49 ms·

Apple has locked me out of my developer account

1019 points by rwc 7y ago

jakozaur 7y ago
Another case how current tech giants build huge platform with no oversight exploiting their monopoly power. This developer should be able to appeal Apple decision for nominal fee (e.g. $100). There should be independent committee that could judge timely his case. If committee found developer makes invalid claim, then he loses fee. If Apple is found, it should be forced to change decision and pay for the committee cost plus refund $100 to developer. Being kicked out of platform such as Google, Facebook, Apple is a death penalty for many companies. Yet there is no equivalent of judicial system that works well enough in internet era.
- jakozaur 7y ago
  Judicial, Execution and Lawmaker branches should be separate in $10Bln+ tech platforms play: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers
sanxiyn 7y ago
> Apple always says that "running to the press doesn't help" This is a bald faced lie, so you must ignore it.
- FactolSarin 7y ago
  In fact, it's sometimes the only way to get help
- draw_down 7y ago
  I dunno if it’s a lie, maybe they believe it, but certainly reality suggests the opposite.
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  Companies absolutely hate bad publicity. Also, what have you got to lose at this point. Good luck.
- xhruso00 7y ago
  As per ex-App Store employee it always HELPS. https://youtu.be/tJeEuxn9mug?t=836 https://youtu.be/tJeEuxn9mug?t=836
  - judge2020 7y ago
    Better timestamp: https://youtu.be/tJeEuxn9mug?t=1840 https://youtu.be/tJeEuxn9mug?t=1840
- lm28469 7y ago
  Is it ? https://web.archive.org/web/20141226094343/https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://web.archive.org/web/20141226094343/https://developer...
- Despegar 7y ago
  It didn't seem to help the Dash developer. As far as I know, he never got his developer account back. https://mjtsai.com/blog/2016/10/10/apple-and-kapeli-respond/ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2016/10/10/apple-and-kapeli-respond/
  - Operyl 7y ago
    Seems it’s back though: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dash-offline-api-docs/id1239167694 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dash-offline-api-docs/id123916...
blisterpeanuts 7y ago
What a strange predicament. Perhaps a naive question, but is it possible to create a new developer's account and then request a transfer of your apps? Given that you have the sources & password to old account etc.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  I don’t think that would work if you can’t log into one of the accounts.
- atonse 7y ago
  You have to initiate the transfer from the account that owns the apps.
- george_perez 7y ago
  You could, but they would probably not be able to get to the page to transfer ownership to another Apple ID because they'll probably get sent to the contact form dead-end.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
djohnston 7y ago
Brutal, the frustration is palpable. Forgive my mobile engineering ignorance, but does developing on Android pose similar risks or is control less centralized to Google?
- non-entity 7y ago
  I recall seeing a few stories on here in the past few months regarding people's apps disappearing from Google Play and Google's support providing no real "support".
  - CtrlAltT5wpm 7y ago
    Would you happen to have a link? I'm going through the same thing, and support is no help.
    - non-entity 7y ago
      I believe this was the most recent I read. https://medium.com/@tokata/how-google-play-terminated-a-developer-for-no-reason-e4d760e9f472 https://medium.com/@tokata/how-google-play-terminated-a-deve...
      - CtrlAltT5wpm 7y ago
        The situation in the linked article is way different than what's happening to me. In any case, I appreciate the response and link.
- ngngngng 7y ago
  It's worse on android. You'll lose access to every google account you have (email, photos, drive) and if you circumvent by creating a new account and are caught then you will be banned again as well as all of the accounts that are associated with the new account. This could potentially destroy an entire business if they hire a banned individual and get their entire company banned because of it.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lameiam23 7y ago
tear
kiba 7y ago
One wonder how those problems managed to continuously get ignored as issues get escalated up the ladder.
- ben509 7y ago
  Probably a ticket in a queue that's languishing as the easy tickets are handled to make stats look good. Also, he doesn't mention that he's leaked stuff in the past, so it may be that various managers are reluctant to be the one to put in writing what they cancelled him for.
dewey 7y ago
Because it's not mentioned in the article but could be hint on why this happened (could also be entirely irrelevant). It's the guy who brought us a bunch of early iOS 13 leaks among other things: https://www.hackingwithswift.com/articles/164/interview-guilherme-rambo https://www.hackingwithswift.com/articles/164/interview-guil...
- SpyKiIIer 7y ago
  That seems most likely...
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > And he’s successful: he leaked marketing images for Apple Watch Series 4, he found iPhone X glyphs showing the notch, and more. Presumably in violation of the developer program's NDA.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    > he leaked marketing images for Apple Watch Series 4 I don’t think this specific one has anything to do with the NDA.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      I don't think that really changes anything. That article clearly indicates he sourced some information from the developer program betas, which would be a violation of the NDA when publicized.
      - romaaeterna 7y ago
        Then Apple can respond in an above-board way to such a violation. If the want to conduct their response through secret channels, in a harassing way, they shouldn't look to the courts to support their NDA rights on this. The same way that you can't stop paying rent to your landlord because he hasn't fixed your sink, Apple can't harass someone because they believe he is in violation of a contract.
yig 7y ago
This developer is also a journalist who has written many scoops on Apple's upcoming hardware and software: https://9to5mac.com/author/guirambobr/ https://9to5mac.com/author/guirambobr/ This may be why Apple is upset. Is it justified?
- sanxiyn 7y ago
  If this is it, Apple should say so, preferably with reference to Apple Developer Program Terms and Conditions. Running a Kafka trap instead is rather rude.
judge2020 7y ago
Slightly unrelated, but in the Developer portal, you can only create 5 of the "Developer ID Application" certificates per developer team. When you want to generate another one past 5, there is no option to revoke old certificates nor is there an option to ask for an increase. I had to contact developer support asking them to revoke the old ones so that I could generate a new one (since the past keys had been lost to MacOS wipes); but it took over two months between Dev support asking the product security team for assistance, and the Product Security team not responding, before they finally made an exception and allowed my account to generate one more certificate. I realize I should have backed up the previous keys (as I have done for this most recent one), but I find it odd you can't revoke existing certificates.
- GordonS 7y ago
  There is even a limit with the Apple Enterprise Developer program, which we had problems with just the other day. IIRC, the limit was also only 5 - it seemed arbitrarily low.
rocky1138 7y ago
We need an open phone. Today.
- mrec 7y ago
  AIUI the Librem 5 is already shipping.
  - mattl 7y ago
    I don't think so. The first batch went to staff.
technofiend 7y ago
