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Around 2 years ago now, I took the plunge and bought myself an Ergodox EZ split island keyboard. Quite franky, it is the biggest quantum leap in the ergonomic e

• jcims 7y ago
  Plus nobody else will want to use your computer. Win win!
  • octocode 7y ago
    Especially if your keys are blanks.
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • 0-_-0 7y ago
      The guy sitting next to me at work uses and Erogox with blank keys. He's otherwise normal.
      • jcims 7y ago
        Does anyone use his machine?
        • deathanatos 7y ago
          As someone with blank keys on an Ergodox EZ… it's hooked up to a MBP, so I usually offer guests that keyboard, if they need to type. (Mine is also mostly QWERTY, but admittedly that's hard to tell looking at blank caps.)
• overkalix 7y ago
  $300 for the simplest keyboard...
  • lexicality 7y ago
    hipster tax ;) (also, y'know - hand made products)
    • jrockway 7y ago
      I don't think it's handmade. It has an injection-molded case, a PCB with surface-mount components that are likely pick-and-place'd, etc. I don't think they build them in quantities comparable to Logitech... but it's basically a mass-produced product.
      • lexicality 7y ago
        According to https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/sustainability https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/sustainability they make it in an office rather than a factory. Obviously that doesn't rule out a small pick and place machine but it seems less likely.
        • jrockway 7y ago
          I believe Adafruit does some of their "manufacturing" in their New York City office. I have seen videos of the pick-and-place machines they have there. More likely is that Ergodox EZ outsources the PCBs, cases, metal parts, etc. and just do the final assembly themselves. (The keyswitches are socketed, for example, so you just pop those in, put the keycaps on, flash the latest firmware, maybe run a quick test, and ship it out.) The line can be really blurry these days. Take a tour of the Prusa factory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX3pDDi9PeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX3pDDi9PeU. Sure, they ship you 3D printed parts... but they have hundreds of 3D printers running 24/7 to meet demand. Is that handmade? Is that mass produced?
    • atoav 7y ago
      Economies of scale at work
• hwwc 7y ago
  Ergodox EZ was also a game-changer for me. It's been key in solving some posture problems, and I love having a programmable keyboard.
• cyphar 7y ago
  I'll be honest, I bought an Ergodox EZ a year or so ago and have consistently struggled to get comfortable using it. I have set up quite a few useful macros for programs I use daily like tmux as well as making it more vim-friendly (after many interations) and yet I still find it a serious chore to get past the fact that the keys feel un-naturally placed. Eventually I just give up and switch back to my laptop keyboard (I'm usually trying to write something and it feels like the keyboard is blocking my natural stream of typing) and so the cycle continues. I guess my question is -- did everyone else switching to the Ergodox EZ have this problem? And should I just push myself to suffer through it more? Or is it the case that I should revisit my layout (again) to figure out if there's a way to further optimise it so it feels less foreign? One of the really frustrating things is that there isn't a natural place to put fairly common programming key combinations such as "()", "{}", "=+", or "-_" -- does everyone else just use layer toggles for that? EDIT: Ah, I see your layout makes fairly significant use layer toggles. And you also had trouble with "on-boarding" for the first few weeks -- I guess I just need to force myself to use it then. I might take yours and modify it to add some of the tmux and i3 macros I have defined.
  • pottertheotter 7y ago
    Wow, I had never heard of that keyboard. It looks like it would be an absolute nightmare to set up and learn to use.
    • cyphar 7y ago
      To be fair, most ergonomic keyboards have strange layouts. Such is the price for avoiding RSI.
      • Moru 7y ago
        The microsoft natural 4000 keyboard is pretty standard except split in the middle. It's good enough for me, no need to relearn but much better to use. I still get wrist problems but it takes longer.
    • samatman 7y ago
• brandonmenc 7y ago
  > it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain and the machine Why? You'll never even double the "throughput" of that "channel", let alone improve it by an order of magnitude. And I say this as someone who wasted lots of time and money attempting exactly that before I realized that typing is not what I spend most of my time doing while programming.
  • ganonm 7y ago
    It's not just about improving the bandwidth (although that is nice), the one thing I wouldn't trade that the Ergodox gives me is a very low error rate in typing. This is hard to achieve with a traditional keyboard, especially when you starting throwing special characters into the mix that require two-handed contortions. I've heard the refrain "you don't spend most of your time typing when programming" so many times it's almost become a trope. I personally spend enough time typing during a typical day (working or otherwise) that I really appreciate the benefits of a highly optimised keyboard setup, although of course YMMV. I don't think the argument holds water.
    • honkycat 7y ago
      Agreed. That statement is one of those catty oft repeated things we are supposed to take as gospel for some reason. Personally: I spend ALL DAY typing. Configurations, code, documentation, tutorials, arguments for doing things one way or another, user stories for work, chatting with my coworkers, running cli commands. I see a huge difference in my productivity between myself and my peers partly due to my faster text input and editing skills.
