github, Team or Azure.
animalnewbie 7y ago
I prefer QtCreator- it's not written in Electron.
- _benj 7y ago
  Isn't QtCreator kind of too focused on Qt? I have used it and love it, but I was writing QML, not Python or JS for a web project. Have you been able to use QtCreator for more than C/C++ and Qt?
  - animalnewbie 7y ago
    I use it for Rust!
bebop 7y ago
Since no one else has brought this up, I think one of the big drivers behind this project is actually another eclipse project (che): https://www.eclipse.org/che/technology/ https://www.eclipse.org/che/technology/ Che is a cloud ide that is supposed to be easily deployed into a k8s cluster. Che supports authentication and spinning up pods for projects, and other management features. Theia may have been developed to work nicely with Che directly (I am not a developer of either so this is only speculation).
- bigredhdl 7y ago
  I'm always surprised how little CHE gets talked about. Is there an alternative that has better traction? I tried it a few years ago and conceptually it was really ahead of its time in terms of spinning up a dev environment on the fly. Unfortunately the latest version, now based on k8s, was much more finicky to get setup in a home lab.
- sergiotapia 7y ago
  terrible name unfortunately
polskibus 7y ago
I think the only way to beat vs code at this point is to implement IDE in a native language without GC. VSCode , eclipse etc can be very sluggish on large-ish projects, slow downs accumulate with code base size growth leading to usability problems, slow autocompletion etc.
- jjuel 7y ago
  So you mean Sublime Text? (Yes I understand it isn't open source)
  - _benj 7y ago
    For some reason I'm able to find plugins for what I need in VSCode but not for Sublime :( I really really like Sublime Text and own a license, but the lack of plugins or outdated one (only available for ST2?) makes it less than optimal for my daily driver
- xendke 7y ago
  I think part of the reason why VSCode is popular is because of how extensible it is. Also, the fact that it's built around JS makes it accessible to more people which means more extensions for example.
- benibela 7y ago
  But that is how IDEs used to be. vim, kdevelop, qt creator, texstudio, ...
pseudosavant 7y ago
The title of this post makes as much sense as: - FreeBSD, the open-source alternative to Linux - Baidu, the privacy abusing alternative to Google - Elon Musk, the self-absorbed prick alternative to Steve Jobs
chimen 7y ago
Spent a good amount of time figuring out how to download this thing and test it out. I give up. What takes? Or is it just a browser based IDE?
- anton_kosyakov 7y ago
  Sorry, to hear it. Theia is an IDE platform and does not target end users but product builders. For end users, we build Gitpod based on Theia to support continious dev environments: https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-next-step-in-devops-4ab7 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-... You can try to open Theia in Gitpod: https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia Alternatively we provide community supported docker images: https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps
didibus 7y ago
* Theia powers Gitpod's continuous development environments. You can try opening Theia in Theia. * Google runs Theia as the editor in the Google Cloud Shell, * Arduino's new Pro IDE is based on Theia , * SAP have replaced their Web IDE with Theia , * Arm's new mbed Studio is based on Theia, and * D-Wave Systems have adopted Gitpod which allows anyone to do quantum computing with Theia Seems it's really focused on running embedded in browser, and also allowing you create custom IDE environments from it more easily.
- lobo42 7y ago
  Please note that Arms's and Arduino's editors are not running in browsers (yet), but are downloadable desktop applications.
jtdev 7y ago
If it has borrowed any concepts from Eclipse IDE (like workspaces and hidden dirs stuffed with XML)... it’s a hard pass for me.
- cardiffspaceman 7y ago
  I'm an active user of both Eclipse CDT and VS Code. They both have a thing called "workspaces." VScode's hidden dirs are filled with JSON (so hot right now).
  - jtdev 7y ago
    You mean the .vscode dir? Yeah, that typically contains 2 incredibly sparse , readable, and useful files... the same cannot be said for Eclipse workspaces in my experience.
ajay_sibri04 7y ago
People still hate microsoft? I thought we were all supposed to hate google now and they are a contributor of this project.
enesunal 7y ago
Attacking an open-source software to promote another open-source software. You needed to do better dear Eclipse Foundation. This isn't the philosophy behind open-source. edit: Wait. Is this an early April fools' day joke?
- number6 7y ago
  while vs is technically open source it's not free software. not only in the gnu sense but also the binaries are licensed different as the source code. You have to compile vs yourself to benefit from the licensing of the source code