Tangential at best but this is why I literally created a new user ID yesterday solely for Google's Stadia. They have a tendency to lower the ban hammer with little discretion and I'm quite sure sooner or later griefers will figure out how to allege cheating complaints that result in account closure. I'd rather not lose my real Google account to someone's online indigestion.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  this is why I literally created a new user ID yesterday solely for Google's Stadia Not enough. Google's ban hammer can hit not only an allegedly infringing account, but also any account it suspects is even related to that account. Share an IP address? Log in from the same place regularly? Machine has cookies for both? It's all gone.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
    Scary. Presumably you have some real world examples of this?
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      I haven't experienced it personally because I limit my exposure to Google as much as I can. But it's been discussed on HN a number of times.
  - technofiend 7y ago
    Meh. My google account is really just getting forwarded e-mails from another provider. If they banned every account I own I'd have to switch to Apple and restore my contacts from backup I use to feed my voip provider and photos from backblaze. It would be annoying but not devastating. However you can bet I'd raise holy hell on social media to try and undo it since that seems excessive.
liquidise 7y ago
Apple's relationship with developers has been a strange one for some time. It shows up in all kinds of ways, from their app development ecosystem to decisions on their hardware. I used to think the swap to a Unix-based OS was a fundamental shift to move in the developer direction. During the days of XServe i think that might have been true. These days though it more like the development community is some noisy group meant to be ignored. I would argue that the return of a physical Escape key is the only overtly pro-developer move from Apple in the last couple of years. Issues like the OP describes resonate well here because many of us have experienced Apple's tomfoolery in 1st or 2nd hand ways, too. It is horrible to have your hard work, creative platform and livelihood torn from under you without explanation or for what may feel like arbitrary reasons. If HN comment sections are early indicators, devs are moving on. We are potentially a few years away from OS X apps no longer being best-in-class for dev tooling. That should scare people who are long Apple, a group that presumably includes their management.
- Answerawake 7y ago
  What is the alternative to Apple? I don't see Linux being solid in a few years time (or ever really). I say this after trying Linux again every year in the hopes that this is the year it is solid. My anecdotal experience for this year is that the latest Ubuntu release had a problem where after performing a clean install and rebooting, the login screen will not allow me to enter the desktop. Turns out the desktop was crashing in the background because of a Nvidia driver. If they cannot even QA the login procedure with the default software then I don't have long term confidence. I will definitely try again in 2020 in the hopes that I am wrong. Windows is degrading as they add more cruft to the OS while ignoring fundamental flaws that have persisted for years. Basic things such as smooth mouse movement and dual monitor scaling still do not work correctly. Meanwhile I am bombarded with more and more cruft that steals focus from whatever I am doing.
  - frenchyatwork 7y ago
    Did you by a computer that came with Ubuntu? IIRC, Dell and a few smaller vendors sell these. I would imagine you could get some support from the computer vendor if the video card driver was that broken.
rgovostes 7y ago
> I’m just an indie developer trying to make good products. Apple should separate Rambo's software development from his reporting rather than retaliate against him, if that is indeed what is happening, but it is a little disingenuous for him to make the above claim. Rambo reverse engineers Apple products and publishes findings on 9to5Mac.com, in particular future product references that have slipped prematurely into releases. (To be clear I have no problem with this, but it likely violates the terms of the Apple Developer Agreement.) Recently, Rambo published an article where he got early access to Apple Arcade, which I think may have crossed a line: https://9to5mac.com/2019/08/17/apple-running-early-access-program-for-apple-arcade-heres-what-it-looks-like/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/08/17/apple-running-early-access-pr... In a later post from a collaborating author, they described how they gained access to the unannounced service through their own Apple account, rather than a leak from an employee, which could easily be argued was unauthorized access.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  I imagine he crossed some terms of service with obvious legal clarity... so, I guess I’m not sure Apple should separate his “official” and “unofficial” actions. IDK. Maybe I’m just big into personal responsibility and knowing that you shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds you. He did a thing, and now pays a price. I guess I don’t see a lot of gray area. Could you make the argument that Apple’s walled garden has issues, sure. But this guy clearly broke his contract so why would he or I be surprised when he was kicked out?
  - deogeo 7y ago
    Lets not conflate 'personal responsibility' with slavishly obeying terms of one-sided contracts. Neither is it the 'hand that feeds you'. 'The hand that has placed itself in control of your market' is more apt.
  - izacus 7y ago
    I know you didn't think it through directly, but you're now basically supporting the ability of a multi-billionare corporation to financially attack a developer and disable their device over criticism. Just how chilling effect is that? Not being able to criticise and freely talk about a corporation and its product due to fear of having your company financially destroyed or even your personal Apple ID killed over saying something bad over a corporate product. Are you sure you're defending that?
chmaynard 7y ago
Try sending an email to devprograms@apple.com and ask for an explanation.
Apocryphon 7y ago
Customer service via Hacker News. It's terrible these huge faceless corporations have backed us into this corner, but that's the nature of the power asymmetry. Let's hope we can signal-boost this until Apple is forced to acknowledge their failings.
mikece 7y ago
Notwithstanding that this developer was also a journalist using his access to beta software to learn about upcoming announcements before Apple wanted them announced, I have to wonder how suspending his developer account without any explanation isn’t grounds for a breach of contract lawsuit. If they told him right from the start that he was booted for violating NDA or even just for pissing off their marketing team that would be fine... but suspending and then ghosting him? Apple needs to pay and pay big for that.
- richardwhiuk 7y ago
  The Apple Developer Agreement states: > Your rights under this license to use and access the Content will terminate automatically without notice from Apple if you fail to comply with any of these provisions. They also state that it's against the agreement to share pre-released information. There's absolutely no grounds for someone to complain here.
hnarn 7y ago
It feels like I'm living in a bizarre world where this event is being parsed by so many people as "Apple can't lock any account they want, force them to apologize!", when what people should be saying is "Wow, monolithic software pipelines controlled by a corporation sure are bad and this is just one of many entirely predictable consequences"
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  To be fair, having a contract terminated by violating it isn't really the result of "monolithic software pipelines controlled by a corporation".
