15 ms·

What are your options for cognitive enhancement?

122 points by Ygg2 7y ago

Yuval_Halevi 7y ago
I do think that trying a psychedelic drugs might be a positive thing for many people. The problem is that not all people can are suitable for it, not everyone is ready to experience certain feelings. I would love to hear entrepreneurs who find it useful (I talk mainly about micros dosing now) Related articles I read not long ago, about this subject: - https://psmag.com/education/microdosing-may-increase-creativity https://psmag.com/education/microdosing-may-increase-creativ... - https://qz.com/1449166/study-finds-magic-mushroom-microdosing-boosts-creativity/ https://qz.com/1449166/study-finds-magic-mushroom-microdosin...
- bil7 7y ago
  it's interesting that you see a value in psychedelics but have not personally tried it. May I ask why?
  - mankyd 7y ago
    I might give a similar response: I see that they might be valuable for some people but I have not tried them. The reasons are numerous: - Negative outcomes. They _might_ be valuable, but they might be incredibly harmful, especially if taken at the wrong doses. - Legality. I have a family to take care of. I am not going to put them at risk for this. - Availability. Where does one obtain illegal drugs safely. - How much upside? Caffeine also can be helpful. Is this more or less helpful than something relatively harmless?
- codingslave 7y ago
  Almost everyone that I meet who has done considerable, or even moderate, amounts of psychedelics has clear and obvious personality changes. Personality is a poor word to use, but something like their disposition, "hippy" attitude is extremely common. So much so that I think these drugs cause long term physical damage to peoples cognitive faculties. This is completely anecdotal, but I have seen it so many times in my life that I wouldn't touch a psychedelic with a ten foot pole. And yes, I have tripped on acid, but only once, and do believe that while in some ways it was earth shattering, in many ways I would take it back if I could. The most productive and successful people I meet almost always have been mostly sober their whole life, exhibiting balance and clear headedness. If psychedelics are doing any good, it is because those who are taking them are already so broken, any kind of change could be construed as positive.
  - leadingthenet 7y ago
    Those are big claims you're making, and I doubt you could find much actual science to back up them up. Remember, psychedelics are not a new phenomenon in human society...
    - codingslave 7y ago
      Growing up I was friends with a large group of people deep into psychedelics, I watched them transform from who they were before the drugs to who they were after. These are people took the drugs seriously, the dosages, their "set and setting". Society tells us that anecdotal evidence is false, but thats brainwashing. I can see with my own two my eyes what drugs do. Most likely certain areas of people brains are dampened or flattened by these drugs, and so if youre and anxious person, maybe you experience "relief", but that comes at a cost.
      - RealObama 7y ago
        Society doesn't tells us that anecdotal evidence is false, it tells us that it is generally not representative of the whole. What may have been true for your friends does not make it true for all. That doesn't deny your experience, just means you shouldn't make broad generalizations without data to support it.
      - leadingthenet 7y ago
        What cost?! If all you have is anecdata, then here's mine: Psychedelics have been the catalyst to some of the most profoundly positive experiences in my life, and any changes that I've experienced afterwards were wholly positive. Same with my group of friends who did the same. There. You won't take my anecdotes seriously, just as I won't take your anecdotes seriously, so I hope you see now why this kind of hyperbole is worth nothing if not backed up by peer-reviewed science. Are you seriously suggesting I'm brainwashed because I asked for sources? Jesus man, you're very far gone.
        codingslave 7y ago
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  They're really helpful for healing psychological trauma, but not necessary. If you plan to use them for economic domination, you're gonna embarass yourself pretty hard and maybe even die. It's just not what they're for.
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    I'm surprised Elon Musk hasn't come up here yet. He's a pretty massive counterpoint to these ideals. I have no skin in this game, but I find it curious.
    - jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
      What about Elon Musk? We don't talk so I don't know much about him.
      - 52-6F-62 7y ago
        He's been known for his penchant to take certain substances and hang out at Burning Man—and it certainly hasn't hampered his coffers or brainpower. Not to say it contributed anything, either.
        jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
        Maybe if Elon Musk had published a diary detailing his experiences we could talk about how psychadelics have affected him, however in the absence of such a record, I don't think anyone else other than his close friends or family could really light up the dark of that relationship. Wait. Wikipedia says Elon Musk skipped out on his mandatory South African military service. Is he still allowed back in South Africa? Does he still have their citizenship?
        52-6F-62 7y ago
        I wasn't saying anything beyond his usage hasn't inhibited him economically. He wasn't born with an electric car company, a rocket company, and a tunnel-boring company so he has amassed those things at the very least in spite of his usage.
