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Coke has started doing this with their soda machines too. They found it's more profitable to put an RFID chip on the bottom of every paper cup and a sensor pad

Coke has started doing this with their soda machines too. They found it's more profitable to put an RFID chip on the bottom of every paper cup and a sensor pad on the machines rather than just let people refill the cups. I came across one in the wild when I made the mistake of visiting Universal Studios Orlando recently :/

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Yet another peripheral for the underpowered freestyle hardware to poll with 1000ms latency.
52-6F-62 7y ago
That is unreal. Fountain soda/pop is already dirt cheap for vendors.
- jdmichal 7y ago
  It's not about cost, it's about profit. It doesn't matter that it's dirt cheap, it matters that they can sell it for >>>dirt cheap.
- rainyMammoth 7y ago
  you don't seem to understand the concept of opportunity cost. In this case what is the optimal maximum they can extract for this product. The production cost is almost irrelevant.
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    No I understand perfectly well. What I find amazing is the dedication to extracting potentially a little more money from people who may buy one extra cola rather than allowing a refill when the production cost is next to 0, but leaves a more satisfied, and likely return, customer. Practices like this are likely to turn people off. The fact that they think they can do something like this just displays how much of a monopoly/duopoly this company actually knows it enjoys. Where else will their customers turn? There's nowhere to turn. So gouge them.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  Back in the olden days (1970s) the organization I was with threw a party. My job was to go to the local McD's and get some gallon boxes of syrup. This was then mixed at the party with carbonated water to make Coke. The interesting thing was I realized that the syrup cost $.03 per cup, and McD's was selling it for - I don't remember 45 years later but it was a lot. Puzzled, I asked about it and was told that McD's lost money on the hamburgers and more than made it up with the drinks and fries. It's also how movie theaters make money. They lose it on ticket sales, and make it up at the concession stand, especially on the soda. Similarly for restaurants. The drinks are the big moneymakers. Camera makers don't make money on the camera bodies, but on the lenses and accessories. Car dealers don't make money selling cars, they make it on the financing and the service.
  - darkkindness 7y ago
    This is insightful. It also massively calls into question if economic models on prices (CPI?) could ever keep up with reality, if trends like shrinkflation didn't make that impossible already.
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    My partner worked high up in a local small chain of boardgame cafes. She would stress how little it cost and how much profit was made on those drinks. I don't think the syrup costs much more than that, now! Somewhere in the few cents a glass range, and they can easily charge $2-4 for a pint of cola now.
quacked 7y ago
Maybe all the expensive theme parks are really just holding pens where corporations test out new marketing/crowd control schemes and devices on unsuspecting people so they can decide whether or not to deploy it on the rest of the US.
- berbec 7y ago
  "maybe"?
makerofspoons 7y ago
Coke is such a wildly wasteful company. So now not only are they introducing RFID plastic waste but also additional paper cups people are going to buy. Another example of their ridiculous wastefulness is integrating OLEDs into the wrappers of their plastic bottles to market Star Wars: https://www.engadget.com/2019/12/06/star-wars-coca-cola-oled-bottles/ https://www.engadget.com/2019/12/06/star-wars-coca-cola-oled...
schoen 7y ago
I searched for this and found out that it's a partnership with a company called ValidFill: https://www.validfill.com/about https://www.validfill.com/about
- dawnerd 7y ago
  Yep, and they in turn partner with Whirley, the company that makes all of the reusable cups
- AWildC182 7y ago
  How does one wake up every day and go to work there? You're just building the most inconsequential unnecessary trivial product to ever exist...
  - jfim 7y ago
    Not everyone is in the software industry with 2 messages per day from recruiters, and that probably beats working as a greeter or deep fryer attendant.
  - cglace 7y ago
    Must be nice in your ivory tower. 7 billion people can’t all be working on “the next big thing” most just want to get paid and enjoy life.
  - rainyMammoth 7y ago
    Which company do you work for? I hope that you don't work for a FAANG or any other similar bigtech as those have probably more negative output (mass capitalism surveillance) than this company.
SkyBelow 7y ago
When I read this I took it as something special the parks were doing because of how expensive the drinks are there and not something the soda companies are themselves engaging in. Not to say they are blameless as they likely did work with the parks in doing so, but I thought the primary cause was the parks and not the soda company.
miah_ 7y ago
When you are in a theme park or airport, expect everything to be designed to extract the maximum amount of dollars from your wallet. You are a captive audience. They have RFID in the soda dispensers because they want people to buy the $15 "free refill" cup. I have never visited Orlando Universal two days in a row so I don't know if the cup "works" more than 24 hours.
- dawnerd 7y ago
  Technically no, it wont. But if you find a nice employee you can typically get it activated for multiple days (and pay for it). Reactivations are fairly cheap considering how many fillups you get. You can use the cup any other visit as well, although I heard they've switched it up where the older cups no longer work - which is insane if true since it's the same tech. Guessing if it's true they want to have everyone buy a new cup.
jdmichal 7y ago
That's not Coke. I mean, Coke provides the technology to enable it, maybe. But Universal Orlando is the one responsible for requesting and implementing the feature. Though I wasn't aware of any use for paper cups... Last time I visited, it was only for the free refill periods of souvenir cups. You pay for refills for the entire day, and it enables your chip to then use those machines all day. The alternative was that you carry around the dated receipt and get refills from vendors. So overall it was a UX win; the economics are all the same, but users get better service. Cruise lines were the first place I saw this used, years before UO implemented it. They would have a couple FreeStyle machines scattered around the ship, that would work with the cup they would give you when you bought the beverages package. Again, overall a UX win, because they had the same packages before, but you would have to go to one of the bars or whatever to use it. EDIT: I also feel like saying that in both instances, the machines would still happily dispense plain water. So that's a nice thing.
- joezydeco 7y ago
  I encountered this system at a Disney resort hotel a long time ago. The explanation I read back then was that they used to sell souvenir mugs with free refills for the duration of the stay. But guests would come back the next year with their mugs and abuse the system by taking more refills without paying for another visit. So the RFID mug system enables the dispenser for the time duration of the guest visit (day, week, whatever). But now that means the dispenser also has to able to fill paper cups with single servings since the dispenser can't tell what is under the nozzle - a mug or a one-shot cup. So now the paper cups have RFID in them and that's how we got to where we are.
  - jdmichal 7y ago
    Interesting. My experience at UO was that the only place where you could get paper cups, the dispensers were behind the counter. So there was no need for the open dispensers to accept anything other than a validated chip. And same on the cruise ship; if you didn't have a beverage package, you go to a vendor to get a drink. (And if you did have a package, but just not your cup, they would see it on your ship ID.)
  - 7y ago
ben1040 7y ago
I read recently that the university I attended has put a system like this in the dining halls. Back when I went there 20 years ago, they’d sell a reusable cup for around $40 that got you 50 cent sodas all academic year long (it was otherwise maybe $2.50-$3 for a soda). You were on your honor to show your reusable cup at the cashier to be charged for a soda. As with the paper cups, you’d get free refills once you paid for a drink with your meal. Now they sell a prepaid RFID cup that has a certain number of fills programmed into it. If you use them all, you can add more to your cup account. Because you still need a chip to authorize the fountain either way, the disposable cups are also chipped and programmed to allow two fills before deactivating. It seems like a wasteful money grab at a place where it costs north of $50K/year to get in the door.
- hyperdimension 7y ago
  > If you use them all, you can add more to your cup account. We truly are living in the future here. Just not the one we expected.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago

Yet another peripheral for the underpowered freestyle hardware to poll with 1000ms latency.

52-6F-62 7y ago

That is unreal. Fountain soda/pop is already dirt cheap for vendors.

jdmichal 7y ago
It's not about cost, it's about profit. It doesn't matter that it's dirt cheap, it matters that they can sell it for >>>dirt cheap.
rainyMammoth 7y ago
you don't seem to understand the concept of opportunity cost. In this case what is the optimal maximum they can extract for this product. The production cost is almost irrelevant.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  No I understand perfectly well. What I find amazing is the dedication to extracting potentially a little more money from people who may buy one extra cola rather than allowing a refill when the production cost is next to 0, but leaves a more satisfied, and likely return, customer. Practices like this are likely to turn people off. The fact that they think they can do something like this just displays how much of a monopoly/duopoly this company actually knows it enjoys. Where else will their customers turn? There's nowhere to turn. So gouge them.
WalterBright 7y ago
Back in the olden days (1970s) the organization I was with threw a party. My job was to go to the local McD's and get some gallon boxes of syrup. This was then mixed at the party with carbonated water to make Coke. The interesting thing was I realized that the syrup cost $.03 per cup, and McD's was selling it for - I don't remember 45 years later but it was a lot. Puzzled, I asked about it and was told that McD's lost money on the hamburgers and more than made it up with the drinks and fries. It's also how movie theaters make money. They lose it on ticket sales, and make it up at the concession stand, especially on the soda. Similarly for restaurants. The drinks are the big moneymakers. Camera makers don't make money on the camera bodies, but on the lenses and accessories. Car dealers don't make money selling cars, they make it on the financing and the service.
- darkkindness 7y ago
  This is insightful. It also massively calls into question if economic models on prices (CPI?) could ever keep up with reality, if trends like shrinkflation didn't make that impossible already.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  My partner worked high up in a local small chain of boardgame cafes. She would stress how little it cost and how much profit was made on those drinks. I don't think the syrup costs much more than that, now! Somewhere in the few cents a glass range, and they can easily charge $2-4 for a pint of cola now.

quacked 7y ago

Maybe all the expensive theme parks are really just holding pens where corporations test out new marketing/crowd control schemes and devices on unsuspecting people so they can decide whether or not to deploy it on the rest of the US.

