7 ms·

You know what? I bet you, most people don't enjoy wasting 3h+ of the day commuting. Waking up at the crack of dawn to rush into the office. They probably don'

You know what? I bet you, most people don't enjoy wasting 3h+ of the day commuting. Waking up at the crack of dawn to rush into the office. They probably don't enjoy the forced beer night outs with coworkers and mundane water cooler conversations either. They have real friends and loved ones they rather be with. People go to work so that they can put food on the table, they don't go to the office to socialize. There are plenty of better ways to interact with people other than the office. I bet you, they also rather use their own private washrooms. Eat fresh food at home and be in their comfortable A/C home rather than a cramped office. Just because the society demands that everyone joins the rat race to go to the office, it doesn't mean it's an acceptable status quo.

qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago
> wasting 3h+ of the day commuting It's not wasting, it's time to myself. Do you have kids? I get a lot done during that time, I need that.
- kochikame 7y ago
  not sure why this is so downvoted Commuting (if done by public transport anyway) can be productive time, personal development time, gaming time, reading time etc. It's often the only time people get to themselves all day. Even if you drive, there are podcasts and audiobooks.
  - nightski 7y ago
    I've been working from home for 8 years. If you really desire the commute, just go drive around. Or, better yet, take a walk or bike. I do this every day in the summer. It's much more enjoyable than being packed in traffic.
  - tjr225 7y ago
    You have got to be kidding me. Melting precious, finite fossil fuels to spend time going to your job because you need time away from your family? How can you sincerely sit here and type this? I’ll take the downvotes- this is absurdity.
    - vcanales 7y ago
      Agreed. It's funny that they're failing to see the irony that WFH is a way for them to reclaim that time, by instead of being forced to commute, bugging off to your nearest coffee shop and getting some of that time for yourself without the hassle. Also, some people don't get to commute on comfy trains, ubers, or cars, and instead have to take crowded subway trains where this time is for themselves and shared with the other 6 people touching their body and breathing down their neck.
      - anoncake 7y ago
        Commuting by car is mostly wasted time too unless you really like audiobooks and podcasts.
    - cloakandswagger 7y ago
      I've often marveled at the absurdity of how many of my coworkers openly admit that a big appeal of the office for them is getting away from their wives and kids. Healthy and normal!
      - TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Before becoming a parent I wondered about it too. Now I understand. Little kids are a disaster to one's brainpower and sanity. WFH with an infant next door is much harder. Going to an office to work really feels like a break instead of a chore.
        qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago
        In my life experience, myself included, I often knew about something a lot when, in fact, I really didn't. I suspect those that are down-voting us older people haven't yet experienced what we did or are.
        TeMPOraL 7y ago
        I believe so. Before my daughter was born, I thought I knew what to expect. I was very wrong, but not in the things I thought I might be. A lot of minutiae of parenthood caught me by surprise - and ended up explaining mysteries like suddenly starting to enjoy the office.
  - deathanatos 7y ago
    It can be; it can also be a sardine can with no room for that.
  - chillwaves 7y ago
    Public transit vs fighting through traffic is a vastly different experience. Maybe if it was a relaxing drive in, but if you live around a major metro, traffic is probably horrendous and it's hard to enjoy that time.
  - rexarex 7y ago
    It’s sad that you have so little control over your time. This is an extreme rationalization if I’ve ever heard it. Wouldn’t you rather have alone time anywhere else but crammed in a train? Perhaps, a park?
    - jlokier 7y ago
      A train, not too crammed and with a table, is actually a nice place to be alone for an hour with one's laptop, working on one's favourite open source project, studying something of interest, or reading Hacker News. A park is fine for a stroll, a stretch, a bit of fresh air. But people need quiet, unpressured, indoors time to themselves as well. Coffee shop outside work time works too, in theory. (Although those can be more packed than a train.) But you may have to fight to be "allowed" alone time if it appears to be discretionary, because not everyone understands or accepts that. They think it is selfish. People are strange, and will happily understand and let someone "go to work" with set hours and a "commute". But strangely, not if the someone wants the equivalent personal time outside work with no commute. You are right that it's sad for someone to have that little control over their time. But it is a fact of life for many people with families. "Work" time is accepted only when the time appears imposed by a third party; self-selected alone time, not so much.
  - thraxil 7y ago
    That sounds lovely but doesn't match everyone's experiences. I spent two years commuting from Park Slope to the Upper West Side in NYC for a 9-5 job (so rush hour commutes). Standing room only, two transfers, loud, smelly, and stressful. No way to read or do anything productive.
sl1ck731 7y ago
> I bet you, they also rather use their own private washrooms. Underrated perk. I used to have to go down 6 floors and search for a nice, hidden restroom on a mostly female floor to be comfortable.
- kasey_junk 7y ago
  Being in charge of what paper products are purchased is a strong perk as well. Ditto the coffee beans, afternoon tea & Pens stocked by the office manager (me)
txcwpalpha 7y ago
In regards to the commute, you're probably right. But you live in a bubble if you think those most workers see nights out with their coworkers as "forced". After-work happy hours are the absolute highlight of the week/month for most people I know that work in banking, consulting, sales, education, etc. Many of them will even voluntarily meet up outside of work to spend more time together. Many people, especially those in non-tech industries, aren't so introverted as most SWEs, and are actually friends with their coworkers and love the opportunity to socialize throughout the day while at work. Most everyone I know that works outside of tech would dread the thought of having to spend every day alone at home without people to chat with in the break room. Just because you apparently have such a negative attitude towards your coworkers does not mean that most others do.
- wolco 7y ago
  That's until you reach a certain point in your life (baby, sponse) or the staff changes or teams structure. We've all been there. The strongest bonds were made at my first few companies. Once you leave and are no longer friends hanging out you'll probably realize they are not true friends. But those times were great. Besides we in tech need to go home to work on our side project.
  - txcwpalpha 7y ago
    > That's until you reach a certain point in your life (baby, sponse) I’m past that point, as are all of my friends. Nothing in my comment is changed by that fact. If anything, coworker relationships actually become more important as you get older and your other friends start to drift away. Post age 30, work is one of the best (if not the only, for most people) opportunities to socialize and make friends. I’ve noticed that people in other fields realize this and take advantage of it, but those in technical positions don’t, and many techies seem to even actively despise that aspect.
    - pdimitar 7y ago
      We are being treated as interchangeable cogwheels. At certain point you do start to despise the social aspects of work, yes. Plus, I've had several people -- all the way to the CEO -- assure me how much I am appreciated and even looked at as a superhuman, yet 2 months later boom, we have to lay you off. Defense mechanism or not, it's pretty normal to not mix personal and work lives and you pretending it's not dysfunctional to have friends at work is actually a bit worrying. You just got lucky, mate. That's cool and I am happy for you. But you should recognise it should absolutely not be the normal state of affairs.
KeepFlying 7y ago
I think you make some valid points for some people, but I think you may be overlooking the fact that for some, the social connections made at work can be very valuable. Especially for people who recently move to a new area, "work friends" can be as valuable as other social groups. I go to the office to socialize. Its not my primary reason of course, but I value the conversations I have over lunch, and we often take time to play games after work or get involved in sports as a bonding experience. To dismiss the social aspects of office work is going a bit too far. I accept though that many people feel like you do in this case. I just want to point out that many people may value the things that you do not.
benbristow 7y ago
> They probably don't enjoy the forced beer night outs with coworkers and mundane water cooler conversations either Those mundane water cooler conversations are the only conversations I'd get if I weren't in the office. I enjoy them. > There are plenty of better ways to interact with people other than the office Like what?
nkozyra 7y ago
Lots of people prefer different things. I'm not sure I understand the acrimony here. My point was that they can be advantages to being in person and this wfh Utopia is not one size fits all.
easytiger 7y ago
Your experience and personal issues don't reflect the thinking of the rest of the world

qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago

> wasting 3h+ of the day commuting It's not wasting, it's time to myself. Do you have kids? I get a lot done during that time, I need that.

kochikame 7y ago
not sure why this is so downvoted Commuting (if done by public transport anyway) can be productive time, personal development time, gaming time, reading time etc. It's often the only time people get to themselves all day. Even if you drive, there are podcasts and audiobooks.
- nightski 7y ago
  I've been working from home for 8 years. If you really desire the commute, just go drive around. Or, better yet, take a walk or bike. I do this every day in the summer. It's much more enjoyable than being packed in traffic.
- tjr225 7y ago
  You have got to be kidding me. Melting precious, finite fossil fuels to spend time going to your job because you need time away from your family? How can you sincerely sit here and type this? I’ll take the downvotes- this is absurdity.
  - vcanales 7y ago
    Agreed. It's funny that they're failing to see the irony that WFH is a way for them to reclaim that time, by instead of being forced to commute, bugging off to your nearest coffee shop and getting some of that time for yourself without the hassle. Also, some people don't get to commute on comfy trains, ubers, or cars, and instead have to take crowded subway trains where this time is for themselves and shared with the other 6 people touching their body and breathing down their neck.
    - anoncake 7y ago
      Commuting by car is mostly wasted time too unless you really like audiobooks and podcasts.
  - cloakandswagger 7y ago
    I've often marveled at the absurdity of how many of my coworkers openly admit that a big appeal of the office for them is getting away from their wives and kids. Healthy and normal!
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Before becoming a parent I wondered about it too. Now I understand. Little kids are a disaster to one's brainpower and sanity. WFH with an infant next door is much harder. Going to an office to work really feels like a break instead of a chore.
      - qrbLPHiKpiux 7y ago
        In my life experience, myself included, I often knew about something a lot when, in fact, I really didn't. I suspect those that are down-voting us older people haven't yet experienced what we did or are.
        TeMPOraL 7y ago
        I believe so. Before my daughter was born, I thought I knew what to expect. I was very wrong, but not in the things I thought I might be. A lot of minutiae of parenthood caught me by surprise - and ended up explaining mysteries like suddenly starting to enjoy the office.
- deathanatos 7y ago
  It can be; it can also be a sardine can with no room for that.
- chillwaves 7y ago
  Public transit vs fighting through traffic is a vastly different experience. Maybe if it was a relaxing drive in, but if you live around a major metro, traffic is probably horrendous and it's hard to enjoy that time.
- rexarex 7y ago
  It’s sad that you have so little control over your time. This is an extreme rationalization if I’ve ever heard it. Wouldn’t you rather have alone time anywhere else but crammed in a train? Perhaps, a park?
  - jlokier 7y ago
    A train, not too crammed and with a table, is actually a nice place to be alone for an hour with one's laptop, working on one's favourite open source project, studying something of interest, or reading Hacker News. A park is fine for a stroll, a stretch, a bit of fresh air. But people need quiet, unpressured, indoors time to themselves as well. Coffee shop outside work time works too, in theory. (Although those can be more packed than a train.) But you may have to fight to be "allowed" alone time if it appears to be discretionary, because not everyone understands or accepts that. They think it is selfish. People are strange, and will happily understand and let someone "go to work" with set hours and a "commute". But strangely, not if the someone wants the equivalent personal time outside work with no commute. You are right that it's sad for someone to have that little control over their time. But it is a fact of life for many people with families. "Work" time is accepted only when the time appears imposed by a third party; self-selected alone time, not so much.
- thraxil 7y ago
  That sounds lovely but doesn't match everyone's experiences. I spent two years commuting from Park Slope to the Upper West Side in NYC for a 9-5 job (so rush hour commutes). Standing room only, two transfers, loud, smelly, and stressful. No way to read or do anything productive.

