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I didn’t read the article but I’ve worked for one of these companies that was a startup and have a local mattress company as a client. So a little perspective.
by 135792468 7y ago
I didn’t read the article but I’ve worked for one of these companies that was a startup and have a local mattress company as a client. So a little perspective.
These companies are all marketing companies. There is no “science” they literally get rolls of foam from foam makers, throw them on in layers and try to find the right combo. I was there, I’ve done it myself.
The companies that end up winning have fantastic marketing, like purple, or were early, like Casper.
Markup for foam mattresses in general is close to 2000%. Average foam cost for a king mattress was <$50. The old school mattress companies are close to The same which is why they have stores on every corner.
The industry is dirty as hell and as cut throat as they come.
As far as the returns, a reputable company will send the Salvation Army or local equivalent to pick up the mattress and it becomes a tax write off for the company. Otherwise like others have said they will tell you to keep it. No sense bringing it back to the warehouse and in a lot of places it is illegal to resell a mattress.
AMA if you want. Fascinating industry.
- mikepurvis 7y agoIndeed. And on top of those hundreds of marketing companies pretending to be mattress companies is the even weirder world of online mattress reviewers, who are all ensnared in a tangle of kickbacks and referrer fees and endorsements. Fast Company had a great piece on it a few years ago if you want a taste: https://www.fastcompany.com/3065928/sleepopolis-casper-bloggers-lawsuits-underside-of-the-mattress-wars https://www.fastcompany.com/3065928/sleepopolis-casper-blogg...
- jmpz 7y agoIt's worth reading the article to get context before commenting. What experience do you have to assert "These companies are all marketing companies. There is no “science” they literally get rolls of foam from foam makers, throw them on in layers and try to find the right combo. I was there, I’ve done it myself."
- twunde 7y agohttps://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/18/there-are-now-175-online-mattress-companiesand-you-cant-tell-them-apart.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/18/there-are-now-175-online-mat... mentions that most of the online companies outsource their design and production to one of 4 producers.
- egdod 7y agoAny thoughts on why markup stays so high if the industry is actually cutthroat? Competition should be driving margin way down.
- kazinator 7y agoCould depend on where the markup is and whose margin. If all those retailers are themselves buying from a small number of suppliers, they could be paying a lot of that markup, while their own margin is razor thin due to cutting each others' throats.
- Zimahl 7y agoI'm not OP, but I'd guess its because there is a really limited market for mattresses. People of course need and want them, but the turnover is (or can be) a very long time. I have a mattress in our guest bedroom that I used in college, over 20 years ago. It could probably be replaced, but will probably only get replaced with our main mattress when we replace it. It's fine for the minimal guests we have or when my wife or I sleep in it when we are sick (and don't want to keep the other awake). So for mattresses you really can't afford low margins if you want to stay in business. I can't imagine mattress stores sell more than several mattresses a month. As for why Casper and Purple mattresses are so much when you are supposedly removing the middle-man (the physical stores), I'm not sure. Because they can? I don't really understand why someone would buy one of their mattresses that you can't test out at a store, when you can pay the same price at a store and test out all your options.
- hnick 7y agoSaid another way, none of us need to buy mattresses often enough that we are mattress-buying-experts, so we're chumps easily taken advantage of. This could apply to cars (and it does a bit) but the higher price and social factor makes people understand them more. Mattresses are just cheap enough (with just enough "bargains") that it's easier to just get it over with. For your last point I'm from Australia so our brands are different but we have plenty of the online foam mattresses. I got one because mattress stores felt a lot like a car sales lot last time - clingy, pressure tactics from someone with a massive information advantage. The online companies all had full refund policies so there's limited risk apart from time.
- nradov 7y agoExactly. If you want to save money on a foam mattress you can literally just buy one or two pieces of industrial foam and cut them to fit your bed. There's no special material, no magic formula.
- sgustard 7y agoIs the mattress industry significantly different from furniture in general? In terms of rarity of purchase, huge markups, cheap raw materials, different brands at every store, and so on? Back when I listened to the radio, there were literally mattress store ads multiple times an hour, all day every day. Sleep Train, etc. Is that the key to their "fantastic marketing?"
- sjg007 7y agoYes. Furniture is the worst. You have to buy something high end to get any sort of quality, especially couches. This will sound crazy but I have a very expensive couch that was made in the 1970s and it is perfect. I also have a 1k sectional couch from Ashley's and it is absolutely terrible. Now I could probably fix the sectional with some diy hacks to firm it up but I don't have the skill. But that super expensive heirloom just keeps going.
