9 ms·

Scientists identify microbe that could help degrade polyurethane-based plastics

174 points by dnetesn 7y ago

ilitirit 7y ago
Have there been studies about the dangers of these types of microbes spreading out into the "wild"?
- funklute 7y ago
  The article talks about a microbe that already exists in the wild.
  - ilitirit 7y ago
    I'm not referring to this article - I'm referring to the general case of plastic-eating microbes. Plastic eating organisms are not new. Even certain types of mealworms will eat styrofoam... Articles like these are published several times a year, but I don't think I've seen any studies on the potential impact. This article mentions it, but there are no accompanying references. http://theconversation.com/how-plastic-eating-bacteria-actually-work-a-chemist-explains-95233 http://theconversation.com/how-plastic-eating-bacteria-actua...
    - imtringued 7y ago
      They are probably as dangerous as silverfish to your book collection.
- Kalium 7y ago
  As a lay person, I currently get the distinct impression that polymer-digesting microbes are not currently considered dangerous, with the current impacts being negligible. What kind of dangers and impacts would you like to see studied?
  - ilitirit 7y ago
    > I currently get the distinct impression that polymer-digesting microbes are not currently considered dangerous, with the current impacts being negligible. Well, you've just answered it. I would like to know the scientific rationale for this or an opposing belief. I currently have no opinion on the matter because I haven't read any material to think about in any way other than "these things exist".
droffel 7y ago
Is anyone else concerned about the effects this could have if it managed to get out of containment and into the wild? A self-replicating bacteria that eats plastics sounds like a potentially catastrophic event, considering how much we use them in day to day life.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Yup. The whole reason we use plastic for everything is because it's cheap and mostly inert (i.e. doesn't break down in the environment). If plastic starts rotting we are going to be in for a really bad time. It's difficult to even imagine the cost of all the damage. Seems like we're a decently far way off from that point though.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    It pains me to think about all the plastic items I’ve bought over the years that weren’t up to the task; degraded in the sun to the point of failure; or otherwise ended up in landfill. Ideally any bacteria, or other microbes, would only breakdown plastics under certain conditions, probably in some kind of bioreactor.
- funklute 7y ago
  If you bothered to actually read the article, you'd see that this is a microbe that already exists in the wild.
  - droffel 7y ago
    I imagine the plan is to engineer it to increase its potency. It's clearly not at a dangerous/critical point in its current form.
    - dmos62 7y ago
      Extremely rapidly degrading plastics would still be a better situation than extremely slowly degrading plastics.
melicerte 7y ago
How is this different from the products currently developed by companies like Carbios[1] ? I'm a totally ignorant in physics and chemistry (except from what I've studied at school) so excuse my genuine question. [1] https://carbios.fr/en/ https://carbios.fr/en/
- Ygg2 7y ago
  Carbios looks like a product. This is essentially a microorganism that feeds on plastics.
  - addHocker 7y ago
    Thats gonna be a hard to swallow pill for a lot of sea wildlife.
  - melicerte 7y ago
    So this is the same as what is talked about in the post?
gadders 7y ago
There are also caterpillars that eat plastic: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-017-00593-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-017-00593-y
rseed42 7y ago
Guess they haven't read some science fiction classics :) Mutant 59 The Plastic Eater Book by Gerry Davis and Kit Pedler
grandinj 7y ago
These microbes are surprisingly hard to scale up i.e. to make them work on large amounts of product at a time. (My wife did research on such bugs for a while). All sorts of things start happening once you have a lot of them, and the process becomes incredibly tricky to keep going.
- dwnvoted2hell 7y ago
  So you breed them in an environment interspersed with other things? There seem to be at least 5 organisms that do some level of plastic digestion.
- lolive 7y ago
  Do they get fat and lazy? [Maybe we should invent Netflix for microbes, then]
  - grandinj 7y ago
    (Paraphrasing because of my limited understanding of what my wife did) The biological pathway that makes them eat plastic is pretty card to keep activated. It's not a very profitable pathway, so the bugs tend to try eating other stuff if there is even a little available, or they are even a little outside the optimal range for eating plastic.
    - highfrequency 7y ago
      Interesting stuff, would love to hear more intuition about why this is difficult. Is it just that we haven't found an economical pathway for metabolizing plastics, or is there a fundamental reason why one should not exist? Hydrocarbons have an energy density 2-3x higher than glucose, so naively it seems like there should be a profitable metabolic pathway!
      - zinclozenge 7y ago
        Hydrocarbons are extremely stable, which means it requires a large energy input to break them up. The article doesn't go into a lot of detail, but my guess is that the bacteria can break up the carbamate links.
sytelus 7y ago
It seems there is a ritual of articles every 6 months for finding a microbe to degrade plastic for past 5 years now. I wonder what is the real story.
irthomasthomas 7y ago
I doubt this will ever compete with power generation from incineration. Most plastics are recycled into power and smoke. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/03/should-we-burn-plastic-waste/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/03/shoul...
scrooched_moose 7y ago
I've always been curious about the balance here. Breaking down plastic waste sounds great, except it almost certainly releases CO2. Leaving it in a landfill is probably the better option. Granted, if they could turn these plastics into some sort of biofuel it would be a much different story. Better to convert the waste we already have then pump more oil. It's unclear whether that is a byproduct of this microbe.
colinng 7y ago
I prefer we not engineer bugs to rot our plastics. The problem is not that plastics are durable. The problem is humans are shortsighted and have not developed systematic thinking and processes to prevent waste. We need plastics. Durable, rot-resistant, waterproof, light, strong, malleable, easy to cast into different shapes. But we as a species do not reuse and recycle enough, and even throw plastics into the ocean or into compost bins. How about we get to the root of the problem, instead of apply bandaid atop of bandaid? Reduce, reuse, recycle. Repair, repurpose, reclaim (put money into cleaning up our oceans?), rethink (do we need individually wrapped produce?) etc.
peter_d_sherman 7y ago
It's interesting, because pretty much for anything you want to do chemically these days: "There's a bacteria for that..." Perhaps Marc Andreessen should have said "Bacteria are eating the world" (quite literally!) -- instead of "software"... In the next century, things very well might be that way! <g>

