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Honking is very uncommon in Sweden, and I remember my driving instructor pointing out to me that the only time you ever use it is to call attention to avoid an
by hnarn 7y ago
Honking is very uncommon in Sweden, and I remember my driving instructor pointing out to me that the only time you ever use it is to call attention to avoid an immediate accident. In practice, I see many drivers not even doing this. I routinely see people jaywalking in urban environments and cars just stopping until they've crossed.
One thing that might be semi related to this is the entitlement of drivers. My view of Sweden is that most people accept that cities "belong" to pedestrians first hand, and cars need to be careful. In other parts of the world, the "get out of my way" entitlement of drivers is very apparent and I don't think it's very helpful.
- Svip 7y ago> In practice, I see many drivers not even doing this. I routinely see people jaywalking in urban environments and cars just stopping until they've crossed. Which is the correct thing to do. An immediate accident would be if a car was reversing out of a blind drive way, and another was approaching, and you're seeing the whole thing about to happen, but it isn't clear either of the two other drivers are. That's when you honk. If you can mitigate an accident by simply stopping, then don't honk. It's generally only for things you can see is about to happen, that the others probably haven't seen, or is aware of. Whether or not the accident will involve yourself is secondary.
- raducu 7y agoWhile I don't honk to punish people, I do (short)honk in case someone does something really stupid that could/almost caused an accident.
- mercer 7y agoAs a former full-time pedestrian: thanks. more than once it's reminded me to be more careful!
- gowld 7y agoStopping for a pedestrian won't save their life when another car zooms by you in the next lane, while your car is blocking their view. A pedestrian in the road is an emergency.
- csomar 7y agoI'm not sure why you are downvoted. Jaywalking is bad for everyone: The pedestrians since it makes them at risk. The cars since it slows them down. Roads were made for cars and white cross-walks for pedestrians to cross them. If you don't like cars around, then remove the roads.
- joaopbnogueira 7y agoRoads were actually built for pedestrians first, jaywalking was 'invented' in the US https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3888104 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3888104
- Symbiote 7y ago"Jaywalking" isn't forbidden in Sweden. The word "jay" is old American slang for "idiot", and the term was promoted by the car companies to push the blame for accidents onto pedestrians.
- Nursie 7y agoNor the UK, where we are told that a pedestrian that is already in the road has "right of way" at all times. Perhaps they shouldn't be there, but their safety around tons of fast-moving metal is the only important thing at that point.
- mrob 7y ago"Right of way" in the UK means a legal right to use the road. Pedestrians have right of way on most UK roads (motorways being a notable exception). "Right of way" is sometimes used as slang for "right to proceed first when multiple road users are competing for the same part of the road", but the correct term for this, as used in the Highway Code, is "priority".
- chippy 7y agoJust to build on this, pedestrians have priority at marked pedestrians crossings of course but also outside of marked crossings when crossing a smaller road where a car is on a main road and is wanting to turn into the smaller road. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-... "Watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way"
- mongol 7y agoIs "right of way" perhaps a naval term, primarily?
- twic 7y agoApparently not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Regulations_for_Preventing_Collisions_at_Sea#No_right-of-way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Regulations_for_...
- Siemer 7y agoHave you ever visited a city like Mumbai? In the larger cities of most less developed countries it's not only very accepted but even necessary for the safety of everyone to honk at every corner or crowded situation. The main culprit is the staggering amount of scooters, that usually ignore all rules and zip through any opening they can find. You'll be saving lives by honking in every situation, people kind of count on it. I'm not surprised this behavior translates into an increase in meaningless honking at red traffic signs.
- aww_dang 7y agoYes. Do you believe that these behaviors are necessary and excusable because of the lack of development or that these countries are less developed because of these attitudes? Which option is a proactive philosophy which promotes change?
- Siemer 7y agoIn the current situation it is necessary, since it prevents accidents. The main problem is that there is simply too much traffic on poorly planned and barely maintained infrastructure, so in that sense development would "solve" the necessity of honking. But that's a long term solution, which will require a lot of time and funding. A short term solution that does not involve a massive infrastructure overhaul is difficult. Perhaps a clever reflow AI could mitigate some of the problems in the near future. This is something that does need attention, because the air pollution in cities facing this problem is terrible.
- aww_dang 7y agoSomehow other regions manage to handle traffic congestion without creating 85db of noise pollution.
- Ayesh 7y agoNot the person you replied to but I disagree with this. I've been to Mumbai (and Delhi and a few other cities for that matter), and it is not for the safety. Take Ho Chi Minh City for example. There are more scooters there than people, and honking is not much of a problem as in Mumbai. Scooter riders know how to make their way and they are super precise when pedestrians cross. Pedestrians don't wait for scooters to stop. You just cross the road, and scooters will go around you. In India, there is the reverse mentality that roads belong to vehicles and pedestrians just have to take care of themselves.
- TeMPOraL 7y agoSame in Poland. You have a legal obligation to honk a) to warn about imminent danger, b) when doing certain maneuvers (e.g. passing by, overtaking) in very low visibility conditions (e.g. dense fog). In built-up areas you'll get fined for honking for other reasons; on the countryside, you're only forbidden from "abusing" the horn. Not sure how much culture plays into it - over here it's cars that own cities (not to the extent they do in the US, though).
- yodsanklai 7y agoYou're lucky. Here in France, honking is illegal (except for signalling immediate danger) yet people honk all the time and it's tolerated. I live in a city and it's a major nuisance. It's stressful for drivers (even more for cyclists) and extremely annoying for people living nearby. I really don't understand why this isn't taken more seriously.
