17 ms·

Effects of Intermittent Fasting on Health, Aging, and Disease [pdf]

297 points by SQL2219 7y ago

5cott0 7y ago
intermittent fasting is an eating disorder
joelrunyon 7y ago
If people are interested in learning more about fasting, I put together a few visual guides on it here - http://impossiblehq.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting http://impossiblehq.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting I also highly recommend the zero fasting app for tracking. Super simple and really clean app that makes tracking fasts simple. Start small and see how it goes. I find the 16/8 routine tends to work best for me personally with 36 hour fasts sprinkled in every couple weeks.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  How do you maintain energy levels through a 36 hour fast? Edit: Thanks all! This’ll help me progress from 16/8 to consistent longer fasts.
  - i_am_proteus 7y ago
    Build up to it from shorter fasts. Pay close attention to caloric intake, it's easy to undereat when fasting. Eventually you will be unable to not maintain energy levels though the fast.
  - joelrunyon 7y ago
    I am relatively adapted to it at this point, so it doesn't bother me as much. I time it so I start the fast towards the evening and then it ends mid-morning - so you're only really pushing through one full day without food. I'll have coffee/tea for caffeine and electrolytes seem to help depending on your situation. Start with several smaller fasts before going full 36 and if you need to eat before the full 36 hours are up, don't kill yourself. The biggest realization is just coming to terms with how much what a lot of people think of as "hunger" is often just boredom or cravings and not actual hunger. That was eye-opening.
    - sapanakothari 7y ago
      Do you break fast eating specific things or just go about eating your usual meal?
      - joelrunyon 7y ago
        I typically don't eat breakfast. I eat a relatively low-carb diet throughout the day w/ more carbohydrates around my workout (in the evening)
  - chiefalchemist 7y ago
    While I haven't done 36, 24 is relatively easy. The idea that your body needs constant food intake is a modern myth. It's mostly your mind that's been programmed to want to eat that often. Also, once you eat the insulin spike triggers the next wave of craving, and so on. Fasting is not the same because you're well, um, fasting.
    - mark_l_watson 7y ago
      Also, if you avoid sugar for a week before fasting that helps a lot, or rather, I should say that it helps me. Eating sugar messes up my ability to know if I am really hungry or if it is just too many Candida bacteria in my system messing with my brain chemistry. Anyway, if you like, try avoiding sugar leading up to avoiding fasting.
      - chiefalchemist 7y ago
        I would say that avoiding sugar as much as possible in general is a positive. Avoiding unnecessary insulin spikes is a positive.
    - antisocial 7y ago
      I have been on IF for almost three years and started recently on 36 hours once every three weeks. If you can do 24, 36 is not too much of a problem. My last 12 hours of the 36 hours is sleeping, so I don't think about food or feel hungry when I am sleeping. Also, I ended up doing it for 38-40 even though my intention was to do it for 36 hours because of my sleep.
    - lloeki 7y ago
      > The idea that your body needs constant food intake is a modern myth. Modern food intake also trains the digestive tract (most notably stomach) to never be empty, and we end up confusing signals of hunger with an empty stomach. I heard that Japanese (or was it China? Korea?) people have this rule of thumb of eating only up to ~80% of stomach volume; no idea if it’s factually true but having this rule of thumb of not filling myself to the brim as we seem to culturally do currently seems to be extremely positive I’m my experience. Letting go the social baggage of “bon vivant” and “oh my god I’m so full this was soooo good” seems to be just as hard as not smoking when many around are smoking. “one should eat to live, and not live to eat” says Molière, but even being acutely aware of that, I struggle to fight the deeply ingrained social pressure, as even most foodies/fasters I know seem to subscribe to this “all you can eat” way of life (although with healthy food) Goddamit when I was feeling great, all sporty and fit (athletic even, dare I say) everyone was saying I was too thin, and now that I feel like shit having some 10+kg excessive weight to shed, everyone around says there’s no need to, and worry a lot when I don’t take a second or third serving.
  - hhjinks 7y ago
    I have done a couple 36 hour fasts. What broke me was hunger, not low energy. Didn't feel any less energized than usual, really. But resisting the urge to eat after you've been hungry all day and someone puts a meal in front of you is hard.
    - beagle3 7y ago
      in many people’s experience (mine included) there’s phase change sometime in the 48-72 hour mark in which hunger/appetite essentially disappears (some describe it is gone, some as easily ignored background noise) Personally, I’ve gone more than 14 days several times, I usually start when not feeling very well (and lacking appetite) which makes even the first couple of days trivial. If you do want to go farther than 36 (at your own risk of course - I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice) make sure you are well vitamined, well hydrated, and well electrolyted (e.g. with snake juice) - very often, need for some essential vitamin/mineral masquerades as hunger or appetite.
      - CuriousSkeptic 7y ago
        To underline this. People have died starting eating after a long fast. While the risks are probably manageable, and other people have successfully been fasting a full year, do educate yourself on Refeeding syndrome before doing any extended fasts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome
      - commandlinefan 7y ago
        > more than 14 days several times Isn't that how anorexics end up unable to eat at all, though? They go so long without eating that the "good" bacteria that permits digestion disappear so they're no longer able to process food.
        beagle3 7y ago
        I am not familiar with the process anorexics go through, but it is likely very different - thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, do fasting of 2-7 days on a regular basis with no ill effect (on the contrary - often with good effect). Good bacteria can likely be reinstated by the body itself (the appendix is a cache for them), from food, or if all else fails - by FMT. I’m not an expert on this, and may be wrong, but from a lot of reading - any anorexia symptoms and processes seem to be entirely absent from mindful fasting.
- everdev 7y ago
  Do you find that you're able to do cognitively demanding tasks while fasting? Even small fasts seem to sap my concentration and critical thinking. Once I eat again I feel like I think better.
  - smilliken 7y ago
    You could switch your metabolism to ketosis, then your energy level won't depend on blood sugar and will be more consistent through the day. I do my most cognitively demanding work without food.
  - losteric 7y ago
    Mental clarity is a challenge when fasting on an otherwise stereotypical American diet... those blood glucose swings are no joke. However I have no problems on keto, or even just a consistently low-GI low-carb diet. If anything, fasting seems to improve my discipline and "depth-first" thinking.
    - VeninVidiaVicii 7y ago
      Interesting. I did an "animal-product only" diet for about six months, and I began to feel sorry for everyone else and their inability to think deeply. I was in an almost constant state of enlightenment. Then my buds convinced me to go on a 2000 mile road trip, and after the first stop at Wendy's I lost it, and haven't had the will to go back. It's been like 4 years now.
      - shrimpx 7y ago
        Can you elaborate on what you ate? Curious.
      - ChrisCinelli 7y ago
        animal-product only ? No veggies?
        coldtea 7y ago
- notadoc 7y ago
  > I find the 16/8 routine tends to work best for me personally That timeline as "fasting" is funny to me up because that is basically how people used to eat in 20th century USA, pre-obesity. You'd eat three meals a day, all reasonably sized (or even small by todays standards), and at specific times. No you can't have a snack, that would ruin your appetite! But now people are addicted to food and abuse it rampantly as is evidenced by the majorities waistlines and health care expenditure, it's terrible for us all but it's not only the most culturally acceptable form of substance abuse, it's widely encouraged and even celebrated. Strange times.
