5 ms·

Chromecast and AirPlay are both locked down because they're fundamentally tied to DRM and no content provider is going to spend any time on a platform that does

Chromecast and AirPlay are both locked down because they're fundamentally tied to DRM and no content provider is going to spend any time on a platform that doesn't have strong L1 DRM.

alkonaut 7y ago
And it works the other way too: as a consumer I don't care about whether something is open or not, if it doesn't stream the things I want to stream.
- _eht 7y ago
  Consider caring.
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    I do care. I just care less about openness than convenience notice the "IF it doesn't stream...". Given two systems that work equally well, I'd pick the open one. That's rarely the case though. So I pick the polished one. I think this goes for most consumers.
- the_gipsy 7y ago
  It affects consumers, though. Closed platforms work against consumers' interest way too often.
- _jal 7y ago
  You start caring when 'your' devices are suborned into a proxy fight against their actual owner's competitors.
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    No. I care about both convenience and openness. At some point perhaps the proxy fight makes the producs inconvenient? Perhaps even less convenient than the open alternative? At that point consumers might reconsider. Not until then.
- diffeomorphism 7y ago
  On the other hand the non-streaming downloaded movies/music/games etc. will stop working when the company loses interest in providing the DRM servers. See Microsoft's PlaysForSure, ultraviolet, .... Or they "work" but only in low resolution because your HDCP version is not good enough. If the pirated version is objectively better, then something is wrong with your product.
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    Consumers in general have no idea whether their offline media is dependent on DRM services so it’s an inconvenience they’ll only know when it’s too late. I agree it’s bad but I also think it’s a problem that disappeared when people stopped handling offline media. My convenience choice (and most I assume these days) is to completely skip offline/non-streamed media apart from what I create myself.
    - diffeomorphism 7y ago
      In contrast with online media you can be certain that it depends on DRM services. So it is less that it disappeared and more that it is now extremely widespread. Sure, it is convenient until your software/hardware is no longer supported (same HDCP problems, codecs, DRM schemes), 4k is only available on... , the monthly rent increases, it is now bundled with Amazon Prime Plus Ultra, the company pulls an Adobe in Venezuela, the company gets bought by Comcast, the company goes bankrupt, ... . For movies you unfortunately don't have much choice, but for games, ebooks and music you can find DRM free stores.
      - alkonaut 7y ago
        It's the same storey with all products. Of course I'd prefer just buying DRM free games, avoiding single player games that require connecting to services that can be down (looking at you Origin) etc. But the price and the product itself (the game, move, tv-series or whatever) is the deciding factor. There is never going to be enough people choosing services based on technical reaosns and not only content+price.
BiteCode_dev 7y ago
As vlc proved before, you can be open and play drm protected content. Some countries make it illegal, but France doesn't so I'd be happy to have such device.
- jonas21 7y ago
  The VLC docs say "VLC, like all open source media players, cannot play [DRM] protected files", so I always assumed it wasn't possible without stripping the DRM yourself. Does it work now? [1] https://wiki.videolan.org/Digital_Restrictions_Management/ https://wiki.videolan.org/Digital_Restrictions_Management/
  - m-p-3 7y ago
    It does strip the DRM on DVDs out of the box, and there are ways to add support for AACS decryption (Blu-Ray).
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  And content providers do not directly support vlc. As log as you reverse engineer stuff, you can support DRM on anything (at least in most countries), but do not expect it to be a successful platform. We really need reasonable copyright laws.
ehsankia 7y ago
Honest question, can it not be both? Can it not have an open side and a closed side for DRM content? Similar to browsers for example.
- guyzero 7y ago
  L1 DRM requires a secured channel all the way from the app layer to the hardware. No DRM vendor is going to offer their solution on something like Linux. You can't even watch Netflix in 4K in a browser - it's only available on secured dedicated video playback devices or directly in TVs.
  - floo 7y ago
    You can watch 4K Netflix in Edge, which I would call browser. But the point still stands, only works with supported hardware and proprietary software. https://help.netflix.com/en/node/13444 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/13444
    - guyzero 7y ago
      I did not know that! I thought it was only in the app. I stand corrected.