- GuB-42 7y ago
  > The problem is that not all people can are suitable for it. It is the big problem with psychedelics. Too random. And it is not just from one person to another. The same person can have very different experiences depending on the situation. "Set and setting" as experienced users call it, but even with that knowledge, bad trips happen. And for the studies you linked, none of them seem to be controlled (no placebo group), and from my limited experience, the placebo effect is very real. I've seen people feel high on blotters with nothing on it, at least before they realize they have been scammed. Not saying that psychedelics can't do yourself some good. But I tend to be skeptical of studies suggesting a reliably positive effect.
colorincorrect 7y ago
nitpicking here, but Cogito Ergo Sum (“I think, therefore I am”) has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. in modern vernacular you might translate it as "i percieve/witness therefore i exist"
- HNLurker2 7y ago
  You're right this sounds like a bad essay.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  You might take it that way, but are you sure that's correct. The derivation/etymology of cogito appears to imply active thought, as does penser (I've always assumed Descartes conceived it in French, and translated, but I confess I don't know which natural language - if any - his mind was using). As opposed to merely passively regarding the World. The epigram's context is "application of reason", at least.
  - melon_madness 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure when Decartes said that, he meant that that's the only thing we know for sure to be true, since everything else could be a hallucination. He wasn't making an argument for cognitive enhancement... was he?
qrybam 7y ago
Cutting out processed carbs, staying active, and fasting has had the greatest impact on my cognition. The best part is it’s sustainable! I can keep going day after day. Caffeine and nicotine give minor boosts but quickly become liabilities rather than enhancers.
- azmodeus 7y ago
  Do you follow intermittent fasting or do you fast for longer times? I find if I fast for a longer period my focus decreases.
  - gallexme 7y ago
    Is there some secret of intermittent fasting I haven't understand yet? According to the guidelines I've been doing that naturally for the last 10 years probably, eat once at 2pm and once at 6pm that's it every day But I don't feel better than the days I eat whenever I want and how much I want, apart of feeling less hungry in the morning
    - fraktl 7y ago
      Here's something from my experience, it's not based on any research or someone's book, it's literally entirely subjective so who knows if it's even helpful: for me, intermittent fasting had effect when it was entirely irregular. If my body didn't get a chance to notice the pattern, that's what made it behave different. Same goes for exercise, if I do regularly one type of exercise - body quickly gets used to it and it's harder to achieve gains by doing the same movement. What I do is irregular fasting. Sometimes I won't eat for 30 hours. Sometimes I'll eat 6x a day. Sometimes it'll be eating at 11:00 and next meal is 12 hours after. These are not guidelines, just examples of irregular intervals. I noticed results, it could have been placebo, who knows, I have no means to measure except subjective feeling. If you're capable of enduring hunger, you could try it. It might be dangerous so don't listen to random advice from a nobody online :) anyone reading this and trying what I wrote out: it's not my fault if something happens to you, I'm not a medical doctor.
    - qrybam 7y ago
vulcanodon 7y ago
the arguments against cognitive enhancement being easy: - https://www.gwern.net/Drug-heuristics https://www.gwern.net/Drug-heuristics
drakonka 7y ago
I haven't tried microdosing but am all for nootropics to help increase mental acuity and focus. At the same time I so agree with the author's statement that 'The perspective I’m advancing calls for first exhausting “analog” means to achieve mind-expansion before pursuing either pills or processors or both in combination.' - if your diet is crap, your exercise is nonexistent, you get no sleep, no nootropic concoction is going to make up for that. As for employer-mandated enhancers - what follows is a very initial stream of thoughts at the idea, not something well thought-through at all. This article made me consider this for the first time. I can see the risk. At the same time there are so many other methods of mental improvement employers could be mandating today. Sure, none may be a "magic pill", but there are things proven to improve or deteriorate our performance at work. Sleep being one of them. Yet not once has an employer attempted to track and mandate a certain number of sleep hours to me. Not once have I had an employer force me to take up exercise. Having said that my employer does subsidize gym memberships so we are encouraged to stay active, so maybe this is a counter-example; maybe if a magical brain pill existed the way an employer would get you on it is by simply sponsoring it for their employees.
- balfirevic 7y ago
  > if your diet is crap, your exercise is nonexistent, you get no sleep, no nootropic concoction is going to make up for that. Are you saying this as a statement of fact or more like an advice? Because, as a statement of fact, it is very probably false. Anti-ADHD medication will make up (and then some) for crappy diet, no exercise and bad sleep (this one probably only to a certain extent).
