16 ms·

Ending Support for macOS and Linux

149 points by tech234a 7y ago

azhenley 7y ago
> As we continue to upgrade Rocket League with new technologies, it is no longer viable for us to maintain support for the macOS and Linux Any idea which specific technologies they are referring to?
- ssutch3 7y ago
  Certainly PR speak. They just don’t want to maintain support for the platforms anymore due to their ROI.
  - keyle 7y ago
    Yes, it's most likely that the effort it takes ($) to develop and maintain vs. the direct revenue it provides is abysmal.
  - clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
    Devil's advocate here: if it has a low ROI why should they?
    - ssutch3 7y ago
      Not saying they should at all. Why pay to maintain a product line that isn’t financially viable?
    - jannes 7y ago
      Because they made a commitment when they sold the game to Linux users who bought it for the online multiplayer.
      - ohithereyou 7y ago
        Just because a game is available for a platform doesn't mean that it will always be supported for that platform. That's like people complaining that the Wii U version of a multiplatform online game isn't getting patches anymore. Yeah, that sucks, but you're making a mistake if you think a platform will be supported indefinitely.
- sieabahlpark 7y ago
  Papa Epic Games just doing what they do best
- tech234a 7y ago
  It does seem kind of vague, though Apple is depreciating OpenGL (not sure if that is required by Rocket League).
- flatiron 7y ago
  Epic Games Store.
  - kevinh 7y ago
    EGS supports macOS, so that's unlikely to be the reason.
- kevingadd 7y ago
  Most likely stuff like DirectX 12, or third-party middleware without viable MacOS or Linux support. The deprecation of OpenGL on MacOS is another barrier for that platform - you either have to buy GL-on-Metal middleware from someone or write a new Metal renderer. If the % of customers on Mac is small enough I can understand just opting to drop that platform. Hard to say re:Linux, though. Maybe they get more customer service burden out of maintaining Linux support than they do revenue. It's common to hear that from indie game developers, though some developers say the opposite. EDIT: Also just occurred to me that Valve's ongoing Proton efforts have resulted in Windows Rocket League working okay on Linux: https://www.protondb.com/app/252950 https://www.protondb.com/app/252950 As a result the devs may have decided it's better to just leave Linux to third parties. Some of the reviews claim Windows-via-Proton is faster than the official Linux port!
  - jeroenhd 7y ago
    It'll work, but anti-cheat software can easily mistake the emulated Linux environment to be a tampered Windows environment and flag your account. It'll work for a while, probably, but there's no way to know how long and if/when you risk an account wide ban.
  - jovdg 7y ago
    I can confirm our runs better via proton on my Dell latitude laptop.
  - jannes 7y ago
    Funnily enough Rocket League still uses DirectX 9. Do you ever see them upgrading to anything newer?
- pix64 7y ago
  Apple deprecated OpenGL and doesn't support Vulkan
  - teamspirit 7y ago
    There's always moltenVK. I can't seem to find anything that's made with it though.
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      The Dolphin emulator uses it. I think some of the recent Valve games do too.
    - mikenew 7y ago
      I beleive Dota 2 uses MoltenVK.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Which aren't also supported by either PS 4 and XBox.
- grawprog 7y ago
  >Any idea which specific technologies they are referring to? The epic games store.
caleb-allen 7y ago
Oof. I was excited to get my linux machine set up again as my entertainment center, with Rocket League as my main motivator. Guess not
- Zhyl 7y ago
  Gaming in Linux has basically undergone a revolution in the last 18 months. It's now possible to pretty much play any game under the sun using Proton (Valve's homebrew Wine + DXVK) or Lutris (Wine manager and installation script repository). The only trouble is games with anti-cheat, which rules out a lot of online games including Fortnite, PUBG and others.
  - uncle_j 7y ago
    You do realise that Proton and similar technologies decrease the incentive for developers to port their game to Linux? Why bother porting it when you can count on someone fixing it for you. As for playing any game under the sun. No it doesn't. A lot of things fail and don't work quite right. Also a lot of mods don't work which is half the reason to play games on PC.
    - Spivak 7y ago
      Look, at this point I’ll take a game that works well under Proton over the half-hearted abandonware ports that we were getting before. There are games that are native and run fantastically on Linux. But they were always the exception.
      - saalweachter 7y ago
        This reminds me of the "heightening the contradictions" political arguments.
    - yyyk 7y ago
      It's the other way around. There would be little incentive to port games to Linux without an existing gamer pool which can buy them, and there would be no gamer pool without an initial range of games... The only practical way to break that vicious circle was the emulation option. Linux gamers play on emulation, but appreciate native ports and form the (initial) buyer pool for Linux games. So Proton and co are the only reason there's any viable Linux gaming at all. Without Proton, every Linux gamer would have had a Windows install and play with that alone.
teruakohatu 7y ago
The only real changes they have been making is monetizing by adding cosmetics. As far as Linux goes this is a pure ROI play, nothing more. The mac support may have been removed due to Apple not supporting 32bit apps (and the expected return verse cost of going 64bit)
jeroenhd 7y ago
