9 ms·

Hundreds of workers defy Amazon rules to protest company's climate failures

145 points by perfunctory 7y ago

golemiprague 7y ago
spare us this politics click bait, we are tired of this climate change propaganda everywhere. If you believe it, good on you, if not then not, it is not going to change anybody's opinion
narag 7y ago
So they're under exploitative working conditions and they protest against... climate change? Honestly, I can't understand.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  Could be good to get exposure since the general public is quite focused on that topic. But yes, working conditions is the reason why I would never want to work for Amazon, even if developers fare much better than people in production or logistics. Bad enough that I use their services and like the tech they develop. Would be nice to have a larger handle to penalize them for their exploitation.
- kufuffin 7y ago
  How do you know they’re not protesting both?
  - narag 7y ago
    Or maybe it's not the same people with the extreme jobs. I didn't even consider that. Because if it were me, I'm sure the first news to reach everybody wouldn't be these ones.
throwawayhsksn 7y ago
I know a guy who works at Amazon. The person who spammed the internal email list soliciting participants for this is no longer at the company. Survey sent in the email: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZSJH2G3 https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZSJH2G3
- hectorlorenzo 7y ago
  As far as I know, this is not true. The person I got the email from is still working at Amazon.
- krn 7y ago
  > The person who spammed the internal email list soliciting participants for this is no longer at the company. I could understand this from the AMZN shareholders point of view: as an employee of the company you are paid to defend private interests, not public interests.
  - paganel 7y ago
    > as an employee of the company you are paid to defend private interests, not public interests So all that "stakeholder capitalism" recent discussion was pure BS? [1] [1] https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/investor-relations/larry-fink-ceo-letter https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/investor-relations/larry...
    - krn 7y ago
      That should come from the top, not from the bottom of the company. It's not the responsibility of a lower level employee to define what his company stands for. Everyone is free to work for a company that matches his values.
      - paganel 7y ago
        > Everyone is free to work for a company that matches his values. No, they are not. Maybe it is true for a select group of people (computer programmers, some lawyers, some medical professionals), but the vast majority of people are not "free to work" and choose any company that matches "their values". Which makes protests like this one even more important and noteworthy, as those people protesting are risking a lot more compared to the "privileged" professions I mentioned above.
        7y ago
benmmurphy 7y ago
One of the quotes seems to imply Amazon should not let oil and gas companies use their cloud services. Having these companies use less efficient alternatives would seem to be a net loss for society. I don’t think there is a positive upside because the change in cost would not be large enough to change output.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  I don't know how extensive the infrastructure of big oil is and how interwoven with AWS, but you are probably correct. That aside, the whole business of Amazon is dependent on oil. Logistics, packaging, ... Maybe it is wrong not to protest, but it just feels... off.
  - salawat 7y ago
    I would say that AWS infrastructure is a fart in the wind as far as the fossil fuel industry goes given they seem to have done just fine for most of their history without it. AWS is really only good for projects where the importance of the compute is not quite enough to justify setting up your own infrastructure, but important enough to be willing to throw money at to make the location part of your system go away by throwing more OPS people at it.
- perfunctory 7y ago
  > cost would not be large enough to change output. Nothing is large enough by itself to alleviate climate change. We can all cleverly rationalise why this or that action has little effect and watch the world burn in our smart inaction. Or we can do our bit where we have some influence.
  - MadWombat 7y ago
    > We can all cleverly rationalise why this or that action has little effect and watch the world burn in our smart inaction. Or we can do our bit where we have some influence. This is what I dislike about activists. The whole "any action is better than in action" attitude. Actions are only good if the positive value they produce outweighs the damage they cause. For example, if we were to shut down all of industry everywhere, we might reduce our fossil fuel usage to a minimum, but it will not help the millions of people who would die in the aftermath of such an action. In this instance, insisting that Amazon kicks oil and gas companies off of its cloud services is an empty gesture. There are plenty of alternative services (Google and Microsoft come to mind and they are not the only ones) the infrastructure re-build cost will be absorbed into the pricing model and in the end nothing will be gained and you will pay for the change with your heating and gas bills. But hey, at least you can wear the "I did something" t-shirt or whatever
elfexec 7y ago
"More than 340 tech workers at Amazon used the hashtag #AMZNSpeakOut in public statements that condemn the company for not taking sufficient action on the climate crisis." 340 whole workers? Total number of amazon employees : 750,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_(company) So 749,660 employees did not protest? Shouldn't that be the real news?
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  You seem to have unintentionally conflated "tech workers at Amazon" with "all Amazon employees". It turns out that the majority of Amazon employees are not what we categorize as "tech workers", so you should be using that much smaller figure as your denominator.
- iicc 7y ago
  340 whole workers risking their livelihoods.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - llcoolv 7y ago
    Come on, that's a bit too dramatic. Tech people don't stay unemployed for too long.
    - llcoolv 7y ago
      Alright, so many downvotes and not a single reasonable critique. I was just saying that those people would very easily find new employment, so saying that they're "risking their livelihood" is far-fetched to say the least.
      - kufuffin 7y ago
        I think you’re being downvoted because you’re downplaying what they are potentially risking. They could be putting hundreds of thousands of dollars in their stock plans at risk. They could be risking getting blackballed. Who knows?
LatteLazy 7y ago
So woke. So pointless. Such virtue signaling...
- rkop 7y ago
  So perfect entry for HN users based in Silicon Valley. Upvote, folks! And don't forget to write about that on twitter.
mclightning 7y ago
Confusing headline, editorialized too much probably.
keanzu 7y ago
Don't know why Amazon doesn't just leave protestors to their actions. Bezos needs to watch Southpark episode 100 and rethink the strategy. We can be a nation that believes in war And still tells the world that we don't Let the flag for Hypocrisy https://southpark.cc.com/clips/103534/bleeding-heart-rock-protest-song-vs-pro-war-country-song https://southpark.cc.com/clips/103534/bleeding-heart-rock-pr...
andrewmutz 7y ago
Pollution from carbon emissions are a classic market failure. It's not the responsibility of the market participants to fix the market failure, its the responsibility of the elected policy-makers (and transitively, the voters) to fix it. The problem is not Amazon or other large companies continuing to do business as usual. The problem is the people who stand in the way of using normal political mechanisms to regulate carbon emissions.
- psweber 7y ago
  Who are "the people who stand in the way of using normal political mechanisms to regulate carbon emissions"?
- asokoloski 7y ago
  For anyone who wants to know how they can help with this, personally: Citizens' Climate Lobby is a nonpartisan group that is trying to get a revenue-neutral carbon fee and dividend (The Energy Innovation and Carbon Dividend Act, H.R. 763) through Congress. https://citizensclimatelobby.org/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/ CCL promotes a measured approach, focused on this single task -- it's not about protesting or venting frustration. I personally think it's the most effective way to make a real difference. And H.R. 763 has strong support of both climate scientists and economists as an effective way to reduce our emissions and mitigate climate change.
  - amelius 7y ago
    I'd suggest to first fix the accounting. So you introduce a tax which is exactly nulled by a subsidy. This is much easier to get through Congress. Once you have the accounting in place, you can start pushing to lower the subsidies.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
swsieber 7y ago
An incredibly huge environmental failure, though not one I've seen framed as such, is their counterfeit problem. Shipping a bunch of useless (counterfeit) stuff probably exacts a huge environmental toll.