  - oaiey 7y ago
    The whole purpose of "open source" and "free software" is to allow modifications and ownership by the user. Both requires to compile on your own. So I would not call it a burden (as opposed to "benefit") but a consequence of being open source. So we should consider the binaries as a branded favor of Microsoft for the lazy rest of us ;)
benatkin 7y ago
On https://theia-ide.org/ https://theia-ide.org/ it says the shell is based on PhosphorJS. When I follow the link to the repo, it says it's archived. Have they vendored it yet? https://github.com/phosphorjs/phosphor https://github.com/phosphorjs/phosphor
- anton_kosyakov 7y ago
  Yeah, it came to surprise to us too. We are going to merge PhosphorJS into Theia repo and make it more configurable: https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia/issues/6501 https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia/issues/6501
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dzonga 7y ago
not even a download button, but aye they've released v1.0. Are they mad about VSCode telemetry ? try installing it via git clone, they require an old version of node.
- anton_kosyakov 7y ago
  Theia does not target end users. It is IDE platform for product builders. Think if you want to build domain specific IDE which inherits VS Code UX. See who is using Theia and why here: https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser-ide-3ok0 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser... For end users, we build Gitpod to provide continious development environment: https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-next-step-in-devops-4ab7 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-... For instance try to run Theia: https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia After try to build Theia from sources locally.
bamuniz 7y ago
I used Eclipse for Java for several years, but not anymore... If they launched a lighter version, why not? Let's give it a try =P (just change the subject of the thread for a more decent and less appealing pls =P)
iddan 7y ago
VSCode is open source. This is a misleading title
- tristan957 7y ago
  The Visual Studio Code distribution from Microsoft is not open source. Code-OSS is open source and that is the vscode repository on GitHub. The relationship is very much like Chromium and Chrome.
  - oaiey 7y ago
    Just that the out-of-the box Open Source VS Code is modified by roughly 5 configuration options (you guessed, telemetry urls), icons and a EULA before it is packaged by Microsoft. I would not call that closed source. I call that redistributed with pre-configured settings. It is similar to what RedHat is doing to Linux and the GNU user space (if I am not wrong ;)) However, the extension market space, certain debuggers and certain VS Code branded extensions are a different story.
sigzero 7y ago
Bad name for an editor really.
outside1234 7y ago
I mean, do they think we are idiots? Visual Studio Code is clearly open source with an MIT license. https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode EDIT: OH WAIT - I see - they forked at least parts of Visual Studio Code and then open sourced it. In other words -- proving that Visual Studio Code is open source.
- tristan957 7y ago
  None of the code seems to be a fork Visual Studio Code is indeed not open source. If you grab, the binary from Microsoft it is slightly different than the code on the GitHub repository because Microsoft applies some Microsoft-specific things. The extension repo is closed source as well. It has long been a requested feature for open-source extension repository variants. Code-OSS is open-source however. So no they do not think we are idiots.
siproprio 7y ago
The interface looks like vscode.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
znpy 7y ago
friendly reminder that while visual studio code is open source, the binary that you download from their website is not, and it's full of telemetry (and remember: telemetry ~= spyware). consider using an alternative like eclipse theia or vs codium (https://vscodium.com/ https://vscodium.com/ - binaries built from the open source repositories)
srndh 6y ago
I was hoping Eclipse/Firefox would partner with Sublime Text/NotePad++. There is enough people on electron-based text editor with Atom & VSCode variant. I was hoping a different product needs to grow. Yes, I know ST is closed-source. But as a user, I feel that its starting to hurt ST. I personally feel (not a pro-developer), ST is better than VSCode. ST is a better match for Firefox. I am hoping that the ST developer joins Mozilla. Notepad++ has a eclipse-lite vibe. I was hoping eclipse could help Notepad++ reach linux & mac. But please dont put it in JVM, that is the original sin of Eclipse. We need more alternatives.
pachico 6y ago
I use vscode and I personally love it (I mostly use it for PHP and Go). I read a lot of strong opinions and I'm curious to know how many have actually given Theia a try before complaining about it. :)