  - hnarn 7y ago
    I feel like you're missing the point. A "contract" with a company shouldn't be at the center of the question of whether you can develop software for a specific platform or not to begin with. It feels like this was understood and controversial only ten years ago, while nowadays people all over the Internet will argue with you to defend Mordors god-given right to rule over every single behavior in the world's most popular smart phone. It's quite worrying to be honest, of this continues people won't know there even was a debate about net neutrality and software freedom a few decades from now.
    - slavik81 7y ago
      It reminds me of something out of The Right to Read. > Programmers still needed debugging tools, of course, but debugger vendors in 2047 distributed numbered copies only, and only to officially licensed and bonded programmers. The debugger Dan used in software class was kept behind a special firewall so that it could be used only for class exercises.
  - sanxiyn 7y ago
    On the other hand, after terminating the contract, saying "you would be getting an e-mail with instructions to get your access restored", without doing so, is pretty weird. I mean, lying is not illegal, but still.
JohnFen 7y ago
The risk of this sort of thing is why I have never, and will never, develop for platforms that I need a "developer account" or the approval of the company for. It's far too dangerous to allow any company to be in a position where they can flip a switch (intentionally or not) and turn your business off.
- nixpulvis 7y ago
  Exactly! Especially for developers of cross platform software, it's bad enough having to emulate or find hardware, now what they need a plethora of developer accounts too?
MattP86 7y ago
Do you have an app related to vaping?
gwbennett 7y ago
If Apple believes Rambo violated the Developer Agreement, why not let him know? Why not give him a warning? Both Google and Facebook recently violated Apple's Enterprise Developer Agreement, had their accounts locked, and within 48 hours their accounts were reinstated after they were allowed to correct the issues. Same has happened over the years to other companies. If Apple did lock his account because of some violations(s), why not give him the same opportunity?
- pg_is_a_butt 7y ago
  Because Apple didn't sign a contract with him, he signed a contract with Apple.
saagarjha 7y ago
A number of commenters have mentioned that Rambo has a day job where he publishes leaks and other internal details of upcoming Apple releases. I'm not sure why he hasn't mentioned this in the article, but if it is related, it's still not the best look for Apple. The only time I can think of where the company has done something like this was banning Charlie Miller from the program, for publishing an app that allowed remote code execution to the App Store and then doing a presentation about it. In this case, Rambo has certainly done things which would violate the developer program NDA–but every news outlet that covers Apple does this by posting images of NDA'd prereleases, including developers and journalists that Apple has a great relationship with. It might be that Apple thinks it is wrong and/or illegal to look at their unreleased intellectual property (as Rambo has had access to internal-only builds presumably leaked to him by engineers) but silently banning him from his developer account is obviously not the correct way to deal with this, either. And finally, if Apple honestly thinks that this would prevent leaks: they're just wrong. Even on the software side, I can think of a handful of ways that would work just as well at finding prerelease information, completely legally, even without violating my developer NDA. The only thing stopping me is the fact that I don't spend time doing this professionally.
repiret 7y ago
Since day one of the app store, there has been a persistent stream of complaints of terrible customer service to developers. Apps being rejected for reasons nobody can figure out, app reviews taking an egregiously long time, account lockouts like this. On the one hand, when a developer account is only $99/yr and there is a strong incentive for some developers to try to get away with things, what choice do you have but to provide only automated service portals and call center employees who are powerless to fix any problem not anticipated by their scripts. But on the other hand, there are lots of people making big bucks developing apps, and who are genuinely trying to follow the rules (even if they think some of them are dumb). Apple should have an option for these people to pay extra for real customer service. If I made my living as a solo app developer, I wouldn't hesitate to pay any 4-figure annual price if in exchange I got siloed into a small dedicated support team so that my apps were always reviewed by one of a small number of people in order to get more consistent rejections, and reviewed in a timely manner. And I got an account manager I could call up and get weird problems like this resolved the same day - even if the resolution was sometimes unsatisfying: like being told that Apple decided Electron apps use private APIs and will all be denied until Electron fixes it, or being told that I violated the terms of my agreement by publishing details of unreleased products, and so my account has been irrevocably locked. If I were a moderate sized company, there are many 5-figure annual prices I would pay for the same. For many app developers, there's real money on the line. Apple should charge them real money and give them real support.
- helpPeople 7y ago
  I have refused as well. My users and I lose by buying Apple products. I weep that Apple has entrenched themselves into the tech ecosystem. They take advantage of the least educated users fear and outright lie about security and product quality. Is there anything we can do?
  - IAmEveryone 7y ago
    > They take advantage of the least educated users If you actually want to convince people, it might help not to start from the assumption of them being stupid. Walk around at a physics conference, Google office, Harvard or MIT campus, and you'll see more MacBooks than any other brand. The notion of these users universally being clueless defies logic.
hootbootscoot 7y ago
Walled dictatorship treats dissident poorly. Cue "but he violated EULA" chatter. Facts that remain: walled dictatorship has crumbling infrastructure, openly spits upon it's Stockholm-syndrome-afflicted subjects, and we all saw this coming from approx 1.7km away...
- hu3 7y ago
  Indeed. The double standard is palpable. When Apple fucks up: "but it's legal, who cares if it's wrong" When other FAANG fucks up: "but it's wrong, who cares if it's legal"
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mikhailt 7y ago
I know this won't be a popular opinion but this kind of behavior is why I'm leaning toward some of the ideas that big companies need to be broken up with firewalls between them. Just because he leaked some details about stuff from their hardware/software divisions (violating NDA) does not mean he deserves to be treated like this and be locked out of the App Store entirely like this. I understand there has to be some incentives not to break NDAs but given that app stores are becoming such a massive part of our lives, we cannot shadow-ban people just because the platform owners are not happy.
3bodyProblem 7y ago
I don't like the walled in gardens that google and apple have created don't get me wrong. But at the same time the author made a life choice to be an ios developer. Something I don't understand, while you know that this job is putting your food on your plate. Why also burn bridges with gray area stuff like reverse engineering nda stuff? If it's your hobby, sure, but you'r using it to have an income. It's a bit naive to think you can get away with it. Two wrong definitely doesn't make a right, but this situation has a scent of surprised pikachu to it. Don't think going on the offense like this will help his case either. Perhaps it's time to overthink if he wants to stay a developer in the IOS ecosystem.