- collyw 7y ago
  I want to know the relative benefits of the different protocols (I asked on the fasting subreddit, but didn't get much response). I am not overweight, but I see that IF can increase growth hormone and testosterone, and increase insulin sensitivity, which are of interest to me. I would like to know if I am better doing a couple of longer fasts peer week, or if skipping breakfast would be enough. (Longer fasts feel like they have more benefit, but are more effort, especially when I am trying NOT to loose weight). Does anyone know of anywhere good to compare the benefits of different IF protocols?
ve55 7y ago
I've been engaging in intermittent fasting to various extents for almost a decade now and am a huge fan of it. It takes a bit to get used to and should be adapted to over time, but I very much love the feeling of fasting for short periods and the freedom I'm granted to be able to easily skip meals, most commonly breakfast and lunch. I often only eat one meal a day, which saves me time, energy, and money, but I also enjoy the meal more, as I can include large portions of a lot of food groups in my single meal. That this has many potential health benefits makes this style of eating appear even more appealing. Caloric restriction, although not quite the same as intermittent fasting, does appear to be one of the more promising methods we already have to help promote human longevity.
gtt 7y ago
Too bad, there is no abstract in the paper.
- xtracto 7y ago
  >Animal models show that intermittent fasting improves health throughout the life span, whereas clinical studies have mainly involved relatively short- term interventions, over a period of months. > It remains to be determined whether people can maintain intermittent fasting for years and potentially accrue the benefits seen in animal models. Furthermore, clinical studies have focused mainly on overweight young and middle-age adults, and we cannot generalize to other age groups the benefits and safety of intermittent fasting that have been observed in these studies. Conclusion is always a good type of abstract.
yellow_lead 7y ago
> Epidemiologic data suggest that excessive energy intake, particularly in midlife, increases the risks of stroke, Alzheimer’s disease, and Parkinson’s disease. Would be great to have some new therapies for these terrible diseases.
troydavis 7y ago
If anyone has done this without trying or wanting to lose weight (ie, for some other purpose), could you share more? What was your goal? Did you reach it? For 24+ hour fasts, did you deliberately compensate by eating more before and after?
- losteric 7y ago
  I do - partially for experimental treatment of autoimmune conditions, but mostly just a way of life (no goal). 18h regularly, 24h maybe weekly, 36h occasionally. Nothing planned in advance. It's really not that complicated - remember the last time you delayed eating because it wasn't convenient? I just do that with less tolerance for what constititues "inconvenience" and greater tolerance of hunger. Breakfast by eating to satiation, same as any other meal.
- matwood 7y ago
  I started IF with the plan of simply trying to be healthier. I'm big into fitness and read that even at the same calorie levels, there was a study where people who IF got leaner while staying around the same weight. So with those two items in mind I decided to give it a try a couple of years ago. For me, skipping breakfast ended up meaning less calories overall. I did lose some weight, but in a good way. My lifting/cycling/jiu-jitsu training were all positively impacted mainly because I was leaner. I used to be a person who woke up hungry and would immediately eat breakfast. Now hunger isn't really something I notice. Sometimes it will be early afternoon before I think about eating. I learned a lot about my personal nutrition. If I eat poorly the day before, I notice more hunger the next day during IF. Experiencing this feedback loop helps to re-enforce to not eat poorly even during an eating window. So, I hit my two initial goals and will continue to use IF for the ongoing health benefits (anti-inflammation). My weight stabilized ~10 pounds less from where I started, but I did not lose much if any muscle.
torgian 7y ago
I’ve been doing small fasts: typically in the morning, I don’t eat anything until after I work out. So, these usually end up being twelve to 16 hour fasts. I would actually like to try to fast for 24 hours, starting after an evening meal. My problem is I do a lot of cycling. If I don’t eat, I bonk hard and lose energy. So, I would need to time this after a day of resting after a ride.
- TrueGeek 7y ago
  How long are your rides? For rides around an hour to an hour and a half I can ride while fasting, even at the end of an 18 hour fast. The trick is to just work up to it.
  - torgian 7y ago
    Up to 50k there’s no problems. But, above 50k I’m gonna end up emptying my glycogen storage.
    - 609venezia 7y ago
      You might enjoy Attia on distance cycling while in nutritional ketosis: https://peterattiamd.com/ketones-carbohydrates-can-co-exist/ https://peterattiamd.com/ketones-carbohydrates-can-co-exist/ (like you, he eats carbs when riding long distances--even with the aim of staying in ketosis)
      - torgian 7y ago
        This was a very interesting read. I’ve never gotten this in depth with my nutrition before. I’m beginning to think I might want to look more into a keto style diet. I eat a lot of carbs ( mostly clean, veges and fruits ) and cook most of my food at home. I’ve been maintaining weight but haven’t really lost much fat. I know my diet is the reason, so the answer is probably to reduce carbs and increase the proteins. Perhaps try for a longer intermittent fast.
        7y ago
mark_l_watson 7y ago
I agree with the advice here to start slowly. I am not fasting right now because I am on the Dr. Fuhrman Eat to Live anti inflammatory diet, but usually I try to eat all my food on a given day in 8 to 9 hours, which leaves 16 to 15 hours a day fasting. Every few weeks, I like to get a one day fast in, but I am not always consistent with that. By starting slowly, and by eating plenty of food during the eating periods, it is fairly easy to maintain energy during fasting.
monkmartinez 7y ago
Anecdote: I tried intermittent fasting for 11 months with very, very little to show for it. I did the 18 hours off and 6 hours of eating plan. I have also tried a strict vegetarian diet for 6 months with no real changes in blood work. My Cholesterol didn't move to the dismay of my PCP and myself quite frankly. Biology: I am a professional Firefighter that ran 1000 miles and bicycled 250 miles during this time frame. My sleep isn't always consistent which may have played a role due to my profession. I also drink two beers (Karmeliet, Chimay are stocked in my house) with dinner when I am off. So I drink roughly 8 - 10 beers a week. I probably could do better with calorie counting, but frankly it seems futile so long as I like the way I look naked, lol.
- downerending 7y ago
  Pretty cool that we have a firefighter here on HN! What led you here?
- kcdev 7y ago
  Assuming this is accurate, your lifestyle is not typical. Others trying intermittent fasting and/or vegetarian diet will surely see benefits in blood work.
  - Madmallard 7y ago
    You don't know this and you can't claim this.
  - toasterlovin 7y ago
    > will surely* see benefits * may. A) We don’t actually know this, because clinical trials extensive enough to prove it have never been done. B) There’s a lot of variation in humans. Betting that all people will respond the same to any intervention is a bad bet. Case in point: some people survive gunshot wounds to the head.
  - Broken_Hippo 7y ago
    Sometimes, things are just things. Folks can have high cholesterol with a healthy diet, for example. This is because diet is only part of the picture and a partial method of getting cholesterol. You might just be someone that produces too much (or too little). Same with blood pressure, for example. You might just have it. or a medicine or stress might be to blame. And with things like vitamin D - you might not ever make enough to be healthy. Fasting might put you in the hospital! I know a relatively young dude that tried it for religious reasons and wound up hospitalized. He's in his early 30's now, but that was years ago. Some folks cannot tolerate going such periods without eating (diabetics, for instance): They aren't really seeing benefits in blood work. These aren't really outliers either, but more a reminder that there is variation in humans and we can't make such blanket statements for things like diet. At least not with our current information, doubly so when we consider how much of our research has been tainted by food lobbying and other interests in the last 100 years.
