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Ryzen 4000 Review

298 points by caseyf7 7y ago

loser777 7y ago
The natural question now is how much the i9-10980HK differs from the 9980HK that the 4800HS seems to trounce handily. Judging by the fact that it's still on some iteration of 14nm(++++++), it looks to be more of the same strategy of aggressive turbo to hopefully compensate for lackluster IPC. Hope to see more high performance AMD laptop design wins as a result!
- MuffinFlavored 7y ago
  > 14nm(++++++) What do you mean by this?
  - jdsully 7y ago
    Intel has been repeatedly tuning their 14nm process and adding a plus at the end each time. It's starting to get a bit ridiculous.
    - wtallis 7y ago
      For reference, Intel's first 14nm mobile processors were introduced from late 2014 through mid 2015. They've done one major microarchitecture update since then, and the rest of their microarchitecture and fab refinements in the intervening years have been minor updates as they're in a holding pattern waiting for their fabs to deliver a 10nm process that is viable for mass production. The first 10nm process was such an abject failure that Intel now prefers to pretend it didn't happen. The second 10nm process produced laptop processors that began shipping last fall, but are still mixed in with 14nm processors that are branded as part of the same generation.
      - api 7y ago
        Apparently a big chunk of those top-bin 10nm chips ended up going to Apple for the new 2020 Air.
        paulmd 7y ago
        Sure, Intel sold some to Apple, but I’ve been seeing 1/3 to 1/2 of the laptops Costco carries with Ice Lake since before thanksgiving. Warehouse stores, not even premium channels. They’re not in nearly the short supply that some people like to imply. AMD is quite late to market with their mobile 7nm products. Their desktop products are far more timely, if their mobile had been launched with the desktop they would have beaten Intel, instead they basically are 6 months late to market.
        dannyw 7y ago
        Late to market, but better performance.
        paulmd 7y ago
        Yes, incrementally better, not drastically, as compared to the 14nm parts. That’s how generational leaps work. Competitors one-up each other, just like Intel one-upped the 1000 series with Coffee Lake. Time to market lost is time you’re giving your competitor to get their next generation ready. Intel is now only 6 months away from their next release, Tiger Lake. We are already starting to see a few benchmarks leak out. I don’t get why people think it’s such a big ask to not release half their lineup 9 months late. For that matter, where are the socketed APUs?
        zrm 7y ago
        It's probably the same answer to both. Demand is still high but TSMC has finite 7nm fab capacity and the APUs have lower margins. What's the hurry to release lower margin APUs if the fabs are still busy making higher margin CPUs?
  - jonplackett 7y ago
    It’s also a reference to Intel’s failure to make 10nm work (their equivalent to AMD’a 7nm) and just endlessly flogging slightly updated 14nm
piinbinary 7y ago
The LTT review [0] also had good things to say about the battery life. This CPU seems very power-efficient when compared to a 9980HK. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqG31V4qtA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqG31V4qtA
- loeg 7y ago
  FWIW, loaded battery life is intrinsically linked to the thermal / cooling aspect of CPU performance discussed in the article. Mechanically, CPUs are just simple resisters converting stored battery energy into heat. Idle battery power is also interesting, and even the older Zen 1 had pretty good reduction in power consumption at idle (C1).
  - baybal2 7y ago
    Intel still best on idle power use because of on package regulator, and still better powergating
    - williadc 7y ago
      Intel dropped FIVR for the Skylake generation[1], though it's back on Ivybridge[2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylake_(microarchitecture)#Features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylake_(microarchitecture)#Fe... [2]: Used to work there, played a minor part in enabling IDC to integrate the FIVR IP.
    - sudosysgen 7y ago
      Sure, but how long does a laptop actually stay on idle and not a sleep state or low power state (doing something)?
bloody-crow 7y ago
It's very promising. Can't wait to see more laptop offers on this chip. The current Asus Zephyrus G14 seems to gamer-y in terms of the design. I'd buy the same hardware in a more mature and grown-up chassis like current Dell XPS 13 in a heartbeat.
- nchelluri 7y ago
  I want this in an XPS 13 too. I just bought an XPS 13 last year, running Ubuntu, and it's very nice, aside from the whine when it's plugged in.
  - chkass 7y ago
    I'd settle for an XPS 13 with 32GB of RAM :( 16GB is the current limit.
    - MatekCopatek 7y ago
      Not with this year's model (XPS 13 9300) - 32 GB is now available.
      - Arelius 7y ago
        Yup, I have it, it's great!
      - slaw 7y ago
        $199 motile m141 laptop - up to 32GB no coil whine and has matte screen.
        ComputerGuru 7y ago
        Very interesting! It has an AMD Ryzen 3 so maybe we can expect an update with an AMD 4000.
        wastedhours 7y ago
        That looks really impressive - anyone know if they offer something similar in the UK? I know Walmart owns some brands here that it might be under (though think they sold some?)
tmpz22 7y ago
An interesting proxy for CPU evolution is seeing the recommendations shift in communities like reddit.com/r/buildapc. Last year many medium to high end builds were choosing intel CPUs, but now most are recommending AMD. The last bastion will be professional gamers and streamers when they upgrade their 9900KS level CPUs - likely when the new 3080 gpus come out. Good on AMD for pushing the competition forward by significant amounts.
- traden209 7y ago
  You still can't beat intel at the high end. Both in terms of heat and performance. If you have a task that doesn't parallelize well, you can't beat intel. Games are traditionally single threaded and hard to parallelize. However: you don't need to be the best, you just need to be at the "agreed upon" high end for game requirements, which is the xbox and ps4 (soon to be next gen). And so, if you're trying to build a "generation proof" gaming PC in a standard sized case, the 3800X is currently your best bet for a new build (or waiting for zen3). If you're trying to do SFF, Intel may be a better choice. Regardless: AMD's competition has dropped the prices in the "enthusiast" segment. My next build will be AMD, simply because I don't need the best of the best, but rather, good enough.
  - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
    From what I have seen, the single threaded tasks are slightly better on intel but even in this linked article the AMD chips are winning slightly in single threaded. And in multi threaded the AMD CPUs absolutely blow away intel by a huge margin at a lower price.
  - ksec 7y ago
    >Games are traditionally single threaded and hard to parallelize. It is not that the Gamers and Prosumers dont know. But they are willing to trade ~10% of Single Thread Performance for Double the Core at a similar or less price point. Sounds like a very reasonable decision to me.
    - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
Niccizero 7y ago
I'm excitedly awaiting for the Ryzen 4000 Thinkpad anouncements, hopefully I can get to upgrade my aging P51. First time I'm exited for a tech launch in a long time.
- solarkraft 7y ago
  I'm still waiting for the 3000-models to become affordable :s
  - lhoff 7y ago
    The now released 4000 Series of mobile CPUs is not the successor to the 3000 Series for Desktop CPUs. The 4000 series mobile is using the same architecture as the 3000 series desktop.
    - solarkraft 7y ago
      Okay. I'm referring to the mobile 3000 series available in the Thinkpad T495.
- mikenew 7y ago
  They've been announced, although the details aren't 100%: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/35805-lenovo-thinkpad-t14-t14s/ https://www.ultrabookreview.com/35805-lenovo-thinkpad-t14-t1...
  - MrUnderhill 7y ago
    Looks like all the new Ryzen Thinkpads announced so far will use the lower power 15W models. I would love for 470p to make a return - a "T14p" with the 4900HS would be pretty sweet.
heelix 7y ago
I'm really excited with the prospect of a a fast, multi core chip that does not throttle on a laptop. That G14 that everyone seems to be doing the initial review with shows really nice single and multicore performance with a small thermal signature. The gaming 'workout' is not terribly dissimilar to what I'd hope to see unplugged doing development. The i9 I've got in my work laptop just cannot handle the watts it tries to consume. I've held off updating my personal laptop waiting for something that is not an 8lb+ brick to allow it to run with a load. Should be a promising Spring/Summer.
- throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
  Why use a laptop if your work appears to befit a desktop? A lot more power and RAM expansion for less cash. > small thermal signature When I were a lad, we used to call that 'warm' :)
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    Usually because desktops can't be moved easily.
    - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
      I hadn't thought of it that way, but aren't there small PCs that have been designed to be portable? Guy I worked with had one and it was tiny. Get one a little less tiny and you have ventilation + expansion (not as much as a desktop but still better than a laptop). Just have a monitor at work & at home, carry the pooter around.
      - _ph_ 7y ago
        It can be done, but most people, who don't work at just one desk prefer the laptop as you can quickly move it to a meeting room etc. When you move the small PC, you not only need to carry keyboard and mouse and have a screen, it also means restarting the machine. A laptop keeps running and has almost everything in one package.
Roritharr 7y ago
I still have not heard an official statement what the Thunderbolt 3 story is for these CPUs. Could we get it? Will we get it? Without this I simply can't buy em as we've invested in TB3 Docks for the past two years and are pretty happy with them.
- dijit 7y ago
  Intel are finally starting to license motherboards on Ryzen (Asrock had one certified in Febuary) so it's not impossible,
- Symmetry 7y ago
  The new Thinkpad T14 is supposed to have a TB3 on both the Intel and AMD versions, at least.
  - chx 7y ago
    That has not been confirmed. There is nothing official on the T14 on the Lenovo site yet except from the press release. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/commercial-notebook/thinkpad/thinkpad-t14-series/c/22TPT14 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/commercial-notebook/thinkpad/th... (and yes that's the right url, try replacing "thinkpad-t14-series" with "x" you will be redirected there)
    - Symmetry 7y ago
      I'm going off of the datasheet reproduced here: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14-Ryzen-4000-version-does-have-RJ45-upgradable-RAM.454869.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14-Ryzen-4000...
      - chx 7y ago
        everybody does that and it's getting really boring fixing this. When the PSREF is out then we can talk until then, that's just a heap of typos. They already published a correction over RJ45 and blablabla i need to type this up four times a week on various social media, people, get a grip, there is ONE certified AMD motherboard with TB3, an extremely expensive Threadripper it is beyond unlikely that it will happen
lmilcin 7y ago
I have been holding out for almost a year already to replace my T440s with a new Ryzen-powered Thinkpad. Hope I won't have to wait for long now.
- thelittleone 7y ago
  Big fan of Thinkpad. My 2017 MBP died (again) a few weeks ago and I can’t get it respired due to travel restrictions. So I took out my old T420 and loaded Linux. Forced to use it for a few days and have to say I like it a LOT. It’s bulkier and the screen is no where near as good. But it has 16GB RAM, the keyboard is amazing, it feels solid and I have USBs. I still occasionally use OSX on a 2010 Mac mini but recognise I’m not missing the Apple ecosystem at all. Quite a liberating feeling as I thought I was fully tied to it.
- bcrosby95 7y ago
  I've been holding out on replacing my XPS 13 with a Thinkpad T series with a Zen 2 processor. I recently bought my wife one and I love the ergonomics of the 14" way better than the 13". Probably my favorite laptop I've ever tried.
  - thelittleone 7y ago
    Which T model did you buy her?
    - bcrosby95 7y ago
      T480. It was on sale for $750 at the time.
- eggsome 7y ago
  Be careful with the E series. They don't officially support Linux anymore and I had to wait 12months for a BIOS update to solve all the issues with my E585 :(
michaelyoshika 7y ago
Not following closely to the CPU industry. What right steps have AMD taken to achieve the recent success (compared with Intel)?
