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Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

236 points by basilgohar 7y ago

basilgohar 7y ago
With AMD announcing truly Zen2-based mobile APUs, I felt it was important to gather all the mistakes laptop OEMs have been making and call them out so that at least a voice exists capturing these complaints. Unfortunately, you cannot vote with your wallet if the option you want does not yet exist. Here's hoping that they start to listen.
bb88 7y ago
Thunderbolt-3 is the way of the future. People are building thunderbolt 3 external chassis with a gaming card and extra storage in lieu of having a desktop computer and a laptop computer.
- errantspark 7y ago
  This is how I'm rolling these days (HP Spectre 13" + 1080Ti inside an Akitio Node) and it's not without it's issues, but overall I'm very bullish on this type of thing. I would love for a similar AMD powered laptop, especially if they would let me mess with the fan curves etc. With some hackery my Spectre can be configured to a 20W up-TDP state over it's normal 15W, and when connected to the node I can have it in tent-mode, which improves the cooling a fair bit, as long as the fans stay on full blast (which unfortunately can only be achieved by pushing it to the thermal limit briefly) it stays at a nice ~80C at 25C ambient under all core loads. I manage 240FPS in Overwatch, it's fantastic. This being said I opted for the 1080p screen (wish it was 1200p) and I personally see little reason to get a UHD screen in a laptop this size, it would be nice if it was a 10 bit HDR OLED screen with 400nits, but I can definitely live without the extra resolution, it's pretty meaningless on a screen this small, and most of the time when I'm at home I'm using a 144Hz gaming panel anyway.
- chx 7y ago
  It is not. Intel gave away the TB3 standard to the USB IF who made USB 4 out of it and that is the way of the future. It came out in '19 August, the differences are small but important: where the TB3 bus only carried PCI Express and DisplayPort signals the USB 4 Gen 3 bus also carries USB signals. Previously the USB ports on a TB3 dock / enclosure were implemented using the hotplug USB root hub in the TB3 controller in the TB3 device and it often resulted in a less than satisfactory experience (in other words, it sucked so badly some manufacturers used two TB3 controllers to make it better). TB3 enclosures will be usable by USB 4 hosts.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Or just get a laptop with dual graphics card, having a gaming/workstation class card I don't own a desktop since 2004.
  - Nursie 7y ago
    Such laptops are usually pretty bulky/heavy, or they have a very low-end discrete card. They're a compromise.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      15" Thinkpad, Asus and Dell workstation laptops are pretty alright.
      - Nursie 7y ago
        Great machines, sure, but it's still (to me) a compromise. Right now I have a Macbook pro for portable use and a full-on workstation at home with a 20870Ti in it for playing with ML and CUDA, and for gaming. I love the idea of having one machine and just plugging in to an external GPU caddy when at home for the full capability. Unfortunately MacOS and Nvidia cards aren't friends right now... And the laptops that have got discrete GPUs are both heavier than the ideal (I'd like a portable machine coming in at 1kg or less) and far less capable than the 2080Ti.
  - jotm 7y ago
    Me neither, but I look at eGPU enclosures regularly. I don't even need the GPU power, but a desktop card is miles ahead of a laptop if well cooled and overclocked. Will consume a lot of power though, and it definitely doesn't look like a portable solution.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Overclocking is something I never cared about, the prospect of being forced to buy new hardware was never appealing to me.
- shmerl 7y ago
  USB4 really. TB3 will be replaced with the former. So TB is becoming history.
- hoseja 7y ago
  I know it might be practical and hip if you're constantly on the move, but, eww.
- evadne 7y ago
  In that sense, it is not a very good version of the future. https://egpu.io https://egpu.io is a good resource to get started on this. The 4-lane (sometimes only 2-lane) configuration of Thunderbolt 3 controllers, the overhead of the protocol and Intel’s insistence to reserve DisplayPort and USB bandwidth has made TB3 slower — 22Gbps maximum in a 32Gbps port hosting graphic cards that are usually electrically connected at 128Gbps (PCIe 3.0 x16). I am going back the other way now, after having used an external enclosure for years.
- TheOperator 7y ago
  I agree yet at the same time I avoided it largely because it's a zero-redundancy setup and a desktop/laptop setup is fundamentally more reliable... and it allows the failure of one device to not involved panicked repairs. Plus I do like the ability to segregrate the devices by function, or use one device to repair the other device. Also I'm staggered by the price of these GPU adapters considering the often crap quality of the hardware. Yet I wouldn't be surprised to see myself go this way in the future especially because my phone only becomes a more and more capable "Backup" every year.
sfshaw 7y ago
With all these CES announcements, it's sadly too late to save devices shipping later this quarter. :(
- basilgohar 7y ago
  You're right, but it's a good time to highlight the problem with all the attention on AMD products now. Hopefully someone's listening and can point to this to influence, however slightly, opinions in a constructive manner.
aclatuts 7y ago
The Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 pretty much has all this. David Lee even has a raving review about the Zephyrus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v5IzvVTw7A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v5IzvVTw7A
- onebot 7y ago
  This looks like a killer laptop. Love the exterior pixels. Hope linux will run on it.
  - codegladiator 7y ago
    I have Zephyrus gx531, ubuntu (dual boot with windows) works perfectly (had to hack nothing), so I assume it would most probably work smoothly on Zephyrus G14 as well
    - prox 7y ago
      Just watched the vid, that’s a pretty cool laptop!
  - oliwarner 7y ago
    > Hope linux will run on it Me too. The cover "pixels" and the custom "caching" fingerprint reader are the sorts of features that easily get left behind proprietary drivers (for no good reason). I really wish the EU would use some of their GDPR-focussed zeal and mandate that peripherals must either have open spec sheets or function on open APIs. I'm not suggesting that manufacturers have to write drivers, just ensure that anybody else can.
- jotm 7y ago
  That looks promising!
monocasa 7y ago
Until AMD (well, TSMC) had process node advantage parity it didn't make sense for AMD to compete at the high end portable market. Now they do, so they will.
wyxuan 7y ago
Microsoft recently offered a model of the surface lineup with a ryzen mobile processor. That can't count for nothing right?
- mister_hn 7y ago
  It's not high-end at all. Only 8GB Ram, no dedicated GPU, no PCIe 4.0 drive..
  - nrp 7y ago