shortandsweet 7y ago
Will it help with gout?
- antisocial 7y ago
  You may get an expert's opinion on idmcommunity.idmprogram.com/
- radnam 7y ago
  From my N=1 experience, it has not helped me.
- emmelaich 7y ago
  Avoid purines
mrfusion 7y ago
I’d like to fast until lunch time but I haven’t found any substitute for milk in coffee and I fear that breaks any fasting benefits.
- sytelus 7y ago
  I’m trying out half and half. It’s 4g of fat, 1g carb so very ketogenic. I think it would work great for fasting.
- ivan_ah 7y ago
  Same problem here. I'm also confused because some sources say coffee (black) is OK during fasting, but I've also heard that even black coffee "wakes up" the metabolism enough to lose the benefits. Could someone who knows about this comment or post links to info: is black coffee during fasting periods OK?
  - thatcat 7y ago
    There needs to be something with calories to metabolize to end a fasting period, coffee has low/no calories, you can have up to a fifty calories before the fasting is broken. Caffeine is metabolized, but has no caloric value so I don't think it would count. https://jamesclear.com/reader-mailbag-intermittent-fasting https://jamesclear.com/reader-mailbag-intermittent-fasting
  - edderly 7y ago
    Good discussion here. It sounds like some IF studies have had positive effects even if the participants are taking black coffee, however, the caveat is that they don't know whether not having black coffee would be more beneficial. https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/coffee-and-amino-acids-effect-on-fasting-rhonda-patrick https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/coffee-and-amino-aci...
- chrisco255 7y ago
  Just learn to like black coffee. It's an acquired taste but once you acquire it, it's easy to do.
- 7y ago
alexmingoia 7y ago
Slate Star Codex published an article investigating whether intermittent fasting extends lifespan, and found that the research is flawed: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/12/12/acc-does-calorie-restriction-slow-aging/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/12/12/acc-does-calorie-restr...
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  Luckily, whether intermittent fasting will work for you is really easy to test with an N = 1 study where you are the 1.
  - troydavis 7y ago
    > whether intermittent fasting will work for you is really easy to test This is only true for people who have something they want to change. In practice that basically means weight or a biomarker that’s practical to measure, like fasting blood glucose. For people with normal weight and insulin response, the possible IF benefits seen in mice are difficult or impossible to measure. For example, identifying autophagy in a standard CBC with diff is experimental at best (https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/08a3/bf79055d69da0fe7305255bf3c8a72438d1a.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/08a3/bf79055d69da0fe7305255...).
- emmelaich 7y ago
  The research may be oversold, but I don't think you can conclude that (all) the research is flawed. From that SSC article .. > We, the authors, conclude that the evidence as it stands weakly supports the conclusion that CR modestly extends human life
paulcole 7y ago
Has there been any research into the effects of nightly 6-8 hour fasts? I know this is just an N=1 anecdote but I’ve been on this plan for 35+ years and have nothing but positive things to say about it.
troydavis 7y ago
Related reading: * “System-wide Benefits of Intermeal Fasting by Autophagy“: https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdf/S1550-4131(17)30608-3.pdf https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdf/S1550-4131(17)30608... > We established an isocaloric twice-a-day (ITAD) feeding model wherein ITAD-fed mice consume the same food amount as ad libitum controls but at two short windows early and late in the diurnal cycle. We hypothesized that ITAD feeding will provide two intervals of intermeal fasting per circadian period and induce autophagy. We show that ITAD feeding modifies circadian autophagy and glucose/lipid metabolism that correlate with feeding-driven changes in circulating insulin. ITAD feeding decreases adiposity and, unlike CR, enhances muscle mass. ITAD feeding drives energy expenditure, lowers lipid levels, suppresses gluconeogenesis, and prevents age/obesity-associated metabolic defects. Using liver-, adipose-, myogenic-, and proopiomelanocortin neuron-specific autophagy-null mice, we mapped the contribution of tissue-specific autophagy to system-wide benefits of ITAD feeding. Our studies suggest that consuming two meals a day without CR could prevent the metabolic syndrome. * “Short-term fasting induces profound neuronal autophagy“: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/ > We first validate the approach by showing that it allows the identification and characterization of autophagosomes in the livers of food-restricted mice. We use the method to identify constitutive autophagosomes in cortical neurons and Purkinje cells, and we show that short-term fasting leads to a dramatic upregulation in neuronal autophagy. > … > Our data lead us to speculate that sporadic fasting might represent a simple, safe and inexpensive means to promote this potentially therapeutic neuronal response.
ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago
From my personal experience over the past 2 years, intermittent fasting is great. It doesn't help me lose weight, but I am able to keep off about 80% of the weight I lose when I do a keto diet every few months.
kmbond 7y ago
It's called skipping breakfast. Millenials wanted a new name for it apparently.
antisocial 7y ago
IF is the only diet I can follow, I have been on it for three years, I think I am going to do it for life. I am not affiliated with it, but check out idmcommunity.idmprogram.com/ Also, Dr. Jason Fung is an authority on IF, if you want to check out his videos on YouTube.
- thatcat 7y ago
  that link doesn't work, idmcommunity.com redirects to thefastingmethod.com now.
dpau 7y ago
This is linked on gwern.net, the full article with a lot more links here: https://www.gwern.net/intermittent-fasting https://www.gwern.net/intermittent-fasting
- nestorherre 7y ago
  This is gold, thanks.
- gwern 7y ago
  I didn't write OP, I just host it. And that particular page is also just some random notes I've taken on IF over the years, and not particularly comprehensive or high-quality.
zxcb1 7y ago
Are there any comparable studies taking into account the gut microbiome?
chktts 7y ago
This is just called skipping breakfast. But I guess there was a need for a new fancy term for an old thing.
- Angostura 7y ago
  Except it isn’t. It also involves not eating or snacking after early evening. It is, what it says.
  - thegabriele 7y ago
    For many people there's no snacking or eating outside regular meals (breakfast, lunch, dinner). In this case 16/8 IF would be skipping breakfast which is exactly my case for many years now.
    - chktts 7y ago
      Yep
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >For many people there's no snacking or eating outside regular meals Just not many people in the US...
      - Ididntdothis 7y ago
        Unfortunately the rest of the world is catching up quickly.
        coldtea 7y ago
        True. It's not the US per se, it's the processed food (crap) industry and the work lifestyle (no time to cook).
    - soneca 7y ago
      So for "many" people you could say "skipping breakfast" and it would mean the same thing. But what about the many other people who eat snacks and for whom "skipping breakfast" could mean only 10, 12 hours of fasting? If you need a term for all people to mean exactly what you want to mean, a term that is correct only for "many" people is not enough. Aside, IF also includes 24 or 36 hour fasting.
efiecho 7y ago
I have been intermittent fasting for about 23 hours a day in the last decade and this works very well for me, I couldn't imagine to eat more often than that. However, for the first seven months of 2019 I tried to do 48-72 hour fasts three times every week, but I just couldn't adapt to that. It's nice with the euphoria effect, but in the long run I found it depressing going to sleep without eating and it had a very negative effect on my life quality. Now I'm back at eating a single meal every day and feel great.
- flippyhead 7y ago