  - lm28469 7y ago
    Coke will make up for not sleeping, not sure how you'll do in 10 years though. There is absolutely no way to make up for lack of sleep and shitty diet in the long run.
    - FeepingCreature 7y ago
      I'm not sure if we know enough about diet and sleep to assert this with confidence.
jshaqaw 7y ago
I appreciate the author raising the risks of cognitive enhancement in terms of a future where it is economically nonviable to opt-out. This is an interesting framing which I hadn't thought of before.
- npo9 7y ago
  This is a common framing borrowed by steroid use in athletics.
- boringg 7y ago
  Agree with this. I think that is the part I find most interesting about the article. The connection to anti-vaccination is a bit tenuous.
- mistermann 7y ago
  I think one could argue that similar parallels could be drawn to global trade, with respect to variance in work ethic/productivity across different cultures (as a substitute for variance due to cognitive enhancement).
mdszy 7y ago
So the premise of the article is to literally take mind-altering drugs in order to become more valuable to your employer. This is so fucked up.
- icandoit 7y ago
  No, from the article: "In my view, the best methods to heighten creativity and increase your “out of the box” thinking are traditional, analog, and noninvasive. These methods can be found in John Dewey’s classic “How to Think” primer, first published in 1910 or even earlier from Rene’ Descartes’s Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting One’s Reason and Seeking Truth in the Science." The opening few paragraphs are just setting the stage. Showing you what crazy people get up to. A juicy dystopic vision to capture reader attention.
- beaconstudios 7y ago
  you could also do it to become more valuable to yourself, as an entrepreneur.
  - mdszy 7y ago
    So you could call that "so you can become more valuable to the capitalist machine." Still fucked up that the concept is that you have to do drugs in order to, apparently, avoid being out-competed by your drug-addled competition and suddenly being unable to provide for yourself/your family.
    - beaconstudios 7y ago
      you can be an entrepreneur to follow a passion as well as for pure capitalist greed. For example, sometimes I can't focus very well so I take modafinil. It's a short-stop fix for something I'm working to improve long-term. I do this in order to work on something I find intrinsically rewarding. Though I feel like you're not really complaining about cognitive enhancement, but more about capitalism. In which case, sure, capitalism is pretty flawed.
      - 7y ago
leto_ii 7y ago
> I figure that most engineers will reject collectivism and be comfortable with a libertarian framing. I realize this is a bit besides the point, but why are the two often presented as mutually exclusive? Why can't something be done both in a collective and a libertarian fashion?
- wholepointofcc 7y ago
  Because the core of libertarianism is individuality in opposition to collectivism.
  - armenarmen 7y ago
    Against forced collectivism
- shantly 7y ago
  Collectivism plus high degrees of personal liberty tends to run into unsustainable game-theoretical coordination problems in a hurry.
nkkollaw 7y ago
Get enough sleep (most important I guess), don't do drunks nor drink alcohol. I'm only good at _giving_ advice, but I don't think there's any secret besides those things..?
- pkroll 7y ago
  Physical exercise, is the other one with a definite effect on cognition. Not really SECRET though.
dangus 7y ago
Whether it be drugs, cybernetic enhancements, mental discipline and training, and changes in diet, I’d eschew all of them (maybe except for diet improvement) and instead advocate for this: engineers should stop taking work so seriously. I don’t really care if I’m working to 100% of my potential. My employer won’t pay me more for that optimization anyway. I think there’s something of a toxic attitude in Silicon Valley that we should all be honing ourselves into this amazing constantly-tinkering engineer who runs a really cool blog. There’s also a general toxic mentality in America that we can all work our way to becoming billionaires - in reality, none of us can optimize our way into having family connections to the elites in our society. In reality, that engineer doing all that cool stuff in the Bay Area in their shared studio apartment probably doesn’t have a better retirement plan than the community college sysadmin with a paid-off single family home in upstate New York. For me, I just work to put food on the table. I want to be average enough to he employable. Anything beyond that isn’t worth the diminishing return on investment, or a reduction in family time. I can’t optimize my way to being genetically gifted enough to match the output of the 10x engineers who do get promoted, and I certainly can’t match their 24/7 dedication to work. Employers generally promote people for making the right person happy at the right time, not for producing the most technically competent work.
- cobbzilla 7y ago
  > I don’t really care if I’m working to 100% of my potential. My employer won’t pay me more for that optimization anyway. Those who are self-employed may feel differently. If you value a certain kind of balance in life, I agree with everything you said. There are many of us who have an internal drive to do “impossible” things; it’s a valuable and inseparable part of our identity. It’s OK that not everyone has this, the world would probably be worse if everyone did. And it should never feel like an externally-imposed expectation, that would definitely be unhealthy.