178 points by eiffel31 7y ago

makkesk8 7y ago

The Flexible Layout is almost enough to get me to switch since this is a feature in vscode I would really like to have.

whalesalad 7y ago

A link to the actual editor page: https://theia-ide.org https://theia-ide.org

trishume 7y ago

I was confused why the screenshot on the homepage (https://theia-ide.org/ https://theia-ide.org/) looked so outrageously similar to VSCode, so I checked the source. It looks like the editor widget is Monaco (from VSCode) so the text editing experience is entirely based on VSCode and Theia provides an alternative for the surrounding IDE stuff. Then they added a theme that imitates VSCode as much as possible to create the screenshot on the homepage, other instances like their example of Gitpod look less like VSCode.

sbuttgereit 7y ago
Yeah... My first thought was, OK... they've just forked VS Code without really saying they did. Digging a bit it seemed that wasn't the case, but the marketing message that "this is VS Code just without Microsoft" would seem to be strong enough as to cause real marketplace confusion.
- kiliancs 7y ago
  It's not really a fork. They reuse things like Monaco, but other than that they reimplement most things, like plugin compatibility. In fact, they started with an API and later implemented the same API as vscode. I'd say it's more like a clone. I was very excited about theia because you could run it as a web server, meaning I could develop with a complete IDE (ideal for TypeScript development) from anywhere, without the code ever leaving a certain network. This didn't work all that well when I tried it because it wasn't 100% compatible with vscode extensions yet (for example couldn't get vim keybindings), but I was able to use for a couple weeks during a trip and I got things done. Now that vscode allows working over ssh and other solutions, I don't see a need for an alternative. I can work remotely with the exact same thing as from my main workstation.
animalnewbie 7y ago
This is like hypocrisy dying a thousand deaths. If you hate MS why use their editor?
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
The page admits that they think VS Code is great, so reused lots of its design and open source code it was based on. They also use the LSP, meaning many extensions should be easy to port. This is basically a direct adoption of VS Code in the Eclipse context. I don’t see anything wrong here, they aren’t hiding their intentions and a lot of of them criticism here just seem to be projections of things they aren’t claiming.
ksec 7y ago
Dang: Can we actually change the link to this instead of a PR with loads of cooperate gibberish.
lobo42 7y ago
We reengineered VS Code without altering the UX too much, because we love it as it is. The problems we solved are: - making it easier to adjust beyond the standard extension model, which is great for language support but rather limiting for product designers - support browsers and on desktop (There is VSO but it is not open-source) - do all this under a vendor neutral open-source governance

altoidaltoid 7y ago

Excellent, I found my time sink for today. Another IDE!

sigzero 7y ago
Nah, you can't actually download it.

malkia 7y ago

But why?

_benj 7y ago

If this is intended to be a VSCode alternative, where are the download area? Why the strong emphasis on cloud? A version 1.0 with no package released? need top run it on docker? I don't want to sound negative, I would really want to download it an try it... but from what I see in a quick glance, they want me to setup a whole cloud to use this, not how I envision an editor that is trying to take on the most popular editor nowadays

