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Both of my parents are doctors. In high school I had real thoughts of going into medicine. They strongly discouraged me towards going into that field. In colleg

• mbbutler 7y ago
  It's not that tough of a sell when you consider that many/most medical students are math-phobic and would most likely be unable to obtain a high-paying SWE gig in lieu of becoming a doctor. There is a significant difference between the skillset that produces a medical student (work ethic and drive) and a SWE (analytical reasoning).
  • NotSammyHagar 7y ago
    That doesn't seem right to me. They have to get through chemistry and physics. They have to memorize a giant decision tree that they employee when evaluating people, questions to ask. They have to adjust that over time, then they get a speciality and they learn new things. There's a difference in skill set that is developed over time, but doctors have to be able to have mental models of how bodies work, how things work in the body, "just like us".
• pkaye 7y ago
  Another solution is allow more doctors to be licensed so they don't need to be as overworked.
  • sodosopa 7y ago
    Is that from lowering educational requirements or from lowering standards?
    • christophilus 7y ago
      Neither. It’s from removing artificial caps.
      • sodosopa 7y ago
        Thanks for the clarification.
  • rednerrus 7y ago
    AAMC will never let this happen.
    • wang_li 7y ago
      Having waited several months to get an appointment with a urologist in the PNW, I thought of a solution to this problem. Anytime the waiting time to see a practitioner of a particular specialty exceeds some predetermined time, the top marginal income tax rate for those who practice that specialty becomes 90% until the wait times are within the desired range of 2-4 weeks. It won't take long for the current practitioners to demand that schools produce more graduates. The artificial scarcity is bullshit and we shouldn't put up with it.
      • refurb 7y ago
        Your solution is to use punitive tax rates on people so they'll lobby the people who actually decide how many slots there are? Really?
        • wang_li 7y ago
          It's industry trade organizations that limit the number of slots at medical schools and residencies. A punitive tax on the members of the organization that has artificially limited the number of practitioners seems perfectly targeted.
• Spooky23 7y ago
  I ran into the oncologist that took care of someone close to me in a social setting and we ended up talking for awhile. We were talking about getting ready for the holidays, etc and she expressed a fairly significant guilt about being absent for so many things. That's no wa to live. It struck me as very sad, as I've heard similar things from other physicians.
• ls612 7y ago
  Meanwhile my dad is an ophthalmologist and at the age of 66 he is talking about how he wants to keep working full time until 70 and then half time after that. Some people are just made for the lifestyle of a physician I guess...
  • yitianjian 7y ago
    Ophthalmology is one of the "lifestyle" medical specializations - it doesn't have the high hours/stress of many of the other medical paths
• hardtke 7y ago
  I have 2 friends in their 40s who are primary care physicians at Kaiser (one in Bay Area, one in Sacramento). Both have dropped down to 60% time (3 days per week), explaining that 60% time is actually 40 hours. In the last few years Kaiser has added both EHR work and e-medicine work without reducing the number of appointment slots. So, it's about 7 hours per day of appointments and then catching up on all of the deferred paperwork and emails.
  • overlyLogical 7y ago
    But they still make 10x more than the average American.
    • wobbly_bush 7y ago
      Not the person you replied to, but how is that relevant to the discussion?
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • conanbatt 7y ago
      Not that much. They have half a million dollar student loans; they pay thousands of dollars a month in malpractice. And doctoes are very overworked. Its not that great of a profession.
      • vkou 7y ago
        Then where is all this money going? Why does my health insurance cost $10,000/person of coverage, on top of deductibles and co-pays?
        • fragmede 7y ago
          Administration, primarily. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/08061... https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care-costs-so-much-more-in-the-us.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/the-real-reason-medical-care...
• christiansakai 7y ago
  But overtime I think doctors will earn more than software engineers. Also doctors are more valued the more senior they are, while software engineers not as much, need to move to management, ageism, etc.
  • overlyLogical 7y ago
    Physicians, not all doctors have the physician monopoly.
  • tomerico 7y ago
    Ironically, since the field has become harder to get into recently - newer doctors are more likely to be better.
  • jac241 7y ago
    Compared to what's on levels.fyi, most specialties will earn less than software engineers. Only cardiologists, gastroenterologists, radiologists, anesthesiologists, and the surgical specialties will have a chance at out earning someone at FAANG.
    • ska 7y ago
      To be fair, levels.fyi is a very poor indicator of salary levels across the industry, whereas salary reporting on physicians isn't. Median salary for physicians is almost certainly significantly higher than for software engineers, but it is less obvious what happens when you factor in length of career, debt load etc. Neither group tend to work nominal (40h) weeks either...
    • christiansakai 7y ago
      Hmm interesting, I didn't know that
      • Fomite 7y ago
        There are some specialties that are actively pretty poor financial decisions. Family Medicine and Infectious Diseases are two of them.