CodeSheikh 7y ago
This guys wrote a ranty article without telling/hinting/speculating us what went wrong? I am sorry but I feel like you have wasted our time by making us reading your article and as a reader and a supporter of indie dev community I am unable to conclude if Apple has done any wrongdoing here.
fouric 7y ago
I wonder how long Rambo will have to wait for his account to get unlocked, relative to when this story hits the front page. When it happens, everyone should act like it didn't, because any corporation that fixes issues only after they become known at a large scale isn't operating in the best interests of the user anyway.
backtoyoujim 7y ago
It has always seemed weird to me to pay someone yearly to write software for their OS. Having to pay for the tools that ban you reminds me of a digital (urban legend?) "bullet fee" like that Mao supposedly levied to the families of executed prisoners.
kd3 7y ago
The fundamental mistake this guy made was trusting Apple and developing for their platforms. Let us all take note and learn from his mistake.
fjabre 7y ago
Ah the joys of being subjected to a dictator's whim. Apple can do as it wants when it wants for any reason it wants to regarding that app you may have poured a year of your life into. Our profitable SaaS web app has 1000s of paying users and those apps also run very well on mobile safari. We made a decision a long time ago as a company never to invest in iOS because of Apple's dictator like policies. We may develop a simple tool on iOS but we will never put our flagship apps there. Apple has made it clear from the beginning that they will not be fair in their dealings with devs and in fact the opposite, they are actively hostile against app devs in many cases such as this one without being accountable to them. It's Apple's way or the highway. Not only do we have the privilege of paying Apple to develop on their platform (that devs make more valuable to consumers) but we also have the privilege of paying Apple a 30% cut on virtual goods. I still don't understand why so many devs have given into this. But it probably has something to do with Apple's monopolistic power.
- pier25 7y ago
  Totally agree. MacOS dev is also going down the hill considering all the uncertainity about developing for the platform (deprecations, transitions to new SDKs and language, etc). For example it would seem ObjC and Cocoa will be abandoned one day. When? In 2 years? 5 years? When will OpenGL not be distributed with macOS? It would seem the safe bet is switching to SwiftUI for macOS but as of today you lose support for most macOS users. Plus SwiftUI is not ready for prime time yet from all the complaints I've read. I was planning on working on a macOS exclusive product but for many reasons (including some of the points you have mentioned) this doesn't seem a wise decision at all.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Considering how long it took to remove Carbon, I wouldn't expect Cocoa to go away any time within the next decade.
    - pier25 7y ago
      I agree, but do you know for sure? Nobody knows.
thiht 7y ago
Just stop developing for Apple platforms, seriously. This is what happens when you encourage their walled garden.
kemayo 7y ago
Lots of people saying that Apple doesn't owe him any explanation, and that telling people why they're banned is just going to prompt "yes, but..." arguments in response. I've dealt with humans, so I'm sympathetic to that... and I've also been caught up by false-positives, so I can see how it can go horribly wrong. I feel that what's being missed here is that Apple, per Rambo, explicitly said they'd get back in touch with him and tell him what's going on: > Developer support then called me, and I gave my previous case number to a nice person on the other end of the phone, who explained that my case had been escalated to a supervisor, who then escalated it to their supervisor, and that I would hear back from them “soon”. This was in mid September. In early October, I called again and was told I would receive an e-mail explaining the situation, I haven’t. Regardless of whether Apple should or should not, in the abstract, tell him what's happening... they've said they will, and they're messing up by not doing so. (Though, yes, he's being quite disingenuous by not even alluding in the story to the way he almost-certainly has violated their developer agreement.)
- jjtheblunt 7y ago
  Your last sentence, in parentheses (yay, Lisp!), is what I was thinking. The person seems to be flagrantly defaming Apple, in tantrum fashion, because the person violated Apple rules and got scolded?
  - jachee 7y ago
    That's the thing... he doesn't know why he's locked out. They haven't "scolded" him or told him that he violated Apple rules. They simply locked him out and are giving him the silent treatment.
    - jjtheblunt 7y ago
      oh, that's more dysfunctional! yikes.
helpPeople 7y ago
Apple deleted apps for China, gets hacked by the FBI, locks out developers, sells broken keyboards, overcharges for hardware, uses proprietary software. Evil company, their fanatics cling to the "privacy" marketing.
logfromblammo 7y ago
This is a great argument for union-like organization of independent Apple-ecosystem developers. If one member gets banned in an arbitrary and capricious manner, the others can strike, by pulling their programs from the App Store. If hitting the front page of HN is really the best way to get a substantial response from Apple after a drawn-out runaround, that cries out for a counterweight organization to Apple that can punch back and actually make it hurt.
Cypher72 7y ago
Windows.
Cypher72 7y ago
Windows anyone?
ddingus 7y ago
Surely people like this have a non dev friend who can lend a hand...
kuon 7y ago
It took me a while to understand an accept how closed and proprietary the Apple ecosystem is. I don't mean it is bad or good, but it is their platform, their product and they control it fully. There is no point in saying "it's not fair, they locked me out...", they OWN the platform, they can do whatever they want with it. There is also no point is trying to work around it, hackintosh, vm, whatever, I did it and it's just pain. If you don't agree with how Apple does things (I don't), then walk away. It took me a long time, but I am now fully free of the Apple ecosystem and I develop for other platforms. What I am saying is that we cannot have it all, we cannot have a well funded platform, with marketing done for us, distribution done for us... and be fully free (as in freedom). This is why it is important to think things properly when using proprietary technologies, they are more polished, have support, but have a freedom cost. We should not complain about google, apple... closing accounts, we should create new open alternatives, for everything. Of course it's not easy, it's hard, way harder than complaining. For this, they are multiple tools, technical ones (writing open source stuff), but also political and legal ones (like GPL).
iamaelephant 7y ago
I mean yeah. If you play with tigers you get bit. Stop contributing the walled gardens, and definitely don't rely on them for your income. A harsh lesson learned.
notadoc 7y ago
Public shaming a corporation often reverses course, fortunately for this particular developer they enough exposure to stir that up.
mzs 7y ago
I didn't have to agree to anything to develop for my handspring, just used gcc. I did have to click some agreement for the emulator ROMs but those weren't strictly necessary either. There weren't any recurring charges, app review process, or forbidden APIs either. I didn't have to buy a computer from handspring or palm and nobody could stop me or the authors that wrote books. I miss those days.
ok_coo 7y ago
This is why you develop for the web.

