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recovering addict here. some words for those who may be struggling. i tried a number of things over many years (life coach, therapy, meditation retreats, ayahu

recovering addict here. some words for those who may be struggling. i tried a number of things over many years (life coach, therapy, meditation retreats, ayahuasca, ibogaine, etc). i reached a bottom, and nothing i had tried really worked or stuck. kept relapsing after a few months of sobriety at most. ultimately it was going to AA that i largely credit to my successful transformation into a happy life of sobriety. if you're not sure if it's right for you and struggling with addiction, i highly recommend having an open mind, and trying 90 meetings and 90 days. see how you feel after. it's the daily practice that is transformative. there is something powerful about being focused on a purpose with a group of similarly motivated people. the people in the rooms of AA understand the challenge you're facing in a way that friends and family often don't. you quickly realize that the 'higher power' thing is a pretty easy to move beyond, regardless of your religious orientation. a 'higher power' can even be a conceptual device - e.g. the wisdom of the people in your meeting who have achieved a life of sobriety. it's also not to say that AA in itself is a savior. it's a healthy component to integrate as part of a balanced recovery of body, mind, and spirit. eating well, exercising often, and finding ways to be helpful are other important pillars to incorporate along your journey. good luck, be well.

athrowaway69 7y ago
I had other experiences. The friendships I had in AA were superficial. Once, when I was struggling and needed help and people to talk to, I was completely ignored by the people around me. They didn't want to help the struggling - just to have this toxic positivity that nothing is wrong. I later moved out of state. I came back to visit family, and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had relapsed after I moved and continued using until I was homeless. It was a drama fest. Absolutely ridiculous. When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists.
- king_panic 7y ago
  That is sad. I'm so sorry.
- craftyguy 7y ago
  > When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists. That's unfortunate, and mostly in line with other experiences I've heard from friends, etc. AA seems like just another bullshit Christian recruitment/retention facility, that sometimes accidentally helps people who buy into it recover from addiction. Too bad.
  - deleted 7y ago
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  - jariel 7y ago
    "AA seems like just another bullshit Christian recruitment/retention facility, that sometimes accidentally helps people who buy into it recover from addiction." This is essentially false, and borderline bigotry.
  - NAaddict167 7y ago
    My current sponsor’s higher power was once an imaginary vagina. It spoke to him and everything. Try and fit that in the Christianity column.
    - hoistbypetard 7y ago
      (not who you were replying to...) > My current sponsor’s higher power was once an imaginary vagina. > It spoke to him and everything. That made me laugh audibly, and next time I need to refer to a higher power in any sort of conversation, I fully plan to work that in. If you ever have the occasion to tell your sponsor that this story inspired such a reaction from a random person on the internet, I hope it amuses him.
    - Broken_Hippo 7y ago
      I shouldn't have to make up a higher power and do anything with that imaginary construct to make it through the steps of a sobriety program, though. The fact that I'd have to lie about it in the first place is the issue - it doesn't matter if other people's higher power is something non-christian or not. I cannot just be myself.
- toofy 7y ago
  > ... and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had relapsed after I moved and continued using until I was homeless. It was a drama fest. I obviously don’t have your unique and nuanced understanding of the situation, but this seems like a common occurrence with all humans when they lack information. In my experience when we don’t have information, our group tendencies lean towards filling gaps with the outlandish and dramatic. Again, I don’t know much about AA but I’d question whether that situational behavior was driven by something unique to AA. Though, their hostility to atheism is a problem they should have addressed long ago.
  - deleted 7y ago
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  - bawolff 7y ago
    Humans might have a tendency to gossip...but what's described sounds pretty extreme and well, toxic. To make the broader point, just because humans tend to be assholes does not mean we should accept people being assholes as "natural" or ok.
    - toofy 7y ago
      Oh I certainly did not mean to imply it’s natural or OK... To be more clear, this type of toxicity is seen all over the place and I think this behavior is likely caused by something that isn’t unique to any rehabilitation programs. We see this toxic behavior in everything spanning from job workgroups to community planning committees and yes, it even manifests in extreme ways in many many communities. I’d be the very last person to fall back on some “oh X is natural, so we should always accept X.” so if I gave this impression, huge apologies. It definitely was not my intention. And I really don’t want to come across as if I’m stanning for AA as I’ve heard much more negative about them than positive.
  - deleted 7y ago
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  - P_I_Staker 7y ago
    The relapsed part sure, but having a story that detailed is absurd. He stopped coming to our meeting? Must be homeless and turning tricks on corner... Absolutely ridiculous
- koheripbal 7y ago
  Like any random group of people, there will always be outliers. I have had nothing but positive experiences with these groups.
  - P_I_Staker 7y ago
    I wouldn't be so quick to call him an outlier. His experience is far from uncommon. You can find plenty of people who've had the same or other problems.
- iateanapple 7y ago
