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Data leak reveals how China 'brainwashes' Uighurs in prison camps
- rayiner 7y agoPowered by Google (R). https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/28/tsinghua-university-plans-to-open-ai-research-center-in-china-names-googles-ai-chief-as-advisor/ https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/28/tsinghua-university-plans...
- fwxwi 7y ago"never allow escapes", as opposed to, say, Western prisons, where escapes are allowed or even encouraged,
- _Microft 7y agoThe documents reveal how every aspect of a detainee's life is monitored and controlled: "The students should have a fixed bed position, fixed queue position, fixed classroom seat, and fixed station during skills work, and it is strictly forbidden for this to be changed. "Implement behavioural norms and discipline requirements for getting up, roll call, washing, going to the toilet, organising and housekeeping, eating, studying, sleeping, closing the door and so forth." Is it even possible to not be broken by something like this?
- api 7y agoThat kind of harsh routine along with sleep deprivation, repetition, and calorie restriction are bog standard cult mind control techniques, and yes they do work. All appear to be present in these camps.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- abtinf 7y agoThis is exactly how American education is structured. What are we doing to our children?
- kd3 7y agoYes indeed, practically worldwide. As Larken Rose writes in "The most dangerous superstition": "The purported purpose of schools is to teach reading, writing, mathematics, and other academic fields of thought. But the message that institutions of “education” actually teach, far more effectively than any useful knowledge or skills, is the idea that subservience and blind obedience to “authority” are virtues. The “grades” the student receives, the way he is treated, the signals he is sent — written, verbal, and otherwise — all depend upon one factor: his ability and willingness to unquestioningly subvert his own desires, judgment and decisions to those of “authority.” If he does that, he is deemed “good.” If he does not, he is deemed “bad.” This method of indoctrination was not accidental. Schooling in the United States, and in fact in much of the world, was deliberately modeled after the Prussian system of “education,” which was designed with the express purpose of training people to be obedient tools of the ruling class, easy to manage and quick to unthinkingly obey, especially for military purposes. As it was explained by Johann Fichte, one of the designers of the Prussian system, the goal of this method was to “fashion” the student in such a way that he “simply cannot will otherwise” than what those in “authority” want him to will. At the time, the system was openly admitted to be a means of psychologically enslaving the general populace to the will of the ruling class. And it continues to accomplish exactly that, all over the world, including in the United States."
- zzzcpan 7y agoNot all countries are equal at this. Some push police country level obedience, like with "detentions" modeling jails.
- coldtea 7y agoTeach them that they live in a society, and so they have certain responsibilities, limits, and roles, as opposed to being mere individuals that can do whatever they please, others be damned? Sorry, but the Chinese have camps for ethnic (or religious) targeted detention and/or brainwashing. This is nothing like "what we do" in education, American or otherwise, and the similarities (the students having a specific desk, queues to eat, etc) are irrelevant and superficial...
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago> Is it even possible to not be broken by something like this? Which then “justifies” harsh, potentially fatal, punishment.
- ratww 7y ago> The students should have a fixed bed position, fixed queue position, fixed classroom seat, and fixed station during skills work, and it is strictly forbidden for this to be changed My school was like that when I was growing up. I'm not justifying what China is doing, and I didn't like it myself. But I find it weird to find it quoted here like that.
- iscrewyou 7y agoBut the reality is this: you had the option to leave, they don’t. You survived, they probably won’t.
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoYou really don’t have an option to leave without being disciplined. Both systems are using similar tactics to create obedient factory workers; which is exactly the point. The work camp will use just more of that.
- input_sh 7y agoIt is an option, chosen by the parents. They weren't forced to attend that school based on their ethnicity.
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoFor a kid, their parents are often unaware or unsympathetic to their struggles. And just to be clear, the same tactics are applied to Han Chinese (well, the high schools are more harsh, but the Chinese work camp model was already well developed before they decided to do this en masse in Xinjiang). It is horrible, don’t get me wrong, I’m not going to defend it, but I also hope it instills a bit more awareness in our own shortcomings (as well as that of China in general).