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  I know, right? I'm constantly telling everyone they need to slow down. So many folks seem to forget that there's no point in climbing the ladder quickly, because ultimately, it doesn't actually go anywhere. It's just a ladder.
tw1010 7y ago
I've never heard someone persuasively and eloquently express to me, in a non-dopey way, just how (small amounts of) acid can act as cognitive enchantment. Anyone care to take a stab at it? For instance, is the effect only temporary, in the sense that it unlocks some region of not normally traversed mental state space? (E.g. allowing you to write paragraphs you wouldn't otherwise be able to.) Or is the effect more permanent, in the sense of teaching you something, providing you with a new muscle which can be used later even in a sober state of mind (teaching you to ride a type of brain bike, which then can't be unlearned), or by showing you connections between disparate ideas you hadn't previously had the ability to see next to each other?
- bigzyg33k 7y ago
  As somebody who has microdosed, I'd attribute most "enhancement" to perceived improvement in mood, and an improvement in my ability to look at problems from "outside" the box. I'm currently leetcoding in preparation for tech interviews, and find it much easier to work out the "trick" to solve problems while microdosing LSD
  - jl2718 7y ago
    This is a perfect example of nootropic dystopia: paying for a small advantage in a mostly meaningless unproductive task with possibly maladaptive permanent changes to the brain. Of course this is not new. Ritalin has been used as a study drug for meaningless academic tests for decades. But it really goes beyond drugs. The experiences created by media and games today, even social app feedback loops, are far more powerful than any real-world experience. Go to bed every night with a show or a game or a social app, and you will lose your edge very quickly. (I’m currently embroiled in a muted partner dispute of several years over this.) And yet I have considered exactly the same, because the last few years has filled my head with so much crap that I never wanted to think about; perhaps microdosing would allow a more intentional reset, and leetcode may be the closest thing normal folks have to productive mental engagement. Certainly not most jobs, even in tech, which is sad.
    - GaryNumanVevo 7y ago
duelingjello 7y ago
It would be interesting to identify the differences in genomes, epigenomes and microbiomes between geniuses, average and impaired/neuro-atypical persons. Maybe then, some un/ethical gene editing/silencing would be possible.
jpadkins 7y ago
disappointed based on the headline. I thought I was going to get a list of nootropics and dosages that have been proven to be effective.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  You will probably be interested in https://www.gwern.net/Nootropics https://www.gwern.net/Nootropics
rymohr 7y ago
Look into transcendental meditation, starting with this short overview by David Lynch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2UHLMVr4vg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2UHLMVr4vg
mensetmanusman 7y ago
Mine: 1500 calorie dinner with lots of fresh salad, fruits, meat, veggies, cheese at ~5:30 pm. Get at least 7 hours of sleep. One cup of coffee at 6:00 AM, black, no dairy/sugar, no breakfast (continue fast). At 12 pm, have 1-2 apples to break fast and to fend off hunger. Eat the entire apple/core for probiotic properties. Tip: try to stay on my feet most of the day, standing desk, moving to other places, etc. — It has taken a decade to find this diet for my cognitive enhancement. I do not get tired post noon now until after 4 pm. Extremely alert around 9 to 11 AM. A daily 18 hour fast seems to be working really well for some reason. Only one cup of coffee per day. Sleep is critical and should be repetitive. I know I am in a good place when I am consistently waking up 3-5 minutes prior to 5:30 AM alarm.
- swah 7y ago
  So you eat around 6pm and go to bed 5 hours later? I sleep at the same time but often eat around 20 or 21...
  - mensetmanusman 7y ago
    Yes, If I snack before bed or eat around 20/21, I can feel more hunger pains the following morning around 10, which is a negative on the cognitive performance :)
- gherkinnn 7y ago
  Interesting. Such a big dinner ruins my sleep, but a massive breakfast and a light lunch does it for me.
  - heymijo 7y ago
    Your eating pattern matches up with what Dr. Satchin Panda of the Salk Institute is finding regarding circadian rhythms, which every cell in our body has. Evidence points to the benefits of eating only within an 8-12 hour window each day. With newer evidence suggesting having that eating window open from breakfast through lunch being the best for health/longevity/etc. Dr. Rhonda Patrick gets into this with Dr. Panda in a few episodes. https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-panda https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-panda https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-round-2 https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-round-2
fortran77 7y ago
Learn Rust. You'll think clearer, make fewer errors, and be more productive. You'll find yourself thinking about programming problems in new, better, ways. Rust requires you to program well. At the same time, it doesn’t expect you to know everything before starting. When something is not going to work in a program, the compiler will not only tell you what is wrong but suggest fixes to the code.
trandana 7y ago
Frequent exercise and healthy eating.

