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Internet in Iran gradually shuttting down due to protests
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- citilife 7y agoWhy are they increasing the price of gas (which triggered the protests)? My understanding is that they are largely embargoed, so shouldn't they have plenty of fuel around, given they are (or were) a major exporter?
- thg 7y agoApparently they want to use the additional revenue to help needy families. > "Many people in oil-producing Iran see cheap gasoline as a national right and price hike sparked worries about a further squeeze on living costs, despite assurances from the Iranian authorities that the revenue raised would be used to help needy families." Source: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-iran-fuel-protests/irans-fuel-protests-turn-political-state-media-idUKKBN1XQ0CI?il=0 https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-iran-fuel-protests/irans-f...
- whatshisface 7y ago>Apparently they want to use the additional revenue to help needy families. >despite assurances from the Iranian authorities that the revenue raised would be used to help needy families. I don't see how those two statements are connected at all. Smart people don't even trust statements coming from American politicians, and Iran is a second-world country.
- Filligree 7y ago> I don't see how those two statements are connected at all. Smart people don't even trust statements coming from American politicians, and Iran is a second-world country. It's not like every country that used to be under the USSR's umbrella has untrustworthy politicians. There tends to be more than average, yes, but that's true for the US as well. Actually, does that include Iran? I think you might mean they're a third-world country.
- the-dude 7y agoOriginal definition of 1st/2nd/3rd world countries was based on sphere of influence, not state of economy. 1st world : US 2nd world : USSR 3rd world : not aligned with either
- mcny 7y agoI wouldn't trust a government that shuts down Internet access in response to protests to do the right thing and help needy families who don't have a voice. If they do end up helping needy families, it will be at best to secure support for the regime but that's like a best case scenario imo. If they are increasing prices, I suspect they are violating the embargo and selling oil to other countries.
- couradical 7y agoWell, they may export crude, but without refinery capacity they are probably capped at the rate they can produce usable product.
- LeifCarrotson 7y agoAt $0.25/gallon, it's not a question of supply but processing and transportation. If barrels of 87 octane were magically floating in on the tide you could hardly make a profit at that price.
- vondur 7y agoAs far as I know, Iran has little gas refining capability, so they must purchase gas from abroad. With the continuing effects of the embargo it's tough for the government to subsidize the low gas price with less cash coming in.
- wayoutthere 7y agoThey actually have a pretty good amount, especially for the region. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_refineries#Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_refineries#Iran
- wayoutthere 7y agoIran is by far the most stable and wealthy country among its neighbors, which makes our ability to enforce sanctions on them pretty ineffective. Sure, we can mostly stem the flow of high tech from America and Europe from going in to Iran, but do you think anyone in the 7 countries that border Iran gives a fuck about enforcing US sanctions?
- FillardMillmore 7y agoThough I don't think it discredits your overall point, as far as I know, the US and Pakistan (which borders Iran) are allies and the US has given tens of billions in aid since 9/11. When you're getting that kind of a money from a foreign country, the tendency seems to be that you keep toeing the line that pleases the hand that feeds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan%E2%80%93United_States_relations#Alliance_with_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan%E2%80%93United_States...
- wayoutthere 7y agoPakistan is a frenemy at best. It's more of a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation left over from the cold war.
- Gustomaximus 7y agoLike OBL hiding in their country and the general assumption senior military leaders knew. I dont doubt Pakistan want to appear to toe the line for their dollars but beyond that I don't think there is a strong alliance to support US agenda.
- zozbot234 7y agoThey had a nice scam going for them though, you have to give them that. Get $$$ to keep "searching for OBL" somewhere in the wilderness, meanwhile they knew exactly where he was.
- adventured 7y ago> Iran is by far the most stable and wealthy country among its neighbors, which makes our ability to enforce sanctions on them pretty ineffective That's entirely false. US sanctions have crushed the Iranian economy, sending inflation skyrocketing and including slashing its oil exports by 85-90%. Iranian oil exports have gone from 2.7m barrels per day in April 2018 to an optimistic couple hundred thousand now. Reuters reported this Summer that oil exports collapsed to as low as 100,000 barrels per day. So you're saying the US doesn't have an ability to enforce sanctions? Here's a visual example of it in action (their production figures): https://i.imgur.com/0NotUaZ.png https://i.imgur.com/0NotUaZ.png The US can immediately crush Iran's most important economic segment via sanctions. In October the IMF forecast that Iran's economy would contract by 9.5% for 2019, one of the worst economic outcomes in Iran's modern history. The World Bank's figure came to a 8.7% contraction. The same IMF report says Iran is suffering 35% inflation. The Statistical Center for Iran says it's 47%. The riots going on in Iran say it's all broadly true. Iran is also not the most stable or wealthy nation among its neighbors. They're clearly no more wealthy or stable than Saudi Arabia or Turkey (both of which have their own issues). Turkey for example has a real economy not dependent on oil exports and a $10,000 GDP per capita. Iran's GDP per capita is below Iraq at $5,500. Read that again, Iran's economic output per capita is now below Iraq.
