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Tron: Evolution – SecuROM DRM expiration makes game unplayable 9 years later
- floatingatoll 7y agoIn 2017, Disney updated TRON 2.0 (released 2003) for Windows 10 compatibility: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/07/01/cor-tron-2-0-just-got-patched-to-work-for-windows-10/ https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/07/01/cor-tron-2-0-jus...
- adam12 7y agohttps://www.gog.com/game/tron_20 https://www.gog.com/game/tron_20
- slacka 7y agoTo avoid any confusion, these are 2 separate games: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron_2.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron_2.0 vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron:_Evolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron:_Evolution
- jonny_eh 7y agoIt demonstrates that Disney could update it, even though it's an old release.
- bentcorner 7y agoI'm not too familiar with the relationship between developers and publishers, so maybe this doesn't matter, but Disney is the publisher. Tron 2.0 was made by Monolith which is still around today. Tron Evolution was made by Propaganda Games which shut down in 2011.
- jonny_eh 7y agoThat certainly can affect how easy it would be for them to update it, but Disney should have the source code, and removing DRM should trivial if they have the source.
- usrusr 7y agoI think contrasting is what they were doing, not confusing.
- floatingatoll 7y agoI’m glad for the clarification on them being two separate games. I almost included but removed the text “the previous Tron game”. Should have kept it.
- J5892 7y agoWow, I remember trying to replay that game at some point, and not being able to launch it. I'm glad they patched it. It was one of my favorite games from the early 2000s.
- jimbob45 7y agoThis game is worth playing for any programmers out there. There's a lot of in-humor that only programmers pick up on.
- coding123 7y agoWouldn't you expect the default action of SecuROM to ENABLE all installations if the contract goes bad? I would urge all companies to stop using them if this is their stance.
- ThrowawayR2 7y ago> "Wouldn't you expect the default action of SecuROM to ENABLE all installations if the contract goes bad?" No, because it would probably take all of 5 minutes for pirates to figure out a way to leverage that to bypass the protection.
- grrowl 7y agoIf the server is contactable, and the server goes from returning a signed KEY_IS_VALID response to a signed KEY_IS_ALWAYS_VALID_BECAUSE_DISNEY, it has the same level of security as the existing solution. It does give SecuROM less subscription revenue security, though.
- devrand 7y agoMy hunch is that they turned down the endpoints that the clients are trying to connect to.
- jchw 7y agoNo, I think that this makes sense. Failing open would make the DRM useless if you could trick the client into thinking the contract was expired. OTOH, SecuROM is also “securing” their software from modifications, so if it were to fail open, it would still at least be working to keep binary integrity and obfuscation working; obviously SecuROM does not want to offer this for free. In my mind the correct action would be for the developers to release a patch that removes SecuROM. Similar was often done for other games that had CD based authentication; it was often removed years after original release, which makes sense to do after the pirates have long compromised the security. I think it makes just as much sense for online authentication for a game this old. Aside: I am trying to avoid injecting my personal opinions about DRM here since they aren’t relevant, but just to be clear I am not trying to express sympathy or support for either party. This is amazingly dumb in my opinion.
- Rebelgecko 7y agoFortunately, enterprising reverse engineers have already released a patch that allows the game to work.
- snuxoll 7y agoIn the case of current DMCA exemptions, it’s even arguably legal to distribute. > Video games in the form of computer programs embodied in physical or downloaded formats that have been lawfully acquired as complete games, when the copyright owner or its authorized representative has ceased to provide access to an external computer server necessary to facilitate an authentication process to enable local gameplay,
- paulie_a 7y agoWho cares about the dmca? Just ignore it and live consequence free
- baroffoos 7y agoIt matters for the people that create and distribute the cracks. Its much easier to simply dump the crack file/source on your website and freely distribute it if its legal to do so.
- vageli 7y ago> Who cares about the dmca? Just ignore it and live consequence free The people distributing the software are at greater risk than those downloading it.