    It’s worth noting that neither AMD nor Intel’s latest notebook CPUs support PCIe 4.0. I imagine that won’t be coming until the next generation. Also, you can configure the Surface Laptop 3 being referred to with up to 32GB of RAM: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/configure/Surface-Laptop-3/8VFGGH1R94TM?crosssellid=drawer2&selectedColor=CBB1A0&preview=&previewModes= https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/configure/Surface-Lapt...
    - mister_hn 7y ago
      the Ryzen 4th gen will support PCIe 4.0
      - mastax 7y ago
        Not on laptops, according to the anandtech article.
blitmap 7y ago
I would like the [new] Dell XPS 2-in-1 with the 3840x2400 screen, as an OLED - using an AMD processor. There's been a lot of complaints about the keyboard but i find it strangely fantastic. Yes it takes getting used to, but I can type faster on _reliable_ low-profile keys. Wish the SSD weren't soldered in. Seriously, I've waited forever for 3840x2400. I like the Surface laptops but I need at least >= 2160 in the vertical so i can watch a 1080p movie at native resolution and have it take up a quarter of the screen while I websurf/program. :(
intsunny 7y ago
I'm convinced there is a conspiracy that prevents laptop manufacturers from shipping AMD chips on 13" high end laptops. Almost every (every?) AMD laptop I find is some 14-15" clunker with a garbage screen. I've had to put off buying a new macbook because of the shitty keyboard situation and all laptops (mac/pc) because it appears Intel's newest CPUs are still vulnerable to Meltdown/Spectre. A highend 13" AMD based Linux friendly laptop would be utterly amazeballs.
- snvzz 7y ago
  >A highend 13" AMD based Linux friendly laptop would be utterly amazeballs. Such as the Thinkpad x395 I am using, with Ryzen 3700U.
  - msafadieh 7y ago
    I second this. Been using the X395 with the R3700U and it's been a blast.
- feanaro 7y ago
  I would appreciate a high-end 15" AMD "clunker" with an amazing screen, though. Preferably a ThinkPad. But such a thing is nowhere in sight either, no? I can't work with laptops smaller than 15".
  - lorenzhs 7y ago
    Lenovo has a bunch of AMD ThinkPads (X395, T495, and T495s at a 14" size, E595 at 15") with Ryzen 3000 series CPUs, but the 15" model is from the E series which isn't one of their high-end series. The T495 and T495s seem to be a really nice machines though, even before a Ryzen 4000 refresh: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T495-Review-business-laptop-with-AMD-processor-long-battery-life-and-good-display.434716.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T495-Review-bu... - quote: "Overall, we have to admit that the ThinkPad T495 is the better T490, especially considering its lower price." (The T490 is the Intel version) and https://www.notebookcheck.net/Goodbye-Intel-Thinkpad-T495s-with-AMD-Ryzen-is-the-better-choice-for-many-users.435613.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Goodbye-Intel-Thinkpad-T495s-w..., the title of which is "Goodbye Intel: Thinkpad T495s with AMD Ryzen is the better choice for many users" If these prove popular (and given that they're quite a bit cheaper than the Intel models, they might), a 15" T-series Ryzen Thinkpad probably won't be too far off.
snvzz 7y ago
I have no complaints about my Thinkpad x395, which I use heavily (on Linux, as OpenBSD I can only use if an ethernet cable is at reach due to wireless chip being too new). I would expect a successor on 4000U series to be even better.
jankotek 7y ago
> Ultramobile, slim, and desktop replacements No! I want proper thick modular 17" desktop replacement with 256GB RAM. Platform that would replace old Thinkpads.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  You and me both but unfortunately we are a invisible minority since just like with phones, when it comes to laptops, consumers want something sleek and sexy that looks good in a hip cafe regardless of thermal performance or reparability. Gaming laptops are 80% there though but the ones with good build quality and modularity carry a hefty markup.
- jiggawatts 7y ago
  We're the "nonexistent" market of IT consultants with high incomes that need a high-end laptop. As a third-party to my clients, I cannot rely on the availability of external monitors, keyboards, docking stations, or WiFi. I lug around a heavy Clevo laptop with a 17" 4K screen, 2x RJ-45 ports, quad-core 4 GHz CPU, and 64 GB of memory. These are my minimum requirements, and practically nothing meets it any more! Clevo has largely stopped making 17" 4K screens in favour of 144 Hz gaming screens. Most laptops have tiny keyboards that are uncomfortable to type on for any length of time, and are particularly irritating if you do programming. Most laptops are 14" or smaller, which makes my eyes hurt after an eight hour day. Most laptops focus on battery capacity and low power operation, which doesn't affect me because I work plugged in 99% of the time. Most laptops assume "everything is wireless" and no longer have RJ-45 connectors, let alone two, but all too often guests can't get on the main corporate network on WiFi, but can plug in to the LAN just fine. Most laptop manufacturers are in a race to the bottom. I paid $6,000 for my laptop because it's a tax writeoff, and I'm willing to go as high as $8,000 if I get what I want. Apparently though people like me are "too low margin to bother with" as a market...
  - roel_v 7y ago
    I've thought about making (well, more about 'having' it to be honest) a 'semi-portable' computer for people like us. Basically a briefcase that when folded open would 'swing out' two screens. Maybe you would fold it over so that the rest of the case (where the mobo etc are are in) would work as a stand for the monitors. You wouldn't be able to use it on a couch or plane but it would give you a vastly superior experience when at a desk. Sort of like a portable office. Ideally the whole inside would be 3d printed (maybe some of the display panel mounts would be metal and the rest custom) so that you can make it fit for any briefcase and any hardware you want to put in it.
shmerl 7y ago
> many times an AMD laptop will have ONE USB-C port and it will be used to physically power the device, thus removing it from utility. That's indeed annoying, especially when you need to use it also to drive external monitors. I use USB-C hubs with DP output to work around that. Works well with Lenovo E495 running Linux. Example: https://www.cablematters.com/pc-899-126-usb-c-multiport-adapter-with-4k-60hz-displayport-2x-usb-20-fast-ethernet-and-power-delivery-thunderbolt-3-port-compatible.aspx https://www.cablematters.com/pc-899-126-usb-c-multiport-adap...
Danieru 7y ago
Something no one has mentioned but I think is important to note is how the volume in laptops comes from that medium to low end range. Sure a high end thinkpad is a fantastic laptop, but it is never going to see two hundred units at the local walmart. AMD needs to improve margins and take market share. Low end laptops bring that market share. The margins will follow once Intel cannot rely on moving the majority of chips. Until then Intel has the upper hand for low margin cheap laptops, that is the critical market.
jotm 7y ago
For some reason, I do not expect Dell or HP or anyone big to release a decent, high quality workstation with AMD inside. HP has consumer laptops with Ryzen, and they're the cheapest sheet possible, as expected. I believe Dell does the same. By decent and high quality I mean socketable CPU, GPU and RAM, as well as a good selection of ports (forget TB if it's not possible, give me eSata) and high quality displays (even if 1080p). Could not care less about the weight/size. The only ones I can see doing that are Clevo/Sager/Eurocom, or someone with a good business plan and a well funded Kickstarter...