1019 points by rwc 7y ago

Another case how current tech giants build huge platform with no oversight exploiting their monopoly power. This developer should be able to appeal Apple decision for nominal fee (e.g. $100). There should be independent committee that could judge timely his case. If committee found developer makes invalid claim, then he loses fee. If Apple is found, it should be forced to change decision and pay for the committee cost plus refund $100 to developer. Being kicked out of platform such as Google, Facebook, Apple is a death penalty for many companies. Yet there is no equivalent of judicial system that works well enough in internet era.

jakozaur 7y ago
Judicial, Execution and Lawmaker branches should be separate in $10Bln+ tech platforms play: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers

sanxiyn 7y ago

> Apple always says that "running to the press doesn't help" This is a bald faced lie, so you must ignore it.

FactolSarin 7y ago
In fact, it's sometimes the only way to get help
draw_down 7y ago
I dunno if it’s a lie, maybe they believe it, but certainly reality suggests the opposite.
tempguy9999 7y ago
Companies absolutely hate bad publicity. Also, what have you got to lose at this point. Good luck.
xhruso00 7y ago
As per ex-App Store employee it always HELPS. https://youtu.be/tJeEuxn9mug?t=836 https://youtu.be/tJeEuxn9mug?t=836
- judge2020 7y ago
  Better timestamp: https://youtu.be/tJeEuxn9mug?t=1840 https://youtu.be/tJeEuxn9mug?t=1840
lm28469 7y ago
Is it ? https://web.archive.org/web/20141226094343/https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://web.archive.org/web/20141226094343/https://developer...
Despegar 7y ago
It didn't seem to help the Dash developer. As far as I know, he never got his developer account back. https://mjtsai.com/blog/2016/10/10/apple-and-kapeli-respond/ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2016/10/10/apple-and-kapeli-respond/
- Operyl 7y ago
  Seems it’s back though: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dash-offline-api-docs/id1239167694 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dash-offline-api-docs/id123916...

blisterpeanuts 7y ago

What a strange predicament. Perhaps a naive question, but is it possible to create a new developer's account and then request a transfer of your apps? Given that you have the sources & password to old account etc.

saagarjha 7y ago
I don’t think that would work if you can’t log into one of the accounts.
atonse 7y ago
You have to initiate the transfer from the account that owns the apps.
george_perez 7y ago
You could, but they would probably not be able to get to the page to transfer ownership to another Apple ID because they'll probably get sent to the contact form dead-end.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

djohnston 7y ago

Brutal, the frustration is palpable. Forgive my mobile engineering ignorance, but does developing on Android pose similar risks or is control less centralized to Google?

non-entity 7y ago
I recall seeing a few stories on here in the past few months regarding people's apps disappearing from Google Play and Google's support providing no real "support".
- CtrlAltT5wpm 7y ago
  Would you happen to have a link? I'm going through the same thing, and support is no help.
  - non-entity 7y ago
    I believe this was the most recent I read. https://medium.com/@tokata/how-google-play-terminated-a-developer-for-no-reason-e4d760e9f472 https://medium.com/@tokata/how-google-play-terminated-a-deve...
    - CtrlAltT5wpm 7y ago
      The situation in the linked article is way different than what's happening to me. In any case, I appreciate the response and link.
ngngngng 7y ago
It's worse on android. You'll lose access to every google account you have (email, photos, drive) and if you circumvent by creating a new account and are caught then you will be banned again as well as all of the accounts that are associated with the new account. This could potentially destroy an entire business if they hire a banned individual and get their entire company banned because of it.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

lameiam23 7y ago

tear

kiba 7y ago

One wonder how those problems managed to continuously get ignored as issues get escalated up the ladder.

ben509 7y ago
Probably a ticket in a queue that's languishing as the easy tickets are handled to make stats look good. Also, he doesn't mention that he's leaked stuff in the past, so it may be that various managers are reluctant to be the one to put in writing what they cancelled him for.

dewey 7y ago

Because it's not mentioned in the article but could be hint on why this happened (could also be entirely irrelevant). It's the guy who brought us a bunch of early iOS 13 leaks among other things: https://www.hackingwithswift.com/articles/164/interview-guilherme-rambo https://www.hackingwithswift.com/articles/164/interview-guil...

SpyKiIIer 7y ago
That seems most likely...
ceejayoz 7y ago
> And he’s successful: he leaked marketing images for Apple Watch Series 4, he found iPhone X glyphs showing the notch, and more. Presumably in violation of the developer program's NDA.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > he leaked marketing images for Apple Watch Series 4 I don’t think this specific one has anything to do with the NDA.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    I don't think that really changes anything. That article clearly indicates he sourced some information from the developer program betas, which would be a violation of the NDA when publicized.
    - romaaeterna 7y ago
      Then Apple can respond in an above-board way to such a violation. If the want to conduct their response through secret channels, in a harassing way, they shouldn't look to the courts to support their NDA rights on this. The same way that you can't stop paying rent to your landlord because he hasn't fixed your sink, Apple can't harass someone because they believe he is in violation of a contract.

yig 7y ago

This developer is also a journalist who has written many scoops on Apple's upcoming hardware and software: https://9to5mac.com/author/guirambobr/ https://9to5mac.com/author/guirambobr/ This may be why Apple is upset. Is it justified?

sanxiyn 7y ago
If this is it, Apple should say so, preferably with reference to Apple Developer Program Terms and Conditions. Running a Kafka trap instead is rather rude.

judge2020 7y ago

Slightly unrelated, but in the Developer portal, you can only create 5 of the "Developer ID Application" certificates per developer team. When you want to generate another one past 5, there is no option to revoke old certificates nor is there an option to ask for an increase. I had to contact developer support asking them to revoke the old ones so that I could generate a new one (since the past keys had been lost to MacOS wipes); but it took over two months between Dev support asking the product security team for assistance, and the Product Security team not responding, before they finally made an exception and allowed my account to generate one more certificate. I realize I should have backed up the previous keys (as I have done for this most recent one), but I find it odd you can't revoke existing certificates.

