11 ms·

I never owned an iOS device personally and when I offered my help to an older relative who wanted to bookmark a page on their home screen, it took me like 10 mi

by hs86 7y ago

I never owned an iOS device personally and when I offered my help to an older relative who wanted to bookmark a page on their home screen, it took me like 10 minutes to find out that I have to scroll horizontally on that Safari share menu. Due to the auto-hiding scrollbar and no cut off icons to the right, I had no idea that scrolling horizontally was possible. This gets worse whenever I see new Apple keynotes about their latest iPad gestures for multitasking or text editing. On the computer I have visible menus where I can peek the shortcut for each action but is there anything like that on i(Pad)OS? Just adding more and more gestures without giving the user some intuitive hints/signifiers seems like a degradation of usability. The scrollbar tells me that there is more to show and auto-hiding it was a first step into the wrong direction. I am glad that Android got rid of the dedicated menu button which only worked in very special places without showing any on-screen indication for its availability and I feel like the Option key on Macs is still hiding important things from their users. The now deprecated(?) 3D Touch on iPhones also seems to suffer from this issue. I was expecting some sort of visual clues to the user (like differently colored buttons) that certain elements offered special actions with a harder press but instead the 3D Touch-enabled elements continued to look the same and mostly the tech-savvy users kept up with where this feature was enabled and where not.