This was to be expected, when Epic Games, notorious for not giving a rat's ass about Linux support, acquired the studio behind Rocket League. Other titles from studios bought by Epic will likely follow if they have not already. This does pose the question on what happens to Linux players who have invested into digital purchases. Online functionality will be disabled so all items will basically be void and the game becomes mostly worthless. I also wonder if this means that Rocket League will not run on Google Stadia and its competitors, as those platforms mostly run on Linux systems.
- Zhyl 7y ago
  They also bought Easy Anti-Cheat. Same arguments apply.
  - m-p-3 7y ago
    Which makes it a non-starter for any multiplayer games using EAC and Proton/Wine, and it would be unlikely to see a native Linux game using EAC considering Epic lack of interest in Linux. They're the new Nvidia of the Linux world. Hopefully a more crossplatform anticheat tool is available..
    - cferr 7y ago
      Rust (the game) uses EAC and has a Linux native client. At least it did last time I played it on OpenSUSE. I haven't played it in a while. The lead developer has expressed regret for supporting Linux. Oh yeah, 7 Days to Die also uses EAC on Linux.
- Arelius 7y ago
  > I also wonder if this means that Rocket League will not run on Google Stadia and its competitors, as those platforms mostly run on Linux systems. Firstly, what do you mean by competitors? I'm pretty sure none of xCloud, Playstation Now, or Nvidia Now use Linux systems. Secondly, I wouldn't read that far into it. I doubt this has much to do with supporting the Linux API, and more about other burdens of support for Linux desktops, dealing with packaging that can deal with differences in distros, systems, and drivers especially in the context of all the configuration and poor vulkan support. Likely make Linux as a platform not worth supporting. Where Stadia will almost certainly be evaluated separately like a standard game console due to it's (I assume) hardware and api stability. Of course, Stadia may also not be decided worth the burden based on it's player-base, but I am confident it'll be an orthogonal decision.
DevKoala 7y ago
I feel this is a horrible anti-consumer practice, but their ROI must be incredibly low. I don't remember the last time I played a game on a Mac. I wonder how Apple Arcade is doing.
- criddell 7y ago
  What's a better solution? Charge more for Linux and Mac versions?
  - cbhl 7y ago
    Dedicated consoles. The Nintendo Switch runs Rocket League just fine. Once it's on there, you don't really have to worry about constant breaking changes from the operating system changing its audio subsystem or weird graphics drivers.
    - nobleach 7y ago
      The NVidia Shield runs it beautifully as well. (Same Tegra chip as the Switch).
  - paxys 7y ago
    There is no better solution. For Mac - Apple has to make gaming a bigger priority, and that's clearly not going to happen. A ~$1000 upgradable Apple machine with a powerful graphics card that can run the latest games is a pipe dream. For Linux - It's the same problem as building any software for Linux that caters to the non-server non-developer segment. There just isn't enough of a business justification.
    - Nightshaxx 7y ago
      Acctually there were recently strong rumors Apple is going to do just that. Makes sense that Apple sees the growing gaming market and wants to get in on it. Them entering the market would be the incentive devs need to make their games work for Mac (and hopefully therefore Linux)
    - 7y ago
trynewideas 7y ago
So Epic buys Psyonix in May 2019, Rocket League is an Unreal Engine game, and less than a year later Epic/Psyonix drops support two supported Unreal Engine platforms. Is this isolated? Do I have any rational reason to sweat this as foreshadowing of Epic dropping those as UE4 platforms?
- jedieaston 7y ago
  Rocket League is on UE3, so hopefully not. They probably just didn’t want it to be patched for three platforms.
  - trynewideas 7y ago
    Ah! That's the bit of context I was missing. That makes a lot more sense, thanks.
- dx87 7y ago
  It's probably more likely related to the EGS not running on Linux, and Psyonix saying that they are transitioning to only the EGS after they got bought by Epic.
dbg31415 7y ago
If you want to game on a Mac just fire up Bootcamp. Always blew me away how much better games ran on Windows vs. MacOS on the same hardware. Just night and day difference.
- redisman 7y ago
  I did that for a while but ended up buying a gaming PC for about $1000 and talk about a night and day difference to my $2000 Macbook. 100x the catalogue of games and 5x the performance.
  - pornel 7y ago
    It's baffling that Apple puts $180 GPUs in $3000-$6000 computers.
- m-p-3 7y ago
  I hope Valve will manage to bring official Proton support to MacOS one day.
  - Snetry 7y ago
    It may happen once wine supports running 32 bit applications on 64 bit wine
- kgwxd 7y ago
  How much is the Windows license?
  - dingo_bat 7y ago
    Nice trick: Install an unlicensed copy of Win8 and get the free upgrade to Win10. It gets activated.
ryandrake 7y ago
Between these kinds of stories, companies abandoning robust and powerful Desktop applications for their mobile (toy-like in comparison) “apps”, companies dropping support for less-popular browsers, os vendors abandoning or downplaying cross-platform APIs like OpenGL, and the rise of halfway-house solutions like Electron, we seem to be headed towards another Dark Ages for cross-platform software. Charitably, this could be just companies saving developer time at the expense of users. Uncharitably, it’s explained by developer laziness and/or inability to learn cross platform development. I remember how frustrating it was in the late 90s being a desktop non-Windows user or non-Netscape user. We seem to be rapidly heading back to those bad days. Yet there’s no evil empire like Microsoft dominating the computing world and crushing cross-platform anymore like they did back then. It’s just kind of happening and it’s sad.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  It wasn't long ago that there were ~zero games for Linux/Mac on Steam. Now I see Linux/Mac icons on at least a third of the AAA titles. And the most popular games in the world (Dota, LoL, CS:GO, Fortnite, etc) are playable on Mac and sometimes even Linux. Seems pretty obvious that cross-plat is winning. Especially once you consider the most ubiquitous cross-plat vehicle of all: the browser. It's also the only platform with a built-in ad-blocker and development console, thus the most open and end-user-friendly.