- bogwog 7y ago> For a kid, their parents are often unaware or unsympathetic to their struggles So you're just going to generalize on all parents like that? Believe it or not, there are actually some parents out there who are interested in their child's well-being and involved in their life. > I’m not going to defend it It seems to me like you're grasping at straws to do precisely that.
- __m 7y agoSo like military service except the dancing
- devhwrng 7y agoMaybe Tim Cook will show some "courage" now. [Edit] Sorry for the snark. In a market economy, the only way companies like Apple might act in the same way that compassionate human beings would, is if it were in the interests of their bottom line. Perhaps articles like this will hit critical mass, and Apple will put out a statement, carefully composed to ensure that China doesn't lose face. Perhaps they'll do something tangible. Come back 12 months later and nothing will have changed.
- daenz 7y agoIt's only smart to be "woke" when it's profitable.
- kd3 7y agoThat’s never profitable if we can believe the saying go woke, go broke.
- the_duke 7y agoWe have to stop expecting moral behavior from publicly listed companies. They will naturally trend towards short to medium term profit maximization within the given legal constraints. The boundaries for corporate behaviour have to be established by elected governments. In the case of China that could mean customs duties, sanctions and stricter regulations for moving part of your supply chain there.
- reaperducer 7y agoThis is a false dilemma. There are plenty of publicly listed companies that also engage in moral behaviors. Pretending it's an either/or situation only serves to excuse the behavior and derail the discussion.
- the_duke 7y agoWe should support companies that act morally, and punish others by not buying their products and criticizing them. But expecting them to act morally out of their own volition seems foolish to me. Note also that I explicitly said publicly traded companies. Large ones always have a diverse ownership structure with institutional investors. A CEO that hurts profits by acting in the public interest will probably be replaced pretty soon, forced to fall in line, or have to otherwise do enough to offset. The only way to motivate them is external pressure or benefits. Eg Apple has probably decided to focus on user privacy to provide a contrast with Google and the Android ecosystem and maintain a good relationship with customers, not because privacy is "good". The situation is somewhat different with private companies, where there are few owners that can actually have an impact.
- Causality1 7y agoChina's behavior is a good illustration of the fact that if Nazi Germany had kept the Holocaust restricted to its own borders and not invaded other countries we would have happily sat back and let them do it.
- api 7y agoThat is unfortunately most likely true. Stalin is a case in point.
- arkades 7y agoThere’s more truth to this statement than I am comfortable with.
- Mediterraneo10 7y agoAt least during Nazi Germany there was some interest in helping Jews escape. Yes, instances when ships of Jewish refugees were turned away from e.g. the USA have gone down in infamy, but there were still things like the Kindertransport. When it comes to the plight of the Uighurs, even fellow Muslim countries are loathe to provide any big public help due to the fear of alienating China.
- whatshisface 7y agoIf there's no support for Uighurs, who leaked the documents?
- djohnston 7y agoi think about this too. hell, if hitler hadn't invaded russia / western europe the nazi's might still hold central europe
- anonymousse1234 7y agoSoviet Union did exactly that - they had gulags. North Korea is doing exactly that as we speak.
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- thruflo22 7y agoThe meaning of the phrase “Made in China” has now evolved to “Do not buy”.
- 99chrisbard 7y agoHard to do when it seems that China is now the world's factory...
- iscrewyou 7y agoNot if you live economically comfortably. There are definitely products that are same but made elsewhere. Even reducing usage from 100% Chinese products to 50% Chinese products makes a difference.
- weberc2 7y agoI wonder if there are any organizations that can certify products and brands. From inhumane conditions to poor quality to scammy marketing and outright fraud (especially on Amazon), I want to avoid Chinese products as much as possible. It’s difficult to avoid completely, but there’s certainly a lot of low hanging fruit.