Hackbraten 7y ago
> Due to the auto-hiding scrollbar and no cut off icons to the right, I had no idea that scrolling horizontally was possible. This appears to be fixed on iOS 13. Actions are now arranged vertically. The app bar above the actions still scrolls horizontally but it now hints at that by cutting off icons.
- wlesieutre 7y ago
  Now due to the auto-hiding scrollbar and no cut-off list items to the bottom, people have no idea that scrolling vertically is possible https://tyler.io/perfectly-cropped/ https://tyler.io/perfectly-cropped/ But at least we've rotated the problem by 90 degrees :P
  - Hackbraten 7y ago
    Oh I see. Didn’t occur to me because I discovered the list by coincidence. Apple indeed overdid it with all that minimalism.
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    Man, that was an infuriating read
- SiVal 7y ago
  Yes, and since there are so few varieties of screen size, having it cut off perfectly with no ugly hints (scrollbar, cut-off icon, or even off-centered item) is no accident and shows much higher they prioritize better-looking over more-useful. When I got my first iPhone, my first touch screen device, I noticed their beautiful little slider switches for all the settings. They didn't work very reliably, though. I would use the touch interface to drag the slider, and it sometimes worked but often failed. Well, touch screens aren't perfect, right? Until someone eventually saw me doing it and said, "You can't drag it, you have to just tap it." It turns out to be just a checkbox. A real slider switch has to be dragged and won't work if tapped, and an on-screen checkbox is the reverse, and they decided to use an image of the former as their standard implementation of the latter on a touch screen. Someone at the very top very deliberately decided that was what they wanted most.
  - bangonkeyboard 7y ago
    UISwitches can be dragged by design. Prior to iOS 7, when dragged they followed the position of your finger directly, like physical switches. Post-iOS 7, they only animate after your finger has moved past a threshold, but the toggle graphic expands when held to indicate that it is still draggable.
pottertheotter 7y ago
It seems to be pretty pervasive everywhere. I'm a longtime iOS user, but have been helping my mom with some stuff on her Android phone. Most of the things I have been helping her with involve me working in the phone settings or Google apps. I've found them very confusing to navigate, and there's little clue as to what should be clicked on. It took me a while to realize that what I was looking at wasn't a list of feature names with their description under them, but the place I should click to make changes to the features. It was all just black text on a white background. How did someone think that was a good idea?
- poglet 7y ago
  As a long time Android user, I really like that on Apple you can go to Settings app and have a list of settings for all installed applications. Settings on Android can be confusing, especially when it comes to things like the "Google" app.
  - sjy 7y ago
    This is a great idea, but so often it’s just one of multiple locations where app settings are located.
    - dmix 7y ago
      This is true, for some crazy attempts at 'minimalism' companies will hide all settings in the OS settings app settings directory, which involves sorting through a very long list of apps and other menus to find it. The amount of designers who abuse minimalism because they misunderstand Apple's industrial design and other great design companies, because they only have a surface level grasp of Human Computer Interaction and the wider UX of accomplishing tasks, really bothers me.
- mikelward 7y ago
  It's a menu. The items in a menu don't usually look like buttons on any platform. And I happen to like the gray text underneath the setting name that tells you the current value of the setting. It makes it clearer what the setting does, and saves you a tap if it's already set how to want it.
vardump 7y ago
I was so confused and panicked once I accidentally overwrote some text from an important note on an iPhone. For a few minutes I desperately searched for any menus, long presses, weird nearly hidden menus, finger gestures etc. but couldn't discover anything. Apparently there was no way to undo! After some googling I found out you have to shake the phone a few times. Seriously? I think there must be a lot of people who simply lost their notes due to a small mistake.
- ajmurmann 7y ago
  I once shook my phone because I was annoyed by autocorrect repeatedly messing up. The shaking undid more than half the text I had written. I couldn't find a way to redo.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    "I'll show him to shake me..."
    - slovette 7y ago
      I know this is HN and not Reddit. But this made me lol.
  - paggle 7y ago
    I tried it and got an “Undo Typing” confirmation. Did you?
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      You get that and then accepting it deletes a large portion of the text.
      - KukicAdnan 7y ago
        That's what Undo Typing does...
spike021 7y ago
To be fair, many people don't really know how to multitask on Windows or Mac OS (alt-tab, cmd-tab, etc.) either. It's not like the buttons have icons or anything on-screen to emphasize the key combo can be used to multitask. Not trying to defend Apple, but really just that interfaces in general haven't always been perfect and still have issues, not just one (mobile) platform.
- ecaradec 7y ago
  People can still multitask using mouse only. It’s ok to have a hidden fast interface if you have a discoverable slow interface.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Sure, and you can do the same on your iPad by going through the home screen.
    - xvector 7y ago
      But you will never learn how to use the most important features of iPad OS without knowing the split screen gestures.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    Using the mouse to switch to a given program in the take bar isn't necessarily slow. It's actually faster if you have a decent number if windows open; clicking on exactly the right one straight away is faster than repeatedly pressing Alt-Tab and seeing if the new window brought to the foreground was the right one.
    - remarkEon 7y ago
      Im sure you know this but in Windows 10 if you hold down Alt after hitting Tab the first time it’ll display which windows you already have open, and hitting just Tab again will cycle though them. You can even hold down Shift as well to cycle through the list of icons but in reverse.
robomartin 7y ago
A couple of decades ago I worked at a company that had about 200 Mac's and a similar number of PC's. One of our favorite practical jokes was to disable the mouse on Mac's. The victim quite literally could not do a thing with the computer until the mouse was re-enabled. In sharp contrast to this most Windows users could function reasonably well without the mouse. This, of course, was a long time ago. My guess is that today this would be the case for any computer user, Windows or MacOS. At the time this was simply hilarious. In terms of iOS, the overloading of buttons and gestures makes for a situation where most users don't use any of that stuff. The simplest example I have of this is using the volume switch to take a picture, nobody does not. I know about it and never do it. In fact, when I do it is because I pressed it by accident and end-up unintentionally taking a picture or more. I have another example that is unrelated to computers. We have these dimming light switches in several areas of our home. If you want to turn on the lights to the pre-established dimming level you single-click the switch. If, on the other hand, you want to go to full intensity, you double-click them. Despite having explained this, everyone uses the little tiny dimming lever on the side of the large push-button plate to go up to full intensity. And visitors, of course, have no clue because the feature isn't discoverable except for a fortuitous accident. Progress isn't without side effects I guess.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > My guess is that today this would be the case for any computer user, Windows or MacOS. Not for everyone. I could probably get by fine, if slowly, if you took away my trackpad. I can navigate with full keyboard access and shortcuts, and VoiceOver if necessary. > The simplest example I have of this is using the volume switch to take a picture, nobody does not. I do :( It give me feedback on whether I took the picture or not.
- naravara 7y ago
  > couple of decades ago I worked at a company that had about 200 Mac's and a similar number of PC's. One of our favorite practical jokes was to disable the mouse on Mac's. The victim quite literally could not do a thing with the computer until the mouse was re-enabled. This doesn’t sound right. I once installed a corrupted version of OS 10 Jaguar on my laptop that resulted in a non-functioning mouse and touchpad. I managed to reinstall the old OS using only the keyboard. Prior to the post-Snow Leopard era when they started stripping down the file system and muddying the navigation, OSX’s interface was really easily navigable.
njarboe 7y ago
Way back, a long time ago, software came with large, detailed, paper manuals. The quality varied, but a well written manual was a godsend. I guess the constantly updating that goes on with current software does not allow for such a thing these days, but it sure was nice when you could get a version of some software and use the same thing for 5 years without learning new tricks all the time.
nine_k 7y ago
Can't help but quote: «ng the first Jobsian era at Apple, I used to joke that Steve Jobs cared deeply about Apple customers from the moment they first considered purchasing an Apple computer right up until the time their check cleared the bank. Of course, in later years, the check was replace by a credit card, and check clearance was replaced by the 15-day return period, but Steve’s and Apple’s focus remained the same.» https://asktog.com/atc/the-third-user/ https://asktog.com/atc/the-third-user/
paulcole 7y ago
I mean you went from never having owned (and presumably used) an iOS device to figuring out the task in 10 minutes. Seems pretty good to me.
BurningFrog 7y ago
One basic rule of UI design is that the state of the application, and what you can do to it should be VISIBLE. The rule works great and is easy to follow. But first you have to know it :) Sadly, the company that taught me this in a previous century, now no longer follows it.
debaserab2 7y ago
I think apple stopped designing for our generation a while ago. When I see my young nieces using their iPad, I’m amazed at how easily and fluidly they navigate the device using all the extra gestures that seem unintuitive to me.