174 points by dnetesn 7y ago

ilitirit 7y ago

Have there been studies about the dangers of these types of microbes spreading out into the "wild"?

funklute 7y ago
The article talks about a microbe that already exists in the wild.
- ilitirit 7y ago
  I'm not referring to this article - I'm referring to the general case of plastic-eating microbes. Plastic eating organisms are not new. Even certain types of mealworms will eat styrofoam... Articles like these are published several times a year, but I don't think I've seen any studies on the potential impact. This article mentions it, but there are no accompanying references. http://theconversation.com/how-plastic-eating-bacteria-actually-work-a-chemist-explains-95233 http://theconversation.com/how-plastic-eating-bacteria-actua...
  - imtringued 7y ago
    They are probably as dangerous as silverfish to your book collection.
Kalium 7y ago
As a lay person, I currently get the distinct impression that polymer-digesting microbes are not currently considered dangerous, with the current impacts being negligible. What kind of dangers and impacts would you like to see studied?
- ilitirit 7y ago
  > I currently get the distinct impression that polymer-digesting microbes are not currently considered dangerous, with the current impacts being negligible. Well, you've just answered it. I would like to know the scientific rationale for this or an opposing belief. I currently have no opinion on the matter because I haven't read any material to think about in any way other than "these things exist".

droffel 7y ago

Is anyone else concerned about the effects this could have if it managed to get out of containment and into the wild? A self-replicating bacteria that eats plastics sounds like a potentially catastrophic event, considering how much we use them in day to day life.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Yup. The whole reason we use plastic for everything is because it's cheap and mostly inert (i.e. doesn't break down in the environment). If plastic starts rotting we are going to be in for a really bad time. It's difficult to even imagine the cost of all the damage. Seems like we're a decently far way off from that point though.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  It pains me to think about all the plastic items I’ve bought over the years that weren’t up to the task; degraded in the sun to the point of failure; or otherwise ended up in landfill. Ideally any bacteria, or other microbes, would only breakdown plastics under certain conditions, probably in some kind of bioreactor.
funklute 7y ago
If you bothered to actually read the article, you'd see that this is a microbe that already exists in the wild.
- droffel 7y ago
  I imagine the plan is to engineer it to increase its potency. It's clearly not at a dangerous/critical point in its current form.
  - dmos62 7y ago
    Extremely rapidly degrading plastics would still be a better situation than extremely slowly degrading plastics.

