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Pizza Effect
- avelis 7y agoAnother good example not listed is the burrito. The burrito in the US isn't a thing in Latin America. However, it is pinned as being Latin food vs Latin-American food. I guess the disqualifying difference is most don't travel to Latin America looking for an amazing burrito.
- p1necone 7y agoThat's only really true because the areas of the USA where the Burrito is common were part of Mexico until very recently. Burritos are definitely a Mexican invention.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- BigBubbleButt 7y ago> That's only really true because the areas of the USA where the Burrito is common were part of Mexico until very recently. Texas and California were made states over 150 years ago, and Arizona and New Mexico were made states over 100 years ago. In the scheme of American history, this is not "very recently" at all. https://www.vox.com/2015/5/1/8525335/burrito-history-invention-america https://www.vox.com/2015/5/1/8525335/burrito-history-inventi... In fact, it seems plausible (if not probable) the burrito was invented after all of those states became part of the US.
- Rebelgecko 7y agoI'm no burrito expert, but any theory saying that the term burrito were invented in the 20th century is almost certainly wrong This dictionary of Mexican slang/dialect from 1895 says that burrito is a term used in central Mexico for something fairly similar to a modern burrito (a rolled up tortilla with meat or other things inside of it) https://archive.org/details/diccionariodemej00ramouoft/page/98/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/diccionariodemej00ramouoft/page/...
- readarticle 7y agoIn the scheme of human history it’s very recently, doubly so for an isolated population distributed across massive swathes of land that are far away from DC and DF alike.
- BigBubbleButt 7y agoIt's very recent in terms of human history, but we're talking about American and Mexican history. The American Southwest wasn't settled by Mexicans until ~400 years ago.
- samatman 7y agoAnother way of putting (part of) what you're saying is that New Mexico has been a part of America for roughly 1/4 of the time it's been settled by Europeans. Nuevo México was established in 1598, New Mexico became a state in 1912.
- egfx 7y agoMaybe I’m wrong but I thought it was hard shell tacos that followed this example.
- ska 7y agoMy understanding was that they both (hard shell tacos, burritos) basically existed, at least regionally - or something close enough. But neither had any sort of ubiquity, certainly nothing like their role in "american mexican" food.
- samatman 7y agoReal-deal hard shell tacos were waiting on industrial food production. Deep-frying a corn tortilla so that it holds its shape was part of northern Mexican cuisine, but it's a meaningfully different dish. Also delicious, if somewhat fiddly to make at home. Worth doing once or twice, one lowers the tortilla into the oil with something like a disposable chopstick.
- duskwuff 7y agoSame principle applies to a lot of Americanized ethnic foods. Two other examples that come to mind are American Chinese and Japanese cuisine.
- yongjik 7y agoSame principle probably applies everywhere. There's an entire page of standard Chinese menu in Korea that you won't find in mainland.
- samatman 7y agoPad Thai being a favourite example: it's a Chinese-Thai dish, still often prepared in street stalls run by ethnically Chinese people whose ancestors have lived in Thailand for more than a century.
- SilasX 7y agoAs I understand it, the Pizza Effect refers to when the original culture adapts it back after it catches on elsewhere, so the burrito would only count if it did become a thing in Latin America.
- readarticle 7y agoThis is off the mark in a couple of ways, recognizable burritos are and have been common in Chihuahua and along the border in that region, where flour tortillas (another item often mistaken as being of US origin) are common. And tacos and burritos are noticeably Mexican / North American, not Latin American things. Totally foreign in Buenos Aires or Havana whether it’s a Taco Bell or taqueria.
- elboru 7y agoI'm from Chihuahua and I can confirm this, burritos are really common over here, but not so much in other parts of Mexico. Burritos are the food you will get when you're in a hurry. You are late or you simply don't want to cook? if you have some leftovers and flour tortillas then you have burritos! You're on the road and you want something inexpensive and ready to eat? Just look for the old lady selling burritos on the street. American burritos are kind of different though, we don't usually mix beans with rice, lettuce, cream and all that stuff. Instead we use traditional dishes like chile colorado, picadillo, chicharron en salsa verde, discada, barbacoa or whatever we have on the fridge ;)
- microtherion 7y ago> I'm from Chihuahua and I can confirm this, burritos are really common over here, but not so much in other parts of Mexico. Similarly, I believe that pizza used to be regional Neapolitan cuisine.