  - Snetry 7y ago
    It's true developers and so started supporting Linux and macOS more and more But considering Epic used to be a Linux supporter it's sad to see it get outright removed from RL
imnotlost 7y ago
Linux and macOS game development in a nutshell - spend $200K to make $10K, get 10x angry "support requests"
- pippy 7y ago
  If you earn $10k out of a ~15% to 10% marketshare, you've only earned about $100k total. You're not going to get your money back.
  - floo 7y ago
    More like 3% when you combine linux and mac. That can make it hard to justify the cost. Still bs for an existing game with platform support from unreal though. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
    - smallstepforman 7y ago
      However, the number of available titles on Linux/Mac is small, so you become a big fish in small pond and take all the users money. Piracy on OSX is smaller, and they are typically wealthier and starving for content.
      - vernie 7y ago
        They have PS4s.
        egypturnash 7y ago
        Yeah. My Mac's for sitting at the desk or taking to the cafe and getting shit done. The PS4's for sitting on the sofa playing games.
      - Jasper_ 7y ago
        No, not really. There's a wealth of titles available on Linux thanks to Humble Bundle and Valve funding ports. Never has made any money.
amelius 7y ago
Why can't they use a multiplatform GUI toolkit like Qt, and compile for all platforms?
- colejohnson66 7y ago
  Qt doesn’t cut it; it’s designed for something completely different: windowed GUIs, not (3D) games. It’s the same reason why you wouldn’t make a game using WinForms. Basically, games use a different architecture than GUIs.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    SDL w/OpenGL more or less covers the big three though
    - tuckerpo 7y ago
      SDL probably isn't performant enough for AAA titles.
      - newnewpdro 7y ago
        Uninformed nonsense, SDL gives you the graphics context and you directly use native calls. It even supports Vulkan these days.
        tuckerpo 7y ago
        Hence the probably part of my comment. I wasn't speaking as an SDL authority.
- JabavuAdams 7y ago
  They could have used Unity to get good Windows and mac OS support, and theoretical Linux support, but that's a decision they would have had to make from the very start.
- pjmlp 7y ago
tomc1985 7y ago
Yet another grand failure of the consumer-hostile Games-as-a-Service model
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
stevewillows 7y ago
I used to love Rocket League, but it seems like every time they make a change, it goes against the community. First they took some fun, casual games (alternate modes) and made them competitive. The competition isn't the worst, but doing this removed the ability to rematch. Since the games weren't as popular, you'd often find a really great group where both teams were fairly balanced and rematch a dozen times. This was fun. They took that away along with the 'Labs', which were alternate arenas. Some went into Rumble (Rocket League with fun tools), but it just wasn't as fun. With the recent move away from keys, they totally borked their item system. Suddenly near worthless items would cost the user $8. They may have adjusted this, but I've all but stepped away. It's a shame to see the game slowly go downhill. They had a perfect balance a few years ago that allowed casual and competitive people to enjoy the game. Combine this with the eSports, and everything should have cruised along nicely.
sandGorgon 7y ago
given the popularity of WSL on Windows 10..i think we will see Windows becoming the best Linux platform there is. A lot of gamers i know have switched to using WSL for development (unless they have political objections). I think it will be more likely in the future that Linux gamers be asked to become WSL Gamers In fact, WSL works so well (including Docker and Kubernetes stuff), that i have a strong suspicion that Microsoft sales staff have been leashed pretty deliberately for optics reasons.
- peteforde 7y ago
  After enjoying "the good years" on Mac, I've been a daily Ubuntu user for two years and given I'm not a heavy gamer, I don't jump into Windows that often. That said, I'm in the process of building a new primary machine and it's going to be WSL because I want to have it all: functional SteamVR, titles that work by default instead of pleasant surprise, not having to accept whatever monopoly-building bully-tactics Apple decides to force down the pipe... I know that, at least in Wall Street terms, Apple is now a lifestyle fashion accessory manufacturer that only supports Macs and OS X because they feel generous, but it still makes me really sad. They clearly don't want to play ball with the mainstream gaming world, that's for sure. And "Tim Apple" believes that AR is more important than VR, so I don't anticipate the VR front getting any love period. And so I fold my hand. I used to feel like using Mac OS or Ubuntu was a legitimate power move and not just a political act, but these days the only people who deliberately choose Apple or Linux as a daily-drive OS are just masochists when WSL is so well implemented. If the Windows kernel ended up being the best Linux infrastructure, there's a dark joke in there somewhere.
- Jnr 7y ago