  > When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists. In my experience there are two types of atheists who go to AA: those for whom religion “isn’t their thing” and those who are actively hostile to religion. I think the latter group should find an alternative to AA.
  - deleted 7y ago
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  - xnyan 7y ago
    Why should they find an alternate group? I thought the purpose was to address alcohol addiction. And to what group should they go?
    - ineedasername 7y ago
      The AA treatment has a component that many atheists may interpret as religious or spiritual. If that's your interpretation, and you are actively hostile to that belief, then your own world view is not compatible with either the treatment path or the social group you will encounter. That is not going to be a high probability scenario for recovery, and it may interfere with others' recovery, and that's why you should find another group. Which other group? That's a different question. There doesn't have to be an alternative for AA to be a bad option. Though as it turns out, there are many options. A little searching shows there are AA for athiest groups which, presumably, use a modified protocol.
      - xnyan 7y ago
        What I'm hearing is if you are hostile and rude, you should not participate (not trying to put words in your mouth). I agree.
  - athrowaway69 7y ago
    Nice. Blaming the victim and implying I was the hostile one. I'm respectful of others' religions. It's a private matter. I made friends, ostensibly, until they found out I was an atheist. So fuck right off with your pseudo-righteous bullshit, okay?
- elixanchor 7y ago
  sorry that you had these experiences, i can relate to aspects of them as well. each meeting can be quite different. i had to try 10-20 of them in my city to find a few that were on my wavelength. i don't attend aa meetings as often as i used to in early sobriety, but i still go if i have a friend that's struggling and want to open this resource to them. at every meeting, there are things that people say that resonate and things that are cringe-worthy or even inflammatory. part of the meditation and process is being able to be hear and react to everyone's words with equanimity.
C19is20 7y ago
After 15yrs of a-abuse, 4 bottles of alcover (sodium oxibate? i believe available - prescription only - only in one country) cured me. I bought 2 cases of xtra-strong beer 'just in case', have had 2 cans on my desk for months now. 0 interest in drinking.
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  Why in the world would you tempt yourself like that?
  - FillardMillmore 7y ago
    I obviously cant speak for the OP, but theres something to be said for putting yourself in a situation that requires discipline and resistance of temptation (though you're absolutely correct, in this case, most certainly not a good idea for everyone). Completely tangential, but I've come to think of Gandhi's celibacy tests with naked women in this way.
  - dvtrn 7y ago
    You see temptation, I see “a reminder”. Speaking as someone who has beaten an addiction of my own and did something similar. 4 years. Nary a single relapse to speak of. It’s not for everyone, no. But that’s okay. Few things are.
  - holler 7y ago
    Addiction is all about control... either it controls us or we (think) we control it. It's a perverse feedback loop.
  - tejtm 7y ago
    How can you know you who is in control if you don't?
  - ineedasername 7y ago
    I've heard of the practice before, it seems a common, if not majority practice.
  - 7y ago
RickJWagner 7y ago
Thank you for sharing. Good luck on your continued journey-- wishing you all the best.
mdrachuk 7y ago
I always fancied the stoic concept of “higher power” basically a combination of the Universe and “reason”. This is what I turn to in any theological discussions. It’s great you’re willing to overcome the technicalities for a greater good. Too many people are restrained by their own ego. Keep up on your righteous path.
suifbwish 7y ago
Naltrexone
mathattack 7y ago
I drove someone close to me to a 12 step program, and stayed with them for a session. It was a remarkably positive group of people helping each other through problems.
suifbwish 7y ago
I credit naltrexone for my recovery.
apatters 7y ago
AA's 12 Steps use the word God four times. They also refer to "Him" three times, to a higher "Power," a "spiritual awakening," and prayer. Nearly every step has a reference to spirituality of some kind and most of them are laced with Christian undertones. More generally the idea behind the 12 steps is to place yourself in the hands of this higher power and allow it to guide you. Basically it requires a belief in prayer. AA has worked for many many people--which is wonderful and it is demonstrably a great tool for them! But an atheist, humanist, or more generally someone who doesn't believe in spirituality is going to have to go through significant mental gymnastics to deal with the 12 Steps. It seems to me that if someone doesn't believe in God or a higher power of any kind, there are probably better first line treatments for alcohol addiction. It isn't necessary for an atheist to change their spiritual or religious beliefs in order to recover. Therapy, medication and secular support groups all exist.
- bmn__ 7y ago
  https://aaagnostica.org https://aaagnostica.org • https://aabeyondbelief.org https://aabeyondbelief.org • https://alcoholics12steps.com https://alcoholics12steps.com • https://lifering.org/ https://lifering.org/ • https://old.reddit.com/r/AtheistTwelveSteppers https://old.reddit.com/r/AtheistTwelveSteppers • https://secularaa.org https://secularaa.org • https://smartrecovery.org https://smartrecovery.org • https://sossobriety.org https://sossobriety.org
- alex_hitchins 7y ago
  I came here to say the same (but undoubtedly not nearly as well as yourself). It was the religious stuff that put me off completely. Being in a group of people all there with a common cause I felt was quite powerful. Hearing shared experiences from the community was helpful. I just couldn't pretend I was OK with peddling any form of faith.
- deleted 7y ago
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- deleted 7y ago
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- 7y ago