- throwaway17_17 7y agoTrue, but to the best of my knowledge the thing a Neopolitan pre-1900 would call pizza would have been described as a quick baked bread that was served with olive oil, basil, and a drizzling of crushed tomato sauce with maybe a chunk of mozzarella
- s1artibartfast 7y agoCan you comment on the resemblance between a Burrito from Chihuahua and California? I think a central part of the Pizza effect is not that Pizza didn't exist in Italy, but that it was radically changed by Italian Americans.
- umanwizard 7y ago“Latin America” is a big place. Go to any city in Northern Mexico in Google Maps and type “burro” or “burrito”; you will find scores of restaurants (which do not obviously cater to Anglo tourists or expats).
- csours 7y agoCan you think of any of these for programming languages?
- jedberg 7y agoDidn't C++ adopt a bunch of stuff from Java?
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoNo? Maybe closures, but what else?
- ska 7y agoclosures predate both languages and have a lot of contemporaneous examples, so I don't think that fits.
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoI know. But I think Java had them before C++, and I think that Java was the first mainstream, C++-syntax, object-oriented language to have them. (Yeah, I know, that's not saying much, because C++ and Java are the only two mainstream, C++-syntax, object-oriented languages.) The point was, C++ could have looked at Java as proof that a language like C++ could have closures, and so one could suspect that the immediate, direct inspiration was from Java. I only mentioned closures because it's the only feature I could think of that C++ has, but Java had first. (I welcome other examples, if anyone has them.)
- ska 7y agoI think this line of logic risks a "no true scotsman" issue, but a bunch of languages supported them before Java. I have no idea what the c++ committee were using as predicates, mind you, might have been java inspired.
- 7y ago
- Lucasoato 7y agoIs it true about Pizza? :/
- davidw 7y agoWondering the same thing myself. What toppings got imported into Italy from the US? Certainly not things like pineapple! Maybe things like prosciutto cotto (ham) or salamino piccante ("peperoni") ?
- jfim 7y agoPineapple as a pizza topping is apparently a Canadian thing [0]. > Greek-Canadian Sam Panopoulos claimed that he created the first Hawaiian pizza at the Satellite Restaurant in Chatham, Ontario, Canada in 1962. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_pizza
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- RandallBrown 7y agoTomatoes. Not the US, but from the Americas.
- davidw 7y agoBut that was before "pizza" as such was even invented, so I don't think that's really what this article was about.
- pazimzadeh 7y agoSome people think that pizza was Marco Polo's best try to make some Chinese scallion pancakes upon returning to Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cong_you_bing#Chinese_legend_surrounding_the_invention_of_pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cong_you_bing#Chinese_legend_s... Apparently the argument against this is that pizza existed in the Mediterranean, which is not compatible with the idea that pizza came from New York.
- jedberg 7y agoThere's a whole bunch of Chinese food that was invented in America that is now being imported back to China. Basically all the deep fried items.
- 4cao 7y agoOther than "General Tso's chicken" and "Chop suey," what else do you have in mind?
- angst_ridden 7y agofortune cookies.
- jedberg 7y agoFried wontons, orange/lemon chicken, Crab rangoon, egg foo young. All of which seem to be available in China now.
- mc32 7y agoSomething maybe related but different is cultural divergence and ossification among home country and emigrant cultures and language. Often the culture or language in the home country progresses but the emigrant version resists change or changes slower. But it also depends on degree of assimilation by emigrants to the dominant culture in their adopted countries.
- joshdick 7y agoThere's a good example of this in my South Philadelphia neighborhood: The Italian-Americans here speak Italian with the accent of a southern Italian from a century ago, frozen in time. Italian accents have progressed in Italy over that time, but not among the immigrant communities here.
- RandallBrown 7y agoI've read articles claiming the American accent is closer to what the British sounded like at the founding of the United States than what they sound like now.
- tidenly 7y agoThings like the spelling of cheque are prime examples of this. We mock the Americans for their simplistic spelling, but in actuality we took "cheque" after America had split off already in an attempt to sound more French and eloquent. American drawl accent is also closer to older English than lots of modern English accents.
- analog31 7y agoApparently this is evident in American fiddling. I've read that American fiddling technique is similar to Baroque violin playing.