- bgorman 7y ago
  Intel's fabs have stagnated so AMD now has access to fabs as good or better as Intels. In addition, AMD has been iterating on a new micro-architecture for the last few years that is actually competitive with Intel's. From 2011-2015 AMD's Bulldozer based micro-architectures were not competitive, and coupled with being way behind on process nodes was a completely uncompetitive high-end product line.
- Roritharr 7y ago
  Hiring Jim Keller.
  - baybal2 7y ago
    Zen architecture team lead was Mike Clark, engineering lead Suzanne Plummer I am very sure that they didn't hire a man like Jim Keller "just" to do engineering work. In Intel, he is more of a project manager with extraordinary authority, and I believe that was the case for him for the last 10 or so year. He shipped countless triple A hit products, probably more than any other man in the industry. That experience is his real value.
- jayflux 7y ago
  They started from a new clean-sheet design. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_(microarchitecture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_(microarchitecture)
- jakogut 7y ago
  Intel made missteps with their 10nm process, and manufacturing chips in house. Yields for their new process are too low for retail demand. Additionally clock speeds are higher with the more mature 14nm process of Kaby Lake, which is itself a more refined version of Skylake. With low yields, manufacturing is too expensive, and performance isn't much improved, leaving Intel little reason to bring these new chips to market. As a result, they've been refining and refreshing chips since Skylake. Kaby Lake introduced a bump in core count, as a response to AMD's release of their Zen microarchitecture. AMD overcame these challenges in several ways. They're fabless, choosing to partner with semiconductor manufacturers like TSMC rather than manufacturing chips themselves. TSMC's current 7nm process node is one generation ahead of Intel's 14nm node, roughly on par with Intel's 10nm node. Smaller process means more efficient, and often more performant. AMD also created a new architecture using a "chiplet" design and an interconnect (Zen), rather than the older monolithic die used by Intel. This increases yields and simplifies manufacturing, while making chips modular. Chiplets containing a number of cores can be combined into a single package to create various SKUs, targeting different market segments.
uyuioi 7y ago
Come on Apple. Time to move to AMD!
- lukevp 7y ago
  Apple's most likely going to move to custom ARM processors for a lot of their laptops.
  - flatiron 7y ago
    Catalina dropping 32 bit support screams to me the next MacOS will support ARM with a Rosetta like amd64 translation layer.
    - millstone 7y ago
      Maybe not Rosetta-like as Apple now controls the chip design? Perhaps Nvidia Denver style.
      - flatiron 7y ago
        i didn't know about that. just read the wikipedia article and nvidia wanted to support x86 but intel wouldn't let them use their patents. i would be SUPER surprised if that wasn't the same with Apple.
- wyldfire 7y ago
  If you believe the rumors, it sounds like they're moving to their own CPU designs. Maybe the Mac Pro would stay x86_64 though?
- dannyw 7y ago
  Apple is ruthless with their suppliers. I imagine Intel is selling chips for AMD-level pricing to Apple.
  - Insanity 7y ago
    Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad deal. I mean, disregarding the current situation (covid), I'm pretty sure that Apple can argue from a guaranteed number of sales pov.
jfb 7y ago
PC World is still a going concern?
- johnvanommen 7y ago
  PC Magazine employed John Dvorak up until 2018! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18044106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18044106
  - jfb 7y ago
    How about that.
chx 7y ago
This is a dishonest review. The numbers are fine but the article surrounding it is dishonest. He is often repeating claims on weight but he compares 2070 (115W) and 2080 (150W) GPU laptops to a 2060 Max Q (65W) laptop. Mind you, there are no other 2060 Max Q laptops yet but there are 2060 laptops, that would've been much closer.
- jandrese 7y ago
  The article almost never stops mentioning that it's competing quite well against laptops that are 50% or 100% heavier. I don't think it is dishonest. They include some similar size laptops in the graphs, but the results aren't as interesting because it is such a one sided result. The article is trying to sell you on a laptop that performs like a bulky heavy gaming laptop but travels like a mid range spreadsheet pusher.
  - chx 7y ago
    It's competing well on CPU benchmarks. The moment it benches a game https://images.idgesg.net/images/article/2020/03/asus_rog_zephyrus_g14_rotr_dx11_19x10_very_high-100836713-orig.jpg https://images.idgesg.net/images/article/2020/03/asus_rog_ze... the picture becomes more nuanced.
    - jdsully 7y ago
      That's comparing a GTX 2060 to a 2080 in the Intel laptops. Now if you care about gaming it's fair to point out there aren't any GTX 2080 laptops with AMD being reviewed, but it's not an indication of the performance it could have with a full spec GPU. Hopefully we should see one in the next few weeks.
      - chx 7y ago
        You were saying "The article is trying to sell you on a laptop that performs like a bulky heavy gaming laptop but travels like a mid range spreadsheet pusher." but i was saying it does not perform like a bulky heavy gaming laptop because it has an inferior GPU compared to those. I am sure once it's on a more equal footing there will be some small gains but nothign earth shattering, alas.
mjevans 7y ago
I would really like to see Laptop Reviews sort by price first, then logical maximums within a given narrow price range. It would make sense to group by Price, then key secondary features like: Weight, Screen Quality, Raw performance (Mixed current year games score, Disk Bound, CPU bound, GPU bound) when plugged in, maximum battery time (default out of box experience).
- zepearl 7y ago
