13 ms·

Indian police open case against hundreds in Kashmir for using VPN

329 points by jmsflknr 7y ago

hprotagonist 7y ago
The most populous democracy on earth, everybody!
- jdfellow 7y ago
  Yeah, one that's nuclear armed and constantly on the brink of war with its nuclear armed neighbor. A bit worrying, no?
  - yellowapple 7y ago
    Turns out Civilization bugs are more prescient than we thought.
- petermcneeley 7y ago
  Here is a paradox then. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/11/19/more-indians-support-military-rule-pew-research-center.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/11/19/mor...
  - hprotagonist 7y ago
    The American Conversation is an argument, after all, and way worse than our fear of error or anarchy or Gomorrahl decadence is our fear of theocracy or autocracy or any ideology whose project is not to argue or persuade but to adjourn the whole debate /sine die/.It's this logic (and perhaps this alone) that keeps protofascism or royalism or Maoism or any sort of really dire extremism from achieving mainstream legitimacy in the US---how does one vote for No More Voting?
ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago
Can anyone contribute a source which doesn't break EU regulations by forcing me to accept cookies?
- bhaavan 7y ago
  In this context, this is a very funny "first world problem".
- all_blue_chucks 7y ago
  Right Click -> Open link in new private window
- macinjosh 7y ago
  > by forcing me to accept cookies I really don't understand this mindset of a default behavior (e.g. use of cookies) is equivalent to _forcing_ something on someone. You have lots of choices around cookies because the program that stores and shares them is under your own control. Which sites you visit is under your control. Your Internet connection is under your control. God knows why we need a nanny state that represents a small minority of the world to decide how the world wide web should work.
- hadrien01 7y ago
  Blocking Javascript seems to be enough to read the article
- Spare_account 7y ago
  https://outline.com/https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/18/indian-police-open-case-against-hundreds-in-kashmir-for-using-vpn/ https://outline.com/https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/18/indian...
  - PeterisP 7y ago
    "Something went wrong. We're sorry. This page failed to Outline."
- fennecfoxen 7y ago
aarongray 7y ago
It's really too bad that the two rising tech countries - China and India - have such a third-world approach to censorship on the Internet. You would think they would want to mimic the US's successful formula in hopes of building their presence as a tech powerhouse, but in this area they don't seem to be doing that.
- AWildC182 7y ago
  Just because it's successful in the US doesn't stop politicians from trying to enact the same measures here as well. We need to continue to fight back at every turn such that we don't go down the same path.
- _jal 7y ago
  > mimic the US's successful formula You mean the one involving outsourcing IP law enforcement to private cartels amid increasing calls to remove 230 protections from public-facing internet companies?
  - alunchbox 7y ago
    Can you elaborate on this a bit more? I'm intrigued yet confused from your comment.
    - heavyset_go 7y ago
      People that don't like it when freedom of association is exercised by website owners want to chip away at safe harbor provisions such that all of the internet is turned into a virtual Disneyland where any objectionable content is banned out of fear of criminal liability for hosting it.
  - duxup 7y ago
    I feel like anytime someone mentions "man it works in this place" someone has a specific gripe about a case where it doesn't work. Yes some things need a lot of work, but it's hardly "cut off everyone from the internet" level... not even close.
- 7y ago
arsalanb 7y ago
When I left Kashmir a few months ago, my phone and all its contents were checked by Indian police at the airport. They asked me to unlock and checked photos, WhatsApp texts, etc. Random arrests and extra-judicial killings of Kashmiris by the Indian state is a quite regular occurrence. A laughable narrative around how they were "Pakistan sponsored terrorists" is usually spun by the media/police nexus.
- radicaldreamer 7y ago
  Did they manually browse through the data or download it to a computer for further analysis later?
  - arsalanb 7y ago
    No, they just manually browsed it. Both on my computer (which is a practice that's been there for >7-9 years) and mobiles. Because of the media/telecom gag my non-Kashmir friends find it hard to believe absurd laws imposed by the Indian state, like AFSPA, PSA, etc
- pjg 7y ago
  Is this functionally different from the US immigration authorities asking to inspect a person's social media content on their cellphone/laptop when entering the US ? Not just from "hostile" countries like Iran but occasionally from visitors from Canada ? I know at least one Canadian born citizen (had an Islamic name ) who was asked to reveal their social media profile and had their smartphone searched
  - dickjocke 7y ago
    OP is saying he was leaving Kashmir. Generally US authorities ask this stuff when you arrive.
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  Do you have any idea what would happen if you factory reset your phone just before passing a border?
RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
This is a reminder that without physical security, electronic security is pretty much worthless. The best encryption won't save you from rubberhose cryptanalysis where they beat you until you reveal your key. Clever circumvention technologies such as VPN won't save you when they arrest your for using circumvention technologies. These are all good things, but we in tech, oftentimes think we can program our way out of bad physical governance. We can't! We need now more than ever to engage with everyone to make sure that we have good physical governments.
- PureParadigm 7y ago
  Perhaps there is also the need for untraceable/hidden tools for censorship circumvention. This may involve masquerading as normal traffic. I've heard of specialized hidden censorship circumvention tools that do this by tunneling information though protocols like ping or DNS which won't look as suspicious as a VPN. Of course, for wide deployment this will become a game of cat and mouse, but I don't see any reason it would be impossible to make a good solution that is very hard to detect.