athrowaway69 7y ago

I had other experiences. The friendships I had in AA were superficial. Once, when I was struggling and needed help and people to talk to, I was completely ignored by the people around me. They didn't want to help the struggling - just to have this toxic positivity that nothing is wrong. I later moved out of state. I came back to visit family, and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had relapsed after I moved and continued using until I was homeless. It was a drama fest. Absolutely ridiculous. When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists.

king_panic 7y ago
That is sad. I'm so sorry.
craftyguy 7y ago
> When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists. That's unfortunate, and mostly in line with other experiences I've heard from friends, etc. AA seems like just another bullshit Christian recruitment/retention facility, that sometimes accidentally helps people who buy into it recover from addiction. Too bad.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jariel 7y ago
  "AA seems like just another bullshit Christian recruitment/retention facility, that sometimes accidentally helps people who buy into it recover from addiction." This is essentially false, and borderline bigotry.
- NAaddict167 7y ago
  My current sponsor’s higher power was once an imaginary vagina. It spoke to him and everything. Try and fit that in the Christianity column.
  - hoistbypetard 7y ago
    (not who you were replying to...) > My current sponsor’s higher power was once an imaginary vagina. > It spoke to him and everything. That made me laugh audibly, and next time I need to refer to a higher power in any sort of conversation, I fully plan to work that in. If you ever have the occasion to tell your sponsor that this story inspired such a reaction from a random person on the internet, I hope it amuses him.
  - Broken_Hippo 7y ago
    I shouldn't have to make up a higher power and do anything with that imaginary construct to make it through the steps of a sobriety program, though. The fact that I'd have to lie about it in the first place is the issue - it doesn't matter if other people's higher power is something non-christian or not. I cannot just be myself.
toofy 7y ago
> ... and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had relapsed after I moved and continued using until I was homeless. It was a drama fest. I obviously don’t have your unique and nuanced understanding of the situation, but this seems like a common occurrence with all humans when they lack information. In my experience when we don’t have information, our group tendencies lean towards filling gaps with the outlandish and dramatic. Again, I don’t know much about AA but I’d question whether that situational behavior was driven by something unique to AA. Though, their hostility to atheism is a problem they should have addressed long ago.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bawolff 7y ago
  Humans might have a tendency to gossip...but what's described sounds pretty extreme and well, toxic. To make the broader point, just because humans tend to be assholes does not mean we should accept people being assholes as "natural" or ok.
  - toofy 7y ago
    Oh I certainly did not mean to imply it’s natural or OK... To be more clear, this type of toxicity is seen all over the place and I think this behavior is likely caused by something that isn’t unique to any rehabilitation programs. We see this toxic behavior in everything spanning from job workgroups to community planning committees and yes, it even manifests in extreme ways in many many communities. I’d be the very last person to fall back on some “oh X is natural, so we should always accept X.” so if I gave this impression, huge apologies. It definitely was not my intention. And I really don’t want to come across as if I’m stanning for AA as I’ve heard much more negative about them than positive.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  The relapsed part sure, but having a story that detailed is absurd. He stopped coming to our meeting? Must be homeless and turning tricks on corner... Absolutely ridiculous
koheripbal 7y ago
Like any random group of people, there will always be outliers. I have had nothing but positive experiences with these groups.
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  I wouldn't be so quick to call him an outlier. His experience is far from uncommon. You can find plenty of people who've had the same or other problems.
iateanapple 7y ago
> When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists. In my experience there are two types of atheists who go to AA: those for whom religion “isn’t their thing” and those who are actively hostile to religion. I think the latter group should find an alternative to AA.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- xnyan 7y ago
  Why should they find an alternate group? I thought the purpose was to address alcohol addiction. And to what group should they go?
  - ineedasername 7y ago
    The AA treatment has a component that many atheists may interpret as religious or spiritual. If that's your interpretation, and you are actively hostile to that belief, then your own world view is not compatible with either the treatment path or the social group you will encounter. That is not going to be a high probability scenario for recovery, and it may interfere with others' recovery, and that's why you should find another group. Which other group? That's a different question. There doesn't have to be an alternative for AA to be a bad option. Though as it turns out, there are many options. A little searching shows there are AA for athiest groups which, presumably, use a modified protocol.
    - xnyan 7y ago
      What I'm hearing is if you are hostile and rude, you should not participate (not trying to put words in your mouth). I agree.
- athrowaway69 7y ago
  Nice. Blaming the victim and implying I was the hostile one. I'm respectful of others' religions. It's a private matter. I made friends, ostensibly, until they found out I was an atheist. So fuck right off with your pseudo-righteous bullshit, okay?
elixanchor 7y ago
sorry that you had these experiences, i can relate to aspects of them as well. each meeting can be quite different. i had to try 10-20 of them in my city to find a few that were on my wavelength. i don't attend aa meetings as often as i used to in early sobriety, but i still go if i have a friend that's struggling and want to open this resource to them. at every meeting, there are things that people say that resonate and things that are cringe-worthy or even inflammatory. part of the meditation and process is being able to be hear and react to everyone's words with equanimity.