- blotter_paper 7y agoIn fact, any organization can do this. In the vegan/vegetarian/organic/non-GMO food space there are multiple competing certification programs. The LSD Avengers used to fulfill this role on the old Silk Road. It seems there is at least one NGO that specifically certifies goods as made in the USA, though I have no idea how legit they are: https://madeinusacertified.wordpress.com/ https://madeinusacertified.wordpress.com/
- weberc2 7y agoI agree that any organization can, but I don't know of any. I'm vaguely aware of orgs that certify organic/non-GMO/etc and presumably someone certifies kosher food and conflict free diamonds and the like, but I'm not sure of any that certify labor conditions or that a given company operates with some baseline of ethics and is subject to accountability.
- whatshisface 7y agoHere is the leaked document if you want to read it: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6558510-China-Cables-Telegram-English.html https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6558510-China-Cables...
- heavyset_go 7y agoWhat I find chilling is that Uigher children are being kidnapped from their families and sent to barbed wire enclosed camps as well[1]. There, they are subjected to CCP brainwashing[2]. [1] https://youtu.be/v7AYyUqrMuQ?t=1791 https://youtu.be/v7AYyUqrMuQ?t=1791 [2] https://youtu.be/v7AYyUqrMuQ?t=1826 https://youtu.be/v7AYyUqrMuQ?t=1826
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- hamsapelea 7y agoConsidering what a certain religion does to every.single.country.where.it.spreads. it is understandable that china does this. Actually it’s pretty mild compared to what some parts of the world have turned into, and considering the dangers it brought to western europe. Let them deal with the problem there own way, for everyone’s sake!
- bransonf 7y agoChina wants the Uighur‘s gone, period. I don’t think anything short of military action is going to stop that. And frankly I don’t think that is ever going to happen, because of the world powers that would be capable, they too hold resentment for Islamic religions.
- slimed 7y agoIt has nothing to do with that. If they were doing this to a Christian minority we still wouldn't be doing anything. Mutually assured destruction is a powerful force.
- hamsapelea 7y agoHow else does one deal with cults effectively, if not prison or rehab?
- leesec 7y agoPlease remove this nonsense. Ethnic groups are not cults.
- monocasa 7y agoThey're doing this to the extremely radical parts not the whole ethnic group. Like the governor of the region was a Uighur last time I checked.
- lostlogin 7y agoThey only do it to the radicalised children? Think about what you are saying.
- monocasa 7y agoChildren for radicalised families, yes. Like they're literally dealing with a Taliban like problem. Tons of Uighurs trained with the Taliban as Xinjiang borders eastern Afghanistan.
- tracer4201 7y agoThis is a lie, and I hope you’re banned for spreading Chinese state propaganda. There is nothing here that justifies the internment of hundreds of thousands of people, including children. The Chinese communist party is a disease.
- monocasa 7y agoUhigurs were literally picked up by the US in northern alliance training camps. How is that propaganda?
- reaperducer 7y agoCompletely off topic, but can someone provide a layman's pronunciation of "Uigher?" As someone who is not a linguist, the pronunciation squiggles in the Wikipedia entry are entirely unhelpful.
- sys_64738 7y agoThese are concentration camps.
- jacquesm 7y agoYou mean just like what is happening at the US southern border?
- _Microft 7y ago> You mean just like what is happening at the US southern border? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- jacquesm 7y agoYes, but in this particular case it is spot on. Kids are getting killed there. See, whataboutism is not a valid defense when it is your own country doing it, then it is whataboutyouism. If my country were doing this I'd drop what I'm doing and protest until the cows came home or they fixed it. But America - and Americans - are very quick to point the finger at other countries for things they do themselves with abandon.
- Spooky23 7y agoIt’s hard for Americans to take a high moral ground given that conduct.