  - gen3 7y ago
    Tor has setting that hide your data to make it look inconspicuous. The issue with tor is its speed and ease of use in my opinion. https://2019.www.torproject.org/docs/pluggable-transports https://2019.www.torproject.org/docs/pluggable-transports
  - Klonoar 7y ago
    Your intentions are really good, but this kind of comment is _exactly_ what the person you're responding to was talking about - you're just playing another cat-and-mouse game and not solving the real issue. The world is hitting a breaking point where this has to be solved by fixing governments/legislation/what have you, not by programming more. (Edit: a typo)
    - godelski 7y ago
      We're on a tech form. We aren't political experts, we're tech experts. While we should be aware and discuss the political issues at the end of the day we aren't experts in that. But being experts in tech, we can approach the problem from that end. This isn't a "I'm a hammer therefore every problem is a nail" this is "It is a complicated problem that involves nails, screws, rivets, welding, etc. I am good at using a hammer, so let me take care of the nails".
lousken 7y ago
https://archive.is/Gf3Pg https://archive.is/Gf3Pg if anyone blocks guce.advertising.com
definitelyRobot 7y ago
As a young tech person in India, this stuff makes me so angry. The ruling party here (BJP) doesn't have any real competition. Which means they can get away with pretty much anything. They've banned VPNs. They'll chuck you in prison if you speak against the government or a politician. Then they'll brand you as an "anti-nationalist" and openly say to their supporters that you deserve to be shot. Facial recognition is now being used to identify protestors. Bots and deepfakes are being used to spread propoganda. Many people are upset, but there's nothing we can do. We can't speak out without fear of being reprimanded. We can vote for other parties, but there's no way that they'll ever win. The majority of the population has blind faith in BJP. The only demographic that appears to realise the implications well enough is the youth in urban areas - a very insignificant fraction of the nation's population. Even the media is afraid to speak out against BJP because if they do then they get attacked by physical and virtual mobs. It's a shame. So much potential.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  They say "anti-nationalist" is a bad thing? Wow.
  - legolas2412 7y ago
    They're calling you anti-national. Basically a traitor.
    - _jgdh 7y ago
      For Americans, this is identical to when Sen. Joseph McCarthy was branding people "Unamerican". The BJP have succeeded in establishing their brand of hatred and stupidity as the only valid form of patriotism.
      - _-david-_ 7y ago
        >this is identical to when Sen. Joseph McCarthy was branding people "Unamerican". Communists want to abolish countries so saying that communists are Unamerican seems to me to be an accurate statement.
CodeSheikh 7y ago
Remind me again, does India have a democratic government or an authoritarian regime?
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  A democratically-elected authoritarian regime.
  - thbr99 7y ago
    Literacy is key to eradicate authoritarian BJP in India. Because the last standing state is the most literate state in India which is Kerala.
    - _jgdh 7y ago
      I don't think this is true. Some of the most educated and wealthy people support the BJP, fascist though the party may be. Look at the vote split in the recent Delhi election. All upper caste voters flocked to the BJP by margins of 20%+. Dalits and Muslims voted AAP. Upper castes are disproportionately wealthy and educated. My theory for this is that such people (relatives of mine included, sadly) are just higher on Maslow's heirarchy of needs. At the bottom you need roti-kapda-makaan (food, clothing, shelter), followed by bijli-sadak-paani (electricity, roads, water) and higher up health and education. If you've had all of this all your life, you take them for granted. When Modi comes along and peddles a grand vision to Make India Great Again, like it was in Vedic times, that captures the imagination and inspires us. When the BJP tells us that all of our problems are because of Muslims and that we need to put them in their place to fix everything, we're only too willing to listen.
      - happygolucky_in 7y ago
        This is pretty spot on. Something as simple and basic as the Maslow's hierarchy explains the voting pattern in India. It is no coincidence that rising middle class has coincided with the rise in BJP's electoral returns. With their basic needs met, their worry now is to protect their Gods, reconstructing a temple that was supposedly demolished 500 years ago and goddam cows! They really do not care about the plight of the less fortunate around them. Concepts like freedom of expression, individual liberty, equality etc. are of not much importance to them.
A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
Governments everywhere do not like secrecy. Unless, naturally, it is their secrets. Everyone else should, ideally, sit at the table with their hands palm up and on the said table. I wish it was an isolated incident, but the more politicians you hear, the more it becomes apparent that it is all about the side you are on.
rabbitsfoot8 7y ago
This is very sad to see. Privacy is a right.
LinuxBender 7y ago