- ip26 7y agoYeah, furniture is really frustrating. High end luxury or made-for-the-dumpster junk. As I like to call it, the vanishing middle market.
- saalweachter 7y agoThere's definitely a middle to the furniture market... it's just expensive enough most people assume it's the high end.
- koolba 7y agoThe middle market for quality durable goods is buying used quality furniture at estate sales.
- blaser-waffle 7y agoThe low end market keeps growing because it's all people can afford. Because salaries are not keeping up with productivity, and outside of white collar jobs, are struggling to keep up with inflation. They assume it's high end because, to them, it is.
- croissants 7y agoHow should people buy mattresses, or mattress-like products, to avoid this 2000% markup?
- _abattoir 7y agobuy a $30 camping sleeping pad
- Retric 7y agoIKEA for example sells a lot of mattresses under 150$. Under that you can just by foam pads, but the biggest savings is simply avoiding mattress stores or companies. If you like pillow tops or those egg shell foam pads you can also just buy them separately.
- koolba 7y ago... and you can still return it if you’re not satisfied! Plus you get to grab a few $.50 hot dogs while you’re there.
- sjg007 7y agoOne interesting diy hack I read about is to put insulation or sound proofing around your dishwasher. Basically $20 in insulation can turn an old dishwasher or a $200 dishwasher into something super quiet.
- ramraj07 7y agoI've slept on a 150 dollar Ikea for years and I've slept on a leesa. Maybe these conspiracy theories are true, but the Leesa is much more comfortable than the cheap Ikea. Ikea also has more expensive substantial mattress options, but it looks like they approach the same price range anyway. So what's your real suggestion then? Sleep on the floor in a sleeping bag?
- sumedh 7y agoHave you done a blind test, can you figure out which one is Ikea and which one is not just by sleeping on them? The test should be done when both the mattress are new.
- jbarciauskas 7y agoCOGS for Casper is ~50%, which doesn't quite line up with your $50. I suppose if you mean $50 in raw materials, plus construction costs, then fine, but that doesn't get you to 20x markup. The margin isn't that crazy. Typical retail markup is 30%.
- werber 7y agoIs there any documentation on any of the costs? These figures are so different
- karim 7y agoThat's straight from their S-1, page 6: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1598674/000104746920000166/a2240404zs-1.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1598674/000104746920...
- forgotmypw16 7y agoDo you have any opinions on off-gassing?
- pauljurczak 7y agoDon't plan to sleep on it right after you take it out of the box. Give it a few days in a well ventilated room - open the window at least a bit. If you can keep it on the balcony, it will work even better.
- 135792468 7y agoAgree with this. Tested one of the most popular brands and it was at least 5 days before my wife didn’t smell the gas
- noman-land 7y agoWhere can I get the bulk foam that mattress companies use? I'd happily cut my own mattress.
- durkie 7y agoWe've made custom cushions from foam we got from https://www.thefoamfactory.com/ https://www.thefoamfactory.com/ (no affiliation). They apparently do have "mattresses", but also just stock a bunch of foam that they can ship to you and you can cut to dimension.
- Operyl 7y agoI imagine it’s one of those things that’s only cheap when you have committed to ordering a ton of the product, frankly.
- war1025 7y agoWe made basically a futon mattress out of wool several years ago. Has been holding up great. If you're not afraid to get creative, there's not really all that much to a bed. Especially if you get away from the coil spring kind.
- 135792468 7y agoThere are plenty of foam suppliers in the US and probably every country, most of them will sell you rolls of whatever you want and plenty will let you come do it in the factory.
- hef19898 7y agoMaybe off topic, but isn't that true for a lot of so-called tech start-ups in general? E.g. companies like Voi or bird? At least from the outside it looks a lot like the company with the biggest marketing budget and best marketing team wins. So basically the company that raises the most VC money wins. So a different kind of marketing. One example I know that played out exactlly like that, Flixbus. The operations part comes from a company, meinfernbus.de, which was acquired by Flixbus (officially they merged) after Flixbus won the marketing battle over customers and had more VC money. The same happened in other countries, e.g. Austria. And Flixbus was totally aware of that and had a marketing strategy to match. Like buying AdWords against their competition and such things. Valid strategy, but by no means a tech business.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- johnchristopher 7y agoHow do you choose the right mattress for you then ?
- paulddraper 7y agoThanks for the perspective! > Markup for foam mattresses in general is close to 2000%. Why is that markup stable? What would stop a competitor from selling good $350 mattresses like candy? Or are there companies that do that and I just don't know about them?