C19is20 7y ago

After 15yrs of a-abuse, 4 bottles of alcover (sodium oxibate? i believe available - prescription only - only in one country) cured me. I bought 2 cases of xtra-strong beer 'just in case', have had 2 cans on my desk for months now. 0 interest in drinking.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Why in the world would you tempt yourself like that?
- FillardMillmore 7y ago
  I obviously cant speak for the OP, but theres something to be said for putting yourself in a situation that requires discipline and resistance of temptation (though you're absolutely correct, in this case, most certainly not a good idea for everyone). Completely tangential, but I've come to think of Gandhi's celibacy tests with naked women in this way.
- dvtrn 7y ago
  You see temptation, I see “a reminder”. Speaking as someone who has beaten an addiction of my own and did something similar. 4 years. Nary a single relapse to speak of. It’s not for everyone, no. But that’s okay. Few things are.
- holler 7y ago
  Addiction is all about control... either it controls us or we (think) we control it. It's a perverse feedback loop.
- tejtm 7y ago
  How can you know you who is in control if you don't?
- ineedasername 7y ago
  I've heard of the practice before, it seems a common, if not majority practice.
- 7y ago

RickJWagner 7y ago

Thank you for sharing. Good luck on your continued journey-- wishing you all the best.

mdrachuk 7y ago

I always fancied the stoic concept of “higher power” basically a combination of the Universe and “reason”. This is what I turn to in any theological discussions. It’s great you’re willing to overcome the technicalities for a greater good. Too many people are restrained by their own ego. Keep up on your righteous path.

suifbwish 7y ago

Naltrexone

mathattack 7y ago

I drove someone close to me to a 12 step program, and stayed with them for a session. It was a remarkably positive group of people helping each other through problems.

suifbwish 7y ago

I credit naltrexone for my recovery.

apatters 7y ago

AA's 12 Steps use the word God four times. They also refer to "Him" three times, to a higher "Power," a "spiritual awakening," and prayer. Nearly every step has a reference to spirituality of some kind and most of them are laced with Christian undertones. More generally the idea behind the 12 steps is to place yourself in the hands of this higher power and allow it to guide you. Basically it requires a belief in prayer. AA has worked for many many people--which is wonderful and it is demonstrably a great tool for them! But an atheist, humanist, or more generally someone who doesn't believe in spirituality is going to have to go through significant mental gymnastics to deal with the 12 Steps. It seems to me that if someone doesn't believe in God or a higher power of any kind, there are probably better first line treatments for alcohol addiction. It isn't necessary for an atheist to change their spiritual or religious beliefs in order to recover. Therapy, medication and secular support groups all exist.

bmn__ 7y ago
https://aaagnostica.org https://aaagnostica.org • https://aabeyondbelief.org https://aabeyondbelief.org • https://alcoholics12steps.com https://alcoholics12steps.com • https://lifering.org/ https://lifering.org/ • https://old.reddit.com/r/AtheistTwelveSteppers https://old.reddit.com/r/AtheistTwelveSteppers • https://secularaa.org https://secularaa.org • https://smartrecovery.org https://smartrecovery.org • https://sossobriety.org https://sossobriety.org
alex_hitchins 7y ago
I came here to say the same (but undoubtedly not nearly as well as yourself). It was the religious stuff that put me off completely. Being in a group of people all there with a common cause I felt was quite powerful. Hearing shared experiences from the community was helpful. I just couldn't pretend I was OK with peddling any form of faith.
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7y ago