- Richard_East 7y agoThey spend a fortune on subsidises: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_subsidy_reform_plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_subsidy_reform_plan 15% of GDP! Totally sensible to wind this back and allow prices to operate under normal market conditions. 17% of this subsidised fuel is smuggled out of the country anyway.
- MrMorden 7y agoThe only surprise here would be that only 17% of the fuel is smuggled, but there's no way in hell it's that low. Perhaps 17% is smuggled by non-IRGC-connected entities.
- jammygit 7y agoBetter title: Iran government gradually shuts down internet in response to protests
- FillardMillmore 7y agoOne thing I wonder about in events like these: what is the larger priority of government in following through with these actions, stemming the free flow of information or mitigating/limiting the citizens' ability to resist and organize? I tend to think it's more the latter but both elements probably play a role. I must say that I appreciate the people who run Tor relays that help these people in autocratic/theocratic nations access information, despite the risks associated with being the 'exit node' for nefarious requests.
- morelisp 7y agoIt's not about Iran, but there was an interesting article / analysis called "How Censorship in China Allows Government Criticism but Silences Collective Expression" - you may guess from the title how it answers your question. https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-china-allows-government-criticism-silences-collective-expression https://gking.harvard.edu/publications/how-censorship-china-...
- sepent 7y agoI live in Iran and I am lucky enough to have a connected link right now, but this is the last link among the others I lost in the previous hours. I was wondering is there any stable solution like satellite internet or something without direct affiliation with government for people like me, desperate enough to ask questions like this.
- swiley 7y agoIf you’re ok with something slow there are dialup ISPs. Even slower and without encryption (although cryptographic auth is ok) is PSKmail.
- aaomidi 7y agoDialup ISPs won't work in Iran right now. Internet connectivity and international phone calls are managed by the govt.
- kick 7y agoIf you think you could organize people quickly enough, maybe a meshnet? Or if you can get your hands on a few high-powered radios, you can transfer bits through them, though slowly, and you'd require cooperation from others (or just use them to talk with other people, but that's probably not what you're looking for).
- dogma1138 7y agoConsidering IRGC counter intelligence is likely constantly monitoring for radio signals it’s probably not a good idea to do so. A mesh radio network could easily look like a cell of foreign tasked assets spying on the country especially if any of the peers would be near strategic POI’s. In a western country you might pay a fine after clearing up a misunderstanding even if does get you pulled out of your bed in the middle of the night. In Iran on the other hand your fate will likely be quite different...
- trevyn 7y ago
- naringas 7y agoIran's national bank, is as far as I know, not independent from Iran's government. Just like Bolivia's, Venezuela's, Cuba's, and North Korea's. Saddam's Iraq also used to be like that before w. bush waged war on them.
- nextstep 7y agoKind of like how the Federal Reserve is not independent from the US government?
- naringas 7y agono, as fas as I understand, these banks are directly part of their governments. Whereas a typical central bank is independent and autonomous.
- marcosdumay 7y agoIf by typical you mean just looking on developed economies, then "autonomous" holds. "Independent" is a rarity.
- dragonwriter 7y ago> Iran's national bank, is as far as I know, not independent from Iran's government. Just like Bolivia's, Venezuela's, Cuba's, and North Korea's. Neither is that of the US, where the Board of Governors is appointed and accountable in the same manner as, say, commissioners of the FCC.
- buboard 7y agoMakes you think if DARPA's "Internet" project succeeded or failed in making a resilient, attack-resistant network
- walrus01 7y agoThe Iranian government forces all ISPs in the country to singlehomed to and be downstream of DCI, the government run ASN. If you don't do this, you don't get an international transit connection, and men with guns come to take your routers and arrest you .
- PostOnce 7y agoIf Iran goes offline, all the connections that would have routed through it now route around it, so the internet is resilient. i.e. it's resilient for all of Iran's neighbors who will be unaffected.
- magicsmoke 7y agoThe network was designed to be resilient and continue existing even if the individual nodes are brittle. Iran taking their nodes offline doesn't destroy the entire internet.
- saagarjha 7y agoSo it's possible to eclipse part of the network.
- PostOnce 7y agoThat was the point (in the DARPA context of this thread) -- nuke takes out a city, network still functions and routes around it. So signals are still getting from SAC to DC or whatever.
- tanilama 7y agoNot that DARPA failed. New countermeasures will always emerge, you cant predict the future.
- 7y ago
- jackfoxy 7y agoCan a Farsi speaker please translate the chants of the protestors in the videos into English?
- emilsedgh 7y agoIf you mean this video [0] they are chanting: * Down with Dictator * Down with Rouhani (President) * Down with Khamenei (Supreme Leader) [0] https://twitter.com/Maryamtaban12/status/1195792928934944768 https://twitter.com/Maryamtaban12/status/1195792928934944768
- ur-whale 7y agoThis type of event should make us all concerned, not just because of the oppression people of Iran are being subjected to, but also because the exact same thing is happening in many places in the world, eg China, but even more importantly, because it could very easily happen to so-called "free" societies. The problem is that internet is not as decentralized as everyone seems to think. To wit: sites seized by the FBI have a very hard time getting back up, but that's far from the only example. A really "free" internet needs two things: 1) a decentralized, blockchain-based DNS. This is actually not hard technically, but it is hard to deploy when the incumbent DNS system is ingrained everywhere like a cancer. 2) a routing infrastructure where every participant offers global routes (a mesh network). This is technically harder, especially in less densely populated area (unless we build a secondary, tor-like internet on top of the existing one). The day this type of infrastructure (every user a router) comes alive, censorship will get much, much harder. Decentralize all teh things !