  I'm not saying that you're wrong, but e.g. im my case the priorities are different (screen quality, keyboard, battery, touchpad/clickpad/trackpoint, weight, etc... and CPU&GPU performance would be last but potentially weighted against watt consumption) => can become complicated => I don't think that a "universal" method of getting the "ultimate" sorted list is feasible => I'd definitely love a site that would allow to set my own priorities and get as result the "perfect" laptop/notebook that matches at most the expectations/priorities :) Some retailers have such sites, but maybe not reviewer-sites? (I do use that https://www.notebookcheck.net https://www.notebookcheck.net whenever I want to buy something, but their selection criteria is limited) In my case price has never been a direct primary selection criteria - I always bought the gadget that met all my minimum requirements but which didn't exceed the budget that I had available.
  - mjevans 7y ago
    For me it's about what works the least, and 'high price' is usually the main consideration since I __rarely use__ the laptop in question. My use case for a laptop is a couple times a year when I'm at a tech or similar convention for a weekend, or very very light use when visiting a relative's house for an hour or two. I agree that the screen and keyboard quality are also factors that veto a laptop; but those are much more subjective and difficult to actually rank. I think that might go in to an 'editors choice' within a given price point. Then you'd compare the 2-4 that fit within your budget needs.
  - tracker1 7y ago
    Even then... keyboard and touchpad are still really subjective, and to some extent the screen is as well.
Causality1 7y ago
I'm glad to see AMD working on its single core IPC performance. The only CPU-bound workload I have as a user are game emulators, for which multicore performance is nearly irrelevant.
andy_ppp 7y ago
Anyone got a list of laptops with this in, I'm due an upgrade and would like a 4k ish screen. Don't really care about gaming at all, would just like everything to be very fast. Battery life on these parts really shocked me. At least as good as Intel for far better performance!
Zenst 7y ago
My favorite review so far has to be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aLH0Q6CZF4&t=0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aLH0Q6CZF4&t=0s "Now Intel is in (even more) Trouble - AMD RYZEN 4000 Mobile Review (ASUS ROG Zephyrus G14)" by der8auer
- eBombzor 7y ago
  I liked how he showed the improvements from replacing the default TIM with a liquid based TIM. I wonder if you could get the same improvement from using Thermal Grizzly. I know most people won't want to replace TIM every month for liquid metal, or be comfortable rubbing nail polish on the circuits.
  - Zenst 7y ago
    I'd imagine GamersNexus on YT would be all over that one as they are sponsored by them. However, Steve tends to be down the list when it comes to getting new toys to play with. Yes, replacing the LLM every few months, would be serious level of dedication IMHO and not sure I'm aware of anybody would go to that effort - however it was good to see what was possible. Still, nice to see that they did use thermal paste and not pads in the production, though we don't know what paste they used. If that was known then some crude gestimations could be extrapolated. They did however put some attention to that cooling system and was very interesting in the review how the fan blades are varying length in an effort to reduce fan noise - I'd never considered that or been aware of that before and made sense as well as being kinda neat attention to detail thinking. Me personally, I'd not want to do any of that until warranty expired and to eek out more life in that puppy. Though, as I'm rockin a Core2Duo, you kinda feel my budget is never going to see this. Still nice to virtual experience it. Yes the whole nail polish, kinda neat hack way of doing things and not aware of any downsides with that - beyond warranty, though at least you wouldn't have to replace that periodically compared to LM.
justlexi93 7y ago
The Ryzen 4000 H-Series processors are seemingly shaping up to be excellent options for gamers and creators then, although Intel may well trump them when it finally launches its 10th Generation H-Series chips. We’ll be sure to update this article as soon as we’ve had the chance to test the laptop CPUs ourselves.
p1necone 7y ago
Once again I see "Ryzen 4000 Review" and once again I'm disappointed to find out that it's actually a review of the 4000 series laptop processors. Can we change the title to reflect that? They're not the same - laptop 4000 is the same architecture as the desktop 3000 cpus (that came out last year) afaik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2).
- alecmg 7y ago
  You're not going to see Zen 3 until Q4 earliest
noipv4 7y ago
One (biased?) metric of performance and efficiency of modern cpu is the Random X algorithm used in mining cryptocurrency like Monero. It is designed to use all the cpu subsystems including memory controller. The top CPUs by far for RandomX are AMD ryzen 3000 series both in terms of performance as well as efficiency. https://monerobenchmarks.info/ https://monerobenchmarks.info/
djsumdog 7y ago
I was looking forward to other laptops in the 4000 series, but I guess with the current world situation, those will probably be pushed back to fall releases. I'd like to see one of these things with Ryzen 4000 + amdgpu as a Linux laptop.
- tracker1 7y ago
  Agreed.. would love to see some Ryzen 4000 options from System 76 and Dell.
DeathArrow 7y ago
I don't get why AMD used 3000 naming for desktop Zen 2 CPUs and 4000 for mobile CPUs. It is a bit misleading. When I researched some laptops and saw trhey had Ryzen 7 3700U I wronly presumed they are using Zen 2 CPUs, but I've found out that 3000 series mobile CPUs are using Zen+.
- Out_of_Characte 7y ago
  Although it seems confusing it actually makes sense from a business perspective, The Mobile chips are always designed AFTER the general cpu design with laptop graphics, different thermals and a tighter market (read, older, more mature process). That's why the technology is behind a few months compared to server/desktop. But its still AMD's "newest" chip they can produce. Therefore its better to create a definitive line for the customer that the 4000 series is simply the most up-to-date chip in any market and lineup to avoid confusion.
  - tracker1 7y ago
    That said, it would be nice to see a generation of fractional numbers to just re-align... 4x50H/U for the refresh, then next generation, just wait. It's far more about marketing... 4000 is higher than 3000, but you'd have to know there are no 4000 desktop CPUs when shopping, so it still creates confusion.
torgian 7y ago
Cool to see a mobile Ryzen chip performing well, but there was nothing mentioned about thermals in all their tests. That’s more concerning to me in a lighter laptop than the “muscle-books”