This is going to sound antiquated and tedious, so please bear with me. Rather than using a VPN/Tor/etc. which can be easily detected or requires a lot of OpSec to get right, consider having people in other countries that can help bundle archives of data for you. Ship the data back and forth over something non conspicuous and not subject to MITM proxies such as SFTP to AWS or one of the low-rent VPS providers. Use a ram based linux distribution in India to create the posts, tar the data up, SFTP to another country. A friend in that country outside of India pulls down the tarball and posts text and videos to social media for you. When you are done uploading your tarball, reboot, and all the data is gone from your end. You can boot back into whatever government approved OS image is acceptable. If you set the filesystem permissions right on the SFTP server, then even if they beat the username / pw out of you, then all they will find is cat videos on the chroot SFTP server. Your friend will see the tarball of objectionable content in a hidden directory. Remember to sanitize EXIF data from pictures first as that has your GPS location and in some cases your cell phone serial number. Someone will suggest ssh keys over password, but they should not in this case. No data must be persisted on the India side of this scenario. I will be the first to admit, this process is tedious. I am only suggesting it as a last resort when all else fails.
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  ssh could be used for proxy, so it might be marked as a VPN by ISP hardware. Better way would be to use something very popular like Gmail or Google Drive. I hope that chances are small for Google to co-operate with Indian government.
  - LinuxBender 7y ago
    One of the reasons I suggest SFTP is that contractors in India are very often asked to transfer data to US and EU companies this way. It is often required for contractors to do their job. You can disable port forwarding on the SFTP server in the event that government officials want to verify it is not a proxy. If the VPS used is AWS, it is even less conspicuous. The admins of the account for the VM must be outside of India. The server can even contain work related files to make it legit. This process is predicated on the idea that you want to get the word out about things occurring in your country and that you do not need to take credit for it.
nu2ycombinator 7y ago
Misleading Title. It is not about using VPN but about propagating rumors. This is a law in India, as there were instances of riots caused by social media rumor. Actual News ----------- The FIR has been registered while taking cognisance of the social media posts by miscreants by using different VPNs, which are propagating rumours with regard to the current security scenario in the Kashmir valley, secessionist ideology and glorifying terrorists, the police said. I am young Techie from India too and I totally support it.
- 1ris 7y ago
  Suppressing secession is tyranny. India should know a thing or two about that.
  - shripadk 7y ago
    No one suppressed secession. There have been secession movements not just in Kashmir but in North East too. That doesn't give anyone the authority to conduct terror attacks on fellow citizens. When things go beyond a point of no return then force is needed. Since the day India Abrogated Article 370 there hasn't been one major terror attack in Kashmir. That is good enough for the rest of India that was sick and tired of hearing Civilians and Army men being targeted by terrorists in Kashmir ever since the Kashmiri Pandit exodus in the 1990s. If you want to learn a thing or two about India, you better read up on Exodus and Genocide Kashmiri Pandits and how they are now refugees in their own country. Then you have the rights to lecture Indians on what is democracy and what is tyranny. We have been the most accommodative over the years and our patience has been tested far beyond permissible limit. India already went through a terrible Partition in 1947 on Religious lines where Muslims did not want to live with Hindus. Did that solve the problem? Nope. We already had one Partition. Won't allow more. And we shouldn't even be justifying it. It is surprising to me that people here question the decisions of a Sovereign Nation on what it should and should not do. Would you be willing to have your Nation broken up into multiple pieces because some Tom, Dick or Harry doesn't like the way it is now? Don't be ridiculous!
    - selimthegrim 7y ago
thbr99 7y ago
The India government is taking action against spreading misinformation & fake news via VPN enabled social media. What is wrong here. Title is misleading and sensationalist.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 7y ago
  For one, it's unconstitutional. From the article: > Mishi Choudhary, executive director of New Delhi-based Software Law and Freedom Centre, said that the authority did not need to chase people who are using VPNs, and should restore internet access like any other democratic society. “Any alleged rumors can be addressed by putting out accurate and more information through the same social media platforms. Content-based restrictions on speech can only be allowed within the restrictions established by the Constitution and not in an ad hoc manner,” she said.
  - shripadk 7y ago
    It isn't unconstitutional. Quote the Act that prohibits the Government from taking precautionary measures. We are dealing with a region that has seen countless terror attacks since the Exodus of Kashmiri Pandits in the 1990s. For the first time since August 5th there has been peace in the valley with no major terror attacks. If restrictions of communications helps attain peace then so be it. I rather communications be cut than have lives lost needlessly because some deranged lunatic decided to blow himself up in the name of his Religion. And do not forget that the Pulwama Attack is still fresh in the minds of Indians.
- InitialLastName 7y ago
  What's "wrong" is that it's very difficult to tell the difference between this and "The Indian government is taking action against spreading information and news via VPN enabled social media"
  - thbr99 7y ago
    So if it's difficult to tell the difference, why celebrate one side of the story and that too by a western media which has no idea about the ground realities in Kashmir. The article is also written by someone who is not an expert in political journalism. Techcrunch should stick what it does best.
nine_zeros 7y ago
Very sad. But a great lesson for the rest of the world. Democracy with an uneducated populace is a disaster waiting to happen
- lonesword 7y ago
  So the solution would be to not have democracy until the unwashed uneducated masses become otherwise so? The East India company would've agreed with you :p
  - nine_zeros 7y ago
    No. That is stupid. The solution is to make sure that education is never skimped on. The lesson for countries like US that are cutting education in favor of tax cuts is that lack of education in a electoral democracy is a self-fulfilling disaster.