- rayiner 7y agoNo it’s not and the false equivalency is incredibly destructive. It must be possible for countries to judge others without being perfect themselves. South Africa was forced to capitulate due to international pressure. They took the moral high ground, even though their race relations at home were deeply troubled. But they could do that because people understood that there was a hierarchy of wrongs and racial profiling in the justice system, while bad, wasn’t as bad as de jure segregation. When you say, well if America does something bad it has no business judging others, you destroy the ability to objectively assess right and wrong, wrong and very wrong, and bad from worse. It’s like gouging one of your eyes out and losing your depth perception. There are billions of people whose lives would be immeasurably improved if their countries were more like America (even with its faults). America can help those people, by showing moral leadership and acting from the moral high ground. It is imperative to the prosperity of future generations that the world come to look more like America and not like communist China. The “America is just as bad” rhetoric maybe makes you seem cool at parties with other moral relativists, but it’s bad for the world.
- paulcarroty 7y agoIt looks like improvement version of Soviet Russia camps. They also kidnapped kids from "bad" people, plus used mass hunger as weapon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
- tristram_shandy 7y agoOne might imagine China wants Xinjiang to remain Chinese, just as the US wants Texas to remain American. Let us construct a hypothetical situation where our geopolitical adversaries (Russia, China, parts of South America) had spent the better part of the 20th century backing equally hypothetical Jihadist (or even Reconquista) separatists in Texas. Perhaps the situation in Texas deteriorates when separatist Texans return from jihad in Syria, and some more violent fringes, armed and trained by Russia and China through proxies, begin widely-publicized attacks on civilians in California. Perhaps the most ethical response by the US would be to deploy prisons and security services to Texas, and use technology to monitor potential separatist action within the state. Certainly there would be human rights abuses. Now who is at fault, truly? The US? The separatists? No, of course not. One could place moral blame at the feet of our geopolitical enemies for encouraging this in the first place, but this is simply the reality of political action. Just to be clear, what is happening to the Uighur people is horrific and inhumane and absolutely disgusting, but I will not allow this humanist sentiment to be perverted by propagandists to manipulate otherwise intelligent, compassionade liberals into nationalists and xenophobes in the name of maintaining the Western hegemon. The anti-Chinese sentiment that has invaded the internet over the past several months has gone well beyond 'legitimate criticism of the Chinese government', and now sounds more like a racist, imperialist drumbeat for war. We should all be suspicious when fascists and libertarian capitalists find common ground and call it humanitarian.
- jessaustin 7y agoDude, no. They can have Texas.
- simonblack 7y agoI always get skeptical about stories that suddenly show up on scores of MSM websites, rather than the slower spread over a day or two or three that usually happens with 'real' news. I've been fooled too many times by stories about 'weapons of mass destruction', 'gas attacks', 'Trump's pee tapes', 'Tonkin Gulf incidents', etc, etc that I withhold judgement for some time till the bulk of the back-story arrives.
- blotter_paper 7y ago> Tonkin Gulf incidents Why did you include such a well documented false flag in your list of potentially fake news? [Edit: the document discussed in the following quote is from the NSA itself, so the government has admitted (39 years later) that this was a hoax.] From the NYT: > The most provocative document is a 2001 article in which an agency historian argued that the agency's intelligence officers "deliberately skewed" the evidence passed on to policy makers and the public to falsely suggest that North Vietnamese ships had attacked American destroyers on Aug. 4, 1964. > Based on the assertion that such an attack had occurred, President Lyndon B. Johnson ordered airstrikes on North Vietnam and Congress passed a broad resolution authorizing military action. > The historian, Robert J. Hanyok, wrote the article in an internal publication and it was classified top secret despite the fact that it dealt with events in 1964. Word of Mr. Hanyok's findings leaked to historians outside the agency, who requested the article under the Freedom of Information Act in 2003. https://web.archive.org/web/20081211090233/http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/02/politics/02tonkin.html?pagewanted=print https://web.archive.org/web/20081211090233/http://www.nytime...
- tomohawk 7y agoI was looking at two items in the store today and trying to decide which one to buy. As soon as I saw one was not made in China, the decision was simple. It's unfortunate that China is controlled by the CCP.
- mbar84 7y agoIf I were in such a camp, I imagine I would be very eager to learn Mandarin in an attempt to please the system.