298 points by caseyf7 7y ago

The natural question now is how much the i9-10980HK differs from the 9980HK that the 4800HS seems to trounce handily. Judging by the fact that it's still on some iteration of 14nm(++++++), it looks to be more of the same strategy of aggressive turbo to hopefully compensate for lackluster IPC. Hope to see more high performance AMD laptop design wins as a result!

MuffinFlavored 7y ago
> 14nm(++++++) What do you mean by this?
- jdsully 7y ago
  Intel has been repeatedly tuning their 14nm process and adding a plus at the end each time. It's starting to get a bit ridiculous.
  - wtallis 7y ago
    For reference, Intel's first 14nm mobile processors were introduced from late 2014 through mid 2015. They've done one major microarchitecture update since then, and the rest of their microarchitecture and fab refinements in the intervening years have been minor updates as they're in a holding pattern waiting for their fabs to deliver a 10nm process that is viable for mass production. The first 10nm process was such an abject failure that Intel now prefers to pretend it didn't happen. The second 10nm process produced laptop processors that began shipping last fall, but are still mixed in with 14nm processors that are branded as part of the same generation.
    - api 7y ago
      Apparently a big chunk of those top-bin 10nm chips ended up going to Apple for the new 2020 Air.
      - paulmd 7y ago
        Sure, Intel sold some to Apple, but I’ve been seeing 1/3 to 1/2 of the laptops Costco carries with Ice Lake since before thanksgiving. Warehouse stores, not even premium channels. They’re not in nearly the short supply that some people like to imply. AMD is quite late to market with their mobile 7nm products. Their desktop products are far more timely, if their mobile had been launched with the desktop they would have beaten Intel, instead they basically are 6 months late to market.
        dannyw 7y ago
        Late to market, but better performance.
        paulmd 7y ago
        Yes, incrementally better, not drastically, as compared to the 14nm parts. That’s how generational leaps work. Competitors one-up each other, just like Intel one-upped the 1000 series with Coffee Lake. Time to market lost is time you’re giving your competitor to get their next generation ready. Intel is now only 6 months away from their next release, Tiger Lake. We are already starting to see a few benchmarks leak out. I don’t get why people think it’s such a big ask to not release half their lineup 9 months late. For that matter, where are the socketed APUs?
        zrm 7y ago
        It's probably the same answer to both. Demand is still high but TSMC has finite 7nm fab capacity and the APUs have lower margins. What's the hurry to release lower margin APUs if the fabs are still busy making higher margin CPUs?
- jonplackett 7y ago
  It’s also a reference to Intel’s failure to make 10nm work (their equivalent to AMD’a 7nm) and just endlessly flogging slightly updated 14nm

piinbinary 7y ago

The LTT review [0] also had good things to say about the battery life. This CPU seems very power-efficient when compared to a 9980HK. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqG31V4qtA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYqG31V4qtA

loeg 7y ago
FWIW, loaded battery life is intrinsically linked to the thermal / cooling aspect of CPU performance discussed in the article. Mechanically, CPUs are just simple resisters converting stored battery energy into heat. Idle battery power is also interesting, and even the older Zen 1 had pretty good reduction in power consumption at idle (C1).
- baybal2 7y ago
  Intel still best on idle power use because of on package regulator, and still better powergating
  - williadc 7y ago
    Intel dropped FIVR for the Skylake generation[1], though it's back on Ivybridge[2]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylake_(microarchitecture)#Features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylake_(microarchitecture)#Fe... [2]: Used to work there, played a minor part in enabling IDC to integrate the FIVR IP.
  - sudosysgen 7y ago
    Sure, but how long does a laptop actually stay on idle and not a sleep state or low power state (doing something)?

bloody-crow 7y ago

It's very promising. Can't wait to see more laptop offers on this chip. The current Asus Zephyrus G14 seems to gamer-y in terms of the design. I'd buy the same hardware in a more mature and grown-up chassis like current Dell XPS 13 in a heartbeat.

nchelluri 7y ago
I want this in an XPS 13 too. I just bought an XPS 13 last year, running Ubuntu, and it's very nice, aside from the whine when it's plugged in.
- chkass 7y ago
  I'd settle for an XPS 13 with 32GB of RAM :( 16GB is the current limit.
  - MatekCopatek 7y ago
    Not with this year's model (XPS 13 9300) - 32 GB is now available.
    - Arelius 7y ago
      Yup, I have it, it's great!
    - slaw 7y ago
      $199 motile m141 laptop - up to 32GB no coil whine and has matte screen.
      - ComputerGuru 7y ago
        Very interesting! It has an AMD Ryzen 3 so maybe we can expect an update with an AMD 4000.
      - wastedhours 7y ago
        That looks really impressive - anyone know if they offer something similar in the UK? I know Walmart owns some brands here that it might be under (though think they sold some?)

tmpz22 7y ago

An interesting proxy for CPU evolution is seeing the recommendations shift in communities like reddit.com/r/buildapc. Last year many medium to high end builds were choosing intel CPUs, but now most are recommending AMD. The last bastion will be professional gamers and streamers when they upgrade their 9900KS level CPUs - likely when the new 3080 gpus come out. Good on AMD for pushing the competition forward by significant amounts.