145 points by perfunctory 7y ago

spare us this politics click bait, we are tired of this climate change propaganda everywhere. If you believe it, good on you, if not then not, it is not going to change anybody's opinion

narag 7y ago

So they're under exploitative working conditions and they protest against... climate change? Honestly, I can't understand.

raxxorrax 7y ago
Could be good to get exposure since the general public is quite focused on that topic. But yes, working conditions is the reason why I would never want to work for Amazon, even if developers fare much better than people in production or logistics. Bad enough that I use their services and like the tech they develop. Would be nice to have a larger handle to penalize them for their exploitation.
kufuffin 7y ago
How do you know they’re not protesting both?
- narag 7y ago
  Or maybe it's not the same people with the extreme jobs. I didn't even consider that. Because if it were me, I'm sure the first news to reach everybody wouldn't be these ones.

throwawayhsksn 7y ago

I know a guy who works at Amazon. The person who spammed the internal email list soliciting participants for this is no longer at the company. Survey sent in the email: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZSJH2G3 https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZSJH2G3

hectorlorenzo 7y ago
As far as I know, this is not true. The person I got the email from is still working at Amazon.
krn 7y ago
> The person who spammed the internal email list soliciting participants for this is no longer at the company. I could understand this from the AMZN shareholders point of view: as an employee of the company you are paid to defend private interests, not public interests.
- paganel 7y ago
  > as an employee of the company you are paid to defend private interests, not public interests So all that "stakeholder capitalism" recent discussion was pure BS? [1] [1] https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/investor-relations/larry-fink-ceo-letter https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/investor-relations/larry...
  - krn 7y ago
    That should come from the top, not from the bottom of the company. It's not the responsibility of a lower level employee to define what his company stands for. Everyone is free to work for a company that matches his values.
    - paganel 7y ago
      > Everyone is free to work for a company that matches his values. No, they are not. Maybe it is true for a select group of people (computer programmers, some lawyers, some medical professionals), but the vast majority of people are not "free to work" and choose any company that matches "their values". Which makes protests like this one even more important and noteworthy, as those people protesting are risking a lot more compared to the "privileged" professions I mentioned above.
      - 7y ago

benmmurphy 7y ago

One of the quotes seems to imply Amazon should not let oil and gas companies use their cloud services. Having these companies use less efficient alternatives would seem to be a net loss for society. I don’t think there is a positive upside because the change in cost would not be large enough to change output.