GordonS 7y ago
There is even a limit with the Apple Enterprise Developer program, which we had problems with just the other day. IIRC, the limit was also only 5 - it seemed arbitrarily low.

rocky1138 7y ago

We need an open phone. Today.

mrec 7y ago
AIUI the Librem 5 is already shipping.
- mattl 7y ago
  I don't think so. The first batch went to staff.

technofiend 7y ago

Tangential at best but this is why I literally created a new user ID yesterday solely for Google's Stadia. They have a tendency to lower the ban hammer with little discretion and I'm quite sure sooner or later griefers will figure out how to allege cheating complaints that result in account closure. I'd rather not lose my real Google account to someone's online indigestion.

reaperducer 7y ago
this is why I literally created a new user ID yesterday solely for Google's Stadia Not enough. Google's ban hammer can hit not only an allegedly infringing account, but also any account it suspects is even related to that account. Share an IP address? Log in from the same place regularly? Machine has cookies for both? It's all gone.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  Scary. Presumably you have some real world examples of this?
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    I haven't experienced it personally because I limit my exposure to Google as much as I can. But it's been discussed on HN a number of times.
- technofiend 7y ago
  Meh. My google account is really just getting forwarded e-mails from another provider. If they banned every account I own I'd have to switch to Apple and restore my contacts from backup I use to feed my voip provider and photos from backblaze. It would be annoying but not devastating. However you can bet I'd raise holy hell on social media to try and undo it since that seems excessive.

liquidise 7y ago

Apple's relationship with developers has been a strange one for some time. It shows up in all kinds of ways, from their app development ecosystem to decisions on their hardware. I used to think the swap to a Unix-based OS was a fundamental shift to move in the developer direction. During the days of XServe i think that might have been true. These days though it more like the development community is some noisy group meant to be ignored. I would argue that the return of a physical Escape key is the only overtly pro-developer move from Apple in the last couple of years. Issues like the OP describes resonate well here because many of us have experienced Apple's tomfoolery in 1st or 2nd hand ways, too. It is horrible to have your hard work, creative platform and livelihood torn from under you without explanation or for what may feel like arbitrary reasons. If HN comment sections are early indicators, devs are moving on. We are potentially a few years away from OS X apps no longer being best-in-class for dev tooling. That should scare people who are long Apple, a group that presumably includes their management.

Answerawake 7y ago
What is the alternative to Apple? I don't see Linux being solid in a few years time (or ever really). I say this after trying Linux again every year in the hopes that this is the year it is solid. My anecdotal experience for this year is that the latest Ubuntu release had a problem where after performing a clean install and rebooting, the login screen will not allow me to enter the desktop. Turns out the desktop was crashing in the background because of a Nvidia driver. If they cannot even QA the login procedure with the default software then I don't have long term confidence. I will definitely try again in 2020 in the hopes that I am wrong. Windows is degrading as they add more cruft to the OS while ignoring fundamental flaws that have persisted for years. Basic things such as smooth mouse movement and dual monitor scaling still do not work correctly. Meanwhile I am bombarded with more and more cruft that steals focus from whatever I am doing.
- frenchyatwork 7y ago
  Did you by a computer that came with Ubuntu? IIRC, Dell and a few smaller vendors sell these. I would imagine you could get some support from the computer vendor if the video card driver was that broken.

rgovostes 7y ago

> I’m just an indie developer trying to make good products. Apple should separate Rambo's software development from his reporting rather than retaliate against him, if that is indeed what is happening, but it is a little disingenuous for him to make the above claim. Rambo reverse engineers Apple products and publishes findings on 9to5Mac.com, in particular future product references that have slipped prematurely into releases. (To be clear I have no problem with this, but it likely violates the terms of the Apple Developer Agreement.) Recently, Rambo published an article where he got early access to Apple Arcade, which I think may have crossed a line: https://9to5mac.com/2019/08/17/apple-running-early-access-program-for-apple-arcade-heres-what-it-looks-like/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/08/17/apple-running-early-access-pr... In a later post from a collaborating author, they described how they gained access to the unannounced service through their own Apple account, rather than a leak from an employee, which could easily be argued was unauthorized access.

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
I imagine he crossed some terms of service with obvious legal clarity... so, I guess I’m not sure Apple should separate his “official” and “unofficial” actions. IDK. Maybe I’m just big into personal responsibility and knowing that you shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds you. He did a thing, and now pays a price. I guess I don’t see a lot of gray area. Could you make the argument that Apple’s walled garden has issues, sure. But this guy clearly broke his contract so why would he or I be surprised when he was kicked out?
- deogeo 7y ago
  Lets not conflate 'personal responsibility' with slavishly obeying terms of one-sided contracts. Neither is it the 'hand that feeds you'. 'The hand that has placed itself in control of your market' is more apt.
- izacus 7y ago
  I know you didn't think it through directly, but you're now basically supporting the ability of a multi-billionare corporation to financially attack a developer and disable their device over criticism. Just how chilling effect is that? Not being able to criticise and freely talk about a corporation and its product due to fear of having your company financially destroyed or even your personal Apple ID killed over saying something bad over a corporate product. Are you sure you're defending that?

chmaynard 7y ago

Try sending an email to devprograms@apple.com and ask for an explanation.

Apocryphon 7y ago

Customer service via Hacker News. It's terrible these huge faceless corporations have backed us into this corner, but that's the nature of the power asymmetry. Let's hope we can signal-boost this until Apple is forced to acknowledge their failings.

mikece 7y ago

Notwithstanding that this developer was also a journalist using his access to beta software to learn about upcoming announcements before Apple wanted them announced, I have to wonder how suspending his developer account without any explanation isn’t grounds for a breach of contract lawsuit. If they told him right from the start that he was booted for violating NDA or even just for pissing off their marketing team that would be fine... but suspending and then ghosting him? Apple needs to pay and pay big for that.

richardwhiuk 7y ago
The Apple Developer Agreement states: > Your rights under this license to use and access the Content will terminate automatically without notice from Apple if you fail to comply with any of these provisions. They also state that it's against the agreement to share pre-released information. There's absolutely no grounds for someone to complain here.

hnarn 7y ago

It feels like I'm living in a bizarre world where this event is being parsed by so many people as "Apple can't lock any account they want, force them to apologize!", when what people should be saying is "Wow, monolithic software pipelines controlled by a corporation sure are bad and this is just one of many entirely predictable consequences"

SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
To be fair, having a contract terminated by violating it isn't really the result of "monolithic software pipelines controlled by a corporation".
- hnarn 7y ago
  I feel like you're missing the point. A "contract" with a company shouldn't be at the center of the question of whether you can develop software for a specific platform or not to begin with. It feels like this was understood and controversial only ten years ago, while nowadays people all over the Internet will argue with you to defend Mordors god-given right to rule over every single behavior in the world's most popular smart phone. It's quite worrying to be honest, of this continues people won't know there even was a debate about net neutrality and software freedom a few decades from now.
  - slavik81 7y ago
    It reminds me of something out of The Right to Read. > Programmers still needed debugging tools, of course, but debugger vendors in 2047 distributed numbered copies only, and only to officially licensed and bonded programmers. The debugger Dan used in software class was kept behind a special firewall so that it could be used only for class exercises.
- sanxiyn 7y ago
  On the other hand, after terminating the contract, saying "you would be getting an e-mail with instructions to get your access restored", without doing so, is pretty weird. I mean, lying is not illegal, but still.