by hs86 7y ago

Hackbraten 7y ago

> Due to the auto-hiding scrollbar and no cut off icons to the right, I had no idea that scrolling horizontally was possible. This appears to be fixed on iOS 13. Actions are now arranged vertically. The app bar above the actions still scrolls horizontally but it now hints at that by cutting off icons.

wlesieutre 7y ago
Now due to the auto-hiding scrollbar and no cut-off list items to the bottom, people have no idea that scrolling vertically is possible https://tyler.io/perfectly-cropped/ https://tyler.io/perfectly-cropped/ But at least we've rotated the problem by 90 degrees :P
- Hackbraten 7y ago
  Oh I see. Didn’t occur to me because I discovered the list by coincidence. Apple indeed overdid it with all that minimalism.
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  Man, that was an infuriating read
SiVal 7y ago
Yes, and since there are so few varieties of screen size, having it cut off perfectly with no ugly hints (scrollbar, cut-off icon, or even off-centered item) is no accident and shows much higher they prioritize better-looking over more-useful. When I got my first iPhone, my first touch screen device, I noticed their beautiful little slider switches for all the settings. They didn't work very reliably, though. I would use the touch interface to drag the slider, and it sometimes worked but often failed. Well, touch screens aren't perfect, right? Until someone eventually saw me doing it and said, "You can't drag it, you have to just tap it." It turns out to be just a checkbox. A real slider switch has to be dragged and won't work if tapped, and an on-screen checkbox is the reverse, and they decided to use an image of the former as their standard implementation of the latter on a touch screen. Someone at the very top very deliberately decided that was what they wanted most.
- bangonkeyboard 7y ago
  UISwitches can be dragged by design. Prior to iOS 7, when dragged they followed the position of your finger directly, like physical switches. Post-iOS 7, they only animate after your finger has moved past a threshold, but the toggle graphic expands when held to indicate that it is still draggable.

pottertheotter 7y ago

It seems to be pretty pervasive everywhere. I'm a longtime iOS user, but have been helping my mom with some stuff on her Android phone. Most of the things I have been helping her with involve me working in the phone settings or Google apps. I've found them very confusing to navigate, and there's little clue as to what should be clicked on. It took me a while to realize that what I was looking at wasn't a list of feature names with their description under them, but the place I should click to make changes to the features. It was all just black text on a white background. How did someone think that was a good idea?

poglet 7y ago
As a long time Android user, I really like that on Apple you can go to Settings app and have a list of settings for all installed applications. Settings on Android can be confusing, especially when it comes to things like the "Google" app.
- sjy 7y ago
  This is a great idea, but so often it’s just one of multiple locations where app settings are located.
  - dmix 7y ago
    This is true, for some crazy attempts at 'minimalism' companies will hide all settings in the OS settings app settings directory, which involves sorting through a very long list of apps and other menus to find it. The amount of designers who abuse minimalism because they misunderstand Apple's industrial design and other great design companies, because they only have a surface level grasp of Human Computer Interaction and the wider UX of accomplishing tasks, really bothers me.
mikelward 7y ago
It's a menu. The items in a menu don't usually look like buttons on any platform. And I happen to like the gray text underneath the setting name that tells you the current value of the setting. It makes it clearer what the setting does, and saves you a tap if it's already set how to want it.

vardump 7y ago

I was so confused and panicked once I accidentally overwrote some text from an important note on an iPhone. For a few minutes I desperately searched for any menus, long presses, weird nearly hidden menus, finger gestures etc. but couldn't discover anything. Apparently there was no way to undo! After some googling I found out you have to shake the phone a few times. Seriously? I think there must be a lot of people who simply lost their notes due to a small mistake.

ajmurmann 7y ago
I once shook my phone because I was annoyed by autocorrect repeatedly messing up. The shaking undid more than half the text I had written. I couldn't find a way to redo.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  "I'll show him to shake me..."
  - slovette 7y ago
    I know this is HN and not Reddit. But this made me lol.
- paggle 7y ago
  I tried it and got an “Undo Typing” confirmation. Did you?
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    You get that and then accepting it deletes a large portion of the text.
    - KukicAdnan 7y ago
      That's what Undo Typing does...