122 points by Ygg2 7y ago

I do think that trying a psychedelic drugs might be a positive thing for many people. The problem is that not all people can are suitable for it, not everyone is ready to experience certain feelings. I would love to hear entrepreneurs who find it useful (I talk mainly about micros dosing now) Related articles I read not long ago, about this subject: - https://psmag.com/education/microdosing-may-increase-creativity https://psmag.com/education/microdosing-may-increase-creativ... - https://qz.com/1449166/study-finds-magic-mushroom-microdosing-boosts-creativity/ https://qz.com/1449166/study-finds-magic-mushroom-microdosin...

bil7 7y ago
it's interesting that you see a value in psychedelics but have not personally tried it. May I ask why?
- mankyd 7y ago
  I might give a similar response: I see that they might be valuable for some people but I have not tried them. The reasons are numerous: - Negative outcomes. They _might_ be valuable, but they might be incredibly harmful, especially if taken at the wrong doses. - Legality. I have a family to take care of. I am not going to put them at risk for this. - Availability. Where does one obtain illegal drugs safely. - How much upside? Caffeine also can be helpful. Is this more or less helpful than something relatively harmless?
codingslave 7y ago
Almost everyone that I meet who has done considerable, or even moderate, amounts of psychedelics has clear and obvious personality changes. Personality is a poor word to use, but something like their disposition, "hippy" attitude is extremely common. So much so that I think these drugs cause long term physical damage to peoples cognitive faculties. This is completely anecdotal, but I have seen it so many times in my life that I wouldn't touch a psychedelic with a ten foot pole. And yes, I have tripped on acid, but only once, and do believe that while in some ways it was earth shattering, in many ways I would take it back if I could. The most productive and successful people I meet almost always have been mostly sober their whole life, exhibiting balance and clear headedness. If psychedelics are doing any good, it is because those who are taking them are already so broken, any kind of change could be construed as positive.
- leadingthenet 7y ago
  Those are big claims you're making, and I doubt you could find much actual science to back up them up. Remember, psychedelics are not a new phenomenon in human society...
  - codingslave 7y ago
    Growing up I was friends with a large group of people deep into psychedelics, I watched them transform from who they were before the drugs to who they were after. These are people took the drugs seriously, the dosages, their "set and setting". Society tells us that anecdotal evidence is false, but thats brainwashing. I can see with my own two my eyes what drugs do. Most likely certain areas of people brains are dampened or flattened by these drugs, and so if youre and anxious person, maybe you experience "relief", but that comes at a cost.
    - RealObama 7y ago
      Society doesn't tells us that anecdotal evidence is false, it tells us that it is generally not representative of the whole. What may have been true for your friends does not make it true for all. That doesn't deny your experience, just means you shouldn't make broad generalizations without data to support it.
    - leadingthenet 7y ago
      What cost?! If all you have is anecdata, then here's mine: Psychedelics have been the catalyst to some of the most profoundly positive experiences in my life, and any changes that I've experienced afterwards were wholly positive. Same with my group of friends who did the same. There. You won't take my anecdotes seriously, just as I won't take your anecdotes seriously, so I hope you see now why this kind of hyperbole is worth nothing if not backed up by peer-reviewed science. Are you seriously suggesting I'm brainwashed because I asked for sources? Jesus man, you're very far gone.
      - codingslave 7y ago
jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
They're really helpful for healing psychological trauma, but not necessary. If you plan to use them for economic domination, you're gonna embarass yourself pretty hard and maybe even die. It's just not what they're for.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  I'm surprised Elon Musk hasn't come up here yet. He's a pretty massive counterpoint to these ideals. I have no skin in this game, but I find it curious.
  - jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
    What about Elon Musk? We don't talk so I don't know much about him.
    - 52-6F-62 7y ago
      He's been known for his penchant to take certain substances and hang out at Burning Man—and it certainly hasn't hampered his coffers or brainpower. Not to say it contributed anything, either.
      - jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
        Maybe if Elon Musk had published a diary detailing his experiences we could talk about how psychadelics have affected him, however in the absence of such a record, I don't think anyone else other than his close friends or family could really light up the dark of that relationship. Wait. Wikipedia says Elon Musk skipped out on his mandatory South African military service. Is he still allowed back in South Africa? Does he still have their citizenship?
        52-6F-62 7y ago
        I wasn't saying anything beyond his usage hasn't inhibited him economically. He wasn't born with an electric car company, a rocket company, and a tunnel-boring company so he has amassed those things at the very least in spite of his usage.
GuB-42 7y ago
> The problem is that not all people can are suitable for it. It is the big problem with psychedelics. Too random. And it is not just from one person to another. The same person can have very different experiences depending on the situation. "Set and setting" as experienced users call it, but even with that knowledge, bad trips happen. And for the studies you linked, none of them seem to be controlled (no placebo group), and from my limited experience, the placebo effect is very real. I've seen people feel high on blotters with nothing on it, at least before they realize they have been scammed. Not saying that psychedelics can't do yourself some good. But I tend to be skeptical of studies suggesting a reliably positive effect.