• snarf21 7y ago
  It isn't just the time and money side. I personally feel the solution is that most of the time we don't really need a doctor. How many appointments at a primary care are for colds/flu? We have to switch to largely seeing mid-level providers like PAs or RNs and maybe push even lower. The doctors can be there for the tough cases and to consult and monitor. It is already starting to happen and is one way we can reduce the cost of health care.
  • Ensorceled 7y ago
    Or, you know, switch to one of the systems used at other developed countries that are significantly cheaper. EDIT: > It is already starting to happen and is one way we can reduce the cost of health care. To the downvoters, I'm replying to this part of the comment, not the overall thread.
    • ApolloFortyNine 7y ago
      How does that increase the supply of doctors, which is what's actually being discussed here?
      • Gravityloss 7y ago
        If the medical system become more efficient, more money is freed to 1: increase doctor salaries so there can be more doctors and 2: develop things around doctors so their efficiency improves. (Hire assistants, write software, design better hospitals).
        • joaomacp 7y ago
          Is there data on this?
        • ApolloFortyNine 7y ago
          I would be quite shocked if increasing the number of people who can go see a doctor, for free (or some incredibly reduced rate), somehow resulted in doctors working less. >2: develop things around doctors so their efficiency improves. (Hire assistants, write software, design better hospitals). As for this note, a doctors time is more valuable than basically all 3 of these. If you assume medical corporations desire making more money, then they would already be looking into this step. It's not something that would be improved by increasing the number of customers.
• TrackerFF 7y ago
  But the flip side to tech is also ageism, which is a serious issue. Maybe things will get better down the road, 20-30 years from now; But as it is now, a lot of the good paying companies will be very hesitant in hiring you once you're old enough.
  • copperx 7y ago
    What is old enough? 30? 27? 25?
    • TrackerFF 7y ago
      Completely depends on the company. I'd say 35 - 45 is the period when age starts to become a question. With some young startups on the lower and, and more regular (but relatively young) companies on the upper end. By the time you're 50, it becomes even more apparent. Hell, by then you're not even safe outside the tech-world - I've worked with good people (in their 50's) who were some of the first to get cut when recession / busts hit, and have struggled to find anything comparable ever since.
      • copperx 7y ago
        Here's a question I've always had: does it help if you try looking young? (e.g., be thin, dress stilishly, keep your teeth, skin, and hair in great condition, etc.) These things help in Hollywood. Do they help in Silicon Valley? If so, I wonder what is the ROI of expertly done plastic surgery.
• yodsanklai 7y ago
  My father was a MD and he discouraged me as well of pursuing that path. My friends who are now doctors make much more money that I do, they are more respected, they don't have to deal with some annoying hierarchy, and their job is meaningful. As for working hours, it really depends on the speciality, and the hours they chose to work. I know some dermatologists who work 4 days a week for instance. In the end, I don't regret that I chose a different path as I loved maths and programming and I did some interesting things as well. But nowadays I feel just like a worthless pawn, developing crappy programs, who is starting to suffer from age discrimination...
  • WalterBright 7y ago
    > But nowadays I feel just like a worthless pawn, developing crappy programs, who is starting to suffer from age discrimination... You can join open source. For example, at dlang.org we don't care how old you are, and we won't pull crappy code.
    • ceejayoz 7y ago
      How's the pay?
      • WalterBright 7y ago
        $0.00 It is, after all, open source and we make it all available for free. However, having great contributions to D have landed several contributors very nice jobs. The sponsors of the annual D conference, past and present, did so to look for crackerjack D programmers. I expect it's the same for other open source conferences.
  • tomnipotent 7y ago
    > they don't have to deal with some annoying hierarchy Even MD's still have to deal with some annoying hierarchy or another, unless they own their own practice.
    • lmeyerov 7y ago
• scarmig 7y ago
  On the other hand, a friend of mine is a dermatologist who works three 8-hour days for week and makes 200k+, one yeah after residency. In the end I still prefer doing what I'm doing, but it's not an obviously bad choice.
• brightball 7y ago
  I find this is a common refrain with any profession that regularly has to deal with insurance. I've seen it in medical, home repair and even long standing family auto shops. The more layers get forced in between the people providing a service and the people receiving the service, the worse things seem to get.
• rayhendricks 7y ago
  I’m still not sure why most US medical schools want an undergraduate degree. I see lots of people trying to go pre-med doing research in the lab when we should really just cut out the middleman and have medachool admit straight out of high school or the military [in the USA not sure how other countries work]. This would really reduce the amount of time wasted of people that don’t want to go into research. Right now you can go to school for 4+2(MS degree) and make just as much [total comp] as a GP at FAANG+MSFT and get much, much better working hours. Ideally we would increase the amount of Medicare residencies too. Then everyone could get a residencie and we would also be able to import MD from around the world.