    - selimthegrim 7y ago
      This guy is the only person that understands root of entire problem being discussed in this thread. What was and is literacy rate in all of Kashmir in early 20th century and especially now in insurgent districts? Government of India and UGC are making big hue and cry about online education. How do they expect these areas to take part?
CamperBob2 7y ago
The majority of the population has blind faith in BJP. The only demographic that appears to realise the implications well enough is the youth in urban areas - a very insignificant fraction of the nation's population. Sounds all too familiar here in the US. We are effectively held hostage by rural voters, and the obvious remedy for this state of affairs -- abolishing the Electoral College -- will mean that those voters have the same legitimate grounds for complaint against us. At some point we have to start re-evaluating the conventional wisdom that democracy is the best possible form of government at all possible scales.
- TallGuyShort 7y ago
  "held hostage by rural voters" is an interesting choice of words considering they already feel the same way. There are already movements in a number of states with a lot of local support to have rural areas that are politically dominated by urban voters secede and join other states that more closely align with their values. I don't know why state governments don't let that happen more freely if they aren't actually trying to be the ones holding others hostage.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    >I don't know why state governments don't let that happen more freely if they aren't actually trying to be the ones holding others hostage. Because the people who run governments often think in terms of maximizing power because that is what it takes to be a successful career politician. When you think that way of course it seems stupid to give up a bunch of people and land who pay taxes to you, count toward your population but aren't actually numerous enough to over-rule the majority party even if the presence of those people is not liked by them and your base. While no particular leader may see themselves as holding the minority group hostage political map lines never get re drawn because there are bigger fires to fight and broaching an topic involving re-drawing the political map has many, many ways to go wrong and maybe a couple to go right.
    - TallGuyShort 7y ago
      Exactly. If somebody tries to leave a building and you won't let them, they're not the hostage taker. If you really don't like rural voters and think they're just a burden, prove it, and support parting ways. Oh and fuck the silent downvoters. Get over yourselves already and stop pretending you understand the people you disagree with.
Bang2Bay 7y ago
kashmir to me is war zone. As you know everything is fair in war.
satya71 7y ago
I think India is well on its way to becoming hybrid regime in the Democracy Index. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/01/22/global-democracy-has-another-bad-year https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/01/22/global-d...
amriksohata 7y ago
If Pakistan had just listened to the UN and actioned first step of the security councils resolution 47, we would not be in this position.
_jgdh 7y ago
Quick summary of the situation in India - In 2014, Narendra Modi was elected Prime Minister on a plank of "development for all". Since the BJP's pedigree was one of Hindu nationalism (aka Hindutva), this was a change welcomed by many. He had a good track record of development as Chief Minister (equivalent of Governor in America). - After a couple of major missteps (invalidating all high value currency notes, tax changes), growth started to slow. While it had been 7-9% between 2004 and 2014, it was now 5% or less. - The BJP started to capture and subvert institutions that make India function as a democracy including the Courts[1] and the Election Commission[2]. They intimidated and coerced the media into toeing the BJP line [3]. - In 2019, the BJP won re-election. In this campaign, there was no talk of development (because there was precious little of it), no discussion of rampant unemployment. The BJP tried to convince us that the main issue was Pakistan (it wasn't) and how they were an existential threat to the nation (they weren't) and how Modi had "taught them a lesson" (he hadn't). - Since then, Hindutva has made a big comeback. It is now priority #1, above unemployment, above low growth. - The BJP is staking everything on killing the separatist movement in Kashmir and removing all special privileges of Kashmiris, building a temple over a destroyed mosque, and removing illegal Muslim immigrants. Though seemingly disparate, all of these facilitate the broader goal of establishing a Hindu Rashtra - a nation of Hindus, by Hindus, for Hindus. One where the secular Constitution of India is no longer valid. - To enforce this, the BJP has resorted to totalitarian tactics, including the effective house arrest of millions of Kashmiris, coupled with an internet blackout. Thanks to the aforementioned capture of the Courts, the Supreme Court has done nothing to right this injustice [4]. That's where we are now. On a personal note, writing this down broke my heart. I love my country and I grieve to see what is being done to it. [1] - https://www.telegraphindia.com/opinion/judging-the-judges/cid/1438565 https://www.telegraphindia.com/opinion/judging-the-judges/ci... [2] - https://frontline.thehindu.com/cover-story/article29618205.ece https://frontline.thehindu.com/cover-story/article29618205.e... [3] - https://thewire.in/media/punya-prasun-bajpai-bjp-media https://thewire.in/media/punya-prasun-bajpai-bjp-media [4] - https://scroll.in/article/935432/analysis-supreme-court-orders-in-kashmir-petitions-undermine-the-spirit-of-habeas-corpus https://scroll.in/article/935432/analysis-supreme-court-orde...
- ra7 7y ago
  > building a temple over a destroyed mosque Wasn't this a Supreme Court order both parties accepted? The BJP isn't forcing this, although this has been their goal for decades and they will certainly claim credit for it.
0xFFFE 7y ago
These discussions quickly devolve into political mudslinging , I wish there was way to filter out such posts.