colorincorrect 7y ago

nitpicking here, but Cogito Ergo Sum (“I think, therefore I am”) has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. in modern vernacular you might translate it as "i percieve/witness therefore i exist"

HNLurker2 7y ago
You're right this sounds like a bad essay.
pbhjpbhj 7y ago
You might take it that way, but are you sure that's correct. The derivation/etymology of cogito appears to imply active thought, as does penser (I've always assumed Descartes conceived it in French, and translated, but I confess I don't know which natural language - if any - his mind was using). As opposed to merely passively regarding the World. The epigram's context is "application of reason", at least.
- melon_madness 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure when Decartes said that, he meant that that's the only thing we know for sure to be true, since everything else could be a hallucination. He wasn't making an argument for cognitive enhancement... was he?

qrybam 7y ago

Cutting out processed carbs, staying active, and fasting has had the greatest impact on my cognition. The best part is it’s sustainable! I can keep going day after day. Caffeine and nicotine give minor boosts but quickly become liabilities rather than enhancers.

azmodeus 7y ago
Do you follow intermittent fasting or do you fast for longer times? I find if I fast for a longer period my focus decreases.
- gallexme 7y ago
  Is there some secret of intermittent fasting I haven't understand yet? According to the guidelines I've been doing that naturally for the last 10 years probably, eat once at 2pm and once at 6pm that's it every day But I don't feel better than the days I eat whenever I want and how much I want, apart of feeling less hungry in the morning
  - fraktl 7y ago
    Here's something from my experience, it's not based on any research or someone's book, it's literally entirely subjective so who knows if it's even helpful: for me, intermittent fasting had effect when it was entirely irregular. If my body didn't get a chance to notice the pattern, that's what made it behave different. Same goes for exercise, if I do regularly one type of exercise - body quickly gets used to it and it's harder to achieve gains by doing the same movement. What I do is irregular fasting. Sometimes I won't eat for 30 hours. Sometimes I'll eat 6x a day. Sometimes it'll be eating at 11:00 and next meal is 12 hours after. These are not guidelines, just examples of irregular intervals. I noticed results, it could have been placebo, who knows, I have no means to measure except subjective feeling. If you're capable of enduring hunger, you could try it. It might be dangerous so don't listen to random advice from a nobody online :) anyone reading this and trying what I wrote out: it's not my fault if something happens to you, I'm not a medical doctor.
  - qrybam 7y ago

vulcanodon 7y ago

the arguments against cognitive enhancement being easy: - https://www.gwern.net/Drug-heuristics https://www.gwern.net/Drug-heuristics

drakonka 7y ago

I haven't tried microdosing but am all for nootropics to help increase mental acuity and focus. At the same time I so agree with the author's statement that 'The perspective I’m advancing calls for first exhausting “analog” means to achieve mind-expansion before pursuing either pills or processors or both in combination.' - if your diet is crap, your exercise is nonexistent, you get no sleep, no nootropic concoction is going to make up for that. As for employer-mandated enhancers - what follows is a very initial stream of thoughts at the idea, not something well thought-through at all. This article made me consider this for the first time. I can see the risk. At the same time there are so many other methods of mental improvement employers could be mandating today. Sure, none may be a "magic pill", but there are things proven to improve or deteriorate our performance at work. Sleep being one of them. Yet not once has an employer attempted to track and mandate a certain number of sleep hours to me. Not once have I had an employer force me to take up exercise. Having said that my employer does subsidize gym memberships so we are encouraged to stay active, so maybe this is a counter-example; maybe if a magical brain pill existed the way an employer would get you on it is by simply sponsoring it for their employees.

balfirevic 7y ago
> if your diet is crap, your exercise is nonexistent, you get no sleep, no nootropic concoction is going to make up for that. Are you saying this as a statement of fact or more like an advice? Because, as a statement of fact, it is very probably false. Anti-ADHD medication will make up (and then some) for crappy diet, no exercise and bad sleep (this one probably only to a certain extent).
- lm28469 7y ago
  Coke will make up for not sleeping, not sure how you'll do in 10 years though. There is absolutely no way to make up for lack of sleep and shitty diet in the long run.
  - FeepingCreature 7y ago
    I'm not sure if we know enough about diet and sleep to assert this with confidence.