    • terranoct 7y ago
      It's not the bandwidth per se, so much it's the continuous attention cost spent on keeping that bandwidth going. Better tactile feedback and more reliable input means I don't have to constantly multitask half a task worth of attention onto making sure the input I think I'm doing went off as intended, which makes it easier to concentrate on the main task, which reduces the build up of fatigue, which reduces the rate at which the cost of mental effort increases throughout the day. Which is not to mention things like the chance of getting hand cramps from the additional tension there caused by interacting with a less reliable keyboard, and by the tendency to use excess input force in attempt to get strokes through more consistently.
• jdc0589 7y ago
  I'm on year 5 or 6 with a self built ErgoDox. it's really tough to imagine going back to anything else full time. I ended up building another to keep at home. Not sure how much it's changed, but I was able to build both of mine <= $200 each.
  • bluehatbrit 7y ago
    Do you have any links to the boards or instructions you used for this? If I'm going to try building a keyboard (which I want to do) it may as well be more ergonomic than my curent one.
  • StavrosK 7y ago
    How do you build one? I'm handy with a soldering iron (and even designing my own PCBs), but I'd still want to not spend more time on it than I have to (e.g. if there is firmware I can just use).
    • rhinoceraptor 7y ago
      The QMK firmware is pretty simple to get up and running. The wiring is pretty simple too, you have your rows and columns, and then connect each to an input on the microcontroller, and then configure your row/column/key layout in QMK.
      • StavrosK 7y ago
        That sounds pretty simple, thanks!
        • jdc0589 7y ago
          PCBs used to only be $20 or $30 with the tiny surface mount stuff soldered on already. totally worth it if you an get them.
          • StavrosK 7y ago
            It's pretty perplexing, I'm seeing just the PCB go for $50, when you can get that PCB fabbed for $10 from the design. It appears like everyone just marks stuff up at every step, an ergodox-ez costs $300 but around $100 if you assemble it yourself. I guess it's a niche item.
• 1e-9 7y ago
  Has your conventional keyboard typing suffered significantly? Seems like that might be a problem for laptop use when traveling without the special keyboard.
  • ganonm 7y ago
    This is a very good question and it did in fact occur to me when I was designing the keyboard layout. Partly due to this concern I stuck with a QWERTY layout for alphabetic characters, so I'd at least retain some familiarity with traditional keyboards. Besides that, I'm typing on my laptop right now and often plug in a traditional keyboard if I'm gaming, so I haven't found lack of familiarity with a traditional keyboard a problem.
  • samatman 7y ago
    I do have some lingering switching issues, notably I've put -/_ and +/= on the left side since there isn't room on the right, and `/~ are below left instead of above left. It's annoying for the first hour, then the muscle memory kicks in. It seems to be slowly but surely sinking in, I expect at some point my fingers will just learn which is which.
  • simias 7y ago
    I use an ergodox as well and I still manage to use my regular keyboard just fine but it feels bad. After drinking the ergonomic kool-aid you notice how awkward normal keyboards can sometimes be. That being said I've made a script that uses xmodmap and xcape to emulate some of the functionality of my ergodox layout. Obviously I can't physically modify the keyboard but I can remap control to caps lock, use xcape to make it send escape when used on its own (and use "space cadet shifts" to input parentheses), I also like to shuffle some keys to make them easier to reach (for instance I don't use Alt a lot but I use Super to control my WM, so I use xmodmap to swap them on regular keyboards).
• fortran77 7y ago
  I agree. My life has turned around completely because of three things: 1. Ergodox EZ Split Island Keyboard 2. Dvorak keyboard layout 3. Taking a Rust programming job Now I look forward to Mondays.
  • K0SM0S 7y ago
    Writing Rust in Dvorak on an EZ Ergo for a living is next-level techno-paradise to many a nerd. Kudos for that! Also, if by any chance you feel like sharing details about how, and in which order you made these transitions; things you wish you knew before trying... please don't hesitate :)
    • anchpop 7y ago
      I used Colemak (which is similar to Dvorak) and I would really recommend learning it if you don't already touch type. It does involve a little bit of pain at first and you'll feel really tempted to go back but in a week I was already fast enough to do useful work. I'm not a speed demon by any means, I type at the same speed I did before (60 wpm) except now I don't need to look at the keyboard which is very convenient in ways I didn't realize would be possible before. For example now it's much easier for me to take notes in a meeting or class because I can keep my eyes on the subject. The worst part was having to relearn keyboard shortcuts, so I don't know if I'd recommend it to an emacs or vim user.