  Once I realized that I was simply addicted to food, and that hunger was simply a withdrawal signal, it made it a lot easier to accept that signal as simply useful information instead of something that was necessarily uncomfortable (to be fair, I consider being cold and other such signals in a similar light). Now I rather enjoy being hungry, knowing there will be a brief hump to traverse before my body replies with a number of favorable responses. When traveling or over the holidays I realize I'm eating over longer periods I really notice how much less I like it now. I only do it because of basic, maladapted pleasure seeking behavior.
  - thejackgoode 7y ago
    "withdrawal signal" is a very precise way to phrase it
sfgweilr4f 7y ago
Old-style 8 hour eating window but slightly shortened. 16 hour non-eating. Simple. FWIW I used to do the 12 hour thing. Breakfast at 7. Dinner at 7. Lunch in between. Ditched that and went down to 6-8 hour instead. I've found I can actually do 4 hour eating window but that's irritating for reasons other than hunger/satiety.
Gatsky 7y ago
Intermittent fasting has a nice advantage - nobody can make any money off of it. This gives it an inherent legitimacy. Contrast all other fad diets, and essentially every supplement ever sold.
- asdff 7y ago
  So they don't sell supplements but they will peddle you books, lecture tours, and even special foods at massive cost. It's like any other diet industry past the first glance.
- swah 7y ago
  IF sells black coffee...
- poniko 7y ago
  Fasting is not a diet .. it's whatever diet limited to time .. and yes there are tons of 'diets' that say they work better with fasting and sell crappy books about it ..
- agumonkey 7y ago
  Surely people can make money around it. You cannot sell a void [0] but you can very effectively sell void consulting and magazines. [0] even this is debatable
  - Gatsky 7y ago
    I was brainstorming with a friend about creating an alternative social environment to replace restaurants for fasters, but couldn't come up with any good ideas.
    - agumonkey 7y ago
      restingrants, a place to sit quietly and vent
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      La Croix bar?
roystonvassey 7y ago
https://telegra.ph/My-experiment-with-IF-03-09 https://telegra.ph/My-experiment-with-IF-03-09 A good time and place to plug results of the IF experiment I did a few years back. FWIW, I have been on a no-breakfast, no-lunch protocol, on weekdays since then and I absolutely love it because it keeps me sharp through the day (no post-glucose “dullness”).
- sytelus 7y ago
  This is a good experiment although you haven’t mentioned how you eat when breaking the fast. It seems a lot of advantages of IF will be suppressed if you continue consuming refined carbs during eating window. I am interested in IF setting where you consume same calories during eating window but only through ketogenic diet.
  - roystonvassey 7y ago
    Thanks! Yes, I can imagine that that hypothesis would hold true and probably contributed to a higher fat loss. But, like I mentioned, I was keen to isolate <i>only</i> the fasting effect, without controlling for the diet.
adamqureshi 7y ago
I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes. I have been on the intermittent fasting thing for about 6 months. I started with 14 hours then 16 hours and now 18-20 hour fast. I dropped 10 pounds. I have a history of diabetes in my family. I took the 28andME DNA test and it said i have a predisposition to diabetes. The doc said to me. You have pre-diabetes just continue to workout and watch what you eat and your insurance does not cover a dietician and then that was it. It was VERY HARD to not eat in morning (black coffee) and after 1 month i got used to , it was very hard to skip lunch and after a few weeks i got used to that. Now now my feeding window is 4pm-8pm. I was pigging out at 4pm but have learned to control that. I workout in a fasted stated 12-1pm ( body weight , pullups. push-ups. 1 mile sprint HIIT and planks) I still get hunger pangs around 3pm its as if my body is getting ready to feed / knows food is coming around 4pm. Another thing that has happened is water tastes "sweeter" very unusual to actually taste water. The result for me is EVERYTHING has improved. I am 48 years old. No more carb fog. No more headaches. I think, i don't know buy i have this clarity i think my eye site has improved too. I mean Im still experimenting but i just feel fantastic. I will be getting blood work done again soon. It's working for me , i don't know if it will work for others. I tell everyone about it. Good LUCKY! :-)
- imglorp 7y ago
  You can get some of these benefits on keto, including steady energy levels, reduced brain fog, and no morning carb hangover headaches. The good news is you can eat what you want, the bad news is basically no carbs ever which makes eating out difficult. I'm surprised a narrow IF feeding window gives the carb benefits, but sounds worth a try for sustainability long term.
  - maroonblazer 7y ago
    This was my experience when I jumped on the Paleo bandwagon about 10 years ago. Prior to that carbs were a substantial part of my diet. English muffins, bagels, toast and cereal in the morning, sandwiches for lunch and bread as part of every dinner, along with more cereal as a nighttime snack. After cutting all that out my energy levels were much more even. It was like night & day. I also dropped several pounds over the course of the first month. I'll occasionally treat myself to bread/carbs but nowhere near to the degree I used to.
laplacesdemon48 7y ago
Are there any active studies on intermittent fasting in healthy young adults? (NY area) I’m interested in intermittent fasting but I’d like to objectively track the effects beyond fat/weight loss. For example: ketone body blood concentration, respiratory exchange ratio, heart rate variability, etc. I couldn’t find anything here but maybe I’m not looking in the right place: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=intermittent+fasting&Search=Apply&recrs=a&age_v=&gndr=&type=&rslt= https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=intermittent+fas...
acconrad 7y ago
Please understand that everyone's body is different. What works for you may not work for someone else. This is SO important in nutritional research because in every single one these threads there is always someone who will say X worked for me and someone else who says X didn't work for me. And BOTH are right. Example: I've done IF for years as a competitive bodybuilder and powerlifter. I've gained and lost weight on IF. IF should (until more research is done) simply be viewed as a compliance tactic. In other words, if it helps you eat healthier and maintain a healthy weight: great! If not, don't assume you're missing out on some magical panacea of health and vitality. Recently I stopped doing IF and eating more frequently for performance reasons so I can reach the national circuit in powerlifting. My blood work is still fine. My weight is still fine. Again, YMMV.
- SensateCreature 7y ago
  This. IF is just one of the four approaches[1] to calorie restriction, which seems to be the key to health and longevity. [1] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMuOH8GUUAAeWzQ.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMuOH8GUUAAeWzQ.jpg:large
jl2718 7y ago
I’ve been doing some form of intermittent fasting for a large part of the last 15 years. I started with 36 hours once a week because I made money based on the appearance of my body. It works tremendously well in the short-term, but it’s deceptive. The tissue loss is mostly fat, which looks great, but there is definitely some muscle loss, which is an order of magnitude harder to gain back, so the long-term effect is muscle wasting and fat rebound as caloric demands drop. It’s easy to see in my photos. Later I did OMAD several times for stretches of about a year with roughly similar short and long-term effects. Recently I completed a 100-hour fast. There are a few basic issues. First, with IF you’re not really fasting as long as you think you are. Small intestines take about 6 hours, and the colon turns fIber into MCTs for days. Second, the insulin surge becomes preferential to fatty acid storage over muscle glycogen. Third, you lose the ghrelin-induced GH that releases fatty acids throughout the day to feed the muscles. There may be autophagy benefits, but that may be as true for satellite cells as it is for cancer, and maybe more so because cancer usually originates in fatty tissues with lots of energy nearby. At this point, by experience and by science, I don’t think IF is the best diet protocol if you have the discipline for a more continuous protocol. I don’t, so I can’t say I’ve tried that, and I hate the fat on my body, so I’m not sure where to go from here. I’m not 100% convinced either way, but I wanted to give a balancing perspective.