jshaqaw 7y ago

I appreciate the author raising the risks of cognitive enhancement in terms of a future where it is economically nonviable to opt-out. This is an interesting framing which I hadn't thought of before.

npo9 7y ago
This is a common framing borrowed by steroid use in athletics.
boringg 7y ago
Agree with this. I think that is the part I find most interesting about the article. The connection to anti-vaccination is a bit tenuous.
mistermann 7y ago
I think one could argue that similar parallels could be drawn to global trade, with respect to variance in work ethic/productivity across different cultures (as a substitute for variance due to cognitive enhancement).

mdszy 7y ago

So the premise of the article is to literally take mind-altering drugs in order to become more valuable to your employer. This is so fucked up.

icandoit 7y ago
No, from the article: "In my view, the best methods to heighten creativity and increase your “out of the box” thinking are traditional, analog, and noninvasive. These methods can be found in John Dewey’s classic “How to Think” primer, first published in 1910 or even earlier from Rene’ Descartes’s Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting One’s Reason and Seeking Truth in the Science." The opening few paragraphs are just setting the stage. Showing you what crazy people get up to. A juicy dystopic vision to capture reader attention.
beaconstudios 7y ago
you could also do it to become more valuable to yourself, as an entrepreneur.
- mdszy 7y ago
  So you could call that "so you can become more valuable to the capitalist machine." Still fucked up that the concept is that you have to do drugs in order to, apparently, avoid being out-competed by your drug-addled competition and suddenly being unable to provide for yourself/your family.
  - beaconstudios 7y ago
    you can be an entrepreneur to follow a passion as well as for pure capitalist greed. For example, sometimes I can't focus very well so I take modafinil. It's a short-stop fix for something I'm working to improve long-term. I do this in order to work on something I find intrinsically rewarding. Though I feel like you're not really complaining about cognitive enhancement, but more about capitalism. In which case, sure, capitalism is pretty flawed.
    - 7y ago

leto_ii 7y ago

> I figure that most engineers will reject collectivism and be comfortable with a libertarian framing. I realize this is a bit besides the point, but why are the two often presented as mutually exclusive? Why can't something be done both in a collective and a libertarian fashion?

wholepointofcc 7y ago
Because the core of libertarianism is individuality in opposition to collectivism.
- armenarmen 7y ago
  Against forced collectivism
shantly 7y ago
Collectivism plus high degrees of personal liberty tends to run into unsustainable game-theoretical coordination problems in a hurry.

nkkollaw 7y ago

Get enough sleep (most important I guess), don't do drunks nor drink alcohol. I'm only good at _giving_ advice, but I don't think there's any secret besides those things..?

pkroll 7y ago
Physical exercise, is the other one with a definite effect on cognition. Not really SECRET though.

dangus 7y ago

Whether it be drugs, cybernetic enhancements, mental discipline and training, and changes in diet, I’d eschew all of them (maybe except for diet improvement) and instead advocate for this: engineers should stop taking work so seriously. I don’t really care if I’m working to 100% of my potential. My employer won’t pay me more for that optimization anyway. I think there’s something of a toxic attitude in Silicon Valley that we should all be honing ourselves into this amazing constantly-tinkering engineer who runs a really cool blog. There’s also a general toxic mentality in America that we can all work our way to becoming billionaires - in reality, none of us can optimize our way into having family connections to the elites in our society. In reality, that engineer doing all that cool stuff in the Bay Area in their shared studio apartment probably doesn’t have a better retirement plan than the community college sysadmin with a paid-off single family home in upstate New York. For me, I just work to put food on the table. I want to be average enough to he employable. Anything beyond that isn’t worth the diminishing return on investment, or a reduction in family time. I can’t optimize my way to being genetically gifted enough to match the output of the 10x engineers who do get promoted, and I certainly can’t match their 24/7 dedication to work. Employers generally promote people for making the right person happy at the right time, not for producing the most technically competent work.

cobbzilla 7y ago
> I don’t really care if I’m working to 100% of my potential. My employer won’t pay me more for that optimization anyway. Those who are self-employed may feel differently. If you value a certain kind of balance in life, I agree with everything you said. There are many of us who have an internal drive to do “impossible” things; it’s a valuable and inseparable part of our identity. It’s OK that not everyone has this, the world would probably be worse if everyone did. And it should never feel like an externally-imposed expectation, that would definitely be unhealthy.
jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
I know, right? I'm constantly telling everyone they need to slow down. So many folks seem to forget that there's no point in climbing the ladder quickly, because ultimately, it doesn't actually go anywhere. It's just a ladder.