aDfbrtVt 7y ago
Really odd that RedHat is a part of the development group but I can't find a package for RHEL. Link to the Docker https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps#theia-docker https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps#theia-docker
majkinetor 7y ago
https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps#theia-desktop https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps#theia-desktop
- _benj 7y ago
  TBD :)
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
oaiey 7y ago
Theia is a platform to build IDEs not an IDE. And it is focused on cloud usage and not desktop based usage. At least that what I read and understand.
lobo42 7y ago
Theia is a platform to allow building desktop and browser IDEs, not a product in itself. You can use it through gitpod.io on any GitHub or GitLab project. The strong emphasize on browser/cloud is because we believe we have finally built a browser-based IDE that is as good as the most popular desktop IDE (VS Code). Having solved that cloud based IDEs are going to be the normal in a couple of years and will naturally complete our devops pipelines. See also: https://www.gitpod.io/blog/continuous-dev-environment-in-devops/ https://www.gitpod.io/blog/continuous-dev-environment-in-dev...

newprint 7y ago

But why ? What is the point ? There is already Visual Studio(free community edition equivalent to Professional Edition), Visual Studio Code, IntelliJ. Why waste more time and effort to re-invent the wheel ? As OSS project, it will not be able to keep-up with changes to MSBuild and .NET

pizza234 7y ago
IntelliJ is not entirely free, and VS Community Edition is not "equivalent" to the Professional Edition.
- The_rationalist 7y ago
  Intellij community is the open source IDE that has by far the most features. So even if you can pay for the premium version, I would argue that jetbrains is in it's own league.
scriptproof 7y ago
Citation: "Unfortunately, Microsoft prohibits non-Visual Studio products from installing any binaries downloaded from their marketplace". Etc...
- ubertaco 7y ago
  If that were the case, then coc.nvim [0] wouldn't work quite the way it does. I run VSCode extensions in NeoVim all the time now. [0] https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim https://github.com/neoclide/coc.nvim
  - animalnewbie 7y ago
    Did I read/you write that correctly? "VSCode extensions in NeoVim"? (Going to be honest, haven't used either since I'm on "plain" vim right now)
    - 40four 7y ago

sbuttgereit 7y ago

OK, I'll bite... "...that enable developers, organizations, and vendors to create new, extensible solutions that avoid the fees associated with VS Code." What fees are they talking about? VS Code is not my regular editor, but the whole thing seems to indicate confusion between "Visual Studio" and "Visual Studio Code". I am missing something or is the Eclipse Foundation really conflating the two?

reaperducer 7y ago
Yeah, I don't see the point of this, either. If you're looking for an alternative to Visual Studio Code, isn't that what VS Codium is for?
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  Why switch from VS Code to Codium? That makes even less sense than a switch to Eclipse. If you're on VS Code, just use VS Code. If you're on Eclipse, just use Eclipse. But yeah, get to market. Quibbling over quasi-religious beliefs, like X is better than Y, is exactly what allows some kid on his couch in his boxers watching SportsCenter while working on his website to beat your funded startup to market.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Why switch from VS Code to Codium? For me, it was because I don't want to be spied on by Microsoft. VS Codium is VS Code without the telemetry and tracking.
    - flyinglizard 7y ago
      As I became involved in more and more products and customer feedback, I started opting into telemetry collection programs. It’s ultimately what helps make the products I use better.
      - reaperducer 7y ago

manigandham 7y ago

Product page: https://theia-ide.org/ https://theia-ide.org/ Release blog post: https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser-ide-3ok0 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser... They claim it's a framework for building domain-specific IDEs that uses the same extension framework and language server protocols developed by the VS team. However VS Code already offers a desktop installer and runs in the cloud like VSOnline and CodeSandbox. And I'm not sure why a "neutral" extension marketplace matters because you can always download and install the extensions separately.