- seszett 7y agoI thought it was bad in France but now I live in Belgium and it's much worse. That's in Flanders, no idea about the rest of Belgium although I imagine Brussels should be worse on this regard. People will honk just because they are stuck in traffic, and once one car starts honking, at least a few others will join them. In my street in particular, this happens at least weekly at 7am and in front of a hospital, and if I walk up to them to tell them to stop because it's useless and disturbs everyone, they get even more angry obviously.
- justanotherc 7y agoPeople don't like to be told they did something wrong
- hylaride 7y agoInteresting. Last time I was in a city in France, I noticed the whine of scooters more than honking, but I live in a big city so I may have just tuned the honking out.
- carlmr 7y agoIn Germany if you don't start accelerating when the light turns yellow, the guy behind you will start honking.
- MonkZ 7y agoGerman car driver here. I don't use it as signal of anger, but as hint, that the driver in front has to refocus on the traffic again. (Others may still angry-honk of course)
- MrGilbert 7y ago> In Germany if you don't start accelerating when the light turns yellow, the guy behind you will start honking. Don't generalize. Usually, you have some seconds until the driver behind you will honk. I normally count "21 - 22 - 23", then I honk if there hasn't been any reaction (restarting the engine, pressing the brake pedal, etc.). But your mileage my vary.
- carlmr 7y agoMaybe it's area dependant, in my city they definitely honk in under a second.
- anonymousDan 7y agoAs they should, get a move on (not you specifically of course ;))
- umvi 7y agoI realize in Germany yellow comes before green (and not after, like America). But it still reminds me of this Simpsons clip; https://youtu.be/QR10t-B9nYY https://youtu.be/QR10t-B9nYY
- carlmr 7y agoIt comes before and after. Green -> Yellow (go if you're still at a speed that stopping would be dangerous) -> Red -> Red & Yellow (get ready) -> Green
- 72deluxe 7y agoIt's very amusing looking at the replies in this thread with widespread horn use because in the UK using the horn is very rare indeed. It is sometimes used to encourage someone to go at lights that have changed because the other driver is obviously not paying attention to driving a 1+ tonne vehicle, and used in anger when someone does a "dangerous" maneouvre eg. pulling out on someone at a roundabout, but I always think "if you have enough time to sound your horn, you have enough time to react (and therefore not honk)". Having said this, there are an awful lot of very angry, selfish people on the roads as indicated by the "dash cam" videos on YouTube (where mostly it seems that the driver has submitted a video of a "appalling driving" but actually demonstrates their own inability to control their hot-headed exceedingly short temper in any rational sane manner, thereby indicting themselves rather than the "appalling" other driver).
- Sohcahtoa82 7y agoHere's a good example, the driver at 3:42 in this video: https://youtu.be/GQLUOeo9cps?t=222 https://youtu.be/GQLUOeo9cps?t=222 The cammer didn't even begin slowing down until their car's forward collision warning went off, and then tries to claim that the one in front of them "stopped like a bitch". This driver learned nothing from the incident, and will continue to drive poorly.
- 72deluxe 7y agoYes, was the driver with the camera not paying attention to anything in front of him?? He should try driving on motorways in the UK in rush hour, where the distance between you and the car in front is about a third of that footage, and everyone's doing 80mph. (Yes I attempt to increase the distance for safety purposes, and then people pull in because they think it is a "space"). Insane.
- raxxorrax 7y agoIt is pretty uncommon here too, although there certainly is an effect that mutates every driver to a choleric imbecile as soon as they get behind the wheel. Fascinating really. As if those 5 seconds of waiting would ruin your whole day. In most cases it isn't even 5 seconds and honking nets you nothing besides animosity. Given that, I wouldn't want to drive anything in India that is larger than a rickshaw. But those have very likely horns too if they want to survive. A busy road in India just looks like complete chaos.
- swiley 7y ago> the only time you ever use it is to call attention to avoid an immediate accident. It’s taught this way in the US as well, although it’s pretty often used to express anger. > the "get out of my way" entitlement of drivers is very apparent. Here the universities have the “car is a guest in the pedestrian’s space “ feeling but a lot of cities don’t (which was pretty dangerously confusing to me after a few years of college.)
- OJFord 7y agoSimilarly in the UK, it's to alert other drivers to your presence. e.g. on a winding country road with no room to pass another road user safely, nor visibility around the corner. But of course, 'I say, I am just here, let's not hit each other' does quite naturally decay into 'Oi, I'm just here, you nearly bloody hit me you prick'.
- chrisseaton 7y ago> I routinely see people jaywalking in urban environments Swap 'people jaywalking' with 'people trying to cross a road.' Jaywalking is a ludicrous concept and even more ludicrous as something to make a legal issue.
- mar77i 7y agoThis casts an interesting light on my long-standing dislike for crosswalks: Everywhere else on the streets as a pedestrian, drivers will not expect me, therefore it is my, the pedestrian's, responsibility to stay safe. On crosswalks, it is the drivers' responsibility to stop to let me cross, whether they see me or not, which seems kind of unpredictable to me, and to children, too, I imagine. As a pedestrian, I feel more comfortable assuming drivers' "get out of my way" mentality, because I cannot assume I was seen. I imagine that at least some accidents happen in the shared windings of responsibilities between drivers and pedestrians that can grow into full-blown confusion - and accidents, where I'd rather prefer a simple, pessimistic solution for myself as a pedestrian.