  WSL has no real hardware access and still runs on NTFS which is terribly slow. Windows developers will probably try to fix it somehow but it is not there yet Another option is to run Windows on top of Linux. But it currently also has some drawbacks.
  - sandGorgon 7y ago
    WSL2 (which im talking about ) is blazing fast. It runs a full linux kernel and not the WSL 1 NTFS emulation layer. https://medium.com/swlh/wsl-2-docker-edge-tech-preview-native-linux-containers-w-o-emulation-b41667e6dbef https://medium.com/swlh/wsl-2-docker-edge-tech-preview-nativ... It has full Docker Edge support now and CUDA support is upcoming. I'm genuinely impressed by WSL2
ryanmcdonough 7y ago
But they’ll support Windows 7 a product approaching EOL in a couple of weeks.
kgwxd 7y ago
I just shut down my work computers and switched over to my personal machine so I could jump into training mode to work on my dribbling, because I watched a few tips videos on lunch I was eager to apply, but decided to check my news feed first. Fuck. Cost of the game, 12 DLC packs, and 3 season passes just gone. 388 hours over 12 months to build skills I will never use again. And just as many hours watching others play. Rocket League was the one and only game I decided to break my no-centralized-or-DRM-protected-games rule for because it is an absolutely beautiful, pure-sport game. Psyonix made a fantastic game, Epic will destroy it. I knew how bad they were but really hoped they were just going to take this piece of art, not fuck with it, and just profit. The money I've spent on the game as a Linux user is easily measurable, but what about the, no less than 10, people I've inspired to buy the game and the people they in-turn inspired to buy the game? What about the toys my 3 year old wants because he sees me playing the game? What about when it would have been time for him to get a copy? What about all the friends he was going to inspire to get a copy? All because of a single Linux user that went against his own ideals hoping not to get fucked just this one time.
- ohithereyou 7y ago
  Rocket League costs $20 when it's not on sale. Say you get 50 people to buy the game. That's $1,000 in revenue, let's say that 80% of that is profit. So that's $800 that Psyonix/Epic make. I would imagine the staffing costs to keep Linux and macOS versions of the game running are more than $800/week.
remmargorp64 7y ago
Different platforms are better for different things. That's just a fact. This is why I use a desktop PC with windows 10 for PC gaming, Linux machines for my servers, and a Macbook Pro for programming work during the day.
- Snetry 7y ago
  Yeah but Windows isn't inherently better at gaming because it gives something the other platforms don't (DirectX12 can easily be replaced with Vulkan) It's a matter of the market choosing it's main Target and sticking to that
  - uncle_j 7y ago
    That isn't true. Windows does provide something that other platforms don't. The APIs and program compatibility are supported forever in Windows. I can run the original Quake and DOOM on Windows 10 without any problems. A friend of mine like playing GTA 3, it didn't work properly with Windows 8.1. In an update this incompatibility (I forget the exact reason why) was fixed. That just doesn't really happen with Linux.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Vulkan still lacks quite a few DirectX 12 features, LunarG SDK doesn't have anything comparable to DirectXTK, NVidia designs their hardware DirectX first and then retroactively applies the features as Vulkan and OpenGL extensions. Intel drivers have been historically always much better in DirectX as in OpenGL, where they even used to lie about their available GL capabilities. AMD, since they dropped my card from their FOSS drivers, I don't have much fate on their FOSS love.
csdreamer7 7y ago
Epic started out saying that they would bring the Epic Store to Linux. That was removed. Then this. I am so glad I haven't bought anything on the Epic Store. I did buy this game on Steam, before the studio was bought by Epic. Tim Sweeney was right with GabeN complaining about Microsoft; saying Linux was a 'get out of jail free' card. Now he is establishing his own monopoly that is dependent on Microsoft's monopoly on Windows.
29athrowaway 7y ago
Will those users be refunded?
- therealidiot 7y ago
  I've just submitted a refund request, I'm not sure if it will be granted but I'd hope that others who do not run Windows will also consider making a refund request (unless offline play is your preference anyway)
kgwxd 7y ago
What excited me about RL is the pure sport of it and the insane amount fine grained mechanics one had to learn to get good. Are there any other games with those attributes that that can't be arbitrarily taken away from me?
- rgun 7y ago
  Dota 2 * Plethora of mechanics and combinations possible, make it impossible for two games to ever be the same. * Steep learning curve but very rewarding I am fairly sure it will stay around at least for 3-4 more years (given the current popularity and player base).
  - kgwxd 7y ago
    Looks fun but I guess physics based mechanics is what I'm more interested in. And I'm pretty sure this could still potentially be taken away from me on a whim. No DRM and stand-alone servers are a prerequisite, I'm not falling for this shit ever again. This move by Epic was truly the last straw.
Jeaye 7y ago
I have Proton running RL consistently at 250 FPS using the following start command: PROTON_USE_D9VK=1 %command% -nomovie -high -AllowBackgroundAudio Without D9VK, specifically, the average FPS is around 145. Be sure to use the above, if you're playing with Proton!
- kgwxd 7y ago
  But for how long? Given how aggressive this move was (one damn month), I give it less than a year before it's not available in Steam anymore.
  - RealStickman 7y ago
    They shouldn't be able to pull Rocket League from customers who already have it in their library. They couldn't do it with other games like Metro Exodus either.

149 points by tech234a 7y ago

> As we continue to upgrade Rocket League with new technologies, it is no longer viable for us to maintain support for the macOS and Linux Any idea which specific technologies they are referring to?

ssutch3 7y ago
Certainly PR speak. They just don’t want to maintain support for the platforms anymore due to their ROI.
- keyle 7y ago
  Yes, it's most likely that the effort it takes ($) to develop and maintain vs. the direct revenue it provides is abysmal.
- clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
  Devil's advocate here: if it has a low ROI why should they?
  - ssutch3 7y ago
    Not saying they should at all. Why pay to maintain a product line that isn’t financially viable?
  - jannes 7y ago
    Because they made a commitment when they sold the game to Linux users who bought it for the online multiplayer.
    - ohithereyou 7y ago
      Just because a game is available for a platform doesn't mean that it will always be supported for that platform. That's like people complaining that the Wii U version of a multiplatform online game isn't getting patches anymore. Yeah, that sucks, but you're making a mistake if you think a platform will be supported indefinitely.
sieabahlpark 7y ago
Papa Epic Games just doing what they do best
tech234a 7y ago
It does seem kind of vague, though Apple is depreciating OpenGL (not sure if that is required by Rocket League).
flatiron 7y ago
Epic Games Store.
- kevinh 7y ago
  EGS supports macOS, so that's unlikely to be the reason.
kevingadd 7y ago
Most likely stuff like DirectX 12, or third-party middleware without viable MacOS or Linux support. The deprecation of OpenGL on MacOS is another barrier for that platform - you either have to buy GL-on-Metal middleware from someone or write a new Metal renderer. If the % of customers on Mac is small enough I can understand just opting to drop that platform. Hard to say re:Linux, though. Maybe they get more customer service burden out of maintaining Linux support than they do revenue. It's common to hear that from indie game developers, though some developers say the opposite. EDIT: Also just occurred to me that Valve's ongoing Proton efforts have resulted in Windows Rocket League working okay on Linux: https://www.protondb.com/app/252950 https://www.protondb.com/app/252950 As a result the devs may have decided it's better to just leave Linux to third parties. Some of the reviews claim Windows-via-Proton is faster than the official Linux port!
- jeroenhd 7y ago
  It'll work, but anti-cheat software can easily mistake the emulated Linux environment to be a tampered Windows environment and flag your account. It'll work for a while, probably, but there's no way to know how long and if/when you risk an account wide ban.
- jovdg 7y ago
  I can confirm our runs better via proton on my Dell latitude laptop.
- jannes 7y ago
  Funnily enough Rocket League still uses DirectX 9. Do you ever see them upgrading to anything newer?
pix64 7y ago
Apple deprecated OpenGL and doesn't support Vulkan
- teamspirit 7y ago
  There's always moltenVK. I can't seem to find anything that's made with it though.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    The Dolphin emulator uses it. I think some of the recent Valve games do too.
  - mikenew 7y ago
    I beleive Dota 2 uses MoltenVK.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Which aren't also supported by either PS 4 and XBox.
grawprog 7y ago
>Any idea which specific technologies they are referring to? The epic games store.

caleb-allen 7y ago

Oof. I was excited to get my linux machine set up again as my entertainment center, with Rocket League as my main motivator. Guess not

Zhyl 7y ago
Gaming in Linux has basically undergone a revolution in the last 18 months. It's now possible to pretty much play any game under the sun using Proton (Valve's homebrew Wine + DXVK) or Lutris (Wine manager and installation script repository). The only trouble is games with anti-cheat, which rules out a lot of online games including Fortnite, PUBG and others.
- uncle_j 7y ago
  You do realise that Proton and similar technologies decrease the incentive for developers to port their game to Linux? Why bother porting it when you can count on someone fixing it for you. As for playing any game under the sun. No it doesn't. A lot of things fail and don't work quite right. Also a lot of mods don't work which is half the reason to play games on PC.
  - Spivak 7y ago
    Look, at this point I’ll take a game that works well under Proton over the half-hearted abandonware ports that we were getting before. There are games that are native and run fantastically on Linux. But they were always the exception.
    - saalweachter 7y ago
      This reminds me of the "heightening the contradictions" political arguments.
  - yyyk 7y ago
    It's the other way around. There would be little incentive to port games to Linux without an existing gamer pool which can buy them, and there would be no gamer pool without an initial range of games... The only practical way to break that vicious circle was the emulation option. Linux gamers play on emulation, but appreciate native ports and form the (initial) buyer pool for Linux games. So Proton and co are the only reason there's any viable Linux gaming at all. Without Proton, every Linux gamer would have had a Windows install and play with that alone.

teruakohatu 7y ago

The only real changes they have been making is monetizing by adding cosmetics. As far as Linux goes this is a pure ROI play, nothing more. The mac support may have been removed due to Apple not supporting 32bit apps (and the expected return verse cost of going 64bit)

jeroenhd 7y ago

This was to be expected, when Epic Games, notorious for not giving a rat's ass about Linux support, acquired the studio behind Rocket League. Other titles from studios bought by Epic will likely follow if they have not already. This does pose the question on what happens to Linux players who have invested into digital purchases. Online functionality will be disabled so all items will basically be void and the game becomes mostly worthless. I also wonder if this means that Rocket League will not run on Google Stadia and its competitors, as those platforms mostly run on Linux systems.