JohnFen 7y ago

The risk of this sort of thing is why I have never, and will never, develop for platforms that I need a "developer account" or the approval of the company for. It's far too dangerous to allow any company to be in a position where they can flip a switch (intentionally or not) and turn your business off.

nixpulvis 7y ago
Exactly! Especially for developers of cross platform software, it's bad enough having to emulate or find hardware, now what they need a plethora of developer accounts too?

MattP86 7y ago

Do you have an app related to vaping?

gwbennett 7y ago

If Apple believes Rambo violated the Developer Agreement, why not let him know? Why not give him a warning? Both Google and Facebook recently violated Apple's Enterprise Developer Agreement, had their accounts locked, and within 48 hours their accounts were reinstated after they were allowed to correct the issues. Same has happened over the years to other companies. If Apple did lock his account because of some violations(s), why not give him the same opportunity?

pg_is_a_butt 7y ago
Because Apple didn't sign a contract with him, he signed a contract with Apple.

saagarjha 7y ago

A number of commenters have mentioned that Rambo has a day job where he publishes leaks and other internal details of upcoming Apple releases. I'm not sure why he hasn't mentioned this in the article, but if it is related, it's still not the best look for Apple. The only time I can think of where the company has done something like this was banning Charlie Miller from the program, for publishing an app that allowed remote code execution to the App Store and then doing a presentation about it. In this case, Rambo has certainly done things which would violate the developer program NDA–but every news outlet that covers Apple does this by posting images of NDA'd prereleases, including developers and journalists that Apple has a great relationship with. It might be that Apple thinks it is wrong and/or illegal to look at their unreleased intellectual property (as Rambo has had access to internal-only builds presumably leaked to him by engineers) but silently banning him from his developer account is obviously not the correct way to deal with this, either. And finally, if Apple honestly thinks that this would prevent leaks: they're just wrong. Even on the software side, I can think of a handful of ways that would work just as well at finding prerelease information, completely legally, even without violating my developer NDA. The only thing stopping me is the fact that I don't spend time doing this professionally.

repiret 7y ago

Since day one of the app store, there has been a persistent stream of complaints of terrible customer service to developers. Apps being rejected for reasons nobody can figure out, app reviews taking an egregiously long time, account lockouts like this. On the one hand, when a developer account is only $99/yr and there is a strong incentive for some developers to try to get away with things, what choice do you have but to provide only automated service portals and call center employees who are powerless to fix any problem not anticipated by their scripts. But on the other hand, there are lots of people making big bucks developing apps, and who are genuinely trying to follow the rules (even if they think some of them are dumb). Apple should have an option for these people to pay extra for real customer service. If I made my living as a solo app developer, I wouldn't hesitate to pay any 4-figure annual price if in exchange I got siloed into a small dedicated support team so that my apps were always reviewed by one of a small number of people in order to get more consistent rejections, and reviewed in a timely manner. And I got an account manager I could call up and get weird problems like this resolved the same day - even if the resolution was sometimes unsatisfying: like being told that Apple decided Electron apps use private APIs and will all be denied until Electron fixes it, or being told that I violated the terms of my agreement by publishing details of unreleased products, and so my account has been irrevocably locked. If I were a moderate sized company, there are many 5-figure annual prices I would pay for the same. For many app developers, there's real money on the line. Apple should charge them real money and give them real support.

helpPeople 7y ago
I have refused as well. My users and I lose by buying Apple products. I weep that Apple has entrenched themselves into the tech ecosystem. They take advantage of the least educated users fear and outright lie about security and product quality. Is there anything we can do?
- IAmEveryone 7y ago
  > They take advantage of the least educated users If you actually want to convince people, it might help not to start from the assumption of them being stupid. Walk around at a physics conference, Google office, Harvard or MIT campus, and you'll see more MacBooks than any other brand. The notion of these users universally being clueless defies logic.

hootbootscoot 7y ago

Walled dictatorship treats dissident poorly. Cue "but he violated EULA" chatter. Facts that remain: walled dictatorship has crumbling infrastructure, openly spits upon it's Stockholm-syndrome-afflicted subjects, and we all saw this coming from approx 1.7km away...

hu3 7y ago
Indeed. The double standard is palpable. When Apple fucks up: "but it's legal, who cares if it's wrong" When other FAANG fucks up: "but it's wrong, who cares if it's legal"

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mikhailt 7y ago

I know this won't be a popular opinion but this kind of behavior is why I'm leaning toward some of the ideas that big companies need to be broken up with firewalls between them. Just because he leaked some details about stuff from their hardware/software divisions (violating NDA) does not mean he deserves to be treated like this and be locked out of the App Store entirely like this. I understand there has to be some incentives not to break NDAs but given that app stores are becoming such a massive part of our lives, we cannot shadow-ban people just because the platform owners are not happy.

3bodyProblem 7y ago

I don't like the walled in gardens that google and apple have created don't get me wrong. But at the same time the author made a life choice to be an ios developer. Something I don't understand, while you know that this job is putting your food on your plate. Why also burn bridges with gray area stuff like reverse engineering nda stuff? If it's your hobby, sure, but you'r using it to have an income. It's a bit naive to think you can get away with it. Two wrong definitely doesn't make a right, but this situation has a scent of surprised pikachu to it. Don't think going on the offense like this will help his case either. Perhaps it's time to overthink if he wants to stay a developer in the IOS ecosystem.

