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TikTok: Cheerfulness and censorship
- kingofpee 7y agoIt's gonna be interesting to watch TikTok in the next few months. Other large social medias gonna copy what they do (like what Instagram did to SnapChat) will be interesting to see them surviving it
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- joeraut 7y agoInstagram is already working on this, with their new video editing tool Reels [1]. It'll be very interesting to see if these other big players can catch up though, given TikTok's massive numbers. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/12/20960916/instagram-facebook-tiktok-clone-tool-scenes-clips-jane-wong https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/12/20960916/instagram-faceb...
- alisonatwork 7y agoTikTok has already been surviving it for 3 years. In China the short video battle already happened and Douyin (TikTok) came out the victor. Kuaishou is still around in rural areas and amongst the working class, but Douyin is king. Twitter has got to be kicking themselves that they had Vine and didn't do anything with it.
- whoevercares 7y agoIn case you don’t know, byte dance is BIG already, with Chinese market and capital back it really has no fear of those other giant who play catch-up
- facethrowaway 7y agoThis is pretty tame and actually sounds pretty pragmatic and well-organized in a non-threatening manner, especially given the target audience (kids). Moderating for different countries’ rules is a requirement unless you want to get kicked out of lots of markets. The real concern I have is in the fact that things below 50 views don’t get much moderation attention, which is the same across all platforms, and where we see the most risk for these platforms to be used to bully people within small social groups (such as at school). Anyone who thinks Facebook doesn’t similarly optimize the content within Explore etc is delusional. It would be interesting to compare the information these companies offer national security organizations.
- saagarjha 7y agoAre you joking? TikTok is absolutely awful at moderating content for (and generated by) children.
- senectus1 7y agowhile at the same time marketing and deliberately targeting children. I'd go as far as describing their behavior as "sexually Grooming" children. Not a fan here as I guess you can tell.
- pgeorgi 7y agoTheir approach to moderation is unusual in that they don't even pretend to be a neutral platform and as such it's a powerful differentiator to businesses that are rooted in a "free speech" culture. Shadow-banning individual posts ("Visible to self") is relatively unusual and acts as a demotivator to publish controversial content because such content doesn't drive engagement, as is actively demoting entire classes of content (like critical commentary on politics) from the start. This approach seems to help ensure that there won't ever be a subculture on their platform that grows, becomes controversial and at some point considers it their right to use the platform for their controversial content, avoiding all the outrage that late introduction of moderation brings with it. (see Twitter)
- fwxwi 7y agoOr Tumblr with pornography.
- nabla9 7y agoTikTok's genius is that they bring the TV-mentality to social media. For you feature is like 60 second TV channel of moderated content. Free people from choice and enable passivity, but provide them short social interaction. Less stress, more fun.
- lonelappde 7y agoSuch a Brave New World it brings us.
- samirillian 7y agoI think this is actually a pretty good model. I still dream of that perfect federated network that allows as complete autonomy as possible and finally kills both email and facebook messenger, but until then at least some people can have some joy in life.
- rhizome 7y agoStep 1: define "complete autonomy" Step 2: create tools to enable user control and configuration Step 3: update your will to require that this work-in-progress be left to someone who will continue your attempt after you die.
- s9w 7y agoI can't see how TikTik censors more than facebook or most other social platforms. This seems only to be a concern since it's the "other" side (Chinese in this case) doing it. > the search for keywords controversial from the point of view of the Chinese Government [...] did not yield any or only very few fitting content Yeah I could give you a nice list of words that results in an similar results page from Google, Youtube or Facebook.
- spectramax 7y agoNot really. Try rallying up support against Xi Jingpin on TikTok?
- pgeorgi 7y agoShowing non-sexual images of breasts on facebook may or may not work out well: https://www.facebook.com/the.ban.on.breastfeeding/ https://www.facebook.com/the.ban.on.breastfeeding/ The sensibilities are different but they exist.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jessaustin 7y agoIs there breastfeeding on TikTok? More generally, is there anything on TikTok which is banned by Facebook?
- kds3 7y ago> More generally, is there anything on TikTok which is banned by Facebook? That's wrong question. It usually doesn't matter what is banned, but what is "shadow-banned" really matters. You can't see what is shadow-banned on Facebook because they don't tell us how they do moderation on their news feed.
- jessaustin 7y ago
- fwxwi 7y agoTikTok is, as the title says, a social network for cheerfulness and fun. I don't use it, but I can understand they outright ban politics: 1) they avoid becoming the vile cesspool Twitter has become, 2) they avoid being asked by governments around the world to take down posts, 3) they avoid being targeted in propaganda campaigns.
- conformist 7y agoI'm sympathetic to the argument for banning politics outright. However, this would imply making sure that all politics is banned in practice, and not that the platform has the right to selectively ban politics. I'm not convinced tic toc does that.
- fwxwi 7y agoYes you have a point. As I've said I don't use it, so I don't know how it goes. What I'm saying is that a politics-free social network is not only possible, but desirable.
- lonelappde 7y agoWhat is the definition of "politics"?
- navaati 7y agoIn Ireland there is an implicit rule that at the pub you don’t talk politics or work, looks similar…
- jessaustin 7y agoI can understand excluding politics, but why are we drinking if it's not to lubricate our complaining about work? In what context is it acceptable for the Irish to complain about work?