329 points by jmsflknr 7y ago

hprotagonist 7y ago

The most populous democracy on earth, everybody!

jdfellow 7y ago
Yeah, one that's nuclear armed and constantly on the brink of war with its nuclear armed neighbor. A bit worrying, no?
- yellowapple 7y ago
  Turns out Civilization bugs are more prescient than we thought.
petermcneeley 7y ago
Here is a paradox then. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/11/19/more-indians-support-military-rule-pew-research-center.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/11/19/mor...
- hprotagonist 7y ago
  The American Conversation is an argument, after all, and way worse than our fear of error or anarchy or Gomorrahl decadence is our fear of theocracy or autocracy or any ideology whose project is not to argue or persuade but to adjourn the whole debate /sine die/.It's this logic (and perhaps this alone) that keeps protofascism or royalism or Maoism or any sort of really dire extremism from achieving mainstream legitimacy in the US---how does one vote for No More Voting?

ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago

Can anyone contribute a source which doesn't break EU regulations by forcing me to accept cookies?

bhaavan 7y ago
In this context, this is a very funny "first world problem".
all_blue_chucks 7y ago
Right Click -> Open link in new private window
macinjosh 7y ago
> by forcing me to accept cookies I really don't understand this mindset of a default behavior (e.g. use of cookies) is equivalent to _forcing_ something on someone. You have lots of choices around cookies because the program that stores and shares them is under your own control. Which sites you visit is under your control. Your Internet connection is under your control. God knows why we need a nanny state that represents a small minority of the world to decide how the world wide web should work.
hadrien01 7y ago
Blocking Javascript seems to be enough to read the article
Spare_account 7y ago
https://outline.com/https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/18/indian-police-open-case-against-hundreds-in-kashmir-for-using-vpn/ https://outline.com/https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/18/indian...
- PeterisP 7y ago
  "Something went wrong. We're sorry. This page failed to Outline."
fennecfoxen 7y ago

aarongray 7y ago

It's really too bad that the two rising tech countries - China and India - have such a third-world approach to censorship on the Internet. You would think they would want to mimic the US's successful formula in hopes of building their presence as a tech powerhouse, but in this area they don't seem to be doing that.

AWildC182 7y ago
Just because it's successful in the US doesn't stop politicians from trying to enact the same measures here as well. We need to continue to fight back at every turn such that we don't go down the same path.
_jal 7y ago
> mimic the US's successful formula You mean the one involving outsourcing IP law enforcement to private cartels amid increasing calls to remove 230 protections from public-facing internet companies?
- alunchbox 7y ago
  Can you elaborate on this a bit more? I'm intrigued yet confused from your comment.
  - heavyset_go 7y ago
    People that don't like it when freedom of association is exercised by website owners want to chip away at safe harbor provisions such that all of the internet is turned into a virtual Disneyland where any objectionable content is banned out of fear of criminal liability for hosting it.
- duxup 7y ago
  I feel like anytime someone mentions "man it works in this place" someone has a specific gripe about a case where it doesn't work. Yes some things need a lot of work, but it's hardly "cut off everyone from the internet" level... not even close.
7y ago

arsalanb 7y ago

When I left Kashmir a few months ago, my phone and all its contents were checked by Indian police at the airport. They asked me to unlock and checked photos, WhatsApp texts, etc. Random arrests and extra-judicial killings of Kashmiris by the Indian state is a quite regular occurrence. A laughable narrative around how they were "Pakistan sponsored terrorists" is usually spun by the media/police nexus.

radicaldreamer 7y ago
Did they manually browse through the data or download it to a computer for further analysis later?
- arsalanb 7y ago
  No, they just manually browsed it. Both on my computer (which is a practice that's been there for >7-9 years) and mobiles. Because of the media/telecom gag my non-Kashmir friends find it hard to believe absurd laws imposed by the Indian state, like AFSPA, PSA, etc
pjg 7y ago
Is this functionally different from the US immigration authorities asking to inspect a person's social media content on their cellphone/laptop when entering the US ? Not just from "hostile" countries like Iran but occasionally from visitors from Canada ? I know at least one Canadian born citizen (had an Islamic name ) who was asked to reveal their social media profile and had their smartphone searched
- dickjocke 7y ago
  OP is saying he was leaving Kashmir. Generally US authorities ask this stuff when you arrive.
vbezhenar 7y ago
Do you have any idea what would happen if you factory reset your phone just before passing a border?

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago

This is a reminder that without physical security, electronic security is pretty much worthless. The best encryption won't save you from rubberhose cryptanalysis where they beat you until you reveal your key. Clever circumvention technologies such as VPN won't save you when they arrest your for using circumvention technologies. These are all good things, but we in tech, oftentimes think we can program our way out of bad physical governance. We can't! We need now more than ever to engage with everyone to make sure that we have good physical governments.

