8 ms·

SoftBank’s Masayoshi Son Speaks to an Almost Empty Room at Saudi Summit

126 points by ryan_j_naughton 7y ago

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
It’s amazing how a reputation for lighting money on fire makes investors avoid you.
- piva00 7y ago
  Lest not forget that this isn't Masayoshi Son's first ride on ligthing money on fire, he still holds the record of most money lost in history from the dot-com bubble crash of the 2000s.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
    Well, he was also the richest person in the world for 3 days in 2000. I'm as skeptical of the vision fund as anyone. But it's pretty impressive to go from nothing to the richest person in the world. Lose the most money in history (still being a multi-billionaire, though), and in the span of 20 years, 10x your fortune AGAIN -- to be again one of the richest people in the world. If anything, that's an impressive story -- at least to me.
    - rattray 7y ago
      Interesting, I hadn't known that. What's a good link to read about his story?
      - trillic 7y ago
        NPR's Planet Money did a decent piece on him earlier this month. https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=767379358 https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor...
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - chrismeller 7y ago
        Not to be a smartass, but... Wikipedia for a start? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masayoshi_Son https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masayoshi_Son
        Voloskaya 7y ago
        Yes, a single sentence on the event is probably what he was asking for, thank you.
        chrismeller 7y ago
        There are whole sections about his specific history at each company and stage. If you’re looking for three sentence summary then I can’t help you.
    - tim333 7y ago
      He's an interesting guy. Here he talks about making his first million while a student at Berkley https://youtu.be/--dReMGY_WY?t=459 https://youtu.be/--dReMGY_WY?t=459 He's showing signs of making some of the losses back already: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bytedance-ipo-breakingviews/breakingviews-tiktok-calls-the-tune-for-softbanks-comeback-tour-idUSKBN1X905C https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bytedance-ipo-breakingvie... I wouldn't write him off just because he got a little conned on WeWork.
      - unlinked_dll 7y ago
        He's always showing signs of making money before losing more of it. Personally I think TikTok is a paper tiger and wouldn't throw a dime of my money near them.
        Barrin92 7y ago
        it seems to be the first major Chinese player who makes inroads with global (and in particular American) audiences, something that other Chinese companies are notoriously bad at. And they really seem to be onto something when it comes to young users. I wouldn't brush them off.
        ls612 7y ago
        All they realized was that people wanted Vine, even if it wasn’t called Vine anymore. I still don’t know why Twitter shuttered them, it seems stupid in hindsight.
        unlinked_dll 7y ago
        I have massive distrust in companies headquartered in China. No company of TikTok's (purported) scale w.r.t revenue/valuation is going to be divorced from the influence if not ownership by the CCP. I would not invest in the Chinese government, and therefore would not invest in a large Chinese company since they are two sides of the same coin. Not only out of morality, but because I don't want to expose myself to financial risk by betting on a communist government/dictatorship not to fuck me.
  - furyofantares 7y ago
    I believe this is a baloney quip. If you want to know how he fared in dotcom you should look at his worth before and after, not compare the peak of the funny money to the bottom of the crash.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
unlinked_dll 7y ago
>Man who spent $10 billion to bring a company to an $8 billion valuation ignored at financial conference
- chewz 7y ago
  Softbank spent $18 billion according to Marcelo Claure.[1] [1] https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/24/softbank-notes-it-has-now-invested-18-5-billion-in-wework-more-than-the-gdp-of-bolivia-which-has-11-5-million-people/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/24/softbank-notes-it-has-now-...
  - chrisjc 7y ago
    Some of that money is Vision money, some of it is Softbank.
    - chewz 7y ago
      If Saudis can chop a journalist at their embassy just imagine what they are going to do to Son.
      - geodel 7y ago
        Give him avocado rolls on sushi platter?
wyxuan 7y ago
Can’t help but admit that this is a little sad.
Donald 7y ago
Isn't Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund a significant client of SoftBank? Interesting development.
- stefan_ 7y ago
  The biggest, I think.
  - umeshunni 7y ago
    The contributed $45B of the $100B in the fund
carrozo 7y ago
Oh no.
tempsy 7y ago
Would love to see a stack rank of SoftBank investments from best to worst. On the surface Nuro looks cool but now it makes you second guess knowing SB invested $1B in them...
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
Lots of comments about how people are avoiding SoftBank because of their big losses, but I think the bigger aspect at play is more investors are coming to view these mega funds in general as a bad idea. That is, when you're sitting on $100 billion dollars, you're going to spend it, even if to grifters like Adam Neumann. I think more folks are coming to the realization that there is just too much money chasing to few deals, and more money isn't the solution.
- tempsy 7y ago
  It's a good time to actually be a founder right now. Too many people just want to sit around and write checks. I hope the US creates a sovereign wealth fund. Not only would it likely make raising money more meritocratic but it would likely make a bunch of the low to mid tier VC firms go away.
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    > I hope the US creates a sovereign wealth fund. Umm, and where would that "wealth" come from?? The US national debt is over 22 trillion dollars.
    - adpirz 7y ago
      In a sense, we do this already in the form of billions in all kinds of grants.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - tempsy 7y ago
      The NSF regularly gives grants for no equity https://seedfund.nsf.gov/ https://seedfund.nsf.gov/ You could do something like that, but broaden the requirements to include all tech (not just science or high tech), and take equity. The gov't would also be in a much better position to hire scouts across the country, hence democratizing access to funding.
    - 7y ago
rossdavidh 7y ago
Cannot blame the Saudis one bit, but...this might be the sound of a tech investment bubble bursting. Which means many of the readers of HN, even the ones like me who never worked at a SB-backed company, will find the employment market in 2020 to be much less favorable than it has been in 2019.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
tootie 7y ago
Who attends these events anyway? What do they say on stage that you can't read off of their website? I lucked into tickets to some event that was near my office to listen to some panel of business titans talk about sustainability or something and it was just some half-baked sales pitches and posturing.
tim333 7y ago
The title's a bit clickbait. He was one member of a panel in one segment of a fairly dull and sparsely attended investment conference. It took me ages to track down when he even appeared but here it is for what it's worth: Program: https://futureinvestmentinitiative.com/en/programs/solving-the-unsolvable-how-investors-and-entrepreneurs-can-advance-the-movement-toward-deep-tech https://futