14 ms·

First Case of New Coronavirus Detected in U.S.

315 points by adenner 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
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kadoban 7y ago
Anyone have a sober perspective of how bad this is likely to get? Is this comparable to a bad but forgetten-by-the-next-year flu strain? To SARS? To the Spanish Flu?
- bart_spoon 7y ago
  I don't think we can know yet. It's infected around 300 people, 6 of whom have died, putting a mortality rate of around 2%. Thats not as bad as SARS, which was 10%, but its early. SARS ended up being restricted to around 8000 people, mostly concentrated in China, though eventually spreading to dozens of countries, but its impossible to say how far and wide this one could spread, especially given that the outbreak is occuring on the eve of Chinese New Year. According to some of the sources I've found online, coronaviruses tend to be much less easily spread from human to human than something like the flu, but just a few days ago officials were saying they didn't think this virus was transmissible between humans, which they now have confirmed is in fact possible, so clearly its a very fast developing situation.
  - Fomite 7y ago
    That mortality rate isn't at all reliable at this point - we have lots of unconfirmed cases which messes with the denominator, and we haven't had all the people who do have it develop their outcome. 2% is very much a best-case estimate right now.
- redis_mlc 7y ago
  SARS was about as lucky as you can get without pandemic. With the availability of international airline travel, there's no limit to how far and fast a disease can travel now. Toronto had a big SARS scare when one of the patients who was told to quarantine himself instead went to work ...
- clanged 7y ago
  On the average-case risk, it is unlikely to get "bad." (if bad is defined as being similar to SARS or MERS.) However, its current worst-case risk is similar severity, with n=(500-1000) individuals who may pass away fatally if it does get "bad."
- Fomite 7y ago
  I'm an infectious disease epidemiologist who has worked on Ebola and MERS (along with some other stuff). I'd peg it, right now, at SARS-levels of bad. Most early modeling estimates, from people who know their stuff, are estimating the number of infections at a few thousand. Bad in China, likely sporadic outbreaks elsewhere due to infection control failures treating hospitalized patients (i.e. the South Korean MERS cases).
vmchale 7y ago
good thing the federal government is led by a complete fucking idiot
- airstrike 7y ago
  Let's not make this about Trump, at least not just yet, shall we?
  - djohnston 7y ago
    Since it was flagged, can you tell me how they were trying to blame Trump for this?
    - davidw 7y ago
      A more polite way of saying it would be along the lines of: We're in trouble if a real crisis hits where we depend on leadership to be intelligent, truthful, and have our best interests as a country at heart.
      - geggam 7y ago
        Not sure we can blame the current leadership for the last 30+ years of issues. That said our current govt will surely follow the path to the most profit for big pharma. Of that I have no doubt.
        Fjolsvith 7y ago
        If its track record of starting medical cost transparency is any indication, I'd say it's following a different path than what benefits big pharma.
        davidw 7y ago
        I'm just reporting on the gist of what was said, that our current leadership is not up to the challenge of something really serious. I mean... it's hard to disagree. This is the guy who rants about windmill cancer, stared directly at the sun during the eclipse and thinks Article II of the constitution allows him to do "whatever he wants".
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
A traveler from China landing on US soil, and detected at the airport (Seattle). This isn't spreading in the US population... yet. (And won't be from this, if containment procedures in Seattle work... and if they didn't transmit it to others on the plane... and maybe a few other ifs.)
- bart_spoon 7y ago
  According to the Washington Post[0], it wasn't caught at the airport, and he isn't a traveller, he is a resident in the Seattle area returning from China. > Washington state health officials said the man, a resident of Snohomish County, Wash., returned from a trip to the region around Wuhan, where the outbreak began. He arrived at Seattle’s international airport last Wednesday. Shortly afterward, he began feeling ill and reached out to his health-care provider on Sunday. Local, state and federal officials quickly collected samples and sent them to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where his case was confirmed Monday as the coronavirus Officials say they are trying to track down people he may have had contact with. Sounds like he was on top of things, and so they identified things as quickly as possible, but the disease is not necessarily contained. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/01/21/coronavirus-us-case/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/01/21/coronavirus...
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    Hmm. The Reuters article says the same. Either it was updated, or I misread it. So... yeah. Maybe not so contained.
  - incompatible 7y ago
    > he isn't a traveller, he is a resident in the Seattle area returning from China. A traveller is somebody who travels, e.g., from Seattle to China and back.
    - bart_spoon 7y ago
      The implication seemed to be that it was someone passing through, as opposed to a resident. But yes, my read could have been wrong.
calidreaming 7y ago
Jesus christ, freaking Chinese communist party. First the pig flu which wipes out 50% of pig population in China https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-09-27/deadly-virus-has-slashed-china-s-pig-herd-by-half-rabobank-says https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-09-27/deadl.... Then plastic pollution which 80-90% comes from China. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti... Then the planning of building of hundreds of coal plants which is inefficiently managed. Now this shit which is human to human transmittable and is about to explode in the biggest human migration of the world during Chinese New Years, has affected estimated 1300 people https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/erteoq/wuhan_coronavirus_20_other_cities_in_china/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/erteoq/wuhan_coronav... and killed 6. get your shit together, you useless government. I can’t believe people used to say Chinese government think in centuries. What a bunch of boneheads
- derision 7y ago
  Don't forget the insane amounts of concrete. the country’s production in 2011-2013 surpassed U.S. production for the entire 20th century. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsecuritybeat.org/2018/09/crushing-environmental-impact-chinas-cement-industry/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsecuritybeat.org/2018/09...
tptacek 7y ago
Coronaviruses are transmitted in what seems to be the same manner as influenza and generate some of the same symptoms. Why do the worst coronaviruses, like SARS, transmit so slowly, while the flu is practically ubiquitous?
- hanniabu 7y ago
  Probably has to do with the conditions it can survive in. For example they may both be able to be spread by coughing, but the coronaviruses may not survive as long at room temperature and therefore have a smaller window to inoculate. Granted, this is purely just my guess as I have no actual idea.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Fomite 7y ago
    Both of them are enveloped viruses, so differential survival is somewhat unlikely. But there are a lot of things that go into how transmissible a virus is.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- aodin 7y ago
  While SARS does have a longer incubation period, typically 2-7 days compared to the common flu's 1-4 days, the "slow transmission" that you've witnessed is more likely the successful work of national and international public health agencies preventing its spread. Especially by means of contact tracing and quarantine. Seasonal flu variants have a lethality of around 0.1%. The Spanish flu of 1918 was around 2%. SARS has a fatality rate of around 10%. There is minimal difference in transmission between strains. The only thing preventing disaster is effective public health response.
  - UncleOxidant 7y ago
    MERS had a 36% fatality rate.
ryanmercer 7y ago
They suspected a man in Australia of having it and were awaiting test results yesterdayish too https://www.smh.com.au/national/first-australian-monitored-for-coronavirus-authorities-confirm-20200121-p53tc7.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/first-australian-monitored-f... There is also /r/China_Flu/ for those that wanta centralized location for news. I think this is certainly not a great thing but I urge people not to panic. Any time some sort of new disease starts to spread a portion of the population immediately overreacts and starts to get a little nutty "how do I protect myself? What should I buy? Will bleach kill it?! How about OmniCide, Madacide, Opticide?!?!". Keep in mind that colds and regular flu are going around right now too, if you feel sick it's probably not this virus. Last week my office had a stomach bug, by Friday a few people had bad head/chest colds, this week the stomach bug is all gone and half the office has a head/chest cold and definitely not this virus yet someone on second shift has a hospital mask on (and as far as I know don't have a valid medical reason to remotely justify it).
- satokema_work 7y ago
  I wish wearing hospital masks was more accepted. Out of the listed reactions, it's probably the least overreaction possible, especially if it's a fashionable one and not actually hospital color...
  - 0xff00ffee 7y ago
    I always thought wearing hospital masks was for infected people, not the other way around.
    - at-fates-hands 7y ago
      This is probably why it would carry a negative stigma here since that's been the norm in this country where the sick people have to wear masks, not the healthy people. I remember being in Urgent Care and having to wear a mask when SARS broke out and I had a cough that wouldn't go away. People wouldn't come near me. One guy came over, saw that I was wearing a mask and gave me a look as if to say, "Oh hey man, that's cool, I'll just stand here." and kind of side stepped away from me. In China, the pollution is so bad, people have been wearing masks for so long, seeing them in public isn't a big deal anymore. Here, in the US, you're right, its always been the sick people wear masks, not the healthy ones. I feel it would be incredibly hard to get people to overcome this ingrained idea since its so uncommon to see people out in public with surgical masks on.
glofish 7y ago
I feel like it has been so long since the swine flu, bird flu, H1N1 flu, and other flu scares that we are due for one. Like the recessions the flu scares are cyclical.
- deleted 7y ago
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- codegeek 7y ago
  Don't forget Ebola scare as well.
  - Fjolsvith 7y ago
    Ah, but they've developed a vaccine for Ebola. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/first-fda-approved-vaccine-prevention-ebola-virus-disease-marking-critical-milestone-public-health https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/first-fd...
- sveme 7y ago
  Maybe it‘s like acid rain - the scare is keeping it from becoming what it could potentially be. And at some point there will definitely be a major pandemic.
  - option 7y ago
    define “major pandemic”. By % of humans affected the trend was very clearly towards almost 0. By absolute number of people affected it also has been trending down since around 1900 despite the population growth
- mAritz 7y ago
  Bird flu (H5N8) is actually back in central Europe right now, coming in through eastern Europe from Central Asia.
  - eecc 7y ago
taiwanboy 7y ago
The Chinese government has had difficulties handling the situation. I think we might need WHO to jump in soon. (Chinese New Years is in 3 days and few hundred million people will travel in congested trains and flights. Also people in China usually don’t cover their mouths when they cough) Coronavirus: Chinese hospitals not testing patients, say relatives https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/21/coronavirus-chinese-hospitals-not-testing-patients-say-relatives https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/21/coronavirus-ch... Wuhan virus kills fourth patient, infects hospital staff amid fear of ‘super-spreader’ https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3046908/new-china-virus-likely-human-transmission-stage-infections https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3046908/new-... man in Wuhan infected with coronavirus went to hospital but got sent away, took a flight to Dalian & became Patient Zero in Dalian https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/erszdd/disease_control_with_chinese_characteristics_man/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/erszdd/disease_contr...
- UncleOxidant 7y ago
  If they have difficulty dealing with this in a country where the government has a lot of control over people's coming and going just think what it'll be like if it gets going in the US.
- tanilama 7y ago
  I think otherwise. If there is one government that can tackle this, it will be the Chinese government. It is much more powerful and effective to enforce crowd control than other countries. And you better hope it succeeds, for your own benefits.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  The WHO is a policy org. They don't have any power to do anything on their own. They can only recommend things.
- m3kw9 7y ago
  Maybe a million fevers a day in China
sodopro 7y ago
Bit alarming considering chinese new year is coming up.
geggam 7y ago
As someone who takes regular flights on planes I find this disturbing.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Enginerrrd 7y ago
  Wearing an N95 mask and washing your hands properly will prevent the overwhelming majority of transmission. Could someone still sneeze in your eye? Sure. Could you wear your mask improperly because you haven't been fit tested, yeah. But you sure can reduce your risk a lot.
  - 0xff00ffee 7y ago
    I just googled N95: I have a bunch of those in my toolshed! They look ominous. :) But I have 12 flights in the next 5 weeks from US to Europe to Israel so I may have to risk looking like a weirdo.
  - ohazi 7y ago
    > Could you wear your mask improperly because you haven't been fit tested, yeah. It is next to impossible to wear an N95 mask correctly.
    - Enginerrrd 7y ago
      They come in a lot of different flavors. I have been fit-tested several times with success. Some are definitely easier than others. Do I think that every 0.3 micron or above particle is getting filtered out by the mask for the duration that I wear one? Not really, but I do believe confidently that it is getting the vast majority. Certainly enough to measurably reduce risk.
    - Fomite 7y ago
      It's also not at all clear that N95 masks are meaningfully superior to surgical masks. One of several studies on the topic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868605/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868605/
yingw787 7y ago
I read on Reddit that Chinese New Year is the largest regularly occurring human migration event in the world. Millions of Chinese people gather on public transport and planes To go home to celebrate. It’s in a few days I think. Also I’m not sure how the CDC is preparing for this under 45, but given the state of the federal government I would guess it’s less prepared than the days of the Ebola scare. Hopefully things will not be too interesting. I hate it when things are interesting.
- deleted 7y ago
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- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  It'll be on January 25th.
  - dmix 7y ago
    Like a coming tsunami of people travelling. At least it's all over the country, not just in one place, but still tons of close contact on the train systems. There are some good docs on Chinese New Year transit on trains and it gets dicy and competitive for space.
    - dx034 7y ago
      To make it worse, Wuhan is one of the major hubs for people traveling east/west. It's a 11 million city that will see a lot more visitors and connecting traffic over the next weeks.
- eindiran 7y ago
  Wow, I had been under the impression that the Arba'een Pilgrimage[0] was the largest human annual migration but the Lunar New Year easily surpasses it. This article has some good info on the sizes of a few recurring migrations and their size: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/02/14/chinese-new-year-the-worlds-largest-human-migration-is-about-to-begin-infographic https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/02/14/chines... The infographic is absolutely crazy: https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2018/02/20180214_Migrations.jpg https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2018/02/... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arba%27een_Pilgrimage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arba%27een_Pilgrimage
UncleOxidant 7y ago
I feel like this administration with their anti-science bias and their cuts to the CDC may not be the best for dealing with the outbreak of a new virus.
- mattr47 7y ago
  Of course you blame Trump.
- dang 7y ago
  "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
matthewfcarlson 7y ago
As someone who lives quite close to the hospital in the article, it was interesting seeing reactions this morning at the office. Some people immediately wondered about their immuno compromised friends and family, while others (myself included) just sort of said "huh" and went about our day. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
- _cerv 7y ago
  I live in a building with a quite a few nurses that work at that hospital. It kind of scares me that one of them open mouth coughed in the elevator with me the other night. Probably nothing more than a tired nurse and a dry throat, but still kind of weird to read about a thing that is a block away from where you live.
  - rayhendricks 7y ago
    Hah after reading this there’s no way I’m getting near the light rail for the next month or two. It’s a direct line from SeaTac where people we be flying into from SE Asia after lunar new year is over, and is currently undergoing construction so railway cars are packed at rush hour.
yread 7y ago
If you're scared just read the wiki on SARS - the previous coronavirus infection - to refresh your memory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_SARS_outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_SARS_outbreak It was a LOT worse that time - Chinese government basically covering up for the first 6 months, virus isolated only much later, sequenced months later.
- Arn_Thor 7y ago
  The coverup is such an important part of why SARS turned out so bad. It mutated after the initial outbreak from a relatively benign virus to a much more deadly variety. (The longer the outbreak lasts and the more people are infected, the more likely such a mutation is) This time the Chinese government has been much more open (relatively), and the virus has been identified at a much earlier stage. I'd be pretty optimistic if it weren't for the Lunar New Year holiday, which could really screw up the efforts to contain the spread.
swamp40 7y ago
Reports are that China has just quarantined Wuhan, a city of 11 million people.
- peterburkimsher 7y ago
  Government officials are being prohibited from leaving, not regular citizens.
- nexuist 7y ago
  Logistically, how can they do this?
  - metalliqaz 7y ago
    China has the largest active military in the world, according to this list in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of...
  - rasz 7y ago
    Racoon city
- tpmx 7y ago
  "Zeng, who is leading the Chinese government's efforts to respond to the outbreak, made clear that his recommendation was not a government-imposed quarantine." Flights are still departing Wuhan: http://www.whairport.com/jc/ch/dep/depGlList.jhtml http://www.whairport.com/jc/ch/dep/depGlList.jhtml
- taiwanboy 7y ago
  Wuhan is in the middle of China, every transit passes through it. It’s like the Chicago of China. There is no way in hell the government is going to able to lock it down.
  - tomtompl 7y ago
    and yet they just did
catalogia 7y ago
The marketing department of the beer company must be livid.
- dpcan 7y ago
  Not if they're smart enough to capitalize on this. With just the right touch, they could potentially crush it with the Super Bowl coming. I don't know. Maybe a bunch of people sitting around holding Corona Light beers with hospital masks on. They are just looking at each other. Then at their beers. They can't take their masks off. One guy tries to drink it through the mask, just kind-of chokes. Another tries to pour it through the little cracks at the top of the mask... no good. Finally, one guy says screw-it, takes his mask of and drinks the beer. Everyone else follows. Then, to be a little tongue in cheek, a guy at the very end of the commercial coughs.
EdibleMarbles 7y ago
If anyone wants to track the progression of the virus, I created a quick site with a Google Maps embed to show where the virus has been found so far. I'll be improving it over the next few days. http://www.coronavirusmap.com/ http://www.coronavirusmap.com/
- TallGuyShort 7y ago
  Is it just me, or does it not even have Wuhan?
  - 361994752 7y ago
    Seems it only marks the countries where the virus has been found, not paticullar cities.
- King-Aaron 7y ago
  You're missing the confirmed case in Queensland, Aus
  - keyle 7y ago
    Person was released out of containment, was feared to have it.
    - King-Aaron 7y ago
      I was about to do a cheeky edit on that comment, but yeah, old mate was cleared :)
- starpilot 7y ago
  Here's a much better map: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.h...
exposay 7y ago
China has been covering it up for 2 months. Minimal action was taken to prevent the disease from spreading and they kept denying until a couple days ago when it was no longer possible to cover it up because it is spreading to neighboring countries who have been complaining for the whole time. Regional/local governments have been trying to downplay it because it makes them "look bad". It is essentially a replay of SARS. Only admit and take action when it's too late.
- bradly 7y ago
  Well, didn't they hide the true extent of the Great Famine as well for multiple decades?
- nickczj 7y ago
  China doesn't get to decide the scientific consensus. Teams of scientists spanning multiple countries + NGOs like the WHO make the risk assessment. The reason the scientific consensus was that there was no human-human transmission was because...there was no evidence of human-human transmission. All previous cases could be directly traced back to the market, and there were previously no clear evidence of healthcare workers or relatives with no exposure to the market but exposure to an infected individual getting sick. Unlike anonymous users online, professional scientists can't make a claim, especially a very serious one, without evidence. If they do so, later the public will crucify them if it turns out the virus actually cannot spread from human-human. It's only in the past three days that it because clear that there is evidence of people who don't have a direct link to the market being infected. A big reason for this breakthrough was that the genome of the virus was identified (by, yes, Chinese scientists working within two weeks of realizing a novel outbreak, which is also impressive). This genome sequence makes possible very sensitive tests for identifying infected people more accurately. Hence, in the light of this new information, the scientific consensus has been updated to reflect likely human-human transmission. Please stop spreading false information and unnecessary hatred. This only makes the response to a crisis worse.
  - makomk 7y ago
    All previous cases that had been reported to the WHO could be directly traced back to the market. That might be a rather important distinction if the rumours about regional and local governments covering up possible cases are accurate...
narrator 7y ago
First the swine flu kills half the pigs in China. Now this thing.
tobenortobe 7y ago
I read on the news first symptomes observed in USA,also here who[0] emergency prep. responses, given details about some cases [0]https://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/year/2020/en/ https://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/year/2020/en/
Fomite 7y ago
https://www.mobs-lab.org/2019ncov.html https://www.mobs-lab.org/2019ncov.html Current modeling estimates put the likely number of infections between 1 and 6.2 thousand, primarily concentrated in China.
- prepend 7y ago
  This estimate [0] puts it at 4,000 as of Jan 18. It’s weird to not have government numbers that are actionable and we have to use models that range from 1-9.7k. [0] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/news--wuhan-coronavirus/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-ana...
  - Fomite 7y ago
    It's actually not all that weird. The link I posted above is from a group that was funded by the NIH in a program called MIDAS (Modeling Infectious Disease Agent Study). The express goal was to produce modeling platforms usable by the government. Imperial's MRC group has a very similar mandate, IIRC. Where these numbers are coming from, and the range of uncertainty around them, is very much characteristic of an emerging infectious disease (bad early data, stochasticity, etc.).
yzh 7y ago
It is not SARS, but it is highly possible that it was caused by people who kill and sell wild animals in the live poultry market. Where these animals like gem-faced civet got virus from bats. It is a long-held tradition for certain regions in China to eat wild animals. We even have a Chengyu called: 山珍海味, meaning precious and tasty animals from mountains and seas. Most wild animals are not evolved to be eaten by human, so not like beef or pork, they do not taste well. People only eat it because they can. Because they want to show others that they can. This is sad.
- stevespang 7y ago
  And yes, Chinese traditions are responsible for not only this virus, but also extinction of rhinos and elephants by way of their horns, tigers by way of their genitals, sharks by way of their fins, and who knows what else. This article shows it's all because of meat eaters: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-20/china-s-food-markets-can-be-breeding-grounds-for-deadly-viruses https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-20/china-s-f... Perhaps they should be punished much more harshly, even tortured in public, if that is what it takes to get change. These are the same people who can imprison / brainwash a million Uyghurs - - yet cannot close down all the wet markets spreading viruses in their country.
- knolax 7y ago
  Literally every culture hunts wild game. This is such a weird thing to consider unique to China.
  - t0ughcritic 7y ago
    Do indian people?
  - corporate_shi11 7y ago
    What they're describing is different from the hunting culture that persists in developed societies. It's more like hunter gatherer hunting for bushmeat embedded in an agricultural and livestock raising society where such hunting is unnecessary so the hunt is more about status, which is a bit unique.
stevespang 7y ago
We are all having to suffer the idiots in China that eat wild animals from these markets and pick up bad diseases that now spread from human to human.
mamborambo 7y ago
An important side story is that CCP's active political interference of Taiwan's participation in World Health Organisation and other international coordination effort in the past few years, can affect Taiwan's ability to contain any pandemic from spreading. And since there is estimated 200,000 Taiwan nationals living across the strait, their mobility especially during the Spring festival can become a huge conduit for spreading infection from China into Taiwan. It is high time that the UN commits to a resolution to insulate shared global issues (hygiene and environment) from politics, and stop China from playing with fire again and again.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  > It is high time that the UN commits to a resolution to insulate shared global issues (hygiene and environment) from politics, and stop China from playing with fire again and again. To play devil's advocate, let's say China continues with her "eff you, no" foreign policy. Now what? The UN has limited powers to enforce such a resolution. What limited powers it has depend on cooperation by member nations, typically including a majority of the security council permanent members. None of those countries want to upset current relations with China, so the UN can't really coerce China to do anything.
- pishpash 7y ago
  From 2009 to 2016, Taiwan participated in the World Health Assembly under the name "Chinese Taipei", which has been a formula similar to its Olympics team that is known to be workable if health is the concern. Of course when the political winds changed, Taiwan no longer wanted to participate under this name, but you can't say with a straight face that CPC is solely at fault here. Taiwan wants to play politics just as much. Regardless, this has no bearing on containing pandemics. Taiwan sends a panel to the WHA anyway, just not under a country flag. Nice propagandistic farce that works for the domestic audience on both sides.
- dear 7y ago
  There has been critics in Asia on that the ex-Director General (2006-2017) of WHO, Margaret Chan, who was sponsored by China for the position, had been building up influence in the organization for China during her term so WHO would work in China's favour. Its effect is showing this time in how WHO handled this incident. Instead of taking a lead and look into the whether China had handled the pandemic properly upon its onset, WHO just parrot China's official stance, in fear of offending China. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Chan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Chan
xbmcuser 7y ago
This virus is going to spread a lot wider and faster in the next month as chinese new year is next week. Most people are going to their home town then back to major cities all over the world not just China.
Antoninus 7y ago
Scary stuff, I'm travelling with my family through China into Russia. Make sure you mask and hand sanitizer handy.
crazy5sheep 7y ago
I was in Guangdong when SARS happened in 2003, I have heard rumors for months until the Chinese gov eventually admitted there's such virus exists. Ever since then I basically have zero trust in the Chinese gov. For this time, since Chinese new year is coming, I had actually warned my coworkers do not go back to China, especially Wuhan, a couple days back. So bad not everyone listen, now they are kind of scared.
- taiwanboy 7y ago
  Yup SARS did not coincide with hundred of millions of people stuffed in closed compact train cars and plane seats for hours at a time. This coronavirus might mutate faster than we could predict. Nobody should be traveling to China right now
yashvanth 7y ago
The U.N. should declare an emergency to curb the spreading of the coronavirus(they are still talking over this like wtf!). Neighboring countries have amped up screenings of flyers from China.

315 points by adenner 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Anyone have a sober perspective of how bad this is likely to get? Is this comparable to a bad but forgetten-by-the-next-year flu strain? To SARS? To the Spanish Flu?

bart_spoon 7y ago
I don't think we can know yet. It's infected around 300 people, 6 of whom have died, putting a mortality rate of around 2%. Thats not as bad as SARS, which was 10%, but its early. SARS ended up being restricted to around 8000 people, mostly concentrated in China, though eventually spreading to dozens of countries, but its impossible to say how far and wide this one could spread, especially given that the outbreak is occuring on the eve of Chinese New Year. According to some of the sources I've found online, coronaviruses tend to be much less easily spread from human to human than something like the flu, but just a few days ago officials were saying they didn't think this virus was transmissible between humans, which they now have confirmed is in fact possible, so clearly its a very fast developing situation.
- Fomite 7y ago
  That mortality rate isn't at all reliable at this point - we have lots of unconfirmed cases which messes with the denominator, and we haven't had all the people who do have it develop their outcome. 2% is very much a best-case estimate right now.
redis_mlc 7y ago
SARS was about as lucky as you can get without pandemic. With the availability of international airline travel, there's no limit to how far and fast a disease can travel now. Toronto had a big SARS scare when one of the patients who was told to quarantine himself instead went to work ...
clanged 7y ago
On the average-case risk, it is unlikely to get "bad." (if bad is defined as being similar to SARS or MERS.) However, its current worst-case risk is similar severity, with n=(500-1000) individuals who may pass away fatally if it does get "bad."
Fomite 7y ago
I'm an infectious disease epidemiologist who has worked on Ebola and MERS (along with some other stuff). I'd peg it, right now, at SARS-levels of bad. Most early modeling estimates, from people who know their stuff, are estimating the number of infections at a few thousand. Bad in China, likely sporadic outbreaks elsewhere due to infection control failures treating hospitalized patients (i.e. the South Korean MERS cases).

vmchale 7y ago

good thing the federal government is led by a complete fucking idiot

airstrike 7y ago
Let's not make this about Trump, at least not just yet, shall we?
- djohnston 7y ago
  Since it was flagged, can you tell me how they were trying to blame Trump for this?
  - davidw 7y ago
    A more polite way of saying it would be along the lines of: We're in trouble if a real crisis hits where we depend on leadership to be intelligent, truthful, and have our best interests as a country at heart.
    - geggam 7y ago
      Not sure we can blame the current leadership for the last 30+ years of issues. That said our current govt will surely follow the path to the most profit for big pharma. Of that I have no doubt.
      - Fjolsvith 7y ago
        If its track record of starting medical cost transparency is any indication, I'd say it's following a different path than what benefits big pharma.
      - davidw 7y ago
        I'm just reporting on the gist of what was said, that our current leadership is not up to the challenge of something really serious. I mean... it's hard to disagree. This is the guy who rants about windmill cancer, stared directly at the sun during the eclipse and thinks Article II of the constitution allows him to do "whatever he wants".

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

A traveler from China landing on US soil, and detected at the airport (Seattle). This isn't spreading in the US population... yet. (And won't be from this, if containment procedures in Seattle work... and if they didn't transmit it to others on the plane... and maybe a few other ifs.)

bart_spoon 7y ago
According to the Washington Post[0], it wasn't caught at the airport, and he isn't a traveller, he is a resident in the Seattle area returning from China. > Washington state health officials said the man, a resident of Snohomish County, Wash., returned from a trip to the region around Wuhan, where the outbreak began. He arrived at Seattle’s international airport last Wednesday. Shortly afterward, he began feeling ill and reached out to his health-care provider on Sunday. Local, state and federal officials quickly collected samples and sent them to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where his case was confirmed Monday as the coronavirus Officials say they are trying to track down people he may have had contact with. Sounds like he was on top of things, and so they identified things as quickly as possible, but the disease is not necessarily contained. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/01/21/coronavirus-us-case/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/01/21/coronavirus...
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  Hmm. The Reuters article says the same. Either it was updated, or I misread it. So... yeah. Maybe not so contained.
- incompatible 7y ago
  > he isn't a traveller, he is a resident in the Seattle area returning from China. A traveller is somebody who travels, e.g., from Seattle to China and back.
  - bart_spoon 7y ago
    The implication seemed to be that it was someone passing through, as opposed to a resident. But yes, my read could have been wrong.

calidreaming 7y ago

Jesus christ, freaking Chinese communist party. First the pig flu which wipes out 50% of pig population in China https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-09-27/deadly-virus-has-slashed-china-s-pig-herd-by-half-rabobank-says https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-09-27/deadl.... Then plastic pollution which 80-90% comes from China. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti... Then the planning of building of hundreds of coal plants which is inefficiently managed. Now this shit which is human to human transmittable and is about to explode in the biggest human migration of the world during Chinese New Years, has affected estimated 1300 people https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/erteoq/wuhan_coronavirus_20_other_cities_in_china/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/erteoq/wuhan_coronav... and killed 6. get your shit together, you useless government. I can’t believe people used to say Chinese government think in centuries. What a bunch of boneheads

derision 7y ago
Don't forget the insane amounts of concrete. the country’s production in 2011-2013 surpassed U.S. production for the entire 20th century. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsecuritybeat.org/2018/09/crushing-environmental-impact-chinas-cement-industry/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsecuritybeat.org/2018/09...

tptacek 7y ago

Coronaviruses are transmitted in what seems to be the same manner as influenza and generate some of the same symptoms. Why do the worst coronaviruses, like SARS, transmit so slowly, while the flu is practically ubiquitous?

hanniabu 7y ago
Probably has to do with the conditions it can survive in. For example they may both be able to be spread by coughing, but the coronaviruses may not survive as long at room temperature and therefore have a smaller window to inoculate. Granted, this is purely just my guess as I have no actual idea.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Fomite 7y ago
  Both of them are enveloped viruses, so differential survival is somewhat unlikely. But there are a lot of things that go into how transmissible a virus is.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
aodin 7y ago
While SARS does have a longer incubation period, typically 2-7 days compared to the common flu's 1-4 days, the "slow transmission" that you've witnessed is more likely the successful work of national and international public health agencies preventing its spread. Especially by means of contact tracing and quarantine. Seasonal flu variants have a lethality of around 0.1%. The Spanish flu of 1918 was around 2%. SARS has a fatality rate of around 10%. There is minimal difference in transmission between strains. The only thing preventing disaster is effective public health response.
- UncleOxidant 7y ago
  MERS had a 36% fatality rate.

ryanmercer 7y ago

They suspected a man in Australia of having it and were awaiting test results yesterdayish too https://www.smh.com.au/national/first-australian-monitored-for-coronavirus-authorities-confirm-20200121-p53tc7.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/first-australian-monitored-f... There is also /r/China_Flu/ for those that wanta centralized location for news. I think this is certainly not a great thing but I urge people not to panic. Any time some sort of new disease starts to spread a portion of the population immediately overreacts and starts to get a little nutty "how do I protect myself? What should I buy? Will bleach kill it?! How about OmniCide, Madacide, Opticide?!?!". Keep in mind that colds and regular flu are going around right now too, if you feel sick it's probably not this virus. Last week my office had a stomach bug, by Friday a few people had bad head/chest colds, this week the stomach bug is all gone and half the office has a head/chest cold and definitely not this virus yet someone on second shift has a hospital mask on (and as far as I know don't have a valid medical reason to remotely justify it).

satokema_work 7y ago
I wish wearing hospital masks was more accepted. Out of the listed reactions, it's probably the least overreaction possible, especially if it's a fashionable one and not actually hospital color...
- 0xff00ffee 7y ago
  I always thought wearing hospital masks was for infected people, not the other way around.
  - at-fates-hands 7y ago
    This is probably why it would carry a negative stigma here since that's been the norm in this country where the sick people have to wear masks, not the healthy people. I remember being in Urgent Care and having to wear a mask when SARS broke out and I had a cough that wouldn't go away. People wouldn't come near me. One guy came over, saw that I was wearing a mask and gave me a look as if to say, "Oh hey man, that's cool, I'll just stand here." and kind of side stepped away from me. In China, the pollution is so bad, people have been wearing masks for so long, seeing them in public isn't a big deal anymore. Here, in the US, you're right, its always been the sick people wear masks, not the healthy ones. I feel it would be incredibly hard to get people to overcome this ingrained idea since its so uncommon to see people out in public with surgical masks on.

glofish 7y ago

I feel like it has been so long since the swine flu, bird flu, H1N1 flu, and other flu scares that we are due for one. Like the recessions the flu scares are cyclical.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
codegeek 7y ago
Don't forget Ebola scare as well.
- Fjolsvith 7y ago
  Ah, but they've developed a vaccine for Ebola. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/first-fda-approved-vaccine-prevention-ebola-virus-disease-marking-critical-milestone-public-health https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/first-fd...
sveme 7y ago
Maybe it‘s like acid rain - the scare is keeping it from becoming what it could potentially be. And at some point there will definitely be a major pandemic.
- option 7y ago
  define “major pandemic”. By % of humans affected the trend was very clearly towards almost 0. By absolute number of people affected it also has been trending down since around 1900 despite the population growth
mAritz 7y ago
Bird flu (H5N8) is actually back in central Europe right now, coming in through eastern Europe from Central Asia.
- eecc 7y ago

taiwanboy 7y ago

The Chinese government has had difficulties handling the situation. I think we might need WHO to jump in soon. (Chinese New Years is in 3 days and few hundred million people will travel in congested trains and flights. Also people in China usually don’t cover their mouths when they cough) Coronavirus: Chinese hospitals not testing patients, say relatives https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/21/coronavirus-chinese-hospitals-not-testing-patients-say-relatives https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/21/coronavirus-ch... Wuhan virus kills fourth patient, infects hospital staff amid fear of ‘super-spreader’ https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3046908/new-china-virus-likely-human-transmission-stage-infections https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3046908/new-... man in Wuhan infected with coronavirus went to hospital but got sent away, took a flight to Dalian & became Patient Zero in Dalian https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/erszdd/disease_control_with_chinese_characteristics_man/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/erszdd/disease_contr...

UncleOxidant 7y ago
If they have difficulty dealing with this in a country where the government has a lot of control over people's coming and going just think what it'll be like if it gets going in the US.
tanilama 7y ago
I think otherwise. If there is one government that can tackle this, it will be the Chinese government. It is much more powerful and effective to enforce crowd control than other countries. And you better hope it succeeds, for your own benefits.
chrisco255 7y ago
The WHO is a policy org. They don't have any power to do anything on their own. They can only recommend things.
m3kw9 7y ago
Maybe a million fevers a day in China

sodopro 7y ago

Bit alarming considering chinese new year is coming up.

geggam 7y ago

As someone who takes regular flights on planes I find this disturbing.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Enginerrrd 7y ago
Wearing an N95 mask and washing your hands properly will prevent the overwhelming majority of transmission. Could someone still sneeze in your eye? Sure. Could you wear your mask improperly because you haven't been fit tested, yeah. But you sure can reduce your risk a lot.
- 0xff00ffee 7y ago
  I just googled N95: I have a bunch of those in my toolshed! They look ominous. :) But I have 12 flights in the next 5 weeks from US to Europe to Israel so I may have to risk looking like a weirdo.
- ohazi 7y ago
  > Could you wear your mask improperly because you haven't been fit tested, yeah. It is next to impossible to wear an N95 mask correctly.
  - Enginerrrd 7y ago
    They come in a lot of different flavors. I have been fit-tested several times with success. Some are definitely easier than others. Do I think that every 0.3 micron or above particle is getting filtered out by the mask for the duration that I wear one? Not really, but I do believe confidently that it is getting the vast majority. Certainly enough to measurably reduce risk.
  - Fomite 7y ago
    It's also not at all clear that N95 masks are meaningfully superior to surgical masks. One of several studies on the topic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868605/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868605/

yingw787 7y ago

I read on Reddit that Chinese New Year is the largest regularly occurring human migration event in the world. Millions of Chinese people gather on public transport and planes To go home to celebrate. It’s in a few days I think. Also I’m not sure how the CDC is preparing for this under 45, but given the state of the federal government I would guess it’s less prepared than the days of the Ebola scare. Hopefully things will not be too interesting. I hate it when things are interesting.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lazyasciiart 7y ago
It'll be on January 25th.
- dmix 7y ago
  Like a coming tsunami of people travelling. At least it's all over the country, not just in one place, but still tons of close contact on the train systems. There are some good docs on Chinese New Year transit on trains and it gets dicy and competitive for space.
  - dx034 7y ago
    To make it worse, Wuhan is one of the major hubs for people traveling east/west. It's a 11 million city that will see a lot more visitors and connecting traffic over the next weeks.
eindiran 7y ago
Wow, I had been under the impression that the Arba'een Pilgrimage[0] was the largest human annual migration but the Lunar New Year easily surpasses it. This article has some good info on the sizes of a few recurring migrations and their size: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/02/14/chinese-new-year-the-worlds-largest-human-migration-is-about-to-begin-infographic https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/02/14/chines... The infographic is absolutely crazy: https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2018/02/20180214_Migrations.jpg https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2018/02/... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arba%27een_Pilgrimage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arba%27een_Pilgrimage

UncleOxidant 7y ago

I feel like this administration with their anti-science bias and their cuts to the CDC may not be the best for dealing with the outbreak of a new virus.

mattr47 7y ago
Of course you blame Trump.
dang 7y ago
"Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

matthewfcarlson 7y ago

As someone who lives quite close to the hospital in the article, it was interesting seeing reactions this morning at the office. Some people immediately wondered about their immuno compromised friends and family, while others (myself included) just sort of said "huh" and went about our day. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

_cerv 7y ago
I live in a building with a quite a few nurses that work at that hospital. It kind of scares me that one of them open mouth coughed in the elevator with me the other night. Probably nothing more than a tired nurse and a dry throat, but still kind of weird to read about a thing that is a block away from where you live.
- rayhendricks 7y ago
  Hah after reading this there’s no way I’m getting near the light rail for the next month or two. It’s a direct line from SeaTac where people we be flying into from SE Asia after lunar new year is over, and is currently undergoing construction so railway cars are packed at rush hour.

yread 7y ago

If you're scared just read the wiki on SARS - the previous coronavirus infection - to refresh your memory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_SARS_outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_SARS_outbreak It was a LOT worse that time - Chinese government basically covering up for the first 6 months, virus isolated only much later, sequenced months later.

Arn_Thor 7y ago
The coverup is such an important part of why SARS turned out so bad. It mutated after the initial outbreak from a relatively benign virus to a much more deadly variety. (The longer the outbreak lasts and the more people are infected, the more likely such a mutation is) This time the Chinese government has been much more open (relatively), and the virus has been identified at a much earlier stage. I'd be pretty optimistic if it weren't for the Lunar New Year holiday, which could really screw up the efforts to contain the spread.

swamp40 7y ago

Reports are that China has just quarantined Wuhan, a city of 11 million people.

peterburkimsher 7y ago
Government officials are being prohibited from leaving, not regular citizens.
nexuist 7y ago
Logistically, how can they do this?
- metalliqaz 7y ago
  China has the largest active military in the world, according to this list in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of...
- rasz 7y ago
  Racoon city
tpmx 7y ago
"Zeng, who is leading the Chinese government's efforts to respond to the outbreak, made clear that his recommendation was not a government-imposed quarantine." Flights are still departing Wuhan: http://www.whairport.com/jc/ch/dep/depGlList.jhtml http://www.whairport.com/jc/ch/dep/depGlList.jhtml
taiwanboy 7y ago
Wuhan is in the middle of China, every transit passes through it. It’s like the Chicago of China. There is no way in hell the government is going to able to lock it down.
- tomtompl 7y ago
  and yet they just did

catalogia 7y ago

The marketing department of the beer company must be livid.

dpcan 7y ago
Not if they're smart enough to capitalize on this. With just the right touch, they could potentially crush it with the Super Bowl coming. I don't know. Maybe a bunch of people sitting around holding Corona Light beers with hospital masks on. They are just looking at each other. Then at their beers. They can't take their masks off. One guy tries to drink it through the mask, just kind-of chokes. Another tries to pour it through the little cracks at the top of the mask... no good. Finally, one guy says screw-it, takes his mask of and drinks the beer. Everyone else follows. Then, to be a little tongue in cheek, a guy at the very end of the commercial coughs.

EdibleMarbles 7y ago

If anyone wants to track the progression of the virus, I created a quick site with a Google Maps embed to show where the virus has been found so far. I'll be improving it over the next few days. http://www.coronavirusmap.com/ http://www.coronavirusmap.com/

TallGuyShort 7y ago
Is it just me, or does it not even have Wuhan?
- 361994752 7y ago
  Seems it only marks the countries where the virus has been found, not paticullar cities.
King-Aaron 7y ago
You're missing the confirmed case in Queensland, Aus
- keyle 7y ago
  Person was released out of containment, was feared to have it.
  - King-Aaron 7y ago
    I was about to do a cheeky edit on that comment, but yeah, old mate was cleared :)
starpilot 7y ago
Here's a much better map: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.h...

exposay 7y ago

China has been covering it up for 2 months. Minimal action was taken to prevent the disease from spreading and they kept denying until a couple days ago when it was no longer possible to cover it up because it is spreading to neighboring countries who have been complaining for the whole time. Regional/local governments have been trying to downplay it because it makes them "look bad". It is essentially a replay of SARS. Only admit and take action when it's too late.

bradly 7y ago
Well, didn't they hide the true extent of the Great Famine as well for multiple decades?
nickczj 7y ago
China doesn't get to decide the scientific consensus. Teams of scientists spanning multiple countries + NGOs like the WHO make the risk assessment. The reason the scientific consensus was that there was no human-human transmission was because...there was no evidence of human-human transmission. All previous cases could be directly traced back to the market, and there were previously no clear evidence of healthcare workers or relatives with no exposure to the market but exposure to an infected individual getting sick. Unlike anonymous users online, professional scientists can't make a claim, especially a very serious one, without evidence. If they do so, later the public will crucify them if it turns out the virus actually cannot spread from human-human. It's only in the past three days that it because clear that there is evidence of people who don't have a direct link to the market being infected. A big reason for this breakthrough was that the genome of the virus was identified (by, yes, Chinese scientists working within two weeks of realizing a novel outbreak, which is also impressive). This genome sequence makes possible very sensitive tests for identifying infected people more accurately. Hence, in the light of this new information, the scientific consensus has been updated to reflect likely human-human transmission. Please stop spreading false information and unnecessary hatred. This only makes the response to a crisis worse.
- makomk 7y ago
  All previous cases that had been reported to the WHO could be directly traced back to the market. That might be a rather important distinction if the rumours about regional and local governments covering up possible cases are accurate...