- paulie_a 7y agoThe risk is basically nothing. You get a notification saying "don't do that again". In my younger days I helped distribution with various scene groups to the tune of terabytes of files. I think I got a few notices that ended in the garbage. At the time I was getting cracked copies from employees of ILM and pixar
- yosefzeev 7y agoEvolution to---shit!
- xerxex 7y agoAs South Park puts it "F" Disney.
- crummy 7y agoIt would be reasonable for Steam to allow refunds for games that break like this, and bill the publisher for it.
- rlayton2 7y agoIANAL, but I believe that in Australia, you would be entitled to a refund. There is no fixed time limit on refunds, and it would be reasonable to suggest that a game like this should just keep working. You'd probably have to argue your case still, as the company isn't likely to just refund without a fight. (As an aside, if you get a dishwasher and use it for 10 years, the "general wear and tear" would deny your refund, as it would be reasonable to suggest that ongoing usage would wear down the machine, especially, for instance, if you didn't do the regular maintenance suggested. )
- watsonian__ 7y agoIt would be a refund in Australia as it is a faulty product. They may try stiff you on returning a physical disk (how do you prove it was faulty on sale?) but a good store will offer store credit at the very least because video games do not make money. The consoles do. The only times a refund can be denied in Australia when a problem occurs is if it was caused by you or if you changed your mind on a purchase. Otherwise the purchaser can dictate how they are rectified (swap, credit or refund). Edit: This is assuming you purchase it now. If you purchased it 9 years ago - it would be tough luck. The pivot is the condition at point of sale.
- Bnshsysjab 7y agoWhat? Australian consumer law has a limitation on 2 years or reasonable lifetime. Games don’t last forever and get obsoleted by newer operating systems. Sure I can run wine/VMware but I can also keep my 100 year old washing machine running with regular repairs which isn’t fixing the issue of deprecation or end of life.
- arcticbull 7y ago
- Animats 7y agoWhat were the original terms? If they didn't allow for this, sue in small claims court. Disney would really hate to have to show up and lose.
- quietbritishjim 7y agoIt's the retailer you'd have to sue, as they sold you the dodgy product. Even if you won, they're unlikely to take Disney to court.
- Animats 7y agoAt least in California, you can go after the manufacturer or the retailer: Unless disclaimed in the manner prescribed by this chapter, every sale of consumer goods that are sold at retail in this state shall be accompanied by the manufacturer’s and the retail seller’s implied warranty that the goods are merchantable. The retail seller shall have a right of indemnity against the manufacturer in the amount of any liability under this section. No implied warranty of merchantability and, where applicable, no implied warranty of fitness shall be waived, except in the case of a sale of consumer goods on an “as is” or “with all faults” basis where the provisions of this chapter affecting “as is” or “with all faults” sales are strictly complied with. Any waiver by the buyer of consumer goods of the provisions of this chapter, except as expressly provided in this chapter, shall be deemed contrary to public policy and shall be unenforceable and void. [1] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&division=3.&title=1.7.&part=4.&chapter=1.&article=1 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.x....
- jpambrun 7y agoIn my jurisdiction the manufacturer is responsible. The seller's liability is only 30 days.
- jdkee 7y ago“DRM: Defective by Design (TM)“ I forgot where i heard that quote but it seems apropo.
- ignoranceprior 7y agoProbably from the Free Software Foundation: https://www.defectivebydesign.org/ https://www.defectivebydesign.org/
- UI_at_80x24 7y agoAnother example of the pirated version being superior to the retail version.
- baroffoos 7y agoI had a legitimate copy of spore back in the day but I never got to play it since I didn't have an internet connection and the DRM required it :/
- Nursie 7y agoIt wasn't worth the hype. It was cute and all, but you played through a 'flow' like cell phase, a simple tribal phase, a slightly more complex civilisation phase and then went space and ... meh. I wanted to love it, and I did play it through a few times, but from the hype you'd have thought it was the game of a generation where ultimately it was unsatisfying and played out more or less the same each time.