- basilgohar 7y ago
  Some of the better pieces of hardware have been gaming laptops that feature desktop parts, which I believe are also socketable/replaceable. Not sure how far you can get with them, but that's one area I also hope to see growth in AMD-powered offerings.
oliwarner 7y ago
Good timing! ASUS are showing off a pile of their ROG-branded gaming laptops at CES, which have 7nm, 8 core, 16T Ryzen 4000-line CPUs with RTX2060 (mobile) graphics cards, with fast screens, all in a 14" form factor. Certainly not workstations but still, considerably more powerful More at LTT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGUESEq75ZI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGUESEq75ZI
- libertine 7y ago
  Came here to post this, ASUS went from 8 to 80 on AMD.
- wyoh 7y ago
  > with RTX2060 (mobile) graphics cards wish they had chosen a more Linux friendly card. Going full AMD would have been nice.
t0ddbonzalez 7y ago
Acer Predator Helios 500? https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/predator-series-features/predatorhelios500 https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/predator-series-featur...
- basilgohar 7y ago
  The AMD variant does not have more than a 1080p screen. Also, seems to be no longer available when you go to the "Models" link.
mister_hn 7y ago
what about an amazing 14" with the quality screen of a MacBook, a newer Ryzen 7 4800U/H, 32/64GB RAM and a PCIe 4.0 Drive. And no RAM/SSD is soldered
- kkwak 7y ago
  As much as I hate it, I think it makes business sense for vendors to solder. You can "upgrade" by buying new. I can't imagine the business value of such a laptop - esp now that hardware improvements are slowing down (for the typical use case)
  - Vrondi 7y ago
    Time for geeks everywhere to practice their de-soldering skills.
  - mister_hn 7y ago
    What about dead SSDs or RAM defects? You swap an entire machine just for those components? And what if that 512GB drive doesn't fulfills the requirements anymore?
Illniyar 7y ago
"For as long as I can remember, AMD-powered laptops’ potential have been intentionally shortchanged by OEMs for any number of reasons – perceived lower value, kickbacks from Intel, or sometimes legitimate performance limitations." Seems to be a reason missing from that least - very-low demand. There are clunky low-end intel laptops just as much as there are AMD laptop ones. If enough people show they are willing to buy these than high-end AMD laptops will sprung up a few minutes after.
- basilgohar 7y ago
  This is patently untrue, as I also called out in the article. Voting with your wallet is not possible if the option to buy what you want is not even presented. Moreover, the self-fulfilling cycle of offering sub-par AMD systems and then people not wanting those, and then the OEMs say, "see, we offering (lousy) AMD systems and no one got them". The problem is there are very few DESIRABLE AMD offerings, and moreover, the vast majority of people don't even care what's inside, they are looking at price. This is all before even mentioning that AMD systems, even when performant, have been positioned as value or low-end systems, just to differentiate between them and the Intel offerings. It's also already heavily covered elsewhere in the thread, but Intel has been furiously and notoriously working to undermine AMD with backdoor deals to keep them from a greater marketshare.
pdimitar 7y ago
> Some motherboard makers have gone ahead and included it, but so far, AMD laptops with Thunderbird 3 remain elusive. I assume the author means Thunderbolt 3 here.
- basilgohar 7y ago
  Yes. I made that typo so many times....one slipped through.... Edit: Fixed now!
kstenerud 7y ago
"There needs to be display options well above FHD/1080p." With a 13 inch screen, 1920x1080 is at the pixel density (150) where someone with 20/20 vision won't notice pixellation from a distance of 24 inches. Even with a 15 inch display (density = 128) you're still pretty damn close. Realistically, it would make no difference in usability to go beyond 2560xwhatever in resolution on a laptop, and even that's already getting excessive. Most people with high res displays are already using magnification, which defeats the purpose of such high resolution. I'm using the new Honor Magic Book with Ubuntu Mate installed and am quite pleased with it. Lightweight, good battery life, good screen, good touchpad (SUPER IMPORTANT), USB-C (only one port, unfortunately), dongle-free HDMI, and enough power for development. And the price can't be beat.
- naniwaduni 7y ago
  People use laptops at far closer than 24 inches, though? Not all the time, sure. But it's kind of half the point of a laptop to be able to use them where you can't just clear out two feet to put between your face and the screen. You can get that much space in an economy seat if you don't have a head, maybe.
  - kstenerud 7y ago
    When my laptop is in my lap, the screen is about 60 cm (24 inches) from my eyes. I could move my face 10cm closer, but not for long without being uncomfortable (any closer and my elbows would be behind my back). When it's on a desk, the screen is at a similar distance.
  - drngdds 7y ago
    That seems like a weird situation to optimize for. 24" between your laptop screen and your face is really not a lot of space.
- rememberdeath 7y ago
  I currently have a 4k 15.6 inch laptop, it is very easy to differentiate it from a 1080p one.
stuaxo 7y ago
FFS, I hope they do this. I waited almost a year for a Lenovo that came out with single channel RAM, and got an HP instead. Screen was only FHD, and keeping Linux working on it has been painful.
psds2 7y ago
It simply takes time to develop everything to make this happen. These high end ultrabooks require more time to engineer. One thing is certain, anyone developing this would surely not announce it in advance. Why piss off Intel until you have to?
deaps 7y ago
Reading through the comments proves different strokes for different folks. It took me quite a while to find a laptop I'm completely happy with. I ended up with a (late-2019) Razer Blade Stealth (with gtx1650). I do run the internal screen at 1080p (at 100%) and I couldn't imagine running it at 4k. My older 13" macbook has higher resolution, but you end up having to scale it anyway (In reality, I think it's actually doubled, then scaled back). On a 13", a good quality 1080p screen (to me) is the way to go - anything higher needs scaled.
- IgorPartola 7y ago
  TIL that in 2019 people still have DPI problems with their software.
  - Jestar342 7y ago
    Xorg + multiple monitors = dpi scaling frustration. Wayland implements per-monitor scaling but not much has made the transition yet.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    Only Macs have really made high-DPI work properly, and especially having multiple monitors with very different DPI.
    - jdashg 7y ago
      Mac makes most apps "just work", but it has issues: Any scaling besides the default makes it impossible to do 1:1 device pixel rendering from within an app. Windows has the complete solution for non-integer pixel ratios. For instance, on this machine, my browser's window.devicePixelRatio is `1.7647058823529411`. For my 4k screen, this means apps should be rendering into 3840x2160 pixels, but scale it /as if/ it were a 2176x1224 display. (2160/devicePixelRatio = 1224.0) This allows Windows apps to handle non-integer scaling, whereas on Mac this causes apps to get "fuzzy", since they would e.g. render into a 2176x1224 screenbuffer which is upscaled to 4k by the OS compositor.