jve 7y ago

And in what sense VSCode isn't a "true" open source app? Just because the installer isnt open sourced? > Theia relies on Visual Studio Code’s Language Server Protocol to provide language-specific code completion and the other features we expect in a modern code editor. https://www.infoworld.com/article/3342624/cloud-ide-shoot-out-aws-cloud9-vs-eclipse-che-vs-eclipse-theia.html https://www.infoworld.com/article/3342624/cloud-ide-shoot-ou... Okay, they reuse parts from VSCode in true open source spirit and make claims like that. > Theia 1.0 also has a marketplace that is available today and, in the spirit of true open source community, allows for even non-VS Code applications to use these extensions What does that mean? Looked up and appears that IDE is built with extensions and you can use those APIs to customize IDE. + provides APIs from VSCode to maintain compatibility. Ok thats neat.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
When I read it, it seemed like the decisionmaking for the software being under corporate control was their primary issue. VS Code will always be developed in a strategy aligned with Microsoft's interests.
- oaiey 7y ago
  Like for most modern open source. And that is usually a good thing. Even free software are not developed in public but under tight control of a group of persons. Just that we call them maintainers, do not pay them and their interest is usually glory or their own use instead of marketing of a cloud product.
  - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
    There's a big difference between open source tools led by open source communities or individuals and open source tools led by Big Tech. Often the latter may decline features which are against the interests of the company, even if they're in the interests of all of the users.
    - oaiey 7y ago

majkinetor 7y ago

While I don't plan to use it in the near futre, its good to have alternative because company agendas do change and less so in non-profit zone. But, the major benefit IMO is this: > We encourage VS Code extension developers to push their extensions to Open VSX in addition to Microsoft’s marketplace.” Open VSX is “an open-source implementation of a VS Code extension registry that we have developed under the umbrella of the Eclipse Foundation This sounds like a nice thing to have and is usable ASAP. It will probably come with less potential restrictions (like political bans of developers on GitHub etc.)

cycloptic 7y ago
Could Open VSX be used with VSCodium, and could it potentially be made a default there? They have expressed an interest in using a different marketplace: https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/DOCS.md#extensions--marketplace https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/DOCS.md#ext... Edit: Someone just opened an issue. If that was you and you're reading this, thanks! https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/372 https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/372

keb_ 7y ago

Silly observation, but the Gitpod logo looks almost exactly like the GameCube logo.

The_rationalist 7y ago

HS but does anybody know some useful features that classic eclipse offer that vscode/theia hasn't?

therealmarv 7y ago

VSCodium is already here https://vscodium.com/ https://vscodium.com/ So in future I need different VSCode variants running because one project decides to use Theia and the other one is okay with VSCode?! Really great for the users :( Seems Eclipse is doing what they are best at: Clutter things up. I don't see the big picture here.

ilikehurdles 7y ago
Why would any project require a specific kind of editor?
- oblio 7y ago
  Team standards, for example.
outside1234 7y ago
Google and IBM are trying to derail Microsoft at the expense of developers. Surprised there aren't ads in it to track us or Watson to do code suggestions (oh wait, that would mean bundling a consultant, nevermind).

scriptproof 7y ago

Tried to make an app. That requires yarn. Yarn stopped because I have Node.js version 12 and version 10 is expected!!! Are they serious?

enesunal 7y ago
Haha! Didn't expect that. v1.0 software that has a very straight forward bug. I'm curious if they did any tiny bit correct.
anton_kosyakov 7y ago
Please see https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia/issues/7349#issuecomment-599591096 https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia/issues/7349#issuecomm... You can try Theia via Gitpod: https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-next-step-in-devops-4ab7 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-... For instance run Theia repo itself: https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia

LessDmesg 7y ago

Another "IDE" written in some sort ofJavascript? Yeah, good luck with performance.

nailer 7y ago

"True Open-Source Alternative to Visual Studio Code" misleadingly implies VScode isn't Open Source. Flagging the article. There is no 'true' Open Source. There is software that meets the OSD, and software that does not. VScode is Open Source.