297 points by SQL2219 7y ago

intermittent fasting is an eating disorder

If people are interested in learning more about fasting, I put together a few visual guides on it here - http://impossiblehq.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting http://impossiblehq.com/nutrition/intermittent-fasting I also highly recommend the zero fasting app for tracking. Super simple and really clean app that makes tracking fasts simple. Start small and see how it goes. I find the 16/8 routine tends to work best for me personally with 36 hour fasts sprinkled in every couple weeks.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
How do you maintain energy levels through a 36 hour fast? Edit: Thanks all! This’ll help me progress from 16/8 to consistent longer fasts.
- i_am_proteus 7y ago
  Build up to it from shorter fasts. Pay close attention to caloric intake, it's easy to undereat when fasting. Eventually you will be unable to not maintain energy levels though the fast.
- joelrunyon 7y ago
  I am relatively adapted to it at this point, so it doesn't bother me as much. I time it so I start the fast towards the evening and then it ends mid-morning - so you're only really pushing through one full day without food. I'll have coffee/tea for caffeine and electrolytes seem to help depending on your situation. Start with several smaller fasts before going full 36 and if you need to eat before the full 36 hours are up, don't kill yourself. The biggest realization is just coming to terms with how much what a lot of people think of as "hunger" is often just boredom or cravings and not actual hunger. That was eye-opening.
  - sapanakothari 7y ago
    Do you break fast eating specific things or just go about eating your usual meal?
    - joelrunyon 7y ago
      I typically don't eat breakfast. I eat a relatively low-carb diet throughout the day w/ more carbohydrates around my workout (in the evening)
- chiefalchemist 7y ago
  While I haven't done 36, 24 is relatively easy. The idea that your body needs constant food intake is a modern myth. It's mostly your mind that's been programmed to want to eat that often. Also, once you eat the insulin spike triggers the next wave of craving, and so on. Fasting is not the same because you're well, um, fasting.
  - mark_l_watson 7y ago
    Also, if you avoid sugar for a week before fasting that helps a lot, or rather, I should say that it helps me. Eating sugar messes up my ability to know if I am really hungry or if it is just too many Candida bacteria in my system messing with my brain chemistry. Anyway, if you like, try avoiding sugar leading up to avoiding fasting.
    - chiefalchemist 7y ago
      I would say that avoiding sugar as much as possible in general is a positive. Avoiding unnecessary insulin spikes is a positive.
  - antisocial 7y ago
    I have been on IF for almost three years and started recently on 36 hours once every three weeks. If you can do 24, 36 is not too much of a problem. My last 12 hours of the 36 hours is sleeping, so I don't think about food or feel hungry when I am sleeping. Also, I ended up doing it for 38-40 even though my intention was to do it for 36 hours because of my sleep.
  - lloeki 7y ago
    > The idea that your body needs constant food intake is a modern myth. Modern food intake also trains the digestive tract (most notably stomach) to never be empty, and we end up confusing signals of hunger with an empty stomach. I heard that Japanese (or was it China? Korea?) people have this rule of thumb of eating only up to ~80% of stomach volume; no idea if it’s factually true but having this rule of thumb of not filling myself to the brim as we seem to culturally do currently seems to be extremely positive I’m my experience. Letting go the social baggage of “bon vivant” and “oh my god I’m so full this was soooo good” seems to be just as hard as not smoking when many around are smoking. “one should eat to live, and not live to eat” says Molière, but even being acutely aware of that, I struggle to fight the deeply ingrained social pressure, as even most foodies/fasters I know seem to subscribe to this “all you can eat” way of life (although with healthy food) Goddamit when I was feeling great, all sporty and fit (athletic even, dare I say) everyone was saying I was too thin, and now that I feel like shit having some 10+kg excessive weight to shed, everyone around says there’s no need to, and worry a lot when I don’t take a second or third serving.
- hhjinks 7y ago
  I have done a couple 36 hour fasts. What broke me was hunger, not low energy. Didn't feel any less energized than usual, really. But resisting the urge to eat after you've been hungry all day and someone puts a meal in front of you is hard.
  - beagle3 7y ago
    in many people’s experience (mine included) there’s phase change sometime in the 48-72 hour mark in which hunger/appetite essentially disappears (some describe it is gone, some as easily ignored background noise) Personally, I’ve gone more than 14 days several times, I usually start when not feeling very well (and lacking appetite) which makes even the first couple of days trivial. If you do want to go farther than 36 (at your own risk of course - I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice) make sure you are well vitamined, well hydrated, and well electrolyted (e.g. with snake juice) - very often, need for some essential vitamin/mineral masquerades as hunger or appetite.
    - CuriousSkeptic 7y ago
      To underline this. People have died starting eating after a long fast. While the risks are probably manageable, and other people have successfully been fasting a full year, do educate yourself on Refeeding syndrome before doing any extended fasts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome
    - commandlinefan 7y ago
      > more than 14 days several times Isn't that how anorexics end up unable to eat at all, though? They go so long without eating that the "good" bacteria that permits digestion disappear so they're no longer able to process food.
      - beagle3 7y ago
        I am not familiar with the process anorexics go through, but it is likely very different - thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, do fasting of 2-7 days on a regular basis with no ill effect (on the contrary - often with good effect). Good bacteria can likely be reinstated by the body itself (the appendix is a cache for them), from food, or if all else fails - by FMT. I’m not an expert on this, and may be wrong, but from a lot of reading - any anorexia symptoms and processes seem to be entirely absent from mindful fasting.
everdev 7y ago
Do you find that you're able to do cognitively demanding tasks while fasting? Even small fasts seem to sap my concentration and critical thinking. Once I eat again I feel like I think better.
- smilliken 7y ago
  You could switch your metabolism to ketosis, then your energy level won't depend on blood sugar and will be more consistent through the day. I do my most cognitively demanding work without food.
- losteric 7y ago
  Mental clarity is a challenge when fasting on an otherwise stereotypical American diet... those blood glucose swings are no joke. However I have no problems on keto, or even just a consistently low-GI low-carb diet. If anything, fasting seems to improve my discipline and "depth-first" thinking.
  - VeninVidiaVicii 7y ago
    Interesting. I did an "animal-product only" diet for about six months, and I began to feel sorry for everyone else and their inability to think deeply. I was in an almost constant state of enlightenment. Then my buds convinced me to go on a 2000 mile road trip, and after the first stop at Wendy's I lost it, and haven't had the will to go back. It's been like 4 years now.
    - shrimpx 7y ago
      Can you elaborate on what you ate? Curious.
    - ChrisCinelli 7y ago
      animal-product only ? No veggies?
      - coldtea 7y ago
notadoc 7y ago
> I find the 16/8 routine tends to work best for me personally That timeline as "fasting" is funny to me up because that is basically how people used to eat in 20th century USA, pre-obesity. You'd eat three meals a day, all reasonably sized (or even small by todays standards), and at specific times. No you can't have a snack, that would ruin your appetite! But now people are addicted to food and abuse it rampantly as is evidenced by the majorities waistlines and health care expenditure, it's terrible for us all but it's not only the most culturally acceptable form of substance abuse, it's widely encouraged and even celebrated. Strange times.
collyw 7y ago
I want to know the relative benefits of the different protocols (I asked on the fasting subreddit, but didn't get much response). I am not overweight, but I see that IF can increase growth hormone and testosterone, and increase insulin sensitivity, which are of interest to me. I would like to know if I am better doing a couple of longer fasts peer week, or if skipping breakfast would be enough. (Longer fasts feel like they have more benefit, but are more effort, especially when I am trying NOT to loose weight). Does anyone know of anywhere good to compare the benefits of different IF protocols?