traden209 7y ago
You still can't beat intel at the high end. Both in terms of heat and performance. If you have a task that doesn't parallelize well, you can't beat intel. Games are traditionally single threaded and hard to parallelize. However: you don't need to be the best, you just need to be at the "agreed upon" high end for game requirements, which is the xbox and ps4 (soon to be next gen). And so, if you're trying to build a "generation proof" gaming PC in a standard sized case, the 3800X is currently your best bet for a new build (or waiting for zen3). If you're trying to do SFF, Intel may be a better choice. Regardless: AMD's competition has dropped the prices in the "enthusiast" segment. My next build will be AMD, simply because I don't need the best of the best, but rather, good enough.
- Polylactic_acid 7y ago
  From what I have seen, the single threaded tasks are slightly better on intel but even in this linked article the AMD chips are winning slightly in single threaded. And in multi threaded the AMD CPUs absolutely blow away intel by a huge margin at a lower price.
- ksec 7y ago
  >Games are traditionally single threaded and hard to parallelize. It is not that the Gamers and Prosumers dont know. But they are willing to trade ~10% of Single Thread Performance for Double the Core at a similar or less price point. Sounds like a very reasonable decision to me.
  - Polylactic_acid 7y ago

Niccizero 7y ago

I'm excitedly awaiting for the Ryzen 4000 Thinkpad anouncements, hopefully I can get to upgrade my aging P51. First time I'm exited for a tech launch in a long time.

solarkraft 7y ago
I'm still waiting for the 3000-models to become affordable :s
- lhoff 7y ago
  The now released 4000 Series of mobile CPUs is not the successor to the 3000 Series for Desktop CPUs. The 4000 series mobile is using the same architecture as the 3000 series desktop.
  - solarkraft 7y ago
    Okay. I'm referring to the mobile 3000 series available in the Thinkpad T495.
mikenew 7y ago
They've been announced, although the details aren't 100%: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/35805-lenovo-thinkpad-t14-t14s/ https://www.ultrabookreview.com/35805-lenovo-thinkpad-t14-t1...
- MrUnderhill 7y ago
  Looks like all the new Ryzen Thinkpads announced so far will use the lower power 15W models. I would love for 470p to make a return - a "T14p" with the 4900HS would be pretty sweet.

heelix 7y ago

I'm really excited with the prospect of a a fast, multi core chip that does not throttle on a laptop. That G14 that everyone seems to be doing the initial review with shows really nice single and multicore performance with a small thermal signature. The gaming 'workout' is not terribly dissimilar to what I'd hope to see unplugged doing development. The i9 I've got in my work laptop just cannot handle the watts it tries to consume. I've held off updating my personal laptop waiting for something that is not an 8lb+ brick to allow it to run with a load. Should be a promising Spring/Summer.

throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
Why use a laptop if your work appears to befit a desktop? A lot more power and RAM expansion for less cash. > small thermal signature When I were a lad, we used to call that 'warm' :)
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Usually because desktops can't be moved easily.
  - throwaway_pdp09 7y ago
    I hadn't thought of it that way, but aren't there small PCs that have been designed to be portable? Guy I worked with had one and it was tiny. Get one a little less tiny and you have ventilation + expansion (not as much as a desktop but still better than a laptop). Just have a monitor at work & at home, carry the pooter around.
    - _ph_ 7y ago
      It can be done, but most people, who don't work at just one desk prefer the laptop as you can quickly move it to a meeting room etc. When you move the small PC, you not only need to carry keyboard and mouse and have a screen, it also means restarting the machine. A laptop keeps running and has almost everything in one package.

Roritharr 7y ago

I still have not heard an official statement what the Thunderbolt 3 story is for these CPUs. Could we get it? Will we get it? Without this I simply can't buy em as we've invested in TB3 Docks for the past two years and are pretty happy with them.

dijit 7y ago
Intel are finally starting to license motherboards on Ryzen (Asrock had one certified in Febuary) so it's not impossible,
Symmetry 7y ago
The new Thinkpad T14 is supposed to have a TB3 on both the Intel and AMD versions, at least.
- chx 7y ago
  That has not been confirmed. There is nothing official on the T14 on the Lenovo site yet except from the press release. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/commercial-notebook/thinkpad/thinkpad-t14-series/c/22TPT14 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/commercial-notebook/thinkpad/th... (and yes that's the right url, try replacing "thinkpad-t14-series" with "x" you will be redirected there)
  - Symmetry 7y ago
    I'm going off of the datasheet reproduced here: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14-Ryzen-4000-version-does-have-RJ45-upgradable-RAM.454869.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T14-Ryzen-4000...
    - chx 7y ago
      everybody does that and it's getting really boring fixing this. When the PSREF is out then we can talk until then, that's just a heap of typos. They already published a correction over RJ45 and blablabla i need to type this up four times a week on various social media, people, get a grip, there is ONE certified AMD motherboard with TB3, an extremely expensive Threadripper it is beyond unlikely that it will happen

lmilcin 7y ago

I have been holding out for almost a year already to replace my T440s with a new Ryzen-powered Thinkpad. Hope I won't have to wait for long now.

thelittleone 7y ago
Big fan of Thinkpad. My 2017 MBP died (again) a few weeks ago and I can’t get it respired due to travel restrictions. So I took out my old T420 and loaded Linux. Forced to use it for a few days and have to say I like it a LOT. It’s bulkier and the screen is no where near as good. But it has 16GB RAM, the keyboard is amazing, it feels solid and I have USBs. I still occasionally use OSX on a 2010 Mac mini but recognise I’m not missing the Apple ecosystem at all. Quite a liberating feeling as I thought I was fully tied to it.
bcrosby95 7y ago
I've been holding out on replacing my XPS 13 with a Thinkpad T series with a Zen 2 processor. I recently bought my wife one and I love the ergonomics of the 14" way better than the 13". Probably my favorite laptop I've ever tried.
- thelittleone 7y ago
  Which T model did you buy her?
  - bcrosby95 7y ago
    T480. It was on sale for $750 at the time.
eggsome 7y ago
Be careful with the E series. They don't officially support Linux anymore and I had to wait 12months for a BIOS update to solve all the issues with my E585 :(

michaelyoshika 7y ago

Not following closely to the CPU industry. What right steps have AMD taken to achieve the recent success (compared with Intel)?