  - smolder 7y ago
rsynnott 7y ago
They did: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15213/the-microsoft-surface-laptop-3-showdown-amd-picasso-vs-intel-ice-lake https://www.anandtech.com/show/15213/the-microsoft-surface-l... Spoiler alert; it does _not_ show the AMD chip in a good light. Will be interesting to see if Zen 2 does better.
- basilgohar 7y ago
  It was not the best of comparisons [0]. tl;dr they had different memory and the AMD hardware was older generation (nothing better available, it's true) compared to the Intel. There were other differences too. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21976211 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21976211
  - rsynnott 7y ago
    Sure, as I say it'll be interesting to see if Zen 2 improves things. However, as things stand today, it's not surprising that AMD high end laptops are rare, because they're not very good when they are made. Zen 2 could absolutely change that, of course, if AMD's claims work out. (AFAIK the memory difference was because the AMD chip used didn't support LPDDR4.)
baybal2 7y ago
I will be not so easy. Big OEMs are bound by the supply chain. Small OEMs are dependent on solution providers. Intel pays to solution providers to not to work with AMD in China. That's pretty much on the record, and not a secret to anybody in the industry. And for big OEMs, the supply chain trumps everything. Idling assembly lines are extremely costly for them. One week idle can easily wipe out 1+ month of profits for them. Before AMD is ready to offer the whole BOM kits with inventory in mainland China, and is ready to put money behind the availability guarantee, there will be no mass transition.
- pjc50 7y ago
  > Intel pays to solution providers to not to work with AMD in China Wasn't there literally a US antitrust case about this?
- scumbert 7y ago
  AMD is cooperating closely with Chinese firms and has them to thank in part for its resurgence in the desktop die space. I wouldn't be surprised if these partnerships lead to more AMD PC's from small OEM's in the near future, perhaps only for the Chinese market. Chinese home-grown fabrication is also at parity with AMD Bulldozer, and likely to accelerate with acquisitions of European chipmaker technology. Notably meanwhile China has effectively blocked Qualcomm from making similar moves purportedly on antitrust grounds.
  - baybal2 7y ago
    > cooperating closely with Chinese firms You can say Taiwanese ones. On mainland, AMD is almost unknown in OEM space
gertrunde 7y ago
Quite a few of these complaints are equally applicable to intel-based laptops as well, particularly regarding ports/quantity of ports, and thermals/cooling. A single thunderbolt / type-c port is nice and everything, but since there's only a single one, that means I can only really plug a dock/hub type device in it, or else I'm having to give up something else I need - that goes double if the vendor supplies it with a type-c power adapter as well.
jszymborski 7y ago
I just bought a Thinkpad T495 with a Ryzen Pro 3500U, and but for the display, I think it hits the points made in the blog. Cooling is good, it's far from a clunker and comes in an even slimmer model (T495s), and the battery life so far has been a revelation (knock on wood) compared to the Dell XPS 15 9650 it replaces.
- Vrondi 7y ago
  How do you find the power for intense tasks compares to that XPS 15?
novaleaf 7y ago
not high-end, but I bought a couple of $300 AMD laptops (Acer Aspire 5) and they are great: 15" 1080p screens and faster than my "high-end" laptop from 5 years ago. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RF1XD36 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RF1XD36
johndubchak 7y ago
Excellent challenge to the big OEM's. I doubt many will give it a second thought. What I'd love to see is some of the gifted and talented Makers we've seen in 2019 whip out their dremels and 3D printers and say, "THIS is what I want!" Couldn't you take a chassis with a high-end screen and fabricate a mount that would accommodate securing an AMD board to the existing mounts of a previous Intel board? I know I sound naive, but I haven't looked into it yet. It certainly seems possible from a basic engineering standpoint. EDIT: my horrific grammar
- big_chungus 7y ago
  At least part of the problem is getting said board; laptop motherboards are often specially manufactured for each chassis, and there is no standard form factor like there is for desktops. It might be possible to buy one from a different model, but most boards aren't socketed for AMD chips so that's out, and it's not really feasible to just build your own motherboard.
  - johndubchak 7y ago
    Very true and. I understand your point. I was trying to suggest that you cou take an AMD motherboard and 3D print some sort of adapter that would adapt its form factor to fit the particular form factor of the existing chassis. At least as a PoC.
psim1 7y ago
3:2 display? I know it harks back to CRT specifications, but 4:3 was just right for pretty much all computing purposes other than watching wide movies. Even better? 3:4, a 90-degree rotated tall screen.
Vrondi 7y ago
Yes, please!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
wilhil 7y ago
Intel have a great partner program - I'm a small OEM (as one arm to the company), less than 100 units a month - but, still a nice number... Intel give me advanced warranties, presales support, partner centre, certain privileged information including roadmaps and samples... I couldn't imagine better. AMD - I'm struggling to get them to return a call despite numerous chase messages for over 3 months now. I want to sell AMD due to Ryzen demand but literally can't find anyone... even met an AMD rep at an industry event and he gave me his business card... non stop voicemail and just has never got back to me. Again, I know I'm not huge - but, it's still over 1k units a year and I'm talking to a brick wall. When I started ~15 years ago and literally doing 1-2 a week, Intel were VERY supportive.
- uyuioi 7y ago
  This sums up a lot of older business models. Where a call to a whine and dine salesman is needed. Such a dead and dull way of doing business. In the age of on demand, make a website where OEMs can just sign up and get things done. Outside of a certain monthly sales figure. Then send in the suits.
  - wilhil 7y ago
    Which Intel had and how we got started ~15+ years ago and as our sales figures went up, we got contacted and met with people and gradually the relationship got better and better.
- ksec 7y ago
  Is 100 units a month sustainable as a business? Or is this a hobby? I am surprised because in the age of Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo, how is it even possible to compete?
  - wilhil 7y ago
    We are a MSP and are mainly a Dell house at the moment - however, we have found a niche in media and are constantly building mid range servers and high end workstations. On the high end, we can assemble a Xeon or i7/i9 machine, 64GB memory + huge NVME/SSD for roughly 50% of a branded machine... We aren't in the celeron/i3 low end game...