narrator 7y ago

First the swine flu kills half the pigs in China. Now this thing.

tobenortobe 7y ago

I read on the news first symptomes observed in USA,also here who[0] emergency prep. responses, given details about some cases [0]https://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/year/2020/en/ https://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/year/2020/en/

Fomite 7y ago

https://www.mobs-lab.org/2019ncov.html https://www.mobs-lab.org/2019ncov.html Current modeling estimates put the likely number of infections between 1 and 6.2 thousand, primarily concentrated in China.

prepend 7y ago
This estimate [0] puts it at 4,000 as of Jan 18. It’s weird to not have government numbers that are actionable and we have to use models that range from 1-9.7k. [0] https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/news--wuhan-coronavirus/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-ana...
- Fomite 7y ago
  It's actually not all that weird. The link I posted above is from a group that was funded by the NIH in a program called MIDAS (Modeling Infectious Disease Agent Study). The express goal was to produce modeling platforms usable by the government. Imperial's MRC group has a very similar mandate, IIRC. Where these numbers are coming from, and the range of uncertainty around them, is very much characteristic of an emerging infectious disease (bad early data, stochasticity, etc.).

yzh 7y ago

It is not SARS, but it is highly possible that it was caused by people who kill and sell wild animals in the live poultry market. Where these animals like gem-faced civet got virus from bats. It is a long-held tradition for certain regions in China to eat wild animals. We even have a Chengyu called: 山珍海味, meaning precious and tasty animals from mountains and seas. Most wild animals are not evolved to be eaten by human, so not like beef or pork, they do not taste well. People only eat it because they can. Because they want to show others that they can. This is sad.

stevespang 7y ago
And yes, Chinese traditions are responsible for not only this virus, but also extinction of rhinos and elephants by way of their horns, tigers by way of their genitals, sharks by way of their fins, and who knows what else. This article shows it's all because of meat eaters: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-20/china-s-food-markets-can-be-breeding-grounds-for-deadly-viruses https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-20/china-s-f... Perhaps they should be punished much more harshly, even tortured in public, if that is what it takes to get change. These are the same people who can imprison / brainwash a million Uyghurs - - yet cannot close down all the wet markets spreading viruses in their country.
knolax 7y ago
Literally every culture hunts wild game. This is such a weird thing to consider unique to China.
- t0ughcritic 7y ago
  Do indian people?
- corporate_shi11 7y ago
  What they're describing is different from the hunting culture that persists in developed societies. It's more like hunter gatherer hunting for bushmeat embedded in an agricultural and livestock raising society where such hunting is unnecessary so the hunt is more about status, which is a bit unique.

stevespang 7y ago

We are all having to suffer the idiots in China that eat wild animals from these markets and pick up bad diseases that now spread from human to human.

mamborambo 7y ago

An important side story is that CCP's active political interference of Taiwan's participation in World Health Organisation and other international coordination effort in the past few years, can affect Taiwan's ability to contain any pandemic from spreading. And since there is estimated 200,000 Taiwan nationals living across the strait, their mobility especially during the Spring festival can become a huge conduit for spreading infection from China into Taiwan. It is high time that the UN commits to a resolution to insulate shared global issues (hygiene and environment) from politics, and stop China from playing with fire again and again.

big_chungus 7y ago
> It is high time that the UN commits to a resolution to insulate shared global issues (hygiene and environment) from politics, and stop China from playing with fire again and again. To play devil's advocate, let's say China continues with her "eff you, no" foreign policy. Now what? The UN has limited powers to enforce such a resolution. What limited powers it has depend on cooperation by member nations, typically including a majority of the security council permanent members. None of those countries want to upset current relations with China, so the UN can't really coerce China to do anything.
pishpash 7y ago
From 2009 to 2016, Taiwan participated in the World Health Assembly under the name "Chinese Taipei", which has been a formula similar to its Olympics team that is known to be workable if health is the concern. Of course when the political winds changed, Taiwan no longer wanted to participate under this name, but you can't say with a straight face that CPC is solely at fault here. Taiwan wants to play politics just as much. Regardless, this has no bearing on containing pandemics. Taiwan sends a panel to the WHA anyway, just not under a country flag. Nice propagandistic farce that works for the domestic audience on both sides.
dear 7y ago
There has been critics in Asia on that the ex-Director General (2006-2017) of WHO, Margaret Chan, who was sponsored by China for the position, had been building up influence in the organization for China during her term so WHO would work in China's favour. Its effect is showing this time in how WHO handled this incident. Instead of taking a lead and look into the whether China had handled the pandemic properly upon its onset, WHO just parrot China's official stance, in fear of offending China. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Chan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Chan

xbmcuser 7y ago

This virus is going to spread a lot wider and faster in the next month as chinese new year is next week. Most people are going to their home town then back to major cities all over the world not just China.

Antoninus 7y ago

Scary stuff, I'm travelling with my family through China into Russia. Make sure you mask and hand sanitizer handy.

crazy5sheep 7y ago

I was in Guangdong when SARS happened in 2003, I have heard rumors for months until the Chinese gov eventually admitted there's such virus exists. Ever since then I basically have zero trust in the Chinese gov. For this time, since Chinese new year is coming, I had actually warned my coworkers do not go back to China, especially Wuhan, a couple days back. So bad not everyone listen, now they are kind of scared.

taiwanboy 7y ago
Yup SARS did not coincide with hundred of millions of people stuffed in closed compact train cars and plane seats for hours at a time. This coronavirus might mutate faster than we could predict. Nobody should be traveling to China right now

yashvanth 7y ago

The U.N. should declare an emergency to curb the spreading of the coronavirus(they are still talking over this like wtf!). Neighboring countries have amped up screenings of flyers from China.