- DoreenMichele 7y agoI've largely stopped trying to say anything like "I do x because of y cultural influence." Like: "My mom's German, so..." I often have no way of knowing if my mom does that thing because it's a widespread thing in German culture or if that's just a thing my mom does and it's got little or nothing to do with her being born and raised in Germany. (I've run into Germans who do the opposite of something my mom does that I thought was representative of German culture and been told their way was the norm in Germany. I threw my hands in the air and made my peace with "not everything my mom does is representative of most Germans.") We routinely think X person is from Y culture, so X person is representative of Y culture and it's frequently just absolutely not true at all. Fascinating that this fact leads to the works of essentially cultural outcasts coming home again and being embraced as "one of us" and someone we are proud to claim as a representative of our culture when they were originally "that loser we want nothing to do with, so they had to leave the country to succeed."
- thaumasiotes 7y ago> We routinely think X person is from Y culture, so X person is representative of Y culture and it's frequently just absolutely not true at all. It's trickier than that. It's almost always true. But culture has many, many dimensions. Nobody can be typical in every dimension. But if you choose a cultural element at random, and then examine a person's expression of that element, you're very likely to find that they are indeed typical of their native culture.
- DoreenMichele 7y agoMy father spent 26.5 years in the Army. He spent 18.5 years overseas in various places. I've thought long and hard about such things. TLDR of a few decades of contemplating such: People tend to move elsewhere because they don't fit in and aren't really happy where they are. The Pizza Effect explicitly describes things that got popular elsewhere first before being embraced and celebrated back home. This fits with my observation that it's the "misfits" who tend to leave. This includes my mother who left home as a teenager, moved to another country and never went home again. She had excellent reasons for doing so. This is not intended to suggest that she was wrong for failing to go along to get along. I think a lot of people that leave have high standards, refuse to compromise them and also don't want to fight with people they care about. So they leave to live by a value of "live and let live." Which might actually help explain why the Pizza Effect exists. If your best and brightest get tired of your shit, go elsewhere with their good ideas and market them as "a cool thing from my home country" and it gets successful, this could very well explain why this happens at all. I have read that real change only happens when the old guard dies out. Most people never change their minds and actively work to suppress the success of people who are a threat to their position at the top of the pecking order. So real change only happens when they drop dead, thereby making space for newcomers with new ideas to take their place.
- 76543210 7y agoItaly was seriously disappointing for food. Small and expensive quantities. The food was quite simple but they had big emphasis on the ingredients. I still found it lack luster on most occasions.
- hugi 7y agoPretty much the opposite of my experience. One might even go so far as saying Italy is large and diverse and has many different areas with multiple restaurants of varying quality.
- magic_beans 7y agoI was given cheese and buttered bread on a short regional flight in Italy. Leagues better than any cheese or bread I'd ever had in the United States.
- gerardnll 7y agoI’ve been there a few times, and it has been generally great. One of the best european countries for food. Along Spain and France. There are bad places everywhere.
- Ididntdothis 7y agoYes. Just stay away from the over touristy places. Even the food at the autostrada stops is excellent.
- jimbokun 7y agoSounds like you were eating in tourist traps.
- throwaway17_17 7y agoI just can’t agree with your experience, but am willing to believe that you certainly feel that way. I will say that hands down, the best meal I have ever had in Italy was a spit roasted half hen and crispy potato chunks on a paper plate from the random corner store by the Hotel Pink Floyd near Tremini in Rome. That experience was certainly not what most people think of when they think Italian food.
- saipardhu 7y agoI think the Pizza Effect should be renamed to Indic Effect(Given the fact that this effect has been continuously happening in India for a while now)
- Ididntdothis 7y agoAt least the Italians took pizza and made it into a very good dish compared to the US version which is way overloaded, cheesy and greasy :)
- moron4hire 7y agoI think you're missing the point of pizza
- Kuinox 7y agoMaking things greasy/cheesy does not make them better.
- moron4hire 7y ago"greasy" is usually a failure of cooking method. Even deep-fried food should not feel terribly greasy, if cooked at the right temperature. But cheese. Cheese is life.
- Kuinox 7y agothere is really good pizza without any cheese. But I do pick often 4 cheese pizza, it must be fine cheese or it's tasteless. Raw milk cheese or nothing.
- ravenstine 7y agoI like greasy pizza.