- michaelmior 7y agoAgreed. It took me a while before I got a copy and I was ultimately pretty disappointed. I think some of the ideas still have a lot of potential though. I hope to see other games explore things at that scale in the future. Some elements of this seem to be present in No Man's Sky which I haven't played, but that's the only thing that I can think of that relates.
- Moru 7y agoI was given Farcry 4 a few years ago. I tried to install it last week and the key was used already. The game was in plastic wrapper still, I just opened it. Support said there was nothing they could do. Luckily I found the receipt and got the money back from MediaMarkt instead. Never buying boxed games again.
- Macha 7y agoHad a similar experience with my steam copy of red alert 3 a couple of years back (before the GameSpy shutdown, so the servers were still up). Logged in after not having played for years, the online system kept reporting invalid CD Key, EA told me Steam had to issue a new key, Steam insisted that it was EA's fault, end result was I couldn't play my game online
- Apocryphon 7y agoGreat find, and I'm curious who's trying to play a nine year-old single-player average game that's a tie-in to the somewhat forgettable Tron: Legacy movie. Looks like gamers were trying to play this and reported it on the Steam forums and elsewhere, but why this game specifically and why now? Was there a sale?
- judge2020 7y agoSpeedrunners: https://www.speedrun.com/tronevolution https://www.speedrun.com/tronevolution
- Apocryphon 7y agoReally goes to show that games are no different a medium from books or film, and must be preserved and maintained in perpetuity in case that latter generations will want to consume them.
- lostgame 7y agoI’m very grateful for the efforts of the likes of archive.org, that tirelessly dedicate themselves to the preservation of digital media.
- nottorp 7y agoDoes it matter? They paid for it, they should be able to play it.
- Apocryphon 7y agoWhy not? It’s interesting to ask why an old, average to mediocre game had enough users trying to play it to discover this problem.
- nprateem 7y agoThere's what, 20 or 30 years worth of games now, and some of them are still great (e.g. Half Life: Opposing Force). 9 years is nothing. It's even more true for music (luckily that's generally not hobbled by DRM though).
- pmarreck 7y agoAnd now you know why data hoarders ("digital archivists") ride the line of legality just to have a working copy of something that MAY work indefinitely.
- __jal 7y agoAs long as people continue to pay good money for defective products, there will be people selling them. Vote with your wallet.
- Ancalagon 7y agoI'm curious if Spore the game will become victim to its DRM at some point in the near future as well.
- nfriedly 7y agoArguably, Spore was a victim of its own DRM from day one. I think the sales would have been much higher if it hadn't been for the awful DRM.
- thaumasiotes 7y agohttps://www.gog.com/game/spore_collection https://www.gog.com/game/spore_collection
- srcmap 7y agoWonder if there is enough for class action lawsuit for this. But a big fan of lawsuit normally, I would definitively support it if I am on the Jury.
- tracker1 7y agoCame to suggest the same... hopefully the fines are significant enough to deter this kind of behavior in the future or to get them to provide an "unlock" after DRM servers shut down.
- liendolucas 7y agoIt's terrible. There are out there such good games completely screwed by DRMs. I long miss the old days were a CD was enough to play a game and do whatever you wanted to do with it (give it to a friend, resell it, reinstall the game in another machine).
- Moru 7y agoWhat is super frustrating is that the industry has talked the Swedish government into puting a tax on all media (harddrives, usb memory, CDs, tapes and so on). This tax is supposed to pay for private copying, a leftover from the mix-tape days. We still pay this tax on all media and it goes directly to the industry but we still can't copy media between friends because of DRM. In general DRM should not be allowed here.
- BlueTemplar 7y agoYep, this is incoming for bulk hard drives in France too... (most of the other storage forms have been taxed for years).
- sturmeh 7y agoIt seems absurd that they would "deregister" copies of the game instead of "releasing" them. Of course that's the better "business" between the two options, that ultimately screws over the consumer.