- zozbot234 7y ago> a decentralized, blockchain-based DNS Namecoin was one of the first uses of blockchain tech. It's even reasonably easy to "deploy" alongside DNS, since it just gives you an extra TLD.
- xiphias2 7y agoAt this point there are enough wifi tethering capable mobile phones all over the world to run a mostly decentralized internet. Also Lightning network is capable of sending messages, but the infrastructure is just being built. Without micropayments the incentive structures wouldn't be there to build the decentralized internet (which of course means mostly centralized in practice, but increased fees instead of disrupted network in case of government action). At the same time Lightning Network needs people to adopt Bitcoin, in which the adoption is about 10M people all over the world, which is in the 0.1% order. At about 2x / year growth, it will take about 6-10 years until it gets practical.
- DuskStar 7y ago> At this point there are enough wifi tethering capable mobile phones all over the world to run a mostly decentralized internet. What, are they supposed to make a mesh network? Because cell services are just as centralized.
- pdm55 7y agoProtests are about the increase in the price of petrol, a multi-faceted situation. Just one aspect is the money to be made from smuggling fuel: "According to foreign-based economist Mehrdad Seyed Asgari in an article on Radio Farda's Persian website, the price of one liter of gasoline in Iran is currently about 8 cents while the price in the destination of smuggled fuel in Turkey, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Pakistanis, Iraq, Afghanistan and Armenia is at least 1.23 US dollar. This means that every liter of smuggled fuel brings in a profit of more than a dollar. The astonishingly low gasoline price in Iran is because the government subsidizes more than 90 percent of the cost; just the opposite of what many other countries do when they heavily tax fuels to reduce consumption. The devaluation of the Iranian currency in the past one year has made gasoline at least three times cheaper in dollars. That has made smuggling even a more profitable venture." Another aspect is that the subsidised price of fuel benefits the upper-middle class: "Another problem is that this subsidy comes out of the country’s wealth but mainly benefits those who have a car and can afford to drive a lot. The richest 10 percent of the Iranian population benefits from the subsidy 11 times more than the poorest ten percent. In 2016, 43 percent of Iranian families had gasoline fuelled cars. The other 53 percent do not own a car, so they do not benefit from the gasoline subsidy. The shocking reality is that the richest urban families own at least one car while only one percent of the poorest rural families have a vehicle." If the aim of the price increase is to redistribute wealth, who is doing the protesting? (Facetiously, I suggest that it might be privileged youth who go cruising the streets at night.) https://en.radiofarda.com/a/iran-fuel-gasoline-smuggling-sanctions/29783028.html https://en.radiofarda.com/a/iran-fuel-gasoline-smuggling-san...
- yyyk 7y agoThe protests are too widespread to be classified as just a 'rich-people's thing'. The regime would not have bothered to suspend the internet if they were so limited. I guess the poor may pay less, but they can afford the hurt less too. In Chile, protesters have a slogan: “This protest is not about 30 pesos, but 30 years”. I think this is the case here. The Iranian economy never did very well, and limiting one of the few things the regime gave to the people was bound to lead to a reaction. That said, these types of protests usually produce little political effect.
- abtinf 7y agoThe current headline, "Internet in Iran gradually shuttting down due to protests" is a massive injustice against freedom seeking people. An accurate headline would be "Totalitarian Iranian Regime Shutting Down Internet".
- anticensor 7y agoHN guidelines say, use the original title, or choose a neutral one if no title used in the original.
- abtinf 7y agoThere is no original title. Which part of my proposed title is not objectively true?
- perlpimp 7y agothis is where Starlink will help ? That makes me think that some sort of P2P wireless sneaker net can be engineered, something along lines of the wireless app that was used during umbrella protests - FireChat.
- bad_alloc 7y agoWhen threatened a regime will jam the signal, track transmitters, make them illegal, throw people into torture prisons for posession and/or kill owners. It will make it harder for the regime but a cornered totalitarian will do everything to control this. Maybe they could include a "stealth mode" for passive receiving, but that brings a new bag of problems with it. I think the solution here is not more tech but killing the despots.
- teresa123 7y agoNow I cant get in touch with my freind see when hes coming back home
- teresa123 7y agoNo I cant get in touch with my freind see when hes coming home
- itsmeva 7y agoHey you guys, does anyone know if we still can call a friend in Iran to check on him or not? Did they shut down phones coming from outside too?
- hassancf 7y ago“ how tech #sanctions helped Iranian government to shut down the internet.” https://twitter.com/ammir/status/1196388376661970950?s=21 https://twitter.com/ammir/status/1196388376661970950?s=21