- throwaway17_17 7y ago‘Greasy’ pizza deserves its own category, comparing an amazingly greasy slice of meat topped pizza with a spicy sauce to NYC pizza or American ‘Neapolitan’ pizza via New Haven ala Sally’s (it’s better than Pepe’s, fight me) is like comparing sushi to ramen. All of it can be great!
- 7y ago
- mrspeaker 7y agoI overheard a US coworker explain that "Australians say 'dollar-y-doos' instead of 'dollars'" - because they'd heard me say it a bunch. But I got it from The Simpsons making fun of Australians... so now it's kind of actually true. (there's still no truth about Fosters Beer or "Bloomin' onions" though!)
- goodcanadian 7y agoSomething that most Australians don't even seem to realize is that Foster's group is indeed the maker of beers like VB. They simply don't sell anything branded Foster's in Australia, but they are very Australian.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y agoAustralian here. Fosters do sell Fosters branded beer here. Foster’s Classic Lager, and Foster’s Light Ice are two that immediately spring to mind.
- chrysoprace 7y agoThey seem to have made the rounds in bottle shops in recent years. The first time I ever saw Fosters anywhere was in a bottle shop in Hobart after having lived in Queensland for 10 years.
- taneq 7y agoSo they’re on the way to their own Pizza Effect?
- chrysoprace 7y agoPotentially. Does it count if it did use to be consumed in its country of origin though?
- goodcanadian 7y agoFair enough, though I don't think I ever encountered it when I lived there several years ago.
- lizardking 7y agoI wonder if there is a growing influence from the American craft brew scene back onto Europe. Last time I was in Italy I went to a place that made their own "American IPA".
- robrenaud 7y agoDefinitely. Walk the beer mile in London and you'll find a bunch of places that don't even feel especially British and would be perfectly confusible with an American microbrewery. No cask ale, no bitter. A lot of NEIPA, kettle sours with fruit, etc.
- fnord123 7y agoI'm not a beer historian but I think the American craft beer scene is a 'thing' because home brewing was legalized in 1978 and it took this long for a fabric of breweries in the US to develop to mirror what already existed in Europe or any other country. I think the influence of American IPA is quite limited and only adding to the selection rather than altering how others do anything ("influence"). That said, Duvel has a triple hop beer which tastes awful, so maybe I'm wrong and the hop fetishism is contagious.
- davidw 7y agoAustria has good beer, but here in Oregon there is a far larger variety. 40 years ago, Austrian beer was probably as good as it is now, but American beer was probably worse (I wasn't exactly of drinking age then), and there was far less variety.
- thequux 7y agoDuvel triple hop is, indeed, vile, but there are other Belgian breweries that are taking on the IPA and doing an outstanding job of it; Brussels Beer project comes to mind immediately, but I'm sure that there are others. I'd take a BBP Delta IPA or Dark Sister over nearly any American IPA. That said, the IPA style was originally British; it's called an "India" pale ale because they added a ton of extra hops to preserve the beer well enough to make the trip to India. It then got brought to the US, who picked a metric (IBU) and optimized it beyond repair, and the American take on IPA has certainly made it back to the UK (e.g., a good half of Brewdog's repertoire)
- scott_s 7y agoMy personal favorite example of this is when any character in The Simpsons, other than Homer, says D'oh! They don't say it because Homer said it. They say it because Homer said it, then our entire culture started saying it, so it's only natural for other characters in the show to say it.
- krallja 7y agoDan Castellaneta told Conan that the script is written “d’oh” when anyone other than Homer says it. Homer says “(annoyed grunt).”
- mikewhy 7y agoIt's even baked into at least one episode title: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpsoncalifragilisticexpiala(Annoyed_Grunt)cious https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpsoncalifragilisticexpiala(...
- Yhippa 7y ago> The Day of the Dead parade in Mexico City was inspired by an event in the James Bond film Spectre, which was fictional at the time of the film's production. I had no idea. I honestly thought this had been going on for years prior to that movie.
- 205guy 7y agoThat intrigued me as well, so I went to read some Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Dead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Dead). Day of the Dead is a southern Mexican celebration that evolved from the assimilation of native culture (Maya and meso-American) into the Catholic calendar (all Saints/all Souls days). It wasn't celebrated much in Mexico City and northern Mexico until recently, pushed on in part by the government celebrating more indigenous culture and creating a national holiday, and then the movie.