ve55 7y ago

I've been engaging in intermittent fasting to various extents for almost a decade now and am a huge fan of it. It takes a bit to get used to and should be adapted to over time, but I very much love the feeling of fasting for short periods and the freedom I'm granted to be able to easily skip meals, most commonly breakfast and lunch. I often only eat one meal a day, which saves me time, energy, and money, but I also enjoy the meal more, as I can include large portions of a lot of food groups in my single meal. That this has many potential health benefits makes this style of eating appear even more appealing. Caloric restriction, although not quite the same as intermittent fasting, does appear to be one of the more promising methods we already have to help promote human longevity.

gtt 7y ago

Too bad, there is no abstract in the paper.

xtracto 7y ago
>Animal models show that intermittent fasting improves health throughout the life span, whereas clinical studies have mainly involved relatively short- term interventions, over a period of months. > It remains to be determined whether people can maintain intermittent fasting for years and potentially accrue the benefits seen in animal models. Furthermore, clinical studies have focused mainly on overweight young and middle-age adults, and we cannot generalize to other age groups the benefits and safety of intermittent fasting that have been observed in these studies. Conclusion is always a good type of abstract.

yellow_lead 7y ago

> Epidemiologic data suggest that excessive energy intake, particularly in midlife, increases the risks of stroke, Alzheimer’s disease, and Parkinson’s disease. Would be great to have some new therapies for these terrible diseases.

troydavis 7y ago

If anyone has done this without trying or wanting to lose weight (ie, for some other purpose), could you share more? What was your goal? Did you reach it? For 24+ hour fasts, did you deliberately compensate by eating more before and after?

losteric 7y ago
I do - partially for experimental treatment of autoimmune conditions, but mostly just a way of life (no goal). 18h regularly, 24h maybe weekly, 36h occasionally. Nothing planned in advance. It's really not that complicated - remember the last time you delayed eating because it wasn't convenient? I just do that with less tolerance for what constititues "inconvenience" and greater tolerance of hunger. Breakfast by eating to satiation, same as any other meal.
matwood 7y ago
I started IF with the plan of simply trying to be healthier. I'm big into fitness and read that even at the same calorie levels, there was a study where people who IF got leaner while staying around the same weight. So with those two items in mind I decided to give it a try a couple of years ago. For me, skipping breakfast ended up meaning less calories overall. I did lose some weight, but in a good way. My lifting/cycling/jiu-jitsu training were all positively impacted mainly because I was leaner. I used to be a person who woke up hungry and would immediately eat breakfast. Now hunger isn't really something I notice. Sometimes it will be early afternoon before I think about eating. I learned a lot about my personal nutrition. If I eat poorly the day before, I notice more hunger the next day during IF. Experiencing this feedback loop helps to re-enforce to not eat poorly even during an eating window. So, I hit my two initial goals and will continue to use IF for the ongoing health benefits (anti-inflammation). My weight stabilized ~10 pounds less from where I started, but I did not lose much if any muscle.

torgian 7y ago

I’ve been doing small fasts: typically in the morning, I don’t eat anything until after I work out. So, these usually end up being twelve to 16 hour fasts. I would actually like to try to fast for 24 hours, starting after an evening meal. My problem is I do a lot of cycling. If I don’t eat, I bonk hard and lose energy. So, I would need to time this after a day of resting after a ride.

TrueGeek 7y ago
How long are your rides? For rides around an hour to an hour and a half I can ride while fasting, even at the end of an 18 hour fast. The trick is to just work up to it.
- torgian 7y ago
  Up to 50k there’s no problems. But, above 50k I’m gonna end up emptying my glycogen storage.
  - 609venezia 7y ago
    You might enjoy Attia on distance cycling while in nutritional ketosis: https://peterattiamd.com/ketones-carbohydrates-can-co-exist/ https://peterattiamd.com/ketones-carbohydrates-can-co-exist/ (like you, he eats carbs when riding long distances--even with the aim of staying in ketosis)
    - torgian 7y ago
      This was a very interesting read. I’ve never gotten this in depth with my nutrition before. I’m beginning to think I might want to look more into a keto style diet. I eat a lot of carbs ( mostly clean, veges and fruits ) and cook most of my food at home. I’ve been maintaining weight but haven’t really lost much fat. I know my diet is the reason, so the answer is probably to reduce carbs and increase the proteins. Perhaps try for a longer intermittent fast.
      - 7y ago

mark_l_watson 7y ago

I agree with the advice here to start slowly. I am not fasting right now because I am on the Dr. Fuhrman Eat to Live anti inflammatory diet, but usually I try to eat all my food on a given day in 8 to 9 hours, which leaves 16 to 15 hours a day fasting. Every few weeks, I like to get a one day fast in, but I am not always consistent with that. By starting slowly, and by eating plenty of food during the eating periods, it is fairly easy to maintain energy during fasting.

monkmartinez 7y ago

Anecdote: I tried intermittent fasting for 11 months with very, very little to show for it. I did the 18 hours off and 6 hours of eating plan. I have also tried a strict vegetarian diet for 6 months with no real changes in blood work. My Cholesterol didn't move to the dismay of my PCP and myself quite frankly. Biology: I am a professional Firefighter that ran 1000 miles and bicycled 250 miles during this time frame. My sleep isn't always consistent which may have played a role due to my profession. I also drink two beers (Karmeliet, Chimay are stocked in my house) with dinner when I am off. So I drink roughly 8 - 10 beers a week. I probably could do better with calorie counting, but frankly it seems futile so long as I like the way I look naked, lol.

downerending 7y ago
Pretty cool that we have a firefighter here on HN! What led you here?
kcdev 7y ago
Assuming this is accurate, your lifestyle is not typical. Others trying intermittent fasting and/or vegetarian diet will surely see benefits in blood work.
- Madmallard 7y ago
  You don't know this and you can't claim this.
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  > will surely* see benefits * may. A) We don’t actually know this, because clinical trials extensive enough to prove it have never been done. B) There’s a lot of variation in humans. Betting that all people will respond the same to any intervention is a bad bet. Case in point: some people survive gunshot wounds to the head.
- Broken_Hippo 7y ago
  Sometimes, things are just things. Folks can have high cholesterol with a healthy diet, for example. This is because diet is only part of the picture and a partial method of getting cholesterol. You might just be someone that produces too much (or too little). Same with blood pressure, for example. You might just have it. or a medicine or stress might be to blame. And with things like vitamin D - you might not ever make enough to be healthy. Fasting might put you in the hospital! I know a relatively young dude that tried it for religious reasons and wound up hospitalized. He's in his early 30's now, but that was years ago. Some folks cannot tolerate going such periods without eating (diabetics, for instance): They aren't really seeing benefits in blood work. These aren't really outliers either, but more a reminder that there is variation in humans and we can't make such blanket statements for things like diet. At least not with our current information, doubly so when we consider how much of our research has been tainted by food lobbying and other interests in the last 100 years.