      • K0SM0S 7y ago
        Thanks a lot! I've searched a bit based on what you said and sort of found a point of entry into Colemak. It's very enticing. I'm not a touch typist yet (use all fingers but quite inconsistently I suppose, yet 'fast enough' for me and without looking). Would it be sensible to make such a 'dramatic' layout change at the same time as the switch to a split ortholinear such as the EZ? It seems more straightforward to do it all at once, but also taking quite the tall order at once — ortho + colemak + strict touch typing.
        • 7y ago
• Ycros 7y ago
  I used to use an Ergodox Infinity that I built from a kit. Since then I've moved to the Model 01 from https://keyboard.io https://keyboard.io Why? I find the thumb clusters way better, I feel like they're just a bit too far away on the ergodox keyboards. That, and the shape of the keys and the curve of the stagger are better IMO. The downside is you can't use any keycaps because they're unique to this keyboard.
• duxup 7y ago
  I keep meaning to find a local keyboard Meetup and hope to try the ergodox. The downside is I work 50 / 50 home and work so if I liked it I would probably need a traveling case or something.
  • ganonm 7y ago
    I impulse purchased the carrying case they released recently... Tbh not very happy with it. The molded foam inside the case only fits the keyboard but not the silicone wrist rests, which imo are vital. The space efficiency of the case is pretty poor too so it doesn't easily fit in a suitcase or weekend bag. I mostly end up just piling the keyboard into a bag loose.
    • duxup 7y ago
      Yeah I might be better off creating my own.
  • sjy 7y ago
    I’m using an Atreus at the moment and while I enjoyed carrying it around when I was learning the layout, once the novelty wore off it got really old having to pack up the keyboard every day. I’ve switched back to a spare regular keyboard at work as a result. If you want to go all in, be prepared to invest in two keyboards!
    • duxup 7y ago
      Noted, thank you.
• sleepybrett 7y ago
  I tried an ergodox after years with a kinesis advantage, end of the day it was just worse. Finally put a custom controller in my advantages flashed them with qmk and custom keymaps and sold off the ergodox.
• nine_k 7y ago
  Ergodox looks damn enticing. But I'm not planning to switch because it will make me unlearn all the traditional keyboards for me. In particular, I will have trouble touch-typing on a laptop keyboard after that, and there are zero options for an Ergodox-like layout on a commercially available laptop. So, no way to work on a train or a plane. I wish some laptop maker were so brave as to offer a split and angled keyboard as an option on a laptop with decent internals, though.
  • daurnimator 7y ago
    As an ergodox user I'm still fine with normal keyboards. The key thing seems to be to stick with qwerty on your ergodox.
  • rhinoceraptor 7y ago
    I also use an (QWERTY) ergodox, and I'm fine jumping back and forth between normal keyboards and the ergodox. I'd say budget 2-3 weeks to get comfortable on the ergodox, and then another 2-3 weeks before you're comfortable jumping between it and normal keyboards again.
• jrockway 7y ago
  I also have an Ergodox EZ. It is in fact revolutionary. Just being able to move keys around was so helpful for me. I have ({}) on jkl;, for example (shifted with a key below V...). Symbols are much more comfortable to type, and frequent operations like backspace and enter are on my pointer fingers or thumbs, so I'm not straining my pinky all day. The Ergodox is not perfect, though. I think it has too many thumb keys (blindly copying Kinesis); they take up space but you can't really take advantage of them. Going from a staggered layout to ortholinear was quite the struggle for me. I endured and "got it", but I know a lot of people aren't going to have the patience. Ultimately I like this article because it shows that hand-wired keyboards are quite practical. The author went overboard making it look nice, but you can build yourself a very nice keyboard with an Arduino, some switches, diodes, and wire, and a 3D printer. It won't look as nice, but you can get every single detail perfect.
• roel_v 7y ago
  If only there was an Ergodox keycap set with all printed keys. I used an Ergodox EZ from when it was delivered after the crowdfunding campaign, right until the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard delivered on its campaign, and I stuck with the UHK mostly because all keys are labeled. I post this every time there is a thread about the Ergodox in the hope there will be keycap sets available some day...
  • Symbiote 7y ago
    How about this? Or just search "Ergodox" on Ali Express. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957791164.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32957791164.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961243162.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961243162.html The keys are not profiled (they are all the same shape, rather than having different heights for each row), so except for the F and J (which have homing dips) they are interchangeable. Alternatively, there are the geeky custom sets, like https://candykeys.com/group-buys/kat-milkshake https://candykeys.com/group-buys/kat-milkshake , which sometimes support Ergo/Orth layouts. They can be less flexible (if they keycaps are profiled), and they will be considerably more expensive.
    • roel_v 7y ago
      I actually put this in my Ali Express basket last week, but I'm still on the fence about actually ordering it or not. My experiences with Ali Express key caps are hit and miss. Then again I probably shouldn't be posting complaints about key cap sets online and then not try every option out there.