Angeo34 7y ago
vscode isn't open source it's proprietary Microsoft. only "code oss" is.
- nailer 7y ago
  The difference is trademark files (which are handled by copyright not software licenses) and settings (likewise these are not licensed). Almost exactly like Red Hat Linux compared to CentOS. See https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-161792005 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-1...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- nailer 7y ago
  Responding a second time as HN seems to have missed the relevant part from that link: > "When you clone and build from the vscode repo, none of these endpoints are configured in the default product.json. Therefore, you generate a "clean" build, without the Microsoft customizations, which is by default licensed under the MIT license (note, i made this commit to help make this more clear)."

gdsdfe 7y ago

I think this might explain why they made Theia : https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser-ide-3ok0 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser...

cxr 7y ago
If that's so, then they truly fumbled on execution. Open VSX requires GitHub OAuth for login.
- gdsdfe 7y ago
  it requires OAuth, not github's OAuth
  - cxr 7y ago
    If you've successfully logged in with non-Github OAuth, can you substantiate that with steps to reproduce? E.g, 1. Navigate to https://open-vsx.org/ https://open-vsx.org/ 2. [etc…]
    - gdsdfe 7y ago
      Haven't tried it myself but you can always go to the code and do it yourself : I think the confusion here is that https://open-vsx.org/ https://open-vsx.org/ requires github which is normal, they can require whatever they want you can even go in and add something else => https://github.com/eclipse/open-vsx.org https://github.com/eclipse/open-vsx.org or roll your own : https://github.com/eclipse/openvsx https://github.com/eclipse/openvsx
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - cxr 7y ago

bobblywobbles 7y ago

What are the problems with VSCode? I'm all for making alternatives if they are closed or you need to pay, but I believe Microsoft is doing a good service with all the regular and frequent updates to VSCode. Correct me if I missed something.

whatsmyusername 7y ago
It's not not-vscode so someone had to make not-vscode vscode.
- throw_away 7y ago
  Here, I've been using not-eclipse all this time.
pkaye 7y ago
I think they want to allow a non Microsoft branded version they can bundle with their software. So for example if you buy the ARM commercial compilers, this will come as the bundled code editor.
anton_kosyakov 7y ago
VS Code has a clear scope to be smart light-weight editor. It fits to mainstream needs indeed, but not for firms trying to build domain specific IDEs. Theia does not have problems with VS Code. It embraces great tech and UX behind VS Code and makes it available to build custom products with ability to rebrand UI, get full control of developer experience, and so on. There is no competition, but rather collaboration. So far Theia adopters were building own products by porting interesting tech from VS Code and contributing bug and feature requests back. Sometimes even by going and proposing fixes for them in VS Code.

saagarjha 7y ago

> Theia is designed from the ground to run on both Desktop and Cloud > Both the frontend and backend processes have their dependency injection (DI) That’s pretty buzzwordy :/

gigatexal 7y ago

What non OSS things are there to vscode? Is it the controversial telemetry stuff they’re doing that’s causing forks?

snazz 7y ago
The installer and binaries distributed from Microsoft are not OSS.
- cchance 7y ago
  So build it yourself? Like seriously are we really nitpicking over the installer and binaries now which the source is available for the actual product? It really feels like the industry is never happy if it has anything to do with microsoft.
  - tristan957 7y ago
    The extension repository is also not open source.

hirako2000 7y ago

I tend to ignore what the Eclipse foundation is producing because of their poor development of the Eclipse IDE; they do have a point though when they mention true open source. VS Code is excellent, but is backed by a for profit enterprise, the same enterprise that now backs the Atom editor. There are a number concerns pending when our development and infrastructure eco systems are open source but controlled by for profit entities. Or perhaps there is no concern, let's type our code with VS Code, Stash it on Github, attend daily updates and video conference to discuss as a group on Team, and deploy on Azure.

pkaye 7y ago
Just because you use VS Code doesn't mean your have to use Github, Team or Azure.

animalnewbie 7y ago

I prefer QtCreator- it's not written in Electron.