sl1ck731 7y ago

> I bet you, they also rather use their own private washrooms. Underrated perk. I used to have to go down 6 floors and search for a nice, hidden restroom on a mostly female floor to be comfortable.

kasey_junk 7y ago
Being in charge of what paper products are purchased is a strong perk as well. Ditto the coffee beans, afternoon tea & Pens stocked by the office manager (me)

txcwpalpha 7y ago

In regards to the commute, you're probably right. But you live in a bubble if you think those most workers see nights out with their coworkers as "forced". After-work happy hours are the absolute highlight of the week/month for most people I know that work in banking, consulting, sales, education, etc. Many of them will even voluntarily meet up outside of work to spend more time together. Many people, especially those in non-tech industries, aren't so introverted as most SWEs, and are actually friends with their coworkers and love the opportunity to socialize throughout the day while at work. Most everyone I know that works outside of tech would dread the thought of having to spend every day alone at home without people to chat with in the break room. Just because you apparently have such a negative attitude towards your coworkers does not mean that most others do.

wolco 7y ago
That's until you reach a certain point in your life (baby, sponse) or the staff changes or teams structure. We've all been there. The strongest bonds were made at my first few companies. Once you leave and are no longer friends hanging out you'll probably realize they are not true friends. But those times were great. Besides we in tech need to go home to work on our side project.
- txcwpalpha 7y ago
  > That's until you reach a certain point in your life (baby, sponse) I’m past that point, as are all of my friends. Nothing in my comment is changed by that fact. If anything, coworker relationships actually become more important as you get older and your other friends start to drift away. Post age 30, work is one of the best (if not the only, for most people) opportunities to socialize and make friends. I’ve noticed that people in other fields realize this and take advantage of it, but those in technical positions don’t, and many techies seem to even actively despise that aspect.
  - pdimitar 7y ago
    We are being treated as interchangeable cogwheels. At certain point you do start to despise the social aspects of work, yes. Plus, I've had several people -- all the way to the CEO -- assure me how much I am appreciated and even looked at as a superhuman, yet 2 months later boom, we have to lay you off. Defense mechanism or not, it's pretty normal to not mix personal and work lives and you pretending it's not dysfunctional to have friends at work is actually a bit worrying. You just got lucky, mate. That's cool and I am happy for you. But you should recognise it should absolutely not be the normal state of affairs.

KeepFlying 7y ago

I think you make some valid points for some people, but I think you may be overlooking the fact that for some, the social connections made at work can be very valuable. Especially for people who recently move to a new area, "work friends" can be as valuable as other social groups. I go to the office to socialize. Its not my primary reason of course, but I value the conversations I have over lunch, and we often take time to play games after work or get involved in sports as a bonding experience. To dismiss the social aspects of office work is going a bit too far. I accept though that many people feel like you do in this case. I just want to point out that many people may value the things that you do not.

benbristow 7y ago

> They probably don't enjoy the forced beer night outs with coworkers and mundane water cooler conversations either Those mundane water cooler conversations are the only conversations I'd get if I weren't in the office. I enjoy them. > There are plenty of better ways to interact with people other than the office Like what?

nkozyra 7y ago

Lots of people prefer different things. I'm not sure I understand the acrimony here. My point was that they can be advantages to being in person and this wfh Utopia is not one size fits all.

easytiger 7y ago

Your experience and personal issues don't reflect the thinking of the rest of the world