Zhyl 7y ago
They also bought Easy Anti-Cheat. Same arguments apply.
- m-p-3 7y ago
  Which makes it a non-starter for any multiplayer games using EAC and Proton/Wine, and it would be unlikely to see a native Linux game using EAC considering Epic lack of interest in Linux. They're the new Nvidia of the Linux world. Hopefully a more crossplatform anticheat tool is available..
  - cferr 7y ago
    Rust (the game) uses EAC and has a Linux native client. At least it did last time I played it on OpenSUSE. I haven't played it in a while. The lead developer has expressed regret for supporting Linux. Oh yeah, 7 Days to Die also uses EAC on Linux.
Arelius 7y ago
> I also wonder if this means that Rocket League will not run on Google Stadia and its competitors, as those platforms mostly run on Linux systems. Firstly, what do you mean by competitors? I'm pretty sure none of xCloud, Playstation Now, or Nvidia Now use Linux systems. Secondly, I wouldn't read that far into it. I doubt this has much to do with supporting the Linux API, and more about other burdens of support for Linux desktops, dealing with packaging that can deal with differences in distros, systems, and drivers especially in the context of all the configuration and poor vulkan support. Likely make Linux as a platform not worth supporting. Where Stadia will almost certainly be evaluated separately like a standard game console due to it's (I assume) hardware and api stability. Of course, Stadia may also not be decided worth the burden based on it's player-base, but I am confident it'll be an orthogonal decision.

DevKoala 7y ago

I feel this is a horrible anti-consumer practice, but their ROI must be incredibly low. I don't remember the last time I played a game on a Mac. I wonder how Apple Arcade is doing.

criddell 7y ago
What's a better solution? Charge more for Linux and Mac versions?
- cbhl 7y ago
  Dedicated consoles. The Nintendo Switch runs Rocket League just fine. Once it's on there, you don't really have to worry about constant breaking changes from the operating system changing its audio subsystem or weird graphics drivers.
  - nobleach 7y ago
    The NVidia Shield runs it beautifully as well. (Same Tegra chip as the Switch).
- paxys 7y ago
  There is no better solution. For Mac - Apple has to make gaming a bigger priority, and that's clearly not going to happen. A ~$1000 upgradable Apple machine with a powerful graphics card that can run the latest games is a pipe dream. For Linux - It's the same problem as building any software for Linux that caters to the non-server non-developer segment. There just isn't enough of a business justification.
  - Nightshaxx 7y ago
    Acctually there were recently strong rumors Apple is going to do just that. Makes sense that Apple sees the growing gaming market and wants to get in on it. Them entering the market would be the incentive devs need to make their games work for Mac (and hopefully therefore Linux)
  - 7y ago

trynewideas 7y ago

So Epic buys Psyonix in May 2019, Rocket League is an Unreal Engine game, and less than a year later Epic/Psyonix drops support two supported Unreal Engine platforms. Is this isolated? Do I have any rational reason to sweat this as foreshadowing of Epic dropping those as UE4 platforms?

jedieaston 7y ago
Rocket League is on UE3, so hopefully not. They probably just didn’t want it to be patched for three platforms.
- trynewideas 7y ago
  Ah! That's the bit of context I was missing. That makes a lot more sense, thanks.
dx87 7y ago
It's probably more likely related to the EGS not running on Linux, and Psyonix saying that they are transitioning to only the EGS after they got bought by Epic.

dbg31415 7y ago

If you want to game on a Mac just fire up Bootcamp. Always blew me away how much better games ran on Windows vs. MacOS on the same hardware. Just night and day difference.

redisman 7y ago
I did that for a while but ended up buying a gaming PC for about $1000 and talk about a night and day difference to my $2000 Macbook. 100x the catalogue of games and 5x the performance.
- pornel 7y ago
  It's baffling that Apple puts $180 GPUs in $3000-$6000 computers.
m-p-3 7y ago
I hope Valve will manage to bring official Proton support to MacOS one day.
- Snetry 7y ago
  It may happen once wine supports running 32 bit applications on 64 bit wine
kgwxd 7y ago
How much is the Windows license?
- dingo_bat 7y ago
  Nice trick: Install an unlicensed copy of Win8 and get the free upgrade to Win10. It gets activated.

