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This is the thing I find very disturbing. That an industry as highly regulated and essential to every day life as banking can pick and choose based on managemen
by geomark 7y ago
This is the thing I find very disturbing. That an industry as highly regulated and essential to every day life as banking can pick and choose based on management's moral choices.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- short_sells_poo 7y agoIt's not a moral choice. It's a case of the business is not worth the hassle. KYC rules mean the bank is on the hook if they are found to harbor ill gotten gains and the sex industry had a some troubles in the past, while not producing enough volume on an individual level to make it worthwhile for a bank to overlook things.
- derangedHorse 7y agoThat just seems like profiling at that point, since they’re basically rejecting service to an individual just because of their profession. Sure they might say that there may be a higher probability of a someone in the adult industry being involved in illegal activities, but is it fair to outright deny service on such a wide scale?
- wincy 7y agoProfiling isn't illegal unless it's profiling against a protected class, right? It's like how I can't get cheap life insurance because I took antidepressants like seven years ago during a rough patch in my life.
- em-bee 7y agoprofiling is illegal when the service is necessary to live. in germany for example, it is illegal to deny someone access to things like a phone line, electricity or water. (that is, even if you don't pay your bills, they are not allowed to turn of your service. instead, if they want the money, they have to sue you) i believe at this point, access to a bank account is also included in this. as things progress, more things will be added to the list. soon (if not already) internet access will be included.
- kortilla 7y agoThat’s not related to profiling.
- bryanrasmussen 7y agoso I think what you mean is that profiling is immoral if the service is necessary to live, and in Germany (and other progressive parts of the EU) it is also illegal. I'm pretty sure these banks doing the profiling were in the U.S
- noobermin 7y agoThe cop out for "protected classes" is one of the serious failures of the New Left in the US and past generation progressive attempts to wrangle with social issues. It's one of the reasons you have things like clamoring for representation in small dwindling influential places (the meme is "more trans women drone pilots") whilst ignoring systemic issues like how Flint, Michigan still doesn't have drinking water. I've made this argument before and made Americans (obviously) mad, but this cop out of protected classes allows you to actually discriminate against said classes, you just have to prove there is no malice in your heart, more or less. That is, you did not because they are black or not men, but because of the sanctioned reasons, then it's okay.
- raxxorrax 7y agoDefinitely a gigantic failure. Why not offer protection for everyone and treat them the same? Praise your literacy all you want, doesn't matter if the performance and strategies of political representatives are abysmal. And the concept of treating people equally seems to be beyond comprehension.
- Dylan16807 7y ago> Why not offer protection for everyone That is how protected classes are defined. Everyone is in multiple protected classes.
- 7y ago
- novalis78 7y agoThe bank secrecy act forces you to profile. That’s why Caitlin Long repeatedly pointed out [1] how it is most likely an unconstitutional law and needs to get challenged in court. But it creates a moat around banking and therefore has not been seriously challenged. [1] https://youtu.be/LQX0trzomxg https://youtu.be/LQX0trzomxg
- ocdtrekkie 7y agoNot just in the past. There's a current case going on about a major channel that Pornhub used to feature about performers being allegedly both lied to about where the footage would be available and raped. Very possibly what spurred PayPal to make this change.
- tux1968 7y agoThat sounds like something that should be handled by law enforcement, not your bank.
- belltaco 7y agoSesta/Fosta potentially make Pornhub/Paypal liable.
- jkaplowitz 7y agoPornhub is Canadian, not American (their HQ is Montreal). Of course PayPal is American and Pornhub has plenty of dealings with the US, so your point stands.
- dragonwriter 7y ago> Pornhub is Canadian, not American (their HQ is Montreal). That doesn't necessarily make them, or their principals, immune to US civil or criminal sanctions.
- jkaplowitz 7y agoI know, I said as much in my last sentence. I just meant it was less impactful on them than it is on PayPal. There is still some impact of course.
- james_s_tayler 7y agoBanks form an important part of it as KYC is designed to cut down on Money Laundering. Globally KYC/AML rules have gotten much stricter in recent years. If criminals can't access their money it ought to curb some of the incentives.