CodeSheikh 7y ago

This guys wrote a ranty article without telling/hinting/speculating us what went wrong? I am sorry but I feel like you have wasted our time by making us reading your article and as a reader and a supporter of indie dev community I am unable to conclude if Apple has done any wrongdoing here.

fouric 7y ago

I wonder how long Rambo will have to wait for his account to get unlocked, relative to when this story hits the front page. When it happens, everyone should act like it didn't, because any corporation that fixes issues only after they become known at a large scale isn't operating in the best interests of the user anyway.

backtoyoujim 7y ago

It has always seemed weird to me to pay someone yearly to write software for their OS. Having to pay for the tools that ban you reminds me of a digital (urban legend?) "bullet fee" like that Mao supposedly levied to the families of executed prisoners.

kd3 7y ago

The fundamental mistake this guy made was trusting Apple and developing for their platforms. Let us all take note and learn from his mistake.

fjabre 7y ago

Ah the joys of being subjected to a dictator's whim. Apple can do as it wants when it wants for any reason it wants to regarding that app you may have poured a year of your life into. Our profitable SaaS web app has 1000s of paying users and those apps also run very well on mobile safari. We made a decision a long time ago as a company never to invest in iOS because of Apple's dictator like policies. We may develop a simple tool on iOS but we will never put our flagship apps there. Apple has made it clear from the beginning that they will not be fair in their dealings with devs and in fact the opposite, they are actively hostile against app devs in many cases such as this one without being accountable to them. It's Apple's way or the highway. Not only do we have the privilege of paying Apple to develop on their platform (that devs make more valuable to consumers) but we also have the privilege of paying Apple a 30% cut on virtual goods. I still don't understand why so many devs have given into this. But it probably has something to do with Apple's monopolistic power.

pier25 7y ago
Totally agree. MacOS dev is also going down the hill considering all the uncertainity about developing for the platform (deprecations, transitions to new SDKs and language, etc). For example it would seem ObjC and Cocoa will be abandoned one day. When? In 2 years? 5 years? When will OpenGL not be distributed with macOS? It would seem the safe bet is switching to SwiftUI for macOS but as of today you lose support for most macOS users. Plus SwiftUI is not ready for prime time yet from all the complaints I've read. I was planning on working on a macOS exclusive product but for many reasons (including some of the points you have mentioned) this doesn't seem a wise decision at all.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Considering how long it took to remove Carbon, I wouldn't expect Cocoa to go away any time within the next decade.
  - pier25 7y ago
    I agree, but do you know for sure? Nobody knows.

thiht 7y ago

Just stop developing for Apple platforms, seriously. This is what happens when you encourage their walled garden.

kemayo 7y ago

Lots of people saying that Apple doesn't owe him any explanation, and that telling people why they're banned is just going to prompt "yes, but..." arguments in response. I've dealt with humans, so I'm sympathetic to that... and I've also been caught up by false-positives, so I can see how it can go horribly wrong. I feel that what's being missed here is that Apple, per Rambo, explicitly said they'd get back in touch with him and tell him what's going on: > Developer support then called me, and I gave my previous case number to a nice person on the other end of the phone, who explained that my case had been escalated to a supervisor, who then escalated it to their supervisor, and that I would hear back from them “soon”. This was in mid September. In early October, I called again and was told I would receive an e-mail explaining the situation, I haven’t. Regardless of whether Apple should or should not, in the abstract, tell him what's happening... they've said they will, and they're messing up by not doing so. (Though, yes, he's being quite disingenuous by not even alluding in the story to the way he almost-certainly has violated their developer agreement.)

jjtheblunt 7y ago
Your last sentence, in parentheses (yay, Lisp!), is what I was thinking. The person seems to be flagrantly defaming Apple, in tantrum fashion, because the person violated Apple rules and got scolded?
- jachee 7y ago
  That's the thing... he doesn't know why he's locked out. They haven't "scolded" him or told him that he violated Apple rules. They simply locked him out and are giving him the silent treatment.
  - jjtheblunt 7y ago
    oh, that's more dysfunctional! yikes.

helpPeople 7y ago

Apple deleted apps for China, gets hacked by the FBI, locks out developers, sells broken keyboards, overcharges for hardware, uses proprietary software. Evil company, their fanatics cling to the "privacy" marketing.

logfromblammo 7y ago

This is a great argument for union-like organization of independent Apple-ecosystem developers. If one member gets banned in an arbitrary and capricious manner, the others can strike, by pulling their programs from the App Store. If hitting the front page of HN is really the best way to get a substantial response from Apple after a drawn-out runaround, that cries out for a counterweight organization to Apple that can punch back and actually make it hurt.

Cypher72 7y ago

Windows.

Cypher72 7y ago

Windows anyone?

ddingus 7y ago

Surely people like this have a non dev friend who can lend a hand...

kuon 7y ago

It took me a while to understand an accept how closed and proprietary the Apple ecosystem is. I don't mean it is bad or good, but it is their platform, their product and they control it fully. There is no point in saying "it's not fair, they locked me out...", they OWN the platform, they can do whatever they want with it. There is also no point is trying to work around it, hackintosh, vm, whatever, I did it and it's just pain. If you don't agree with how Apple does things (I don't), then walk away. It took me a long time, but I am now fully free of the Apple ecosystem and I develop for other platforms. What I am saying is that we cannot have it all, we cannot have a well funded platform, with marketing done for us, distribution done for us... and be fully free (as in freedom). This is why it is important to think things properly when using proprietary technologies, they are more polished, have support, but have a freedom cost. We should not complain about google, apple... closing accounts, we should create new open alternatives, for everything. Of course it's not easy, it's hard, way harder than complaining. For this, they are multiple tools, technical ones (writing open source stuff), but also political and legal ones (like GPL).

iamaelephant 7y ago

I mean yeah. If you play with tigers you get bit. Stop contributing the walled gardens, and definitely don't rely on them for your income. A harsh lesson learned.

notadoc 7y ago

Public shaming a corporation often reverses course, fortunately for this particular developer they enough exposure to stir that up.

mzs 7y ago

I didn't have to agree to anything to develop for my handspring, just used gcc. I did have to click some agreement for the emulator ROMs but those weren't strictly necessary either. There weren't any recurring charges, app review process, or forbidden APIs either. I didn't have to buy a computer from handspring or palm and nobody could stop me or the authors that wrote books. I miss those days.

ok_coo 7y ago

This is why you develop for the web.