ryandrake 7y ago

Between these kinds of stories, companies abandoning robust and powerful Desktop applications for their mobile (toy-like in comparison) “apps”, companies dropping support for less-popular browsers, os vendors abandoning or downplaying cross-platform APIs like OpenGL, and the rise of halfway-house solutions like Electron, we seem to be headed towards another Dark Ages for cross-platform software. Charitably, this could be just companies saving developer time at the expense of users. Uncharitably, it’s explained by developer laziness and/or inability to learn cross platform development. I remember how frustrating it was in the late 90s being a desktop non-Windows user or non-Netscape user. We seem to be rapidly heading back to those bad days. Yet there’s no evil empire like Microsoft dominating the computing world and crushing cross-platform anymore like they did back then. It’s just kind of happening and it’s sad.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
It wasn't long ago that there were ~zero games for Linux/Mac on Steam. Now I see Linux/Mac icons on at least a third of the AAA titles. And the most popular games in the world (Dota, LoL, CS:GO, Fortnite, etc) are playable on Mac and sometimes even Linux. Seems pretty obvious that cross-plat is winning. Especially once you consider the most ubiquitous cross-plat vehicle of all: the browser. It's also the only platform with a built-in ad-blocker and development console, thus the most open and end-user-friendly.
- Snetry 7y ago
  It's true developers and so started supporting Linux and macOS more and more But considering Epic used to be a Linux supporter it's sad to see it get outright removed from RL

imnotlost 7y ago

Linux and macOS game development in a nutshell - spend $200K to make $10K, get 10x angry "support requests"

pippy 7y ago
If you earn $10k out of a ~15% to 10% marketshare, you've only earned about $100k total. You're not going to get your money back.
- floo 7y ago
  More like 3% when you combine linux and mac. That can make it hard to justify the cost. Still bs for an existing game with platform support from unreal though. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
  - smallstepforman 7y ago
    However, the number of available titles on Linux/Mac is small, so you become a big fish in small pond and take all the users money. Piracy on OSX is smaller, and they are typically wealthier and starving for content.
    - vernie 7y ago
      They have PS4s.
      - egypturnash 7y ago
        Yeah. My Mac's for sitting at the desk or taking to the cafe and getting shit done. The PS4's for sitting on the sofa playing games.
    - Jasper_ 7y ago
      No, not really. There's a wealth of titles available on Linux thanks to Humble Bundle and Valve funding ports. Never has made any money.

amelius 7y ago

Why can't they use a multiplatform GUI toolkit like Qt, and compile for all platforms?

colejohnson66 7y ago
Qt doesn’t cut it; it’s designed for something completely different: windowed GUIs, not (3D) games. It’s the same reason why you wouldn’t make a game using WinForms. Basically, games use a different architecture than GUIs.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  SDL w/OpenGL more or less covers the big three though
  - tuckerpo 7y ago
    SDL probably isn't performant enough for AAA titles.
    - newnewpdro 7y ago
      Uninformed nonsense, SDL gives you the graphics context and you directly use native calls. It even supports Vulkan these days.
      - tuckerpo 7y ago
        Hence the probably part of my comment. I wasn't speaking as an SDL authority.
JabavuAdams 7y ago
They could have used Unity to get good Windows and mac OS support, and theoretical Linux support, but that's a decision they would have had to make from the very start.
pjmlp 7y ago

tomc1985 7y ago

Yet another grand failure of the consumer-hostile Games-as-a-Service model

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

stevewillows 7y ago

I used to love Rocket League, but it seems like every time they make a change, it goes against the community. First they took some fun, casual games (alternate modes) and made them competitive. The competition isn't the worst, but doing this removed the ability to rematch. Since the games weren't as popular, you'd often find a really great group where both teams were fairly balanced and rematch a dozen times. This was fun. They took that away along with the 'Labs', which were alternate arenas. Some went into Rumble (Rocket League with fun tools), but it just wasn't as fun. With the recent move away from keys, they totally borked their item system. Suddenly near worthless items would cost the user $8. They may have adjusted this, but I've all but stepped away. It's a shame to see the game slowly go downhill. They had a perfect balance a few years ago that allowed casual and competitive people to enjoy the game. Combine this with the eSports, and everything should have cruised along nicely.

sandGorgon 7y ago

given the popularity of WSL on Windows 10..i think we will see Windows becoming the best Linux platform there is. A lot of gamers i know have switched to using WSL for development (unless they have political objections). I think it will be more likely in the future that Linux gamers be asked to become WSL Gamers In fact, WSL works so well (including Docker and Kubernetes stuff), that i have a strong suspicion that Microsoft sales staff have been leashed pretty deliberately for optics reasons.

peteforde 7y ago
After enjoying "the good years" on Mac, I've been a daily Ubuntu user for two years and given I'm not a heavy gamer, I don't jump into Windows that often. That said, I'm in the process of building a new primary machine and it's going to be WSL because I want to have it all: functional SteamVR, titles that work by default instead of pleasant surprise, not having to accept whatever monopoly-building bully-tactics Apple decides to force down the pipe... I know that, at least in Wall Street terms, Apple is now a lifestyle fashion accessory manufacturer that only supports Macs and OS X because they feel generous, but it still makes me really sad. They clearly don't want to play ball with the mainstream gaming world, that's for sure. And "Tim Apple" believes that AR is more important than VR, so I don't anticipate the VR front getting any love period. And so I fold my hand. I used to feel like using Mac OS or Ubuntu was a legitimate power move and not just a political act, but these days the only people who deliberately choose Apple or Linux as a daily-drive OS are just masochists when WSL is so well implemented. If the Windows kernel ended up being the best Linux infrastructure, there's a dark joke in there somewhere.
Jnr 7y ago
WSL has no real hardware access and still runs on NTFS which is terribly slow. Windows developers will probably try to fix it somehow but it is not there yet Another option is to run Windows on top of Linux. But it currently also has some drawbacks.
- sandGorgon 7y ago
  WSL2 (which im talking about ) is blazing fast. It runs a full linux kernel and not the WSL 1 NTFS emulation layer. https://medium.com/swlh/wsl-2-docker-edge-tech-preview-native-linux-containers-w-o-emulation-b41667e6dbef https://medium.com/swlh/wsl-2-docker-edge-tech-preview-nativ... It has full Docker Edge support now and CUDA support is upcoming. I'm genuinely impressed by WSL2

ryanmcdonough 7y ago

But they’ll support Windows 7 a product approaching EOL in a couple of weeks.