- jrcii 7y agoUnless you’re a drug cartel at HSBC, then it’s ok
- hedvig 7y ago>found to harbor ill gotten gains Ah yeah like they were on the hook for laundering Mexican drug cartel money?
- ohyes 7y agoOr the human trafficking?
- lmm 7y agoUmm yes they were, even if they'd done everything right. Look at the HSBC case and tell me the bank did anything nefarious or even negligent. Nope, governments hit them both ways.
- seanhunter 7y agoHSBC admitted negligence. The cartels liked working with HSBC so much they even had secure money boxes made that were specifically designed to fit through the hole in HSBC branch teller windows. There are tons of references online, but these are some: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-12-12/hsbc-mexican-branches-said-to-be-traffickers-favorites https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-12-12/hsbc-mexi... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/17/hsbc-executive-resigns-senate https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/17/hsbc-execut... https://www.foxnews.com/world/hsbc-knowingly-helped-mexican-cartels-launder-billions-lawsuit-claims https://www.foxnews.com/world/hsbc-knowingly-helped-mexican-...
- lmm 7y agoFirst link is paywalled. Second link: they kowtowed to Congress because it would be worse if they hadn't. Look at what they actually did: they complied with the law and advised their clients on how to comply with the law. That's their job. Third link appears to be all about allegations in a lawsuit rather than anything that was proven.
- short_sells_poo 7y agoIf you actually read my post, I do imply that when it is worth it, the banks will overlook things, but an individual sex worker's business is not worth the risk (probably, I'm not a banker). They'll help you launder $100 million, but not $10000.
- LanceH 7y agoWouldn't it be better to have them in the regular financial systems subject to the "know your customer" laws, so the money and customer can be more easily tracked? If it's about all sorts of illegal activities, shouldn't law enforcement use these things as a resource, rather than driving it underground?
- NullPrefix 7y agoIt is not law enforcement that is driving them underground. That is private corporations, who decide to rather not know those customers.
- um_ya 7y agoIt's been happening on social media sites too, so it's not just isolated to banking. It seems to be a political trend to censor non-politically correct things.
- StreamBright 7y agoAre you implying that you need to punish an entire industry because of the wrongdoings of some companies? I guess we should close all the bankers accounts because of Lehman Brothers. Politicians also.
- geomark 7y agoI suppose that is it, that if the volume isn't there then even the smallest risk is too much for the bank to bother with. So they just terminate. In a previous life I administered websites for a number of different businesses. One was a dating site that opened a small business account at a bank and then a couple weeks later the bank abruptly terminated their account, stating that they were not equipped to service "entertainment" business accounts. I guess their real reason was they considered there to be some risk that there would be soliciting going on and it wasn't worth the bother for the bank. The bank was very brash about it, stating that they can close an account at anytime for any reason.
- arminiusreturns 7y agoUBS and other bankers catering to major drug cartel money though... crickets and maybe a small percentage fine.
- godzillabrennus 7y agoNo crickets, they fully embraced it for survival. https://www.theguardian.com/global/2009/dec/13/drug-money-banks-saved-un-cfief-claims https://www.theguardian.com/global/2009/dec/13/drug-money-ba...
- stuaxo 7y agoHSBC in Mexico.
- Spooky23 7y agoUBS and HSBC aren’t US banks.
- x0x0 7y agoI doubt it's moral choices and more fraud and dispute levels, ie the cost to service a customer.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jeltz 7y agoI am not convinced it is just that. PayPal also refuses to do business with online gambling which is an industry with low fraud levels (in the early poker days they were high, but that was a long time ago). Thankfully there are a bunch pf credit card processors who know how good customers online casinos are and most banks are fine too, so that industry is not deplatformed.
- jeffasinger 7y agoMost of the online gambling operators in New Jersey take PayPal, though you usually have to use either a bank account linked with ACH or a balance you already have in PayPal.
- jeltz 7y agoEuropean gambling operators don't. It is pretty much impossible for a European operator to get PayPal (there have been a couple of exceptions).