raxxorrax 7y ago
I don't know how extensive the infrastructure of big oil is and how interwoven with AWS, but you are probably correct. That aside, the whole business of Amazon is dependent on oil. Logistics, packaging, ... Maybe it is wrong not to protest, but it just feels... off.
- salawat 7y ago
  I would say that AWS infrastructure is a fart in the wind as far as the fossil fuel industry goes given they seem to have done just fine for most of their history without it. AWS is really only good for projects where the importance of the compute is not quite enough to justify setting up your own infrastructure, but important enough to be willing to throw money at to make the location part of your system go away by throwing more OPS people at it.
perfunctory 7y ago
> cost would not be large enough to change output. Nothing is large enough by itself to alleviate climate change. We can all cleverly rationalise why this or that action has little effect and watch the world burn in our smart inaction. Or we can do our bit where we have some influence.
- MadWombat 7y ago
  > We can all cleverly rationalise why this or that action has little effect and watch the world burn in our smart inaction. Or we can do our bit where we have some influence. This is what I dislike about activists. The whole "any action is better than in action" attitude. Actions are only good if the positive value they produce outweighs the damage they cause. For example, if we were to shut down all of industry everywhere, we might reduce our fossil fuel usage to a minimum, but it will not help the millions of people who would die in the aftermath of such an action. In this instance, insisting that Amazon kicks oil and gas companies off of its cloud services is an empty gesture. There are plenty of alternative services (Google and Microsoft come to mind and they are not the only ones) the infrastructure re-build cost will be absorbed into the pricing model and in the end nothing will be gained and you will pay for the change with your heating and gas bills. But hey, at least you can wear the "I did something" t-shirt or whatever

elfexec 7y ago

"More than 340 tech workers at Amazon used the hashtag #AMZNSpeakOut in public statements that condemn the company for not taking sufficient action on the climate crisis." 340 whole workers? Total number of amazon employees : 750,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_(company) So 749,660 employees did not protest? Shouldn't that be the real news?

lazyasciiart 7y ago
You seem to have unintentionally conflated "tech workers at Amazon" with "all Amazon employees". It turns out that the majority of Amazon employees are not what we categorize as "tech workers", so you should be using that much smaller figure as your denominator.
iicc 7y ago
340 whole workers risking their livelihoods.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- llcoolv 7y ago
  Come on, that's a bit too dramatic. Tech people don't stay unemployed for too long.
  - llcoolv 7y ago
    Alright, so many downvotes and not a single reasonable critique. I was just saying that those people would very easily find new employment, so saying that they're "risking their livelihood" is far-fetched to say the least.
    - kufuffin 7y ago
      I think you’re being downvoted because you’re downplaying what they are potentially risking. They could be putting hundreds of thousands of dollars in their stock plans at risk. They could be risking getting blackballed. Who knows?

LatteLazy 7y ago

So woke. So pointless. Such virtue signaling...

rkop 7y ago
So perfect entry for HN users based in Silicon Valley. Upvote, folks! And don't forget to write about that on twitter.

mclightning 7y ago

Confusing headline, editorialized too much probably.

keanzu 7y ago

Don't know why Amazon doesn't just leave protestors to their actions. Bezos needs to watch Southpark episode 100 and rethink the strategy. We can be a nation that believes in war And still tells the world that we don't Let the flag for Hypocrisy https://southpark.cc.com/clips/103534/bleeding-heart-rock-protest-song-vs-pro-war-country-song https://southpark.cc.com/clips/103534/bleeding-heart-rock-pr...

andrewmutz 7y ago

Pollution from carbon emissions are a classic market failure. It's not the responsibility of the market participants to fix the market failure, its the responsibility of the elected policy-makers (and transitively, the voters) to fix it. The problem is not Amazon or other large companies continuing to do business as usual. The problem is the people who stand in the way of using normal political mechanisms to regulate carbon emissions.

psweber 7y ago
Who are "the people who stand in the way of using normal political mechanisms to regulate carbon emissions"?
asokoloski 7y ago
For anyone who wants to know how they can help with this, personally: Citizens' Climate Lobby is a nonpartisan group that is trying to get a revenue-neutral carbon fee and dividend (The Energy Innovation and Carbon Dividend Act, H.R. 763) through Congress. https://citizensclimatelobby.org/ https://citizensclimatelobby.org/ CCL promotes a measured approach, focused on this single task -- it's not about protesting or venting frustration. I personally think it's the most effective way to make a real difference. And H.R. 763 has strong support of both climate scientists and economists as an effective way to reduce our emissions and mitigate climate change.
- amelius 7y ago
  I'd suggest to first fix the accounting. So you introduce a tax which is exactly nulled by a subsidy. This is much easier to get through Congress. Once you have the accounting in place, you can start pushing to lower the subsidies.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

swsieber 7y ago

An incredibly huge environmental failure, though not one I've seen framed as such, is their counterfeit problem. Shipping a bunch of useless (counterfeit) stuff probably exacts a huge environmental toll.