kgwxd 7y ago

I just shut down my work computers and switched over to my personal machine so I could jump into training mode to work on my dribbling, because I watched a few tips videos on lunch I was eager to apply, but decided to check my news feed first. Fuck. Cost of the game, 12 DLC packs, and 3 season passes just gone. 388 hours over 12 months to build skills I will never use again. And just as many hours watching others play. Rocket League was the one and only game I decided to break my no-centralized-or-DRM-protected-games rule for because it is an absolutely beautiful, pure-sport game. Psyonix made a fantastic game, Epic will destroy it. I knew how bad they were but really hoped they were just going to take this piece of art, not fuck with it, and just profit. The money I've spent on the game as a Linux user is easily measurable, but what about the, no less than 10, people I've inspired to buy the game and the people they in-turn inspired to buy the game? What about the toys my 3 year old wants because he sees me playing the game? What about when it would have been time for him to get a copy? What about all the friends he was going to inspire to get a copy? All because of a single Linux user that went against his own ideals hoping not to get fucked just this one time.

ohithereyou 7y ago
Rocket League costs $20 when it's not on sale. Say you get 50 people to buy the game. That's $1,000 in revenue, let's say that 80% of that is profit. So that's $800 that Psyonix/Epic make. I would imagine the staffing costs to keep Linux and macOS versions of the game running are more than $800/week.

remmargorp64 7y ago

Different platforms are better for different things. That's just a fact. This is why I use a desktop PC with windows 10 for PC gaming, Linux machines for my servers, and a Macbook Pro for programming work during the day.

Snetry 7y ago
Yeah but Windows isn't inherently better at gaming because it gives something the other platforms don't (DirectX12 can easily be replaced with Vulkan) It's a matter of the market choosing it's main Target and sticking to that
- uncle_j 7y ago
  That isn't true. Windows does provide something that other platforms don't. The APIs and program compatibility are supported forever in Windows. I can run the original Quake and DOOM on Windows 10 without any problems. A friend of mine like playing GTA 3, it didn't work properly with Windows 8.1. In an update this incompatibility (I forget the exact reason why) was fixed. That just doesn't really happen with Linux.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Vulkan still lacks quite a few DirectX 12 features, LunarG SDK doesn't have anything comparable to DirectXTK, NVidia designs their hardware DirectX first and then retroactively applies the features as Vulkan and OpenGL extensions. Intel drivers have been historically always much better in DirectX as in OpenGL, where they even used to lie about their available GL capabilities. AMD, since they dropped my card from their FOSS drivers, I don't have much fate on their FOSS love.

csdreamer7 7y ago

Epic started out saying that they would bring the Epic Store to Linux. That was removed. Then this. I am so glad I haven't bought anything on the Epic Store. I did buy this game on Steam, before the studio was bought by Epic. Tim Sweeney was right with GabeN complaining about Microsoft; saying Linux was a 'get out of jail free' card. Now he is establishing his own monopoly that is dependent on Microsoft's monopoly on Windows.

29athrowaway 7y ago

Will those users be refunded?

therealidiot 7y ago
I've just submitted a refund request, I'm not sure if it will be granted but I'd hope that others who do not run Windows will also consider making a refund request (unless offline play is your preference anyway)

kgwxd 7y ago

What excited me about RL is the pure sport of it and the insane amount fine grained mechanics one had to learn to get good. Are there any other games with those attributes that that can't be arbitrarily taken away from me?

rgun 7y ago
Dota 2 * Plethora of mechanics and combinations possible, make it impossible for two games to ever be the same. * Steep learning curve but very rewarding I am fairly sure it will stay around at least for 3-4 more years (given the current popularity and player base).
- kgwxd 7y ago
  Looks fun but I guess physics based mechanics is what I'm more interested in. And I'm pretty sure this could still potentially be taken away from me on a whim. No DRM and stand-alone servers are a prerequisite, I'm not falling for this shit ever again. This move by Epic was truly the last straw.

Jeaye 7y ago

I have Proton running RL consistently at 250 FPS using the following start command: PROTON_USE_D9VK=1 %command% -nomovie -high -AllowBackgroundAudio Without D9VK, specifically, the average FPS is around 145. Be sure to use the above, if you're playing with Proton!

kgwxd 7y ago
But for how long? Given how aggressive this move was (one damn month), I give it less than a year before it's not available in Steam anymore.
- RealStickman 7y ago
  They shouldn't be able to pull Rocket League from customers who already have it in their library. They couldn't do it with other games like Metro Exodus either.