236 points by basilgohar 7y ago

With AMD announcing truly Zen2-based mobile APUs, I felt it was important to gather all the mistakes laptop OEMs have been making and call them out so that at least a voice exists capturing these complaints. Unfortunately, you cannot vote with your wallet if the option you want does not yet exist. Here's hoping that they start to listen.

bb88 7y ago

Thunderbolt-3 is the way of the future. People are building thunderbolt 3 external chassis with a gaming card and extra storage in lieu of having a desktop computer and a laptop computer.

errantspark 7y ago
This is how I'm rolling these days (HP Spectre 13" + 1080Ti inside an Akitio Node) and it's not without it's issues, but overall I'm very bullish on this type of thing. I would love for a similar AMD powered laptop, especially if they would let me mess with the fan curves etc. With some hackery my Spectre can be configured to a 20W up-TDP state over it's normal 15W, and when connected to the node I can have it in tent-mode, which improves the cooling a fair bit, as long as the fans stay on full blast (which unfortunately can only be achieved by pushing it to the thermal limit briefly) it stays at a nice ~80C at 25C ambient under all core loads. I manage 240FPS in Overwatch, it's fantastic. This being said I opted for the 1080p screen (wish it was 1200p) and I personally see little reason to get a UHD screen in a laptop this size, it would be nice if it was a 10 bit HDR OLED screen with 400nits, but I can definitely live without the extra resolution, it's pretty meaningless on a screen this small, and most of the time when I'm at home I'm using a 144Hz gaming panel anyway.
chx 7y ago
It is not. Intel gave away the TB3 standard to the USB IF who made USB 4 out of it and that is the way of the future. It came out in '19 August, the differences are small but important: where the TB3 bus only carried PCI Express and DisplayPort signals the USB 4 Gen 3 bus also carries USB signals. Previously the USB ports on a TB3 dock / enclosure were implemented using the hotplug USB root hub in the TB3 controller in the TB3 device and it often resulted in a less than satisfactory experience (in other words, it sucked so badly some manufacturers used two TB3 controllers to make it better). TB3 enclosures will be usable by USB 4 hosts.
pjmlp 7y ago
Or just get a laptop with dual graphics card, having a gaming/workstation class card I don't own a desktop since 2004.
- Nursie 7y ago
  Such laptops are usually pretty bulky/heavy, or they have a very low-end discrete card. They're a compromise.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    15" Thinkpad, Asus and Dell workstation laptops are pretty alright.
    - Nursie 7y ago
      Great machines, sure, but it's still (to me) a compromise. Right now I have a Macbook pro for portable use and a full-on workstation at home with a 20870Ti in it for playing with ML and CUDA, and for gaming. I love the idea of having one machine and just plugging in to an external GPU caddy when at home for the full capability. Unfortunately MacOS and Nvidia cards aren't friends right now... And the laptops that have got discrete GPUs are both heavier than the ideal (I'd like a portable machine coming in at 1kg or less) and far less capable than the 2080Ti.
- jotm 7y ago
  Me neither, but I look at eGPU enclosures regularly. I don't even need the GPU power, but a desktop card is miles ahead of a laptop if well cooled and overclocked. Will consume a lot of power though, and it definitely doesn't look like a portable solution.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Overclocking is something I never cared about, the prospect of being forced to buy new hardware was never appealing to me.
shmerl 7y ago
USB4 really. TB3 will be replaced with the former. So TB is becoming history.
hoseja 7y ago
I know it might be practical and hip if you're constantly on the move, but, eww.
evadne 7y ago
In that sense, it is not a very good version of the future. https://egpu.io https://egpu.io is a good resource to get started on this. The 4-lane (sometimes only 2-lane) configuration of Thunderbolt 3 controllers, the overhead of the protocol and Intel’s insistence to reserve DisplayPort and USB bandwidth has made TB3 slower — 22Gbps maximum in a 32Gbps port hosting graphic cards that are usually electrically connected at 128Gbps (PCIe 3.0 x16). I am going back the other way now, after having used an external enclosure for years.
TheOperator 7y ago
I agree yet at the same time I avoided it largely because it's a zero-redundancy setup and a desktop/laptop setup is fundamentally more reliable... and it allows the failure of one device to not involved panicked repairs. Plus I do like the ability to segregrate the devices by function, or use one device to repair the other device. Also I'm staggered by the price of these GPU adapters considering the often crap quality of the hardware. Yet I wouldn't be surprised to see myself go this way in the future especially because my phone only becomes a more and more capable "Backup" every year.

sfshaw 7y ago

With all these CES announcements, it's sadly too late to save devices shipping later this quarter. :(

basilgohar 7y ago
You're right, but it's a good time to highlight the problem with all the attention on AMD products now. Hopefully someone's listening and can point to this to influence, however slightly, opinions in a constructive manner.

aclatuts 7y ago

The Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 pretty much has all this. David Lee even has a raving review about the Zephyrus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v5IzvVTw7A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v5IzvVTw7A

onebot 7y ago
This looks like a killer laptop. Love the exterior pixels. Hope linux will run on it.
- codegladiator 7y ago
  I have Zephyrus gx531, ubuntu (dual boot with windows) works perfectly (had to hack nothing), so I assume it would most probably work smoothly on Zephyrus G14 as well
  - prox 7y ago
    Just watched the vid, that’s a pretty cool laptop!
- oliwarner 7y ago
  > Hope linux will run on it Me too. The cover "pixels" and the custom "caching" fingerprint reader are the sorts of features that easily get left behind proprietary drivers (for no good reason). I really wish the EU would use some of their GDPR-focussed zeal and mandate that peripherals must either have open spec sheets or function on open APIs. I'm not suggesting that manufacturers have to write drivers, just ensure that anybody else can.
jotm 7y ago
That looks promising!

monocasa 7y ago

Until AMD (well, TSMC) had process node advantage parity it didn't make sense for AMD to compete at the high end portable market. Now they do, so they will.

wyxuan 7y ago

Microsoft recently offered a model of the surface lineup with a ryzen mobile processor. That can't count for nothing right?

mister_hn 7y ago
It's not high-end at all. Only 8GB Ram, no dedicated GPU, no PCIe 4.0 drive..
- nrp 7y ago
  It’s worth noting that neither AMD nor Intel’s latest notebook CPUs support PCIe 4.0. I imagine that won’t be coming until the next generation. Also, you can configure the Surface Laptop 3 being referred to with up to 32GB of RAM: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/configure/Surface-Laptop-3/8VFGGH1R94TM?crosssellid=drawer2&selectedColor=CBB1A0&preview=&previewModes= https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/configure/Surface-Lapt...
  - mister_hn 7y ago
    the Ryzen 4th gen will support PCIe 4.0
    - mastax 7y ago
      Not on laptops, according to the anandtech article.