- yowlingcat 7y ago
- joeraut 7y agoI'm surprised that they moderate every video with over 50-150 views, that seems quite unique in this market. This is probably largely a good thing though given the target market of kids/teenagers. It's already very interesting seeing how this is playing out.
- oefrha 7y agoI fail to see why every platform has to become a fucking idealogical battleground. If I’m in the market for a social network myself (HN notwithstanding) I’d probably choose a politics-free one if possible.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y agoThere is no such thing as a politics-free network, only one that only allows politics you agree with.
- fwxwi 7y agoThat is false. TikTok is a platform where people upload videos of themselves doing things like lip syncing, dancing, etc. That does not have to turn political at all. Unless you use the good ol' argument that "banning all political discussion is supporting the status quo which is also political"
- thisone 7y agoferrets seems to be having a good time on tiktok at the moment. So cute and so wholesome. Not political right? Ferrets are a weirdly political issue in some areas of the USA. It's pretty hard to have anything be politics free when the world we live in is political
- TeMPOraL 7y ago> Ferrets are a weirdly political issue in some areas of the USA. They're not political except for a select group people who want to make it political. They should not be encouraged or appreciated for trying to push that outlook on others.
- fzeroracer 7y agoI mean, that's literally how politics work. Something isn't political unless people make it political, otherwise it's just the norm of the time. You could replace [ferrets are] with [gay marriage is] and get the description for any political argument ever. People argue X is political, others argue it isn't political and create a political argument trying to argue it is/is not political. Repeat as nauseam for topic of your choice.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y agoFacebook will probably become like this (moderating proactively rather than reactively) eventually when they become too scared of fines under governments' attempts to regulate it into being good (governments should break it up instead).
- jessaustin 7y agoThis is a great plan for governments who don't want problematic speech to be hosted online.
- hohohmm 7y agoTry replacing 'TikTok' with Facebook, and replacing 'Chinese with 'American'....
- naringas 7y agoActually, replace with 'google'. Facebook did say they would permit political advertising without fact checking. Whereas google said they would enforce factualness
- harry8 7y agoFacebook will let you broadcast lies in secret (ie targeted at specific small groups so you and I don't know what lies are being told) just so long as you pay facebook to propagate those lies. Nazi party propaganda targeted at those showing mental health problems, sure, just pay facebook and they'll do that for you. They've said so. I really think this is the right way to think about what facebook are and what they do.
- hackersean 7y agoHaving just watched this it seems like TikTok is working to solve what is a real problem for our society. https://youtu.be/ymaWq5yZIYM https://youtu.be/ymaWq5yZIYM
- ridaj 7y agoCalling this censorship rather than editorial curation implies that content distribution platforms are somehow expected not to have an editorial line. I find this very odd and a misuse of the term censorship. "America's got talent" is a great show too, and they certainly select who gets onstage from all the people they audition. Is that censorship? I don't expect that TV show to give me info about protests any more than Tiktok. Censorship is when the powers of government or the marketplace are such that nobody could, if they wanted, get their message out. Yes there is actual censorship in China that filters anything from group messaging apps to movies, but isn't Tiktok here just defining an editorial line of non-controversial content?
- bantheads 7y ago>Censorship is when the powers of government or the marketplace are such that nobody could, if they wanted, get their message out. No, that's not the definition of censorship. >censorship: the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security. It's funny how many people are trying to redefine the definition of censorship in recent times; since Big Tech has grown more powerful than governments in their ability to control information flow. Though I'm glad it seems we have moved past the "only the government can do censorship" psuedo definition that many on HN were so frequently asserting.
- chibg10 7y agoDid you miss the section about Hong Kong and the blanket ban on political/protest content? The latter is very Brave New World-esque in that it both “keeps the app fun” and acts as a means to suppress dissent. If they have the capability to identify political/protest content, why not label and allow filtering instead of blanket removing all of it from the app?
- ridaj 7y agoI think it's very reasonable for a content platform to enforce some kind of norm on speech including against protest content. Back when Tiktok was musical.ly, ie more explicitly devoted to music-based content, I suppose it wouldn't have raised an eyebrow.
- ahakki 7y agoI recently featured in a music video of a friend who is a rapper. We posted a clip of it on a new tik tok account he made to promote his music to the youths. it was deleted within seconds. presumably due to feauring a realistic prop gun. the audio wasn't a problem (lyrics include "fuck the police" and "acab") as I could post harmless videos with the same track on my account. But that clip with the prop gun gets deleted instantly, even if you heavily filter it (crop, duotone, colorshift). so their ai detector seems pretty good.
- dehrmann 7y agoIt's like the Disneyland of social media.
- macmichael01 7y ago"Never before has a platform grown as fast as TikTok" - LOL that's what they all say!! I'm not interested in helping someone build out their AI stuff by freely contributing my data to their platform. But hey highschoolers might ignorantly willing to do so. I am really looking forward to a new technology coming out next year that will give power back to the people rather than a small group of people who think that they know what is best for the masses to see or not see.
- Albertchrist 7y agoI completely hate TikTok