spike021 7y ago

To be fair, many people don't really know how to multitask on Windows or Mac OS (alt-tab, cmd-tab, etc.) either. It's not like the buttons have icons or anything on-screen to emphasize the key combo can be used to multitask. Not trying to defend Apple, but really just that interfaces in general haven't always been perfect and still have issues, not just one (mobile) platform.

ecaradec 7y ago
People can still multitask using mouse only. It’s ok to have a hidden fast interface if you have a discoverable slow interface.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Sure, and you can do the same on your iPad by going through the home screen.
  - xvector 7y ago
    But you will never learn how to use the most important features of iPad OS without knowing the split screen gestures.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  Using the mouse to switch to a given program in the take bar isn't necessarily slow. It's actually faster if you have a decent number if windows open; clicking on exactly the right one straight away is faster than repeatedly pressing Alt-Tab and seeing if the new window brought to the foreground was the right one.
  - remarkEon 7y ago
    Im sure you know this but in Windows 10 if you hold down Alt after hitting Tab the first time it’ll display which windows you already have open, and hitting just Tab again will cycle though them. You can even hold down Shift as well to cycle through the list of icons but in reverse.

robomartin 7y ago

A couple of decades ago I worked at a company that had about 200 Mac's and a similar number of PC's. One of our favorite practical jokes was to disable the mouse on Mac's. The victim quite literally could not do a thing with the computer until the mouse was re-enabled. In sharp contrast to this most Windows users could function reasonably well without the mouse. This, of course, was a long time ago. My guess is that today this would be the case for any computer user, Windows or MacOS. At the time this was simply hilarious. In terms of iOS, the overloading of buttons and gestures makes for a situation where most users don't use any of that stuff. The simplest example I have of this is using the volume switch to take a picture, nobody does not. I know about it and never do it. In fact, when I do it is because I pressed it by accident and end-up unintentionally taking a picture or more. I have another example that is unrelated to computers. We have these dimming light switches in several areas of our home. If you want to turn on the lights to the pre-established dimming level you single-click the switch. If, on the other hand, you want to go to full intensity, you double-click them. Despite having explained this, everyone uses the little tiny dimming lever on the side of the large push-button plate to go up to full intensity. And visitors, of course, have no clue because the feature isn't discoverable except for a fortuitous accident. Progress isn't without side effects I guess.

saagarjha 7y ago
> My guess is that today this would be the case for any computer user, Windows or MacOS. Not for everyone. I could probably get by fine, if slowly, if you took away my trackpad. I can navigate with full keyboard access and shortcuts, and VoiceOver if necessary. > The simplest example I have of this is using the volume switch to take a picture, nobody does not. I do :( It give me feedback on whether I took the picture or not.
naravara 7y ago
> couple of decades ago I worked at a company that had about 200 Mac's and a similar number of PC's. One of our favorite practical jokes was to disable the mouse on Mac's. The victim quite literally could not do a thing with the computer until the mouse was re-enabled. This doesn’t sound right. I once installed a corrupted version of OS 10 Jaguar on my laptop that resulted in a non-functioning mouse and touchpad. I managed to reinstall the old OS using only the keyboard. Prior to the post-Snow Leopard era when they started stripping down the file system and muddying the navigation, OSX’s interface was really easily navigable.

njarboe 7y ago

Way back, a long time ago, software came with large, detailed, paper manuals. The quality varied, but a well written manual was a godsend. I guess the constantly updating that goes on with current software does not allow for such a thing these days, but it sure was nice when you could get a version of some software and use the same thing for 5 years without learning new tricks all the time.

nine_k 7y ago

Can't help but quote: «ng the first Jobsian era at Apple, I used to joke that Steve Jobs cared deeply about Apple customers from the moment they first considered purchasing an Apple computer right up until the time their check cleared the bank. Of course, in later years, the check was replace by a credit card, and check clearance was replaced by the 15-day return period, but Steve’s and Apple’s focus remained the same.» https://asktog.com/atc/the-third-user/ https://asktog.com/atc/the-third-user/

paulcole 7y ago

I mean you went from never having owned (and presumably used) an iOS device to figuring out the task in 10 minutes. Seems pretty good to me.

BurningFrog 7y ago

One basic rule of UI design is that the state of the application, and what you can do to it should be VISIBLE. The rule works great and is easy to follow. But first you have to know it :) Sadly, the company that taught me this in a previous century, now no longer follows it.

debaserab2 7y ago

I think apple stopped designing for our generation a while ago. When I see my young nieces using their iPad, I’m amazed at how easily and fluidly they navigate the device using all the extra gestures that seem unintuitive to me.