blitmap 7y ago

I would like the [new] Dell XPS 2-in-1 with the 3840x2400 screen, as an OLED - using an AMD processor. There's been a lot of complaints about the keyboard but i find it strangely fantastic. Yes it takes getting used to, but I can type faster on _reliable_ low-profile keys. Wish the SSD weren't soldered in. Seriously, I've waited forever for 3840x2400. I like the Surface laptops but I need at least >= 2160 in the vertical so i can watch a 1080p movie at native resolution and have it take up a quarter of the screen while I websurf/program. :(

intsunny 7y ago

I'm convinced there is a conspiracy that prevents laptop manufacturers from shipping AMD chips on 13" high end laptops. Almost every (every?) AMD laptop I find is some 14-15" clunker with a garbage screen. I've had to put off buying a new macbook because of the shitty keyboard situation and all laptops (mac/pc) because it appears Intel's newest CPUs are still vulnerable to Meltdown/Spectre. A highend 13" AMD based Linux friendly laptop would be utterly amazeballs.

snvzz 7y ago
>A highend 13" AMD based Linux friendly laptop would be utterly amazeballs. Such as the Thinkpad x395 I am using, with Ryzen 3700U.
- msafadieh 7y ago
  I second this. Been using the X395 with the R3700U and it's been a blast.
feanaro 7y ago
I would appreciate a high-end 15" AMD "clunker" with an amazing screen, though. Preferably a ThinkPad. But such a thing is nowhere in sight either, no? I can't work with laptops smaller than 15".
- lorenzhs 7y ago
  Lenovo has a bunch of AMD ThinkPads (X395, T495, and T495s at a 14" size, E595 at 15") with Ryzen 3000 series CPUs, but the 15" model is from the E series which isn't one of their high-end series. The T495 and T495s seem to be a really nice machines though, even before a Ryzen 4000 refresh: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T495-Review-business-laptop-with-AMD-processor-long-battery-life-and-good-display.434716.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-T495-Review-bu... - quote: "Overall, we have to admit that the ThinkPad T495 is the better T490, especially considering its lower price." (The T490 is the Intel version) and https://www.notebookcheck.net/Goodbye-Intel-Thinkpad-T495s-with-AMD-Ryzen-is-the-better-choice-for-many-users.435613.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Goodbye-Intel-Thinkpad-T495s-w..., the title of which is "Goodbye Intel: Thinkpad T495s with AMD Ryzen is the better choice for many users" If these prove popular (and given that they're quite a bit cheaper than the Intel models, they might), a 15" T-series Ryzen Thinkpad probably won't be too far off.

snvzz 7y ago

I have no complaints about my Thinkpad x395, which I use heavily (on Linux, as OpenBSD I can only use if an ethernet cable is at reach due to wireless chip being too new). I would expect a successor on 4000U series to be even better.

jankotek 7y ago

> Ultramobile, slim, and desktop replacements No! I want proper thick modular 17" desktop replacement with 256GB RAM. Platform that would replace old Thinkpads.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago
You and me both but unfortunately we are a invisible minority since just like with phones, when it comes to laptops, consumers want something sleek and sexy that looks good in a hip cafe regardless of thermal performance or reparability. Gaming laptops are 80% there though but the ones with good build quality and modularity carry a hefty markup.
jiggawatts 7y ago
We're the "nonexistent" market of IT consultants with high incomes that need a high-end laptop. As a third-party to my clients, I cannot rely on the availability of external monitors, keyboards, docking stations, or WiFi. I lug around a heavy Clevo laptop with a 17" 4K screen, 2x RJ-45 ports, quad-core 4 GHz CPU, and 64 GB of memory. These are my minimum requirements, and practically nothing meets it any more! Clevo has largely stopped making 17" 4K screens in favour of 144 Hz gaming screens. Most laptops have tiny keyboards that are uncomfortable to type on for any length of time, and are particularly irritating if you do programming. Most laptops are 14" or smaller, which makes my eyes hurt after an eight hour day. Most laptops focus on battery capacity and low power operation, which doesn't affect me because I work plugged in 99% of the time. Most laptops assume "everything is wireless" and no longer have RJ-45 connectors, let alone two, but all too often guests can't get on the main corporate network on WiFi, but can plug in to the LAN just fine. Most laptop manufacturers are in a race to the bottom. I paid $6,000 for my laptop because it's a tax writeoff, and I'm willing to go as high as $8,000 if I get what I want. Apparently though people like me are "too low margin to bother with" as a market...
- roel_v 7y ago
  I've thought about making (well, more about 'having' it to be honest) a 'semi-portable' computer for people like us. Basically a briefcase that when folded open would 'swing out' two screens. Maybe you would fold it over so that the rest of the case (where the mobo etc are are in) would work as a stand for the monitors. You wouldn't be able to use it on a couch or plane but it would give you a vastly superior experience when at a desk. Sort of like a portable office. Ideally the whole inside would be 3d printed (maybe some of the display panel mounts would be metal and the rest custom) so that you can make it fit for any briefcase and any hardware you want to put in it.

shmerl 7y ago

> many times an AMD laptop will have ONE USB-C port and it will be used to physically power the device, thus removing it from utility. That's indeed annoying, especially when you need to use it also to drive external monitors. I use USB-C hubs with DP output to work around that. Works well with Lenovo E495 running Linux. Example: https://www.cablematters.com/pc-899-126-usb-c-multiport-adapter-with-4k-60hz-displayport-2x-usb-20-fast-ethernet-and-power-delivery-thunderbolt-3-port-compatible.aspx https://www.cablematters.com/pc-899-126-usb-c-multiport-adap...