- yellowapple 7y agoSounds a lot like how Yule and Saturnalia (among others) got rolled into what we now call Christmas.
- eecc 7y agoUhm, sorry but no. Pizza has never been looked down in Italy. Because most Italians have most often been poor and miserable wretches that couldn’t afford to look down onto any kind of food in the first place. Perhaps just during post-WW2 we had some form of cultural colonization and shame of the past that - peaking in the ‘80s - made us love and ape anything Made in USA. Food, music, movies... just look here https://youtu.be/fJ8o26ovKjM https://youtu.be/fJ8o26ovKjM But no, even thinking that the “origin culture” is just claiming as own American-made derivations is frankly shameless hubris
- vraivroo 7y agoYou misunderstood. It's not "Pizza" that was looked down upon in Italy, it was "toppings on pizza". There are 3 official types of Neapolitan pizza, for example, and none of them have any of what Americans would traditionally consider "toppings". Putting anything other than tomato sauce, mozzarella, and seasonings on a Neapolitan pie is, simply, "looked down upon".
- viklove 7y ago> Neapolitan pie It's a bit ironic you would put these two words together in your comment. No one would call a Neapolitan pizza a pie -- that word probably originates from deep dish (aka Chicago style) pizza, which actually resembles a pie.
- RandallBrown 7y agoPizza pie was used for decades before the invention of the deep dish. https://www.crustkingdom.com/why-is-pizza-called-pie/ https://www.crustkingdom.com/why-is-pizza-called-pie/
- KozmoNau7 7y agoThere is more to Italian pizza than Neapolitan pizza. Roman pizza is distinctly different. It's either Focaccia-like thick and made in rectangular pans, or round, thin and crispy, much closer to NY-style pizza, and much more adventurous with the toppings. If anyone in Italy looks down on Roman-style pizza, they're idiots.
- mirekrusin 7y agoMy favourite is salmon sushi which was introduced by norvegian marketing/business guy in 80s and now it's pretty much a symbol of japanese sushi.
- dkdbejwi383 7y agoSame thing with Bailey’s (the whiskey cream liquor). It was invented by a marketing consultancy in London’s Soho. About as Irish as bratwurst.
- seanhunter 7y agoIt's made with Irish whiskey. It's pretty definitely more Irish than bratwurst.
- yellowapple 7y agoAt least until we start making bratwurst with Irish whiskey.
- dkdbejwi383 7y agoYou can make bratwurst with Irish pork ️
- troymc 7y agoPlanet Money (the podcast) did an episode on that: https://www.npr.org/2019/06/03/729396914/episode-651-the-salmon-taboo https://www.npr.org/2019/06/03/729396914/episode-651-the-sal...
- mgraczyk 7y agoInteresting and good to have a name for this thing. This seems to happen all the time in tech as engineers and ideas bounce between big companies. Some examples that come to mind: * Stories from Snapchat to Instagram, back to Snapchat with replies * App switching UIs iOS -> Android -> iOS with gestures * Home UI Facebook -> Twitter -> Facebook (current beta)
- chrysoprace 7y agoThis makes me wonder if there's a similar term for things that are created outside of the country that it's associated with that doesn't get reintegrated into said country. For example, I (a Danish person) had to ask my Australian friends what an "Apple Danish" was as it's similar to, but quite unlike anything you'd find in Denmark.
- vanderZwan 7y agoWell, plugging levees with fingers isn't a thing in the Netherlands, that's for sure. The town Hans Brinker came from has a statue of him purely to please the American tourists.
- dkdbejwi383 7y agoCould you explain this for a non-American?
- unwind 7y agoIt's a reference to the novel "Hans Brinker" (or "The Silver Skates") by American author Mary Mapes Dodge [1]. I haven't read it, but it contains the story of the little Dutch boy who plugs a dike with his finger (which I guess is quite obviously "story magic" if you've seen a dike). I wonder if the Dutch then erecting a statue of that boy is an example of trying to mitigate the Paris Syndrome [2] in tourists? Interesting. :) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Brinker,_or_The_Silver_Skates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Brinker,_or_The_Silver_Sk... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
- microtherion 7y agoWhen we moved back to Switzerland, we encountered an example of this: During the Mad Cow epoch, alternatives to beef like kangaroo and ostrich meat became somewhat popular here. So in a Mexican restaurant in Zürich, we saw "Kangaroo Fajitas" on the menu, a dish that has the distinction of being unknown in both Mexico and Australia.