melicerte 7y ago

How is this different from the products currently developed by companies like Carbios[1] ? I'm a totally ignorant in physics and chemistry (except from what I've studied at school) so excuse my genuine question. [1] https://carbios.fr/en/ https://carbios.fr/en/

Ygg2 7y ago
Carbios looks like a product. This is essentially a microorganism that feeds on plastics.
- addHocker 7y ago
  Thats gonna be a hard to swallow pill for a lot of sea wildlife.
- melicerte 7y ago
  So this is the same as what is talked about in the post?

gadders 7y ago

There are also caterpillars that eat plastic: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-017-00593-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-017-00593-y

rseed42 7y ago

Guess they haven't read some science fiction classics :) Mutant 59 The Plastic Eater Book by Gerry Davis and Kit Pedler

grandinj 7y ago

These microbes are surprisingly hard to scale up i.e. to make them work on large amounts of product at a time. (My wife did research on such bugs for a while). All sorts of things start happening once you have a lot of them, and the process becomes incredibly tricky to keep going.

dwnvoted2hell 7y ago
So you breed them in an environment interspersed with other things? There seem to be at least 5 organisms that do some level of plastic digestion.
lolive 7y ago
Do they get fat and lazy? [Maybe we should invent Netflix for microbes, then]
- grandinj 7y ago
  (Paraphrasing because of my limited understanding of what my wife did) The biological pathway that makes them eat plastic is pretty card to keep activated. It's not a very profitable pathway, so the bugs tend to try eating other stuff if there is even a little available, or they are even a little outside the optimal range for eating plastic.
  - highfrequency 7y ago
    Interesting stuff, would love to hear more intuition about why this is difficult. Is it just that we haven't found an economical pathway for metabolizing plastics, or is there a fundamental reason why one should not exist? Hydrocarbons have an energy density 2-3x higher than glucose, so naively it seems like there should be a profitable metabolic pathway!
    - zinclozenge 7y ago
      Hydrocarbons are extremely stable, which means it requires a large energy input to break them up. The article doesn't go into a lot of detail, but my guess is that the bacteria can break up the carbamate links.

sytelus 7y ago

It seems there is a ritual of articles every 6 months for finding a microbe to degrade plastic for past 5 years now. I wonder what is the real story.

irthomasthomas 7y ago

I doubt this will ever compete with power generation from incineration. Most plastics are recycled into power and smoke. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/03/should-we-burn-plastic-waste/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/03/shoul...

scrooched_moose 7y ago

I've always been curious about the balance here. Breaking down plastic waste sounds great, except it almost certainly releases CO2. Leaving it in a landfill is probably the better option. Granted, if they could turn these plastics into some sort of biofuel it would be a much different story. Better to convert the waste we already have then pump more oil. It's unclear whether that is a byproduct of this microbe.

colinng 7y ago

I prefer we not engineer bugs to rot our plastics. The problem is not that plastics are durable. The problem is humans are shortsighted and have not developed systematic thinking and processes to prevent waste. We need plastics. Durable, rot-resistant, waterproof, light, strong, malleable, easy to cast into different shapes. But we as a species do not reuse and recycle enough, and even throw plastics into the ocean or into compost bins. How about we get to the root of the problem, instead of apply bandaid atop of bandaid? Reduce, reuse, recycle. Repair, repurpose, reclaim (put money into cleaning up our oceans?), rethink (do we need individually wrapped produce?) etc.

peter_d_sherman 7y ago

It's interesting, because pretty much for anything you want to do chemically these days: "There's a bacteria for that..." Perhaps Marc Andreessen should have said "Bacteria are eating the world" (quite literally!) -- instead of "software"... In the next century, things very well might be that way! <g>