shortandsweet 7y ago

Will it help with gout?

antisocial 7y ago
You may get an expert's opinion on idmcommunity.idmprogram.com/
radnam 7y ago
From my N=1 experience, it has not helped me.
emmelaich 7y ago
Avoid purines

mrfusion 7y ago

I’d like to fast until lunch time but I haven’t found any substitute for milk in coffee and I fear that breaks any fasting benefits.

sytelus 7y ago
I’m trying out half and half. It’s 4g of fat, 1g carb so very ketogenic. I think it would work great for fasting.
ivan_ah 7y ago
Same problem here. I'm also confused because some sources say coffee (black) is OK during fasting, but I've also heard that even black coffee "wakes up" the metabolism enough to lose the benefits. Could someone who knows about this comment or post links to info: is black coffee during fasting periods OK?
- thatcat 7y ago
  There needs to be something with calories to metabolize to end a fasting period, coffee has low/no calories, you can have up to a fifty calories before the fasting is broken. Caffeine is metabolized, but has no caloric value so I don't think it would count. https://jamesclear.com/reader-mailbag-intermittent-fasting https://jamesclear.com/reader-mailbag-intermittent-fasting
- edderly 7y ago
  Good discussion here. It sounds like some IF studies have had positive effects even if the participants are taking black coffee, however, the caveat is that they don't know whether not having black coffee would be more beneficial. https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/coffee-and-amino-acids-effect-on-fasting-rhonda-patrick https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/coffee-and-amino-aci...
chrisco255 7y ago
Just learn to like black coffee. It's an acquired taste but once you acquire it, it's easy to do.
7y ago

alexmingoia 7y ago

Slate Star Codex published an article investigating whether intermittent fasting extends lifespan, and found that the research is flawed: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/12/12/acc-does-calorie-restriction-slow-aging/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/12/12/acc-does-calorie-restr...

toasterlovin 7y ago
Luckily, whether intermittent fasting will work for you is really easy to test with an N = 1 study where you are the 1.
- troydavis 7y ago
  > whether intermittent fasting will work for you is really easy to test This is only true for people who have something they want to change. In practice that basically means weight or a biomarker that’s practical to measure, like fasting blood glucose. For people with normal weight and insulin response, the possible IF benefits seen in mice are difficult or impossible to measure. For example, identifying autophagy in a standard CBC with diff is experimental at best (https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/08a3/bf79055d69da0fe7305255bf3c8a72438d1a.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/08a3/bf79055d69da0fe7305255...).
emmelaich 7y ago
The research may be oversold, but I don't think you can conclude that (all) the research is flawed. From that SSC article .. > We, the authors, conclude that the evidence as it stands weakly supports the conclusion that CR modestly extends human life

paulcole 7y ago

Has there been any research into the effects of nightly 6-8 hour fasts? I know this is just an N=1 anecdote but I’ve been on this plan for 35+ years and have nothing but positive things to say about it.

troydavis 7y ago

Related reading: * “System-wide Benefits of Intermeal Fasting by Autophagy“: https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdf/S1550-4131(17)30608-3.pdf https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdf/S1550-4131(17)30608... > We established an isocaloric twice-a-day (ITAD) feeding model wherein ITAD-fed mice consume the same food amount as ad libitum controls but at two short windows early and late in the diurnal cycle. We hypothesized that ITAD feeding will provide two intervals of intermeal fasting per circadian period and induce autophagy. We show that ITAD feeding modifies circadian autophagy and glucose/lipid metabolism that correlate with feeding-driven changes in circulating insulin. ITAD feeding decreases adiposity and, unlike CR, enhances muscle mass. ITAD feeding drives energy expenditure, lowers lipid levels, suppresses gluconeogenesis, and prevents age/obesity-associated metabolic defects. Using liver-, adipose-, myogenic-, and proopiomelanocortin neuron-specific autophagy-null mice, we mapped the contribution of tissue-specific autophagy to system-wide benefits of ITAD feeding. Our studies suggest that consuming two meals a day without CR could prevent the metabolic syndrome. * “Short-term fasting induces profound neuronal autophagy“: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106288/ > We first validate the approach by showing that it allows the identification and characterization of autophagosomes in the livers of food-restricted mice. We use the method to identify constitutive autophagosomes in cortical neurons and Purkinje cells, and we show that short-term fasting leads to a dramatic upregulation in neuronal autophagy. > … > Our data lead us to speculate that sporadic fasting might represent a simple, safe and inexpensive means to promote this potentially therapeutic neuronal response.

ropiwqefjnpoa 7y ago

From my personal experience over the past 2 years, intermittent fasting is great. It doesn't help me lose weight, but I am able to keep off about 80% of the weight I lose when I do a keto diet every few months.

kmbond 7y ago

It's called skipping breakfast. Millenials wanted a new name for it apparently.

antisocial 7y ago

IF is the only diet I can follow, I have been on it for three years, I think I am going to do it for life. I am not affiliated with it, but check out idmcommunity.idmprogram.com/ Also, Dr. Jason Fung is an authority on IF, if you want to check out his videos on YouTube.

thatcat 7y ago
that link doesn't work, idmcommunity.com redirects to thefastingmethod.com now.

dpau 7y ago

This is linked on gwern.net, the full article with a lot more links here: https://www.gwern.net/intermittent-fasting https://www.gwern.net/intermittent-fasting

nestorherre 7y ago
This is gold, thanks.
gwern 7y ago
I didn't write OP, I just host it. And that particular page is also just some random notes I've taken on IF over the years, and not particularly comprehensive or high-quality.

zxcb1 7y ago

Are there any comparable studies taking into account the gut microbiome?

chktts 7y ago

This is just called skipping breakfast. But I guess there was a need for a new fancy term for an old thing.

Angostura 7y ago
Except it isn’t. It also involves not eating or snacking after early evening. It is, what it says.
- thegabriele 7y ago
  For many people there's no snacking or eating outside regular meals (breakfast, lunch, dinner). In this case 16/8 IF would be skipping breakfast which is exactly my case for many years now.
  - chktts 7y ago
    Yep
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >For many people there's no snacking or eating outside regular meals Just not many people in the US...
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      Unfortunately the rest of the world is catching up quickly.
      - coldtea 7y ago
        True. It's not the US per se, it's the processed food (crap) industry and the work lifestyle (no time to cook).
  - soneca 7y ago
    So for "many" people you could say "skipping breakfast" and it would mean the same thing. But what about the many other people who eat snacks and for whom "skipping breakfast" could mean only 10, 12 hours of fasting? If you need a term for all people to mean exactly what you want to mean, a term that is correct only for "many" people is not enough. Aside, IF also includes 24 or 36 hour fasting.

efiecho 7y ago

I have been intermittent fasting for about 23 hours a day in the last decade and this works very well for me, I couldn't imagine to eat more often than that. However, for the first seven months of 2019 I tried to do 48-72 hour fasts three times every week, but I just couldn't adapt to that. It's nice with the euphoria effect, but in the long run I found it depressing going to sleep without eating and it had a very negative effect on my life quality. Now I'm back at eating a single meal every day and feel great.

flippyhead 7y ago
Once I realized that I was simply addicted to food, and that hunger was simply a withdrawal signal, it made it a lot easier to accept that signal as simply useful information instead of something that was necessarily uncomfortable (to be fair, I consider being cold and other such signals in a similar light). Now I rather enjoy being hungry, knowing there will be a brief hump to traverse before my body replies with a number of favorable responses. When traveling or over the holidays I realize I'm eating over longer periods I really notice how much less I like it now. I only do it because of basic, maladapted pleasure seeking behavior.
- thejackgoode 7y ago
  "withdrawal signal" is a very precise way to phrase it

sfgweilr4f 7y ago

Old-style 8 hour eating window but slightly shortened. 16 hour non-eating. Simple. FWIW I used to do the 12 hour thing. Breakfast at 7. Dinner at 7. Lunch in between. Ditched that and went down to 6-8 hour instead. I've found I can actually do 4 hour eating window but that's irritating for reasons other than hunger/satiety.