- jdtang13 7y agoYep. It's so true when it comes to Indian philosophy. There is a ton of revisionism and strange understandings where people pretend an idea invented in 1800s is ancient. It's also somewhat true for China and Japan.
- throwaway17_17 7y agoDo you have any quick sources for the Indian perspective. I was arguing with a co-worker the other day about some of the, to my mind, odd statement they had made about Vedic practices and yoga, but didn’t have a concrete citation ready.
- jdtang13 7y agoAdvaita Vedanta is the keyword to use for most modern day, Neoplatonistic Hindu philosophy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta My understanding is that, although this teaching was technically formulated in the 8th century AD, it became popular and gained widespread resurgence in the West around 19th century. Hare Krishna movement and Theosophical Society come to mind. My guess, as a hobbyist historian, is that most everyday Hindus practiced normal, layperson devotions to humanized gods rather than truly believing in a universal soul that underlies the entire universe. Basically, any time someone tells you that Indians and Chinese people believe in "philosophy" rather than "religion", they are probably bringing in a Western orientalist bias. Actually, unsurprisingly, Eastern people are actually just religious. There is no woke philosophy going on except for the elite scholars and religious monks.
- Angostura 7y agoThis one surpised me: > The Day of the Dead parade in Mexico City was inspired by an event in the James Bond film Spectre, which was fictional at the time of the film's production
- jordigh 7y agoYep! Mexican here, I added that example! And I think it's really cool! Day of the Dead has an interesting, very modern history. The celebration keeps evolving, traditions being born before our very eyes. I'm pretty sure the coolness of skull face-painting in DotD is also a recent foreign influence, but I can't find a clear source for it. I just remember the first time I saw it was in 2008 during a Halloween party and I thought, wow, that's like the sugar skulls from Day of the Dead, cool! I didn't recognise it as a tradition but as something new.
- yellowapple 7y agoDay of the Dead is one of my favorite holidays for very similar reasons. It's fun watching it evolve and expand in real time year after year. It's that perfect intersection of novelty and tradition, and all the while reframes mortality in a refreshingly positive light. And besides, who doesn't love dead bread?
- franciscop 7y agoThere are a couple of those I know: - White sangria. "Sangria" literally means "bloodletting", and has been traditionally made from red wine. But white sangria has become popular overseas and with tourists, and now many Spanish restaurants also offer white sangria. - Eating paella at night. Traditionally in Valencia, the paella was to be eaten only at lunch time and never at dinner time. This is because it's rice-based, so it's too heavy to go to sleep afterwards and dinner time is fairly late. But a lot of tourists want to eat it at night, so restaurants serve it anytime. There's even light joking among locals when seeing someone eating paella at night "I'm sure they are tourists". I'd guess countries where there's a lot of tourism have a lot more of this pizza effect than others. The inverse would be "Yoshoku" in Japanese, which is heavily adapting the foreign dishes to local tastes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%8Dshoku https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%8Dshoku
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y agoYoshoku has now been exported outside Japan and is quite popular in eg Singapore. So you can dig into a curry at Ma Maison, a popular yoshoku chain which has a French name for no obvious reason, and contemplate that you're eating a Singaporean version of a Japanese mutation of a British navy stew inspired by Indian curry. Looking forward to somebody opening a yoshoku restaurant in India and completing the circle! http://www.ma-maison.sg/ http://www.ma-maison.sg/
- duckfruit 7y agoWell, you're in luck! https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-23/the-japanese-plan-to-sell-curry-to-india-had-an-unlikely-source https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-23/the-japan...
- IanCal 7y ago> it's too heavy to go to sleep afterwards I find this very interesting as I'd class heavy meals as exactly the kind of thing that would leave you lethargic and sleepy after eating.
- 7y ago
- 1-6 7y agoPsy - Gangnam Style is a classic example of the pizza effect. Koreans like Psy before his hit and he was just a simple comedic singer. He's a legend now.
- btilly 7y agoMy favorite example is that Caesar salad was invented in Mexico by an Italian named Caesar Cardini.