PureParadigm 7y ago
Perhaps there is also the need for untraceable/hidden tools for censorship circumvention. This may involve masquerading as normal traffic. I've heard of specialized hidden censorship circumvention tools that do this by tunneling information though protocols like ping or DNS which won't look as suspicious as a VPN. Of course, for wide deployment this will become a game of cat and mouse, but I don't see any reason it would be impossible to make a good solution that is very hard to detect.
- gen3 7y ago
  Tor has setting that hide your data to make it look inconspicuous. The issue with tor is its speed and ease of use in my opinion. https://2019.www.torproject.org/docs/pluggable-transports https://2019.www.torproject.org/docs/pluggable-transports
- Klonoar 7y ago
  Your intentions are really good, but this kind of comment is _exactly_ what the person you're responding to was talking about - you're just playing another cat-and-mouse game and not solving the real issue. The world is hitting a breaking point where this has to be solved by fixing governments/legislation/what have you, not by programming more. (Edit: a typo)
  - godelski 7y ago
    We're on a tech form. We aren't political experts, we're tech experts. While we should be aware and discuss the political issues at the end of the day we aren't experts in that. But being experts in tech, we can approach the problem from that end. This isn't a "I'm a hammer therefore every problem is a nail" this is "It is a complicated problem that involves nails, screws, rivets, welding, etc. I am good at using a hammer, so let me take care of the nails".

lousken 7y ago

https://archive.is/Gf3Pg https://archive.is/Gf3Pg if anyone blocks guce.advertising.com

definitelyRobot 7y ago

As a young tech person in India, this stuff makes me so angry. The ruling party here (BJP) doesn't have any real competition. Which means they can get away with pretty much anything. They've banned VPNs. They'll chuck you in prison if you speak against the government or a politician. Then they'll brand you as an "anti-nationalist" and openly say to their supporters that you deserve to be shot. Facial recognition is now being used to identify protestors. Bots and deepfakes are being used to spread propoganda. Many people are upset, but there's nothing we can do. We can't speak out without fear of being reprimanded. We can vote for other parties, but there's no way that they'll ever win. The majority of the population has blind faith in BJP. The only demographic that appears to realise the implications well enough is the youth in urban areas - a very insignificant fraction of the nation's population. Even the media is afraid to speak out against BJP because if they do then they get attacked by physical and virtual mobs. It's a shame. So much potential.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
They say "anti-nationalist" is a bad thing? Wow.
- legolas2412 7y ago
  They're calling you anti-national. Basically a traitor.
  - _jgdh 7y ago
    For Americans, this is identical to when Sen. Joseph McCarthy was branding people "Unamerican". The BJP have succeeded in establishing their brand of hatred and stupidity as the only valid form of patriotism.
    - _-david-_ 7y ago
      >this is identical to when Sen. Joseph McCarthy was branding people "Unamerican". Communists want to abolish countries so saying that communists are Unamerican seems to me to be an accurate statement.

CodeSheikh 7y ago

Remind me again, does India have a democratic government or an authoritarian regime?

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
A democratically-elected authoritarian regime.
- thbr99 7y ago
  Literacy is key to eradicate authoritarian BJP in India. Because the last standing state is the most literate state in India which is Kerala.
  - _jgdh 7y ago
    I don't think this is true. Some of the most educated and wealthy people support the BJP, fascist though the party may be. Look at the vote split in the recent Delhi election. All upper caste voters flocked to the BJP by margins of 20%+. Dalits and Muslims voted AAP. Upper castes are disproportionately wealthy and educated. My theory for this is that such people (relatives of mine included, sadly) are just higher on Maslow's heirarchy of needs. At the bottom you need roti-kapda-makaan (food, clothing, shelter), followed by bijli-sadak-paani (electricity, roads, water) and higher up health and education. If you've had all of this all your life, you take them for granted. When Modi comes along and peddles a grand vision to Make India Great Again, like it was in Vedic times, that captures the imagination and inspires us. When the BJP tells us that all of our problems are because of Muslims and that we need to put them in their place to fix everything, we're only too willing to listen.
    - happygolucky_in 7y ago
      This is pretty spot on. Something as simple and basic as the Maslow's hierarchy explains the voting pattern in India. It is no coincidence that rising middle class has coincided with the rise in BJP's electoral returns. With their basic needs met, their worry now is to protect their Gods, reconstructing a temple that was supposedly demolished 500 years ago and goddam cows! They really do not care about the plight of the less fortunate around them. Concepts like freedom of expression, individual liberty, equality etc. are of not much importance to them.

A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago

Governments everywhere do not like secrecy. Unless, naturally, it is their secrets. Everyone else should, ideally, sit at the table with their hands palm up and on the said table. I wish it was an isolated incident, but the more politicians you hear, the more it becomes apparent that it is all about the side you are on.

rabbitsfoot8 7y ago

This is very sad to see. Privacy is a right.