Gatsky 7y ago

Intermittent fasting has a nice advantage - nobody can make any money off of it. This gives it an inherent legitimacy. Contrast all other fad diets, and essentially every supplement ever sold.

asdff 7y ago
So they don't sell supplements but they will peddle you books, lecture tours, and even special foods at massive cost. It's like any other diet industry past the first glance.
swah 7y ago
IF sells black coffee...
poniko 7y ago
Fasting is not a diet .. it's whatever diet limited to time .. and yes there are tons of 'diets' that say they work better with fasting and sell crappy books about it ..
agumonkey 7y ago
Surely people can make money around it. You cannot sell a void [0] but you can very effectively sell void consulting and magazines. [0] even this is debatable
- Gatsky 7y ago
  I was brainstorming with a friend about creating an alternative social environment to replace restaurants for fasters, but couldn't come up with any good ideas.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    restingrants, a place to sit quietly and vent
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    La Croix bar?

roystonvassey 7y ago

https://telegra.ph/My-experiment-with-IF-03-09 https://telegra.ph/My-experiment-with-IF-03-09 A good time and place to plug results of the IF experiment I did a few years back. FWIW, I have been on a no-breakfast, no-lunch protocol, on weekdays since then and I absolutely love it because it keeps me sharp through the day (no post-glucose “dullness”).

sytelus 7y ago
This is a good experiment although you haven’t mentioned how you eat when breaking the fast. It seems a lot of advantages of IF will be suppressed if you continue consuming refined carbs during eating window. I am interested in IF setting where you consume same calories during eating window but only through ketogenic diet.
- roystonvassey 7y ago
  Thanks! Yes, I can imagine that that hypothesis would hold true and probably contributed to a higher fat loss. But, like I mentioned, I was keen to isolate <i>only</i> the fasting effect, without controlling for the diet.

adamqureshi 7y ago

I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes. I have been on the intermittent fasting thing for about 6 months. I started with 14 hours then 16 hours and now 18-20 hour fast. I dropped 10 pounds. I have a history of diabetes in my family. I took the 28andME DNA test and it said i have a predisposition to diabetes. The doc said to me. You have pre-diabetes just continue to workout and watch what you eat and your insurance does not cover a dietician and then that was it. It was VERY HARD to not eat in morning (black coffee) and after 1 month i got used to , it was very hard to skip lunch and after a few weeks i got used to that. Now now my feeding window is 4pm-8pm. I was pigging out at 4pm but have learned to control that. I workout in a fasted stated 12-1pm ( body weight , pullups. push-ups. 1 mile sprint HIIT and planks) I still get hunger pangs around 3pm its as if my body is getting ready to feed / knows food is coming around 4pm. Another thing that has happened is water tastes "sweeter" very unusual to actually taste water. The result for me is EVERYTHING has improved. I am 48 years old. No more carb fog. No more headaches. I think, i don't know buy i have this clarity i think my eye site has improved too. I mean Im still experimenting but i just feel fantastic. I will be getting blood work done again soon. It's working for me , i don't know if it will work for others. I tell everyone about it. Good LUCKY! :-)

imglorp 7y ago
You can get some of these benefits on keto, including steady energy levels, reduced brain fog, and no morning carb hangover headaches. The good news is you can eat what you want, the bad news is basically no carbs ever which makes eating out difficult. I'm surprised a narrow IF feeding window gives the carb benefits, but sounds worth a try for sustainability long term.
- maroonblazer 7y ago
  This was my experience when I jumped on the Paleo bandwagon about 10 years ago. Prior to that carbs were a substantial part of my diet. English muffins, bagels, toast and cereal in the morning, sandwiches for lunch and bread as part of every dinner, along with more cereal as a nighttime snack. After cutting all that out my energy levels were much more even. It was like night & day. I also dropped several pounds over the course of the first month. I'll occasionally treat myself to bread/carbs but nowhere near to the degree I used to.

laplacesdemon48 7y ago

Are there any active studies on intermittent fasting in healthy young adults? (NY area) I’m interested in intermittent fasting but I’d like to objectively track the effects beyond fat/weight loss. For example: ketone body blood concentration, respiratory exchange ratio, heart rate variability, etc. I couldn’t find anything here but maybe I’m not looking in the right place: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=intermittent+fasting&Search=Apply&recrs=a&age_v=&gndr=&type=&rslt= https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=intermittent+fas...

acconrad 7y ago

Please understand that everyone's body is different. What works for you may not work for someone else. This is SO important in nutritional research because in every single one these threads there is always someone who will say X worked for me and someone else who says X didn't work for me. And BOTH are right. Example: I've done IF for years as a competitive bodybuilder and powerlifter. I've gained and lost weight on IF. IF should (until more research is done) simply be viewed as a compliance tactic. In other words, if it helps you eat healthier and maintain a healthy weight: great! If not, don't assume you're missing out on some magical panacea of health and vitality. Recently I stopped doing IF and eating more frequently for performance reasons so I can reach the national circuit in powerlifting. My blood work is still fine. My weight is still fine. Again, YMMV.

SensateCreature 7y ago
This. IF is just one of the four approaches[1] to calorie restriction, which seems to be the key to health and longevity. [1] https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMuOH8GUUAAeWzQ.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMuOH8GUUAAeWzQ.jpg:large

jl2718 7y ago

I’ve been doing some form of intermittent fasting for a large part of the last 15 years. I started with 36 hours once a week because I made money based on the appearance of my body. It works tremendously well in the short-term, but it’s deceptive. The tissue loss is mostly fat, which looks great, but there is definitely some muscle loss, which is an order of magnitude harder to gain back, so the long-term effect is muscle wasting and fat rebound as caloric demands drop. It’s easy to see in my photos. Later I did OMAD several times for stretches of about a year with roughly similar short and long-term effects. Recently I completed a 100-hour fast. There are a few basic issues. First, with IF you’re not really fasting as long as you think you are. Small intestines take about 6 hours, and the colon turns fIber into MCTs for days. Second, the insulin surge becomes preferential to fatty acid storage over muscle glycogen. Third, you lose the ghrelin-induced GH that releases fatty acids throughout the day to feed the muscles. There may be autophagy benefits, but that may be as true for satellite cells as it is for cancer, and maybe more so because cancer usually originates in fatty tissues with lots of energy nearby. At this point, by experience and by science, I don’t think IF is the best diet protocol if you have the discipline for a more continuous protocol. I don’t, so I can’t say I’ve tried that, and I hate the fat on my body, so I’m not sure where to go from here. I’m not 100% convinced either way, but I wanted to give a balancing perspective.