- Moru 7y agoA confusation on Steam though. You don't own the game, you rent it. "The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services"
- Stevvo 7y agoNo different to purchasing a game on physical media. You only own the physical media itself, not game stored on it; the license is the same regardless. Some physical copies of software have gone even further; the disc itself remains property of the publisher.
- ensignavenger 7y agoYes, but you are purchasing the license. The content is licensed, the license to the content is sold.
- Aloha 7y agoQuite arguably, this puts the consumer in a stronger position in this one case: they purchased a perpetual license for the content, the license was unanimously revoked by the actions rights holder, they now deserve a refund.
- rrobukef 7y agoThen the steam-button shouldn't say "Buy" but "Rent".
- Havoc 7y agoBroken by design. Steam isn't much better in terms of rights, but at least valve ensures some sort of "it works".
- Stevvo 7y agoNope. Those having this issue purchased Tron: Evolution on Steam.
- BlueTemplar 7y agoSteam doesn't even list Denuvo, a DRM by basically the same company as SecuROM, as a "3rd-party DRM"... (Not to mention which one of their own DRMs, if any, a game uses...)
- docmars 7y agoAnd another reason why DRM absolutely sucks.
- glacials 7y agoI'm one of twelve speedrunners of this game [1] and this is a killing blow to our community. Those of us lucky enough to have the game installed are the only ones who can continue speedrunning this game, and we can never uninstall it or switch computers. No new speedrunners can enter the scene. It was enough work getting it to run over the years without Games for Windows Live, or at a modern resolution, or at a modern framerate, with horrible keyboard controls, and without crashing at boot due to driver issues. Now, new players can't even get their foot in the door enough to see that there are fixes. Even with a crack, this is the end of speedrunning for us. [1]: https://www.speedrun.com/tronevolution https://www.speedrun.com/tronevolution
- sillysaurusx 7y agoI have to ask, how does it feel investing so much time into something that just evaporated overnight? Do you think your skills can translate to other games? FWIW, I'm a big fan of the speedrunning community: Karl Jobst, Calebhart, kosmic, etc. I can't imagine what it would be like if, say, FF7 stopped working due to DRM and Caleb had to switch games. He'd be alright, but most of his audience comes to see FF7. EDIT: It sounds like people have patched the game to work without SecuROM. Do you think that might coax new players into the scene? One positive way to look at this is that it's free advertising for this particular game.
- Sargos 7y agoWhy can't you speedrun with the crack? If everyone agrees on a common executable that works it can be verified via SHA256 and still be used for speedruns.
- anonytrary 7y agoI understand the sentiment around this specific instance is overwhelmingly negative, but I find the general concept of an exploding game to be fascinating. Consider a game that requires a buy-in of N dollars and explodes after a month. Upon exploding, the player with the most progression (e.g. level) gets the entire pot.
- mehrdadn 7y agoHow is this legal when people have already bought the game? Would this be a sound basis for a lawsuit?
- kijiki 7y agoSo in this version of the story, the MCP defeats TRON.
- self_awareness 7y agoSince DRM is designed to restrict access to content, I'd say that it's doing what it's supposed to do! I'm joking, obviously. I really think that DRM is damaging to the industry. That's why I always buy non-DRM versions (for games, this mostly means I'm buying from GOG.com)
- ReptileMan 7y agoThis is why I never buy a game, before a crack is out. For me DRM has the opposite effect of intended - it delays my purchase.
- laughablePenis 7y agoIt's patently ridiculous to overload the term "community" within the context of a console game, ultimately controlled by an entity like Disney. Console games are not made available to the public with an idealistic belief in "community" and Disney is notorious for the hostile reputation they've earned, crushing fan-oriented cottage industries. If you buy Disney, if you buy console games, and you think you'll be able to form lasting relationships with anyone other than a company with business goals that result in money leaving your pockets to fill up corporate bank accounts, disappointment will become a constant companion.
- JVIDEL 7y agoIf you think this is bad wait until streaming-only games get killed.