LinuxBender 7y ago

This is going to sound antiquated and tedious, so please bear with me. Rather than using a VPN/Tor/etc. which can be easily detected or requires a lot of OpSec to get right, consider having people in other countries that can help bundle archives of data for you. Ship the data back and forth over something non conspicuous and not subject to MITM proxies such as SFTP to AWS or one of the low-rent VPS providers. Use a ram based linux distribution in India to create the posts, tar the data up, SFTP to another country. A friend in that country outside of India pulls down the tarball and posts text and videos to social media for you. When you are done uploading your tarball, reboot, and all the data is gone from your end. You can boot back into whatever government approved OS image is acceptable. If you set the filesystem permissions right on the SFTP server, then even if they beat the username / pw out of you, then all they will find is cat videos on the chroot SFTP server. Your friend will see the tarball of objectionable content in a hidden directory. Remember to sanitize EXIF data from pictures first as that has your GPS location and in some cases your cell phone serial number. Someone will suggest ssh keys over password, but they should not in this case. No data must be persisted on the India side of this scenario. I will be the first to admit, this process is tedious. I am only suggesting it as a last resort when all else fails.

vbezhenar 7y ago
ssh could be used for proxy, so it might be marked as a VPN by ISP hardware. Better way would be to use something very popular like Gmail or Google Drive. I hope that chances are small for Google to co-operate with Indian government.
- LinuxBender 7y ago
  One of the reasons I suggest SFTP is that contractors in India are very often asked to transfer data to US and EU companies this way. It is often required for contractors to do their job. You can disable port forwarding on the SFTP server in the event that government officials want to verify it is not a proxy. If the VPS used is AWS, it is even less conspicuous. The admins of the account for the VM must be outside of India. The server can even contain work related files to make it legit. This process is predicated on the idea that you want to get the word out about things occurring in your country and that you do not need to take credit for it.

nu2ycombinator 7y ago

Misleading Title. It is not about using VPN but about propagating rumors. This is a law in India, as there were instances of riots caused by social media rumor. Actual News ----------- The FIR has been registered while taking cognisance of the social media posts by miscreants by using different VPNs, which are propagating rumours with regard to the current security scenario in the Kashmir valley, secessionist ideology and glorifying terrorists, the police said. I am young Techie from India too and I totally support it.

1ris 7y ago
Suppressing secession is tyranny. India should know a thing or two about that.
- shripadk 7y ago
  No one suppressed secession. There have been secession movements not just in Kashmir but in North East too. That doesn't give anyone the authority to conduct terror attacks on fellow citizens. When things go beyond a point of no return then force is needed. Since the day India Abrogated Article 370 there hasn't been one major terror attack in Kashmir. That is good enough for the rest of India that was sick and tired of hearing Civilians and Army men being targeted by terrorists in Kashmir ever since the Kashmiri Pandit exodus in the 1990s. If you want to learn a thing or two about India, you better read up on Exodus and Genocide Kashmiri Pandits and how they are now refugees in their own country. Then you have the rights to lecture Indians on what is democracy and what is tyranny. We have been the most accommodative over the years and our patience has been tested far beyond permissible limit. India already went through a terrible Partition in 1947 on Religious lines where Muslims did not want to live with Hindus. Did that solve the problem? Nope. We already had one Partition. Won't allow more. And we shouldn't even be justifying it. It is surprising to me that people here question the decisions of a Sovereign Nation on what it should and should not do. Would you be willing to have your Nation broken up into multiple pieces because some Tom, Dick or Harry doesn't like the way it is now? Don't be ridiculous!
  - selimthegrim 7y ago

thbr99 7y ago

The India government is taking action against spreading misinformation & fake news via VPN enabled social media. What is wrong here. Title is misleading and sensationalist.

bitxbitxbitcoin 7y ago
For one, it's unconstitutional. From the article: > Mishi Choudhary, executive director of New Delhi-based Software Law and Freedom Centre, said that the authority did not need to chase people who are using VPNs, and should restore internet access like any other democratic society. “Any alleged rumors can be addressed by putting out accurate and more information through the same social media platforms. Content-based restrictions on speech can only be allowed within the restrictions established by the Constitution and not in an ad hoc manner,” she said.
- shripadk 7y ago
  It isn't unconstitutional. Quote the Act that prohibits the Government from taking precautionary measures. We are dealing with a region that has seen countless terror attacks since the Exodus of Kashmiri Pandits in the 1990s. For the first time since August 5th there has been peace in the valley with no major terror attacks. If restrictions of communications helps attain peace then so be it. I rather communications be cut than have lives lost needlessly because some deranged lunatic decided to blow himself up in the name of his Religion. And do not forget that the Pulwama Attack is still fresh in the minds of Indians.
InitialLastName 7y ago
What's "wrong" is that it's very difficult to tell the difference between this and "The Indian government is taking action against spreading information and news via VPN enabled social media"
- thbr99 7y ago
  So if it's difficult to tell the difference, why celebrate one side of the story and that too by a western media which has no idea about the ground realities in Kashmir. The article is also written by someone who is not an expert in political journalism. Techcrunch should stick what it does best.

nine_zeros 7y ago

Very sad. But a great lesson for the rest of the world. Democracy with an uneducated populace is a disaster waiting to happen

lonesword 7y ago
So the solution would be to not have democracy until the unwashed uneducated masses become otherwise so? The East India company would've agreed with you :p
- nine_zeros 7y ago
  No. That is stupid. The solution is to make sure that education is never skimped on. The lesson for countries like US that are cutting education in favor of tax cuts is that lack of education in a electoral democracy is a self-fulfilling disaster.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    This guy is the only person that understands root of entire problem being discussed in this thread. What was and is literacy rate in all of Kashmir in early 20th century and especially now in insurgent districts? Government of India and UGC are making big hue and cry about online education. How do they expect these areas to take part?