Danieru 7y ago

Something no one has mentioned but I think is important to note is how the volume in laptops comes from that medium to low end range. Sure a high end thinkpad is a fantastic laptop, but it is never going to see two hundred units at the local walmart. AMD needs to improve margins and take market share. Low end laptops bring that market share. The margins will follow once Intel cannot rely on moving the majority of chips. Until then Intel has the upper hand for low margin cheap laptops, that is the critical market.

jotm 7y ago

For some reason, I do not expect Dell or HP or anyone big to release a decent, high quality workstation with AMD inside. HP has consumer laptops with Ryzen, and they're the cheapest sheet possible, as expected. I believe Dell does the same. By decent and high quality I mean socketable CPU, GPU and RAM, as well as a good selection of ports (forget TB if it's not possible, give me eSata) and high quality displays (even if 1080p). Could not care less about the weight/size. The only ones I can see doing that are Clevo/Sager/Eurocom, or someone with a good business plan and a well funded Kickstarter...

basilgohar 7y ago
Some of the better pieces of hardware have been gaming laptops that feature desktop parts, which I believe are also socketable/replaceable. Not sure how far you can get with them, but that's one area I also hope to see growth in AMD-powered offerings.

oliwarner 7y ago

Good timing! ASUS are showing off a pile of their ROG-branded gaming laptops at CES, which have 7nm, 8 core, 16T Ryzen 4000-line CPUs with RTX2060 (mobile) graphics cards, with fast screens, all in a 14" form factor. Certainly not workstations but still, considerably more powerful More at LTT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGUESEq75ZI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGUESEq75ZI

libertine 7y ago
Came here to post this, ASUS went from 8 to 80 on AMD.
wyoh 7y ago
> with RTX2060 (mobile) graphics cards wish they had chosen a more Linux friendly card. Going full AMD would have been nice.

t0ddbonzalez 7y ago

Acer Predator Helios 500? https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/predator-series-features/predatorhelios500 https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/predator-series-featur...

basilgohar 7y ago
The AMD variant does not have more than a 1080p screen. Also, seems to be no longer available when you go to the "Models" link.

mister_hn 7y ago

what about an amazing 14" with the quality screen of a MacBook, a newer Ryzen 7 4800U/H, 32/64GB RAM and a PCIe 4.0 Drive. And no RAM/SSD is soldered

kkwak 7y ago
As much as I hate it, I think it makes business sense for vendors to solder. You can "upgrade" by buying new. I can't imagine the business value of such a laptop - esp now that hardware improvements are slowing down (for the typical use case)
- Vrondi 7y ago
  Time for geeks everywhere to practice their de-soldering skills.
- mister_hn 7y ago
  What about dead SSDs or RAM defects? You swap an entire machine just for those components? And what if that 512GB drive doesn't fulfills the requirements anymore?

Illniyar 7y ago

"For as long as I can remember, AMD-powered laptops’ potential have been intentionally shortchanged by OEMs for any number of reasons – perceived lower value, kickbacks from Intel, or sometimes legitimate performance limitations." Seems to be a reason missing from that least - very-low demand. There are clunky low-end intel laptops just as much as there are AMD laptop ones. If enough people show they are willing to buy these than high-end AMD laptops will sprung up a few minutes after.

basilgohar 7y ago
This is patently untrue, as I also called out in the article. Voting with your wallet is not possible if the option to buy what you want is not even presented. Moreover, the self-fulfilling cycle of offering sub-par AMD systems and then people not wanting those, and then the OEMs say, "see, we offering (lousy) AMD systems and no one got them". The problem is there are very few DESIRABLE AMD offerings, and moreover, the vast majority of people don't even care what's inside, they are looking at price. This is all before even mentioning that AMD systems, even when performant, have been positioned as value or low-end systems, just to differentiate between them and the Intel offerings. It's also already heavily covered elsewhere in the thread, but Intel has been furiously and notoriously working to undermine AMD with backdoor deals to keep them from a greater marketshare.

pdimitar 7y ago

> Some motherboard makers have gone ahead and included it, but so far, AMD laptops with Thunderbird 3 remain elusive. I assume the author means Thunderbolt 3 here.

basilgohar 7y ago
Yes. I made that typo so many times....one slipped through.... Edit: Fixed now!

kstenerud 7y ago

"There needs to be display options well above FHD/1080p." With a 13 inch screen, 1920x1080 is at the pixel density (150) where someone with 20/20 vision won't notice pixellation from a distance of 24 inches. Even with a 15 inch display (density = 128) you're still pretty damn close. Realistically, it would make no difference in usability to go beyond 2560xwhatever in resolution on a laptop, and even that's already getting excessive. Most people with high res displays are already using magnification, which defeats the purpose of such high resolution. I'm using the new Honor Magic Book with Ubuntu Mate installed and am quite pleased with it. Lightweight, good battery life, good screen, good touchpad (SUPER IMPORTANT), USB-C (only one port, unfortunately), dongle-free HDMI, and enough power for development. And the price can't be beat.

naniwaduni 7y ago
People use laptops at far closer than 24 inches, though? Not all the time, sure. But it's kind of half the point of a laptop to be able to use them where you can't just clear out two feet to put between your face and the screen. You can get that much space in an economy seat if you don't have a head, maybe.
- kstenerud 7y ago
  When my laptop is in my lap, the screen is about 60 cm (24 inches) from my eyes. I could move my face 10cm closer, but not for long without being uncomfortable (any closer and my elbows would be behind my back). When it's on a desk, the screen is at a similar distance.
- drngdds 7y ago
  That seems like a weird situation to optimize for. 24" between your laptop screen and your face is really not a lot of space.
rememberdeath 7y ago
I currently have a 4k 15.6 inch laptop, it is very easy to differentiate it from a 1080p one.

stuaxo 7y ago

FFS, I hope they do this. I waited almost a year for a Lenovo that came out with single channel RAM, and got an HP instead. Screen was only FHD, and keeping Linux working on it has been painful.

psds2 7y ago

It simply takes time to develop everything to make this happen. These high end ultrabooks require more time to engineer. One thing is certain, anyone developing this would surely not announce it in advance. Why piss off Intel until you have to?

deaps 7y ago

Reading through the comments proves different strokes for different folks. It took me quite a while to find a laptop I'm completely happy with. I ended up with a (late-2019) Razer Blade Stealth (with gtx1650). I do run the internal screen at 1080p (at 100%) and I couldn't imagine running it at 4k. My older 13" macbook has higher resolution, but you end up having to scale it anyway (In reality, I think it's actually doubled, then scaled back). On a 13", a good quality 1080p screen (to me) is the way to go - anything higher needs scaled.