Chromecast and AirPlay are both locked down because they're fundamentally tied to DRM and no content provider is going to spend any time on a platform that doesn't have strong L1 DRM.

alkonaut 7y ago

And it works the other way too: as a consumer I don't care about whether something is open or not, if it doesn't stream the things I want to stream.

_eht 7y ago
Consider caring.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  I do care. I just care less about openness than convenience notice the "IF it doesn't stream...". Given two systems that work equally well, I'd pick the open one. That's rarely the case though. So I pick the polished one. I think this goes for most consumers.
the_gipsy 7y ago
It affects consumers, though. Closed platforms work against consumers' interest way too often.
_jal 7y ago
You start caring when 'your' devices are suborned into a proxy fight against their actual owner's competitors.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  No. I care about both convenience and openness. At some point perhaps the proxy fight makes the producs inconvenient? Perhaps even less convenient than the open alternative? At that point consumers might reconsider. Not until then.
diffeomorphism 7y ago
On the other hand the non-streaming downloaded movies/music/games etc. will stop working when the company loses interest in providing the DRM servers. See Microsoft's PlaysForSure, ultraviolet, .... Or they "work" but only in low resolution because your HDCP version is not good enough. If the pirated version is objectively better, then something is wrong with your product.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  Consumers in general have no idea whether their offline media is dependent on DRM services so it’s an inconvenience they’ll only know when it’s too late. I agree it’s bad but I also think it’s a problem that disappeared when people stopped handling offline media. My convenience choice (and most I assume these days) is to completely skip offline/non-streamed media apart from what I create myself.
  - diffeomorphism 7y ago
    In contrast with online media you can be certain that it depends on DRM services. So it is less that it disappeared and more that it is now extremely widespread. Sure, it is convenient until your software/hardware is no longer supported (same HDCP problems, codecs, DRM schemes), 4k is only available on... , the monthly rent increases, it is now bundled with Amazon Prime Plus Ultra, the company pulls an Adobe in Venezuela, the company gets bought by Comcast, the company goes bankrupt, ... . For movies you unfortunately don't have much choice, but for games, ebooks and music you can find DRM free stores.
    - alkonaut 7y ago
      It's the same storey with all products. Of course I'd prefer just buying DRM free games, avoiding single player games that require connecting to services that can be down (looking at you Origin) etc. But the price and the product itself (the game, move, tv-series or whatever) is the deciding factor. There is never going to be enough people choosing services based on technical reaosns and not only content+price.

BiteCode_dev 7y ago

As vlc proved before, you can be open and play drm protected content. Some countries make it illegal, but France doesn't so I'd be happy to have such device.

jonas21 7y ago
The VLC docs say "VLC, like all open source media players, cannot play [DRM] protected files", so I always assumed it wasn't possible without stripping the DRM yourself. Does it work now? [1] https://wiki.videolan.org/Digital_Restrictions_Management/ https://wiki.videolan.org/Digital_Restrictions_Management/
- m-p-3 7y ago
  It does strip the DRM on DVDs out of the box, and there are ways to add support for AACS decryption (Blu-Ray).
marcosdumay 7y ago
And content providers do not directly support vlc. As log as you reverse engineer stuff, you can support DRM on anything (at least in most countries), but do not expect it to be a successful platform. We really need reasonable copyright laws.

ehsankia 7y ago

Honest question, can it not be both? Can it not have an open side and a closed side for DRM content? Similar to browsers for example.

guyzero 7y ago
L1 DRM requires a secured channel all the way from the app layer to the hardware. No DRM vendor is going to offer their solution on something like Linux. You can't even watch Netflix in 4K in a browser - it's only available on secured dedicated video playback devices or directly in TVs.
- floo 7y ago
  You can watch 4K Netflix in Edge, which I would call browser. But the point still stands, only works with supported hardware and proprietary software. https://help.netflix.com/en/node/13444 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/13444
  - guyzero 7y ago
    I did not know that! I thought it was only in the app. I stand corrected.