CamperBob2 7y ago

The majority of the population has blind faith in BJP. The only demographic that appears to realise the implications well enough is the youth in urban areas - a very insignificant fraction of the nation's population. Sounds all too familiar here in the US. We are effectively held hostage by rural voters, and the obvious remedy for this state of affairs -- abolishing the Electoral College -- will mean that those voters have the same legitimate grounds for complaint against us. At some point we have to start re-evaluating the conventional wisdom that democracy is the best possible form of government at all possible scales.

TallGuyShort 7y ago
"held hostage by rural voters" is an interesting choice of words considering they already feel the same way. There are already movements in a number of states with a lot of local support to have rural areas that are politically dominated by urban voters secede and join other states that more closely align with their values. I don't know why state governments don't let that happen more freely if they aren't actually trying to be the ones holding others hostage.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >I don't know why state governments don't let that happen more freely if they aren't actually trying to be the ones holding others hostage. Because the people who run governments often think in terms of maximizing power because that is what it takes to be a successful career politician. When you think that way of course it seems stupid to give up a bunch of people and land who pay taxes to you, count toward your population but aren't actually numerous enough to over-rule the majority party even if the presence of those people is not liked by them and your base. While no particular leader may see themselves as holding the minority group hostage political map lines never get re drawn because there are bigger fires to fight and broaching an topic involving re-drawing the political map has many, many ways to go wrong and maybe a couple to go right.
  - TallGuyShort 7y ago
    Exactly. If somebody tries to leave a building and you won't let them, they're not the hostage taker. If you really don't like rural voters and think they're just a burden, prove it, and support parting ways. Oh and fuck the silent downvoters. Get over yourselves already and stop pretending you understand the people you disagree with.

Bang2Bay 7y ago

kashmir to me is war zone. As you know everything is fair in war.

satya71 7y ago

I think India is well on its way to becoming hybrid regime in the Democracy Index. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/01/22/global-democracy-has-another-bad-year https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/01/22/global-d...

amriksohata 7y ago

If Pakistan had just listened to the UN and actioned first step of the security councils resolution 47, we would not be in this position.

_jgdh 7y ago

Quick summary of the situation in India - In 2014, Narendra Modi was elected Prime Minister on a plank of "development for all". Since the BJP's pedigree was one of Hindu nationalism (aka Hindutva), this was a change welcomed by many. He had a good track record of development as Chief Minister (equivalent of Governor in America). - After a couple of major missteps (invalidating all high value currency notes, tax changes), growth started to slow. While it had been 7-9% between 2004 and 2014, it was now 5% or less. - The BJP started to capture and subvert institutions that make India function as a democracy including the Courts[1] and the Election Commission[2]. They intimidated and coerced the media into toeing the BJP line [3]. - In 2019, the BJP won re-election. In this campaign, there was no talk of development (because there was precious little of it), no discussion of rampant unemployment. The BJP tried to convince us that the main issue was Pakistan (it wasn't) and how they were an existential threat to the nation (they weren't) and how Modi had "taught them a lesson" (he hadn't). - Since then, Hindutva has made a big comeback. It is now priority #1, above unemployment, above low growth. - The BJP is staking everything on killing the separatist movement in Kashmir and removing all special privileges of Kashmiris, building a temple over a destroyed mosque, and removing illegal Muslim immigrants. Though seemingly disparate, all of these facilitate the broader goal of establishing a Hindu Rashtra - a nation of Hindus, by Hindus, for Hindus. One where the secular Constitution of India is no longer valid. - To enforce this, the BJP has resorted to totalitarian tactics, including the effective house arrest of millions of Kashmiris, coupled with an internet blackout. Thanks to the aforementioned capture of the Courts, the Supreme Court has done nothing to right this injustice [4]. That's where we are now. On a personal note, writing this down broke my heart. I love my country and I grieve to see what is being done to it. [1] - https://www.telegraphindia.com/opinion/judging-the-judges/cid/1438565 https://www.telegraphindia.com/opinion/judging-the-judges/ci... [2] - https://frontline.thehindu.com/cover-story/article29618205.ece https://frontline.thehindu.com/cover-story/article29618205.e... [3] - https://thewire.in/media/punya-prasun-bajpai-bjp-media https://thewire.in/media/punya-prasun-bajpai-bjp-media [4] - https://scroll.in/article/935432/analysis-supreme-court-orders-in-kashmir-petitions-undermine-the-spirit-of-habeas-corpus https://scroll.in/article/935432/analysis-supreme-court-orde...

ra7 7y ago
> building a temple over a destroyed mosque Wasn't this a Supreme Court order both parties accepted? The BJP isn't forcing this, although this has been their goal for decades and they will certainly claim credit for it.

0xFFFE 7y ago

These discussions quickly devolve into political mudslinging , I wish there was way to filter out such posts.