_benj 7y ago
Isn't QtCreator kind of too focused on Qt? I have used it and love it, but I was writing QML, not Python or JS for a web project. Have you been able to use QtCreator for more than C/C++ and Qt?
- animalnewbie 7y ago
  I use it for Rust!

bebop 7y ago

Since no one else has brought this up, I think one of the big drivers behind this project is actually another eclipse project (che): https://www.eclipse.org/che/technology/ https://www.eclipse.org/che/technology/ Che is a cloud ide that is supposed to be easily deployed into a k8s cluster. Che supports authentication and spinning up pods for projects, and other management features. Theia may have been developed to work nicely with Che directly (I am not a developer of either so this is only speculation).

bigredhdl 7y ago
I'm always surprised how little CHE gets talked about. Is there an alternative that has better traction? I tried it a few years ago and conceptually it was really ahead of its time in terms of spinning up a dev environment on the fly. Unfortunately the latest version, now based on k8s, was much more finicky to get setup in a home lab.
sergiotapia 7y ago
terrible name unfortunately

polskibus 7y ago

I think the only way to beat vs code at this point is to implement IDE in a native language without GC. VSCode , eclipse etc can be very sluggish on large-ish projects, slow downs accumulate with code base size growth leading to usability problems, slow autocompletion etc.

jjuel 7y ago
So you mean Sublime Text? (Yes I understand it isn't open source)
- _benj 7y ago
  For some reason I'm able to find plugins for what I need in VSCode but not for Sublime :( I really really like Sublime Text and own a license, but the lack of plugins or outdated one (only available for ST2?) makes it less than optimal for my daily driver
xendke 7y ago
I think part of the reason why VSCode is popular is because of how extensible it is. Also, the fact that it's built around JS makes it accessible to more people which means more extensions for example.
benibela 7y ago
But that is how IDEs used to be. vim, kdevelop, qt creator, texstudio, ...

pseudosavant 7y ago

The title of this post makes as much sense as: - FreeBSD, the open-source alternative to Linux - Baidu, the privacy abusing alternative to Google - Elon Musk, the self-absorbed prick alternative to Steve Jobs

chimen 7y ago

Spent a good amount of time figuring out how to download this thing and test it out. I give up. What takes? Or is it just a browser based IDE?

anton_kosyakov 7y ago
Sorry, to hear it. Theia is an IDE platform and does not target end users but product builders. For end users, we build Gitpod based on Theia to support continious dev environments: https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-next-step-in-devops-4ab7 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-... You can try to open Theia in Gitpod: https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia Alternatively we provide community supported docker images: https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps

didibus 7y ago

* Theia powers Gitpod's continuous development environments. You can try opening Theia in Theia. * Google runs Theia as the editor in the Google Cloud Shell, * Arduino's new Pro IDE is based on Theia , * SAP have replaced their Web IDE with Theia , * Arm's new mbed Studio is based on Theia, and * D-Wave Systems have adopted Gitpod which allows anyone to do quantum computing with Theia Seems it's really focused on running embedded in browser, and also allowing you create custom IDE environments from it more easily.

lobo42 7y ago
Please note that Arms's and Arduino's editors are not running in browsers (yet), but are downloadable desktop applications.

jtdev 7y ago

If it has borrowed any concepts from Eclipse IDE (like workspaces and hidden dirs stuffed with XML)... it’s a hard pass for me.

cardiffspaceman 7y ago
I'm an active user of both Eclipse CDT and VS Code. They both have a thing called "workspaces." VScode's hidden dirs are filled with JSON (so hot right now).
- jtdev 7y ago
  You mean the .vscode dir? Yeah, that typically contains 2 incredibly sparse , readable, and useful files... the same cannot be said for Eclipse workspaces in my experience.

ajay_sibri04 7y ago

People still hate microsoft? I thought we were all supposed to hate google now and they are a contributor of this project.

enesunal 7y ago

Attacking an open-source software to promote another open-source software. You needed to do better dear Eclipse Foundation. This isn't the philosophy behind open-source. edit: Wait. Is this an early April fools' day joke?