bgorman 7y ago
Intel's fabs have stagnated so AMD now has access to fabs as good or better as Intels. In addition, AMD has been iterating on a new micro-architecture for the last few years that is actually competitive with Intel's. From 2011-2015 AMD's Bulldozer based micro-architectures were not competitive, and coupled with being way behind on process nodes was a completely uncompetitive high-end product line.
Roritharr 7y ago
Hiring Jim Keller.
- baybal2 7y ago
  Zen architecture team lead was Mike Clark, engineering lead Suzanne Plummer I am very sure that they didn't hire a man like Jim Keller "just" to do engineering work. In Intel, he is more of a project manager with extraordinary authority, and I believe that was the case for him for the last 10 or so year. He shipped countless triple A hit products, probably more than any other man in the industry. That experience is his real value.
jayflux 7y ago
They started from a new clean-sheet design. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_(microarchitecture) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_(microarchitecture)
jakogut 7y ago
Intel made missteps with their 10nm process, and manufacturing chips in house. Yields for their new process are too low for retail demand. Additionally clock speeds are higher with the more mature 14nm process of Kaby Lake, which is itself a more refined version of Skylake. With low yields, manufacturing is too expensive, and performance isn't much improved, leaving Intel little reason to bring these new chips to market. As a result, they've been refining and refreshing chips since Skylake. Kaby Lake introduced a bump in core count, as a response to AMD's release of their Zen microarchitecture. AMD overcame these challenges in several ways. They're fabless, choosing to partner with semiconductor manufacturers like TSMC rather than manufacturing chips themselves. TSMC's current 7nm process node is one generation ahead of Intel's 14nm node, roughly on par with Intel's 10nm node. Smaller process means more efficient, and often more performant. AMD also created a new architecture using a "chiplet" design and an interconnect (Zen), rather than the older monolithic die used by Intel. This increases yields and simplifies manufacturing, while making chips modular. Chiplets containing a number of cores can be combined into a single package to create various SKUs, targeting different market segments.

uyuioi 7y ago

Come on Apple. Time to move to AMD!

lukevp 7y ago
Apple's most likely going to move to custom ARM processors for a lot of their laptops.
- flatiron 7y ago
  Catalina dropping 32 bit support screams to me the next MacOS will support ARM with a Rosetta like amd64 translation layer.
  - millstone 7y ago
    Maybe not Rosetta-like as Apple now controls the chip design? Perhaps Nvidia Denver style.
    - flatiron 7y ago
      i didn't know about that. just read the wikipedia article and nvidia wanted to support x86 but intel wouldn't let them use their patents. i would be SUPER surprised if that wasn't the same with Apple.
wyldfire 7y ago
If you believe the rumors, it sounds like they're moving to their own CPU designs. Maybe the Mac Pro would stay x86_64 though?
dannyw 7y ago
Apple is ruthless with their suppliers. I imagine Intel is selling chips for AMD-level pricing to Apple.
- Insanity 7y ago
  Which wouldn't necessarily be a bad deal. I mean, disregarding the current situation (covid), I'm pretty sure that Apple can argue from a guaranteed number of sales pov.

jfb 7y ago

PC World is still a going concern?

johnvanommen 7y ago
PC Magazine employed John Dvorak up until 2018! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18044106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18044106
- jfb 7y ago
  How about that.

chx 7y ago

This is a dishonest review. The numbers are fine but the article surrounding it is dishonest. He is often repeating claims on weight but he compares 2070 (115W) and 2080 (150W) GPU laptops to a 2060 Max Q (65W) laptop. Mind you, there are no other 2060 Max Q laptops yet but there are 2060 laptops, that would've been much closer.

jandrese 7y ago
The article almost never stops mentioning that it's competing quite well against laptops that are 50% or 100% heavier. I don't think it is dishonest. They include some similar size laptops in the graphs, but the results aren't as interesting because it is such a one sided result. The article is trying to sell you on a laptop that performs like a bulky heavy gaming laptop but travels like a mid range spreadsheet pusher.
- chx 7y ago
  It's competing well on CPU benchmarks. The moment it benches a game https://images.idgesg.net/images/article/2020/03/asus_rog_zephyrus_g14_rotr_dx11_19x10_very_high-100836713-orig.jpg https://images.idgesg.net/images/article/2020/03/asus_rog_ze... the picture becomes more nuanced.
  - jdsully 7y ago
    That's comparing a GTX 2060 to a 2080 in the Intel laptops. Now if you care about gaming it's fair to point out there aren't any GTX 2080 laptops with AMD being reviewed, but it's not an indication of the performance it could have with a full spec GPU. Hopefully we should see one in the next few weeks.
    - chx 7y ago
      You were saying "The article is trying to sell you on a laptop that performs like a bulky heavy gaming laptop but travels like a mid range spreadsheet pusher." but i was saying it does not perform like a bulky heavy gaming laptop because it has an inferior GPU compared to those. I am sure once it's on a more equal footing there will be some small gains but nothign earth shattering, alas.

mjevans 7y ago

I would really like to see Laptop Reviews sort by price first, then logical maximums within a given narrow price range. It would make sense to group by Price, then key secondary features like: Weight, Screen Quality, Raw performance (Mixed current year games score, Disk Bound, CPU bound, GPU bound) when plugged in, maximum battery time (default out of box experience).