IgorPartola 7y ago
TIL that in 2019 people still have DPI problems with their software.
- Jestar342 7y ago
  Xorg + multiple monitors = dpi scaling frustration. Wayland implements per-monitor scaling but not much has made the transition yet.
- pjc50 7y ago
  Only Macs have really made high-DPI work properly, and especially having multiple monitors with very different DPI.
  - jdashg 7y ago
    Mac makes most apps "just work", but it has issues: Any scaling besides the default makes it impossible to do 1:1 device pixel rendering from within an app. Windows has the complete solution for non-integer pixel ratios. For instance, on this machine, my browser's window.devicePixelRatio is `1.7647058823529411`. For my 4k screen, this means apps should be rendering into 3840x2160 pixels, but scale it /as if/ it were a 2176x1224 display. (2160/devicePixelRatio = 1224.0) This allows Windows apps to handle non-integer scaling, whereas on Mac this causes apps to get "fuzzy", since they would e.g. render into a 2176x1224 screenbuffer which is upscaled to 4k by the OS compositor.
- smolder 7y ago

rsynnott 7y ago

They did: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15213/the-microsoft-surface-laptop-3-showdown-amd-picasso-vs-intel-ice-lake https://www.anandtech.com/show/15213/the-microsoft-surface-l... Spoiler alert; it does _not_ show the AMD chip in a good light. Will be interesting to see if Zen 2 does better.

basilgohar 7y ago
It was not the best of comparisons [0]. tl;dr they had different memory and the AMD hardware was older generation (nothing better available, it's true) compared to the Intel. There were other differences too. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21976211 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21976211
- rsynnott 7y ago
  Sure, as I say it'll be interesting to see if Zen 2 improves things. However, as things stand today, it's not surprising that AMD high end laptops are rare, because they're not very good when they are made. Zen 2 could absolutely change that, of course, if AMD's claims work out. (AFAIK the memory difference was because the AMD chip used didn't support LPDDR4.)

baybal2 7y ago

I will be not so easy. Big OEMs are bound by the supply chain. Small OEMs are dependent on solution providers. Intel pays to solution providers to not to work with AMD in China. That's pretty much on the record, and not a secret to anybody in the industry. And for big OEMs, the supply chain trumps everything. Idling assembly lines are extremely costly for them. One week idle can easily wipe out 1+ month of profits for them. Before AMD is ready to offer the whole BOM kits with inventory in mainland China, and is ready to put money behind the availability guarantee, there will be no mass transition.

pjc50 7y ago
> Intel pays to solution providers to not to work with AMD in China Wasn't there literally a US antitrust case about this?
scumbert 7y ago
AMD is cooperating closely with Chinese firms and has them to thank in part for its resurgence in the desktop die space. I wouldn't be surprised if these partnerships lead to more AMD PC's from small OEM's in the near future, perhaps only for the Chinese market. Chinese home-grown fabrication is also at parity with AMD Bulldozer, and likely to accelerate with acquisitions of European chipmaker technology. Notably meanwhile China has effectively blocked Qualcomm from making similar moves purportedly on antitrust grounds.
- baybal2 7y ago
  > cooperating closely with Chinese firms You can say Taiwanese ones. On mainland, AMD is almost unknown in OEM space

gertrunde 7y ago

Quite a few of these complaints are equally applicable to intel-based laptops as well, particularly regarding ports/quantity of ports, and thermals/cooling. A single thunderbolt / type-c port is nice and everything, but since there's only a single one, that means I can only really plug a dock/hub type device in it, or else I'm having to give up something else I need - that goes double if the vendor supplies it with a type-c power adapter as well.

jszymborski 7y ago

I just bought a Thinkpad T495 with a Ryzen Pro 3500U, and but for the display, I think it hits the points made in the blog. Cooling is good, it's far from a clunker and comes in an even slimmer model (T495s), and the battery life so far has been a revelation (knock on wood) compared to the Dell XPS 15 9650 it replaces.

Vrondi 7y ago
How do you find the power for intense tasks compares to that XPS 15?

novaleaf 7y ago

not high-end, but I bought a couple of $300 AMD laptops (Acer Aspire 5) and they are great: 15" 1080p screens and faster than my "high-end" laptop from 5 years ago. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RF1XD36 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RF1XD36

johndubchak 7y ago

Excellent challenge to the big OEM's. I doubt many will give it a second thought. What I'd love to see is some of the gifted and talented Makers we've seen in 2019 whip out their dremels and 3D printers and say, "THIS is what I want!" Couldn't you take a chassis with a high-end screen and fabricate a mount that would accommodate securing an AMD board to the existing mounts of a previous Intel board? I know I sound naive, but I haven't looked into it yet. It certainly seems possible from a basic engineering standpoint. EDIT: my horrific grammar

big_chungus 7y ago
At least part of the problem is getting said board; laptop motherboards are often specially manufactured for each chassis, and there is no standard form factor like there is for desktops. It might be possible to buy one from a different model, but most boards aren't socketed for AMD chips so that's out, and it's not really feasible to just build your own motherboard.
- johndubchak 7y ago
  Very true and. I understand your point. I was trying to suggest that you cou take an AMD motherboard and 3D print some sort of adapter that would adapt its form factor to fit the particular form factor of the existing chassis. At least as a PoC.

psim1 7y ago

3:2 display? I know it harks back to CRT specifications, but 4:3 was just right for pretty much all computing purposes other than watching wide movies. Even better? 3:4, a 90-degree rotated tall screen.

Vrondi 7y ago

Yes, please!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

wilhil 7y ago

Intel have a great partner program - I'm a small OEM (as one arm to the company), less than 100 units a month - but, still a nice number... Intel give me advanced warranties, presales support, partner centre, certain privileged information including roadmaps and samples... I couldn't imagine better. AMD - I'm struggling to get them to return a call despite numerous chase messages for over 3 months now. I want to sell AMD due to Ryzen demand but literally can't find anyone... even met an AMD rep at an industry event and he gave me his business card... non stop voicemail and just has never got back to me. Again, I know I'm not huge - but, it's still over 1k units a year and I'm talking to a brick wall. When I started ~15 years ago and literally doing 1-2 a week, Intel were VERY supportive.

uyuioi 7y ago
This sums up a lot of older business models. Where a call to a whine and dine salesman is needed. Such a dead and dull way of doing business. In the age of on demand, make a website where OEMs can just sign up and get things done. Outside of a certain monthly sales figure. Then send in the suits.
- wilhil 7y ago
  Which Intel had and how we got started ~15+ years ago and as our sales figures went up, we got contacted and met with people and gradually the relationship got better and better.
ksec 7y ago
Is 100 units a month sustainable as a business? Or is this a hobby? I am surprised because in the age of Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo, how is it even possible to compete?
- wilhil 7y ago
  We are a MSP and are mainly a Dell house at the moment - however, we have found a niche in media and are constantly building mid range servers and high end workstations. On the high end, we can assemble a Xeon or i7/i9 machine, 64GB memory + huge NVME/SSD for roughly 50% of a branded machine... We aren't in the celeron/i3 low end game...