number6 7y ago
while vs is technically open source it's not free software. not only in the gnu sense but also the binaries are licensed different as the source code. You have to compile vs yourself to benefit from the licensing of the source code
- oaiey 7y ago
  The whole purpose of "open source" and "free software" is to allow modifications and ownership by the user. Both requires to compile on your own. So I would not call it a burden (as opposed to "benefit") but a consequence of being open source. So we should consider the binaries as a branded favor of Microsoft for the lazy rest of us ;)

benatkin 7y ago

On https://theia-ide.org/ https://theia-ide.org/ it says the shell is based on PhosphorJS. When I follow the link to the repo, it says it's archived. Have they vendored it yet? https://github.com/phosphorjs/phosphor https://github.com/phosphorjs/phosphor

anton_kosyakov 7y ago
Yeah, it came to surprise to us too. We are going to merge PhosphorJS into Theia repo and make it more configurable: https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia/issues/6501 https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia/issues/6501

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dzonga 7y ago

not even a download button, but aye they've released v1.0. Are they mad about VSCode telemetry ? try installing it via git clone, they require an old version of node.

anton_kosyakov 7y ago
Theia does not target end users. It is IDE platform for product builders. Think if you want to build domain specific IDE which inherits VS Code UX. See who is using Theia and why here: https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser-ide-3ok0 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser... For end users, we build Gitpod to provide continious development environment: https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-next-step-in-devops-4ab7 https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-... For instance try to run Theia: https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia After try to build Theia from sources locally.

bamuniz 7y ago

I used Eclipse for Java for several years, but not anymore... If they launched a lighter version, why not? Let's give it a try =P (just change the subject of the thread for a more decent and less appealing pls =P)

iddan 7y ago

VSCode is open source. This is a misleading title

tristan957 7y ago
The Visual Studio Code distribution from Microsoft is not open source. Code-OSS is open source and that is the vscode repository on GitHub. The relationship is very much like Chromium and Chrome.
- oaiey 7y ago
  Just that the out-of-the box Open Source VS Code is modified by roughly 5 configuration options (you guessed, telemetry urls), icons and a EULA before it is packaged by Microsoft. I would not call that closed source. I call that redistributed with pre-configured settings. It is similar to what RedHat is doing to Linux and the GNU user space (if I am not wrong ;)) However, the extension market space, certain debuggers and certain VS Code branded extensions are a different story.

sigzero 7y ago

Bad name for an editor really.

outside1234 7y ago

I mean, do they think we are idiots? Visual Studio Code is clearly open source with an MIT license. https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode EDIT: OH WAIT - I see - they forked at least parts of Visual Studio Code and then open sourced it. In other words -- proving that Visual Studio Code is open source.

tristan957 7y ago
None of the code seems to be a fork Visual Studio Code is indeed not open source. If you grab, the binary from Microsoft it is slightly different than the code on the GitHub repository because Microsoft applies some Microsoft-specific things. The extension repo is closed source as well. It has long been a requested feature for open-source extension repository variants. Code-OSS is open-source however. So no they do not think we are idiots.

siproprio 7y ago

The interface looks like vscode.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

znpy 7y ago

friendly reminder that while visual studio code is open source, the binary that you download from their website is not, and it's full of telemetry (and remember: telemetry ~= spyware). consider using an alternative like eclipse theia or vs codium (https://vscodium.com/ https://vscodium.com/ - binaries built from the open source repositories)

srndh 6y ago

I was hoping Eclipse/Firefox would partner with Sublime Text/NotePad++. There is enough people on electron-based text editor with Atom & VSCode variant. I was hoping a different product needs to grow. Yes, I know ST is closed-source. But as a user, I feel that its starting to hurt ST. I personally feel (not a pro-developer), ST is better than VSCode. ST is a better match for Firefox. I am hoping that the ST developer joins Mozilla. Notepad++ has a eclipse-lite vibe. I was hoping eclipse could help Notepad++ reach linux & mac. But please dont put it in JVM, that is the original sin of Eclipse. We need more alternatives.

pachico 6y ago

I use vscode and I personally love it (I mostly use it for PHP and Go). I read a lot of strong opinions and I'm curious to know how many have actually given Theia a try before complaining about it. :)