zepearl 7y ago
I'm not saying that you're wrong, but e.g. im my case the priorities are different (screen quality, keyboard, battery, touchpad/clickpad/trackpoint, weight, etc... and CPU&GPU performance would be last but potentially weighted against watt consumption) => can become complicated => I don't think that a "universal" method of getting the "ultimate" sorted list is feasible => I'd definitely love a site that would allow to set my own priorities and get as result the "perfect" laptop/notebook that matches at most the expectations/priorities :) Some retailers have such sites, but maybe not reviewer-sites? (I do use that https://www.notebookcheck.net https://www.notebookcheck.net whenever I want to buy something, but their selection criteria is limited) In my case price has never been a direct primary selection criteria - I always bought the gadget that met all my minimum requirements but which didn't exceed the budget that I had available.
- mjevans 7y ago
  For me it's about what works the least, and 'high price' is usually the main consideration since I __rarely use__ the laptop in question. My use case for a laptop is a couple times a year when I'm at a tech or similar convention for a weekend, or very very light use when visiting a relative's house for an hour or two. I agree that the screen and keyboard quality are also factors that veto a laptop; but those are much more subjective and difficult to actually rank. I think that might go in to an 'editors choice' within a given price point. Then you'd compare the 2-4 that fit within your budget needs.
- tracker1 7y ago
  Even then... keyboard and touchpad are still really subjective, and to some extent the screen is as well.

Causality1 7y ago

I'm glad to see AMD working on its single core IPC performance. The only CPU-bound workload I have as a user are game emulators, for which multicore performance is nearly irrelevant.

andy_ppp 7y ago

Anyone got a list of laptops with this in, I'm due an upgrade and would like a 4k ish screen. Don't really care about gaming at all, would just like everything to be very fast. Battery life on these parts really shocked me. At least as good as Intel for far better performance!

Zenst 7y ago

My favorite review so far has to be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aLH0Q6CZF4&t=0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aLH0Q6CZF4&t=0s "Now Intel is in (even more) Trouble - AMD RYZEN 4000 Mobile Review (ASUS ROG Zephyrus G14)" by der8auer

eBombzor 7y ago
I liked how he showed the improvements from replacing the default TIM with a liquid based TIM. I wonder if you could get the same improvement from using Thermal Grizzly. I know most people won't want to replace TIM every month for liquid metal, or be comfortable rubbing nail polish on the circuits.
- Zenst 7y ago
  I'd imagine GamersNexus on YT would be all over that one as they are sponsored by them. However, Steve tends to be down the list when it comes to getting new toys to play with. Yes, replacing the LLM every few months, would be serious level of dedication IMHO and not sure I'm aware of anybody would go to that effort - however it was good to see what was possible. Still, nice to see that they did use thermal paste and not pads in the production, though we don't know what paste they used. If that was known then some crude gestimations could be extrapolated. They did however put some attention to that cooling system and was very interesting in the review how the fan blades are varying length in an effort to reduce fan noise - I'd never considered that or been aware of that before and made sense as well as being kinda neat attention to detail thinking. Me personally, I'd not want to do any of that until warranty expired and to eek out more life in that puppy. Though, as I'm rockin a Core2Duo, you kinda feel my budget is never going to see this. Still nice to virtual experience it. Yes the whole nail polish, kinda neat hack way of doing things and not aware of any downsides with that - beyond warranty, though at least you wouldn't have to replace that periodically compared to LM.

justlexi93 7y ago

The Ryzen 4000 H-Series processors are seemingly shaping up to be excellent options for gamers and creators then, although Intel may well trump them when it finally launches its 10th Generation H-Series chips. We’ll be sure to update this article as soon as we’ve had the chance to test the laptop CPUs ourselves.

p1necone 7y ago

Once again I see "Ryzen 4000 Review" and once again I'm disappointed to find out that it's actually a review of the 4000 series laptop processors. Can we change the title to reflect that? They're not the same - laptop 4000 is the same architecture as the desktop 3000 cpus (that came out last year) afaik (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2).

alecmg 7y ago
You're not going to see Zen 3 until Q4 earliest

noipv4 7y ago

One (biased?) metric of performance and efficiency of modern cpu is the Random X algorithm used in mining cryptocurrency like Monero. It is designed to use all the cpu subsystems including memory controller. The top CPUs by far for RandomX are AMD ryzen 3000 series both in terms of performance as well as efficiency. https://monerobenchmarks.info/ https://monerobenchmarks.info/

djsumdog 7y ago

I was looking forward to other laptops in the 4000 series, but I guess with the current world situation, those will probably be pushed back to fall releases. I'd like to see one of these things with Ryzen 4000 + amdgpu as a Linux laptop.

tracker1 7y ago
Agreed.. would love to see some Ryzen 4000 options from System 76 and Dell.

DeathArrow 7y ago

I don't get why AMD used 3000 naming for desktop Zen 2 CPUs and 4000 for mobile CPUs. It is a bit misleading. When I researched some laptops and saw trhey had Ryzen 7 3700U I wronly presumed they are using Zen 2 CPUs, but I've found out that 3000 series mobile CPUs are using Zen+.

Out_of_Characte 7y ago
Although it seems confusing it actually makes sense from a business perspective, The Mobile chips are always designed AFTER the general cpu design with laptop graphics, different thermals and a tighter market (read, older, more mature process). That's why the technology is behind a few months compared to server/desktop. But its still AMD's "newest" chip they can produce. Therefore its better to create a definitive line for the customer that the 4000 series is simply the most up-to-date chip in any market and lineup to avoid confusion.
- tracker1 7y ago
  That said, it would be nice to see a generation of fractional numbers to just re-align... 4x50H/U for the refresh, then next generation, just wait. It's far more about marketing... 4000 is higher than 3000, but you'd have to know there are no 4000 desktop CPUs when shopping, so it still creates confusion.

torgian 7y ago

Cool to see a mobile Ryzen chip performing well, but there was nothing mentioned about thermals in all their tests. That’s more concerning to me in a lighter laptop than the “muscle-books”