- troymc 7y agoIf you like learning about the history (and science) of the world's foods, check out the podcast Gastropod. https://gastropod.com/ https://gastropod.com/
- wesleybatista 7y agoToday a Chinese friend told me that people from China are getting the Corona Virus on other countries instead of China. Could this be considered a Pizza Effect as well or is there a better word for that?
- throwaway0a5e 7y agoSomeone wrote a popular short story about fingering a dyke (literally). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Brinker,_or_The_Silver_Skates#Popular_culture:_the_legend_of_the_boy_and_the_dike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Brinker,_or_The_Silver_Sk...
- pmarreck 7y agoCould this possibly happen at an individual/personal level too, such as when an actor does a role that they get completely typecast by?
- anonu 7y agoThis concept is about the globalisation project which has been growing steadily for the last century but has been stopped by the rise of populism. Somehow the coronavirus reminds us that we are still way more connected globally than politicians would like us to be.
- svat 7y agoWasn't expecting to see this here. I created this article about 10 years ago, when I was a lot more active on Wikipedia. Every time I remember this article I keep expecting it to get deleted sooner or later, but somehow it's made it this long. Mostly a matter of finding and adding enough references that mention the phrase I guess. (Some of the recent additions don't…) One thing I'll point out is that the effect as originally described is about things that always existed in their place of origin, but became more popular / accepted (improved in reputation) after gaining a warm reception/prestige elsewhere. (The examples here of things popularly associated with X culture despite not originating in place X are interesting too, though!) Edit: Sorry for a tangential aside, but I just looked into the history of this article, and IMO it's representative of many Wikipedia articles (and not how either the general public or Wikipedia regulars think articles get written): • Here are the first 3 years, where basically things were cleaned up and a couple of examples added, but the article was still substantially in its original (poor) form: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pizza_effect&type=revision&diff=581515546&oldid=367842361 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pizza_effect&type... • Then a single edit by another user substantially “refactored” it and cleaned it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=585383004&oldid=581515546&title=Pizza_effect&type=revision https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=585383004&oldid=58... • Another 6 years where nothing much changes fundamentally, except for a few additional examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=943600315&oldid=585383004&title=Pizza_effect&type=revision https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=943600315&oldid=58... The article has 102 revisions, and all of them have contributed to its present form… who would we say “wrote” it? See the late Aaron Swartz's “Who Writes Wikipedia?” at http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/whowriteswikipedia http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/whowriteswikipedia
- deft 7y agoCool to see the original author. I did notice a few of the examples didn't really have the pizza effect, as you said it's about the reputation changing after returning. Pizza and the Apu trilogy seem like the purest examples.
- jordigh 7y agoOh, hi. I recently learned this about a few months ago. I contributed the Mexico City Day of the Dead parade as an example. I think that applies. When I was a chilango kid in the 1980s, Day of the Dead was seen as a rather mediocre and secondary holiday to Halloween. Day of the Dead was much more Catholic and sombre and more similar to All Saints' Day in Europe (several European countries have a similar tradition to decorate graves on All Saints' Day). Now that foreigners think Day of the Dead is cool, we do too!
- tus88 7y agoLike reverse culture shock.
- bristleworm 7y agoI've got a question regarding the Pizza story: where in italy is "american" pizza supposed to be considered a delicacy?
- timendum 7y agoAnswer: nowhere
- thedogeye 7y agoWhat about Apple buying Next to get the operating system created by Steve Jobs?
- duke360 7y agosorry for the scarcity of intelligence of this comment but ... LOL
- DonHopkins 7y agoThey have New York Pizza in Amsterdam. How long until they re-re-import it as Old New York Pizza in New Amsterdam? https://www.newyorkpizza.nl/ https://www.newyorkpizza.nl/
- chinesempire 7y agoExcept that pizza has never been a poorman's food in Italy, it was a kind of bread. Still mostly is a popular inexpensive food, in many places is also a traditional food, not a delicacy as the article says. The only contribution to pizza toppings from America has been tomato, that arrived to Europe after Cristoforo Colombo went there, specifically in Central America. Before that pizza was white, but not less flavored, we have historical documents that date back pizza before the year 1000 in a place in Italy (Gaeta) which is well known for its olives (and consequently olive oil) mozzarella cheese and fresh vegetables, besides having one of the most idyllic seaside in Italian's west coast. Pizza in North America has never been a thing before late XIX century.