tw1010 7y ago

I've never heard someone persuasively and eloquently express to me, in a non-dopey way, just how (small amounts of) acid can act as cognitive enchantment. Anyone care to take a stab at it? For instance, is the effect only temporary, in the sense that it unlocks some region of not normally traversed mental state space? (E.g. allowing you to write paragraphs you wouldn't otherwise be able to.) Or is the effect more permanent, in the sense of teaching you something, providing you with a new muscle which can be used later even in a sober state of mind (teaching you to ride a type of brain bike, which then can't be unlearned), or by showing you connections between disparate ideas you hadn't previously had the ability to see next to each other?

bigzyg33k 7y ago
As somebody who has microdosed, I'd attribute most "enhancement" to perceived improvement in mood, and an improvement in my ability to look at problems from "outside" the box. I'm currently leetcoding in preparation for tech interviews, and find it much easier to work out the "trick" to solve problems while microdosing LSD
- jl2718 7y ago
  This is a perfect example of nootropic dystopia: paying for a small advantage in a mostly meaningless unproductive task with possibly maladaptive permanent changes to the brain. Of course this is not new. Ritalin has been used as a study drug for meaningless academic tests for decades. But it really goes beyond drugs. The experiences created by media and games today, even social app feedback loops, are far more powerful than any real-world experience. Go to bed every night with a show or a game or a social app, and you will lose your edge very quickly. (I’m currently embroiled in a muted partner dispute of several years over this.) And yet I have considered exactly the same, because the last few years has filled my head with so much crap that I never wanted to think about; perhaps microdosing would allow a more intentional reset, and leetcode may be the closest thing normal folks have to productive mental engagement. Certainly not most jobs, even in tech, which is sad.
  - GaryNumanVevo 7y ago

duelingjello 7y ago

It would be interesting to identify the differences in genomes, epigenomes and microbiomes between geniuses, average and impaired/neuro-atypical persons. Maybe then, some un/ethical gene editing/silencing would be possible.

jpadkins 7y ago

disappointed based on the headline. I thought I was going to get a list of nootropics and dosages that have been proven to be effective.

scarejunba 7y ago
You will probably be interested in https://www.gwern.net/Nootropics https://www.gwern.net/Nootropics

rymohr 7y ago

Look into transcendental meditation, starting with this short overview by David Lynch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2UHLMVr4vg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2UHLMVr4vg

mensetmanusman 7y ago

Mine: 1500 calorie dinner with lots of fresh salad, fruits, meat, veggies, cheese at ~5:30 pm. Get at least 7 hours of sleep. One cup of coffee at 6:00 AM, black, no dairy/sugar, no breakfast (continue fast). At 12 pm, have 1-2 apples to break fast and to fend off hunger. Eat the entire apple/core for probiotic properties. Tip: try to stay on my feet most of the day, standing desk, moving to other places, etc. — It has taken a decade to find this diet for my cognitive enhancement. I do not get tired post noon now until after 4 pm. Extremely alert around 9 to 11 AM. A daily 18 hour fast seems to be working really well for some reason. Only one cup of coffee per day. Sleep is critical and should be repetitive. I know I am in a good place when I am consistently waking up 3-5 minutes prior to 5:30 AM alarm.

swah 7y ago
So you eat around 6pm and go to bed 5 hours later? I sleep at the same time but often eat around 20 or 21...
- mensetmanusman 7y ago
  Yes, If I snack before bed or eat around 20/21, I can feel more hunger pains the following morning around 10, which is a negative on the cognitive performance :)
gherkinnn 7y ago
Interesting. Such a big dinner ruins my sleep, but a massive breakfast and a light lunch does it for me.
- heymijo 7y ago
  Your eating pattern matches up with what Dr. Satchin Panda of the Salk Institute is finding regarding circadian rhythms, which every cell in our body has. Evidence points to the benefits of eating only within an 8-12 hour window each day. With newer evidence suggesting having that eating window open from breakfast through lunch being the best for health/longevity/etc. Dr. Rhonda Patrick gets into this with Dr. Panda in a few episodes. https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-panda https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-panda https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-round-2 https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/satchin-round-2

fortran77 7y ago

Learn Rust. You'll think clearer, make fewer errors, and be more productive. You'll find yourself thinking about programming problems in new, better, ways. Rust requires you to program well. At the same time, it doesn’t expect you to know everything before starting. When something is not going to work in a program, the compiler will not only tell you what is wrong but suggest fixes to the code.

trandana 7y ago

Frequent exercise and healthy eating.