berbec 7y ago
"maybe"?

makerofspoons 7y ago

Coke is such a wildly wasteful company. So now not only are they introducing RFID plastic waste but also additional paper cups people are going to buy. Another example of their ridiculous wastefulness is integrating OLEDs into the wrappers of their plastic bottles to market Star Wars: https://www.engadget.com/2019/12/06/star-wars-coca-cola-oled-bottles/ https://www.engadget.com/2019/12/06/star-wars-coca-cola-oled...

schoen 7y ago

I searched for this and found out that it's a partnership with a company called ValidFill: https://www.validfill.com/about https://www.validfill.com/about

dawnerd 7y ago
Yep, and they in turn partner with Whirley, the company that makes all of the reusable cups
AWildC182 7y ago
How does one wake up every day and go to work there? You're just building the most inconsequential unnecessary trivial product to ever exist...
- jfim 7y ago
  Not everyone is in the software industry with 2 messages per day from recruiters, and that probably beats working as a greeter or deep fryer attendant.
- cglace 7y ago
  Must be nice in your ivory tower. 7 billion people can’t all be working on “the next big thing” most just want to get paid and enjoy life.
- rainyMammoth 7y ago
  Which company do you work for? I hope that you don't work for a FAANG or any other similar bigtech as those have probably more negative output (mass capitalism surveillance) than this company.

SkyBelow 7y ago

When I read this I took it as something special the parks were doing because of how expensive the drinks are there and not something the soda companies are themselves engaging in. Not to say they are blameless as they likely did work with the parks in doing so, but I thought the primary cause was the parks and not the soda company.

miah_ 7y ago

When you are in a theme park or airport, expect everything to be designed to extract the maximum amount of dollars from your wallet. You are a captive audience. They have RFID in the soda dispensers because they want people to buy the $15 "free refill" cup. I have never visited Orlando Universal two days in a row so I don't know if the cup "works" more than 24 hours.

dawnerd 7y ago
Technically no, it wont. But if you find a nice employee you can typically get it activated for multiple days (and pay for it). Reactivations are fairly cheap considering how many fillups you get. You can use the cup any other visit as well, although I heard they've switched it up where the older cups no longer work - which is insane if true since it's the same tech. Guessing if it's true they want to have everyone buy a new cup.

jdmichal 7y ago

That's not Coke. I mean, Coke provides the technology to enable it, maybe. But Universal Orlando is the one responsible for requesting and implementing the feature. Though I wasn't aware of any use for paper cups... Last time I visited, it was only for the free refill periods of souvenir cups. You pay for refills for the entire day, and it enables your chip to then use those machines all day. The alternative was that you carry around the dated receipt and get refills from vendors. So overall it was a UX win; the economics are all the same, but users get better service. Cruise lines were the first place I saw this used, years before UO implemented it. They would have a couple FreeStyle machines scattered around the ship, that would work with the cup they would give you when you bought the beverages package. Again, overall a UX win, because they had the same packages before, but you would have to go to one of the bars or whatever to use it. EDIT: I also feel like saying that in both instances, the machines would still happily dispense plain water. So that's a nice thing.

joezydeco 7y ago
I encountered this system at a Disney resort hotel a long time ago. The explanation I read back then was that they used to sell souvenir mugs with free refills for the duration of the stay. But guests would come back the next year with their mugs and abuse the system by taking more refills without paying for another visit. So the RFID mug system enables the dispenser for the time duration of the guest visit (day, week, whatever). But now that means the dispenser also has to able to fill paper cups with single servings since the dispenser can't tell what is under the nozzle - a mug or a one-shot cup. So now the paper cups have RFID in them and that's how we got to where we are.
- jdmichal 7y ago
  Interesting. My experience at UO was that the only place where you could get paper cups, the dispensers were behind the counter. So there was no need for the open dispensers to accept anything other than a validated chip. And same on the cruise ship; if you didn't have a beverage package, you go to a vendor to get a drink. (And if you did have a package, but just not your cup, they would see it on your ship ID.)
- 7y ago

ben1040 7y ago

I read recently that the university I attended has put a system like this in the dining halls. Back when I went there 20 years ago, they’d sell a reusable cup for around $40 that got you 50 cent sodas all academic year long (it was otherwise maybe $2.50-$3 for a soda). You were on your honor to show your reusable cup at the cashier to be charged for a soda. As with the paper cups, you’d get free refills once you paid for a drink with your meal. Now they sell a prepaid RFID cup that has a certain number of fills programmed into it. If you use them all, you can add more to your cup account. Because you still need a chip to authorize the fountain either way, the disposable cups are also chipped and programmed to allow two fills before deactivating. It seems like a wasteful money grab at a place where it costs north of $50K/year to get in the door.

hyperdimension 7y ago
> If you use them all, you can add more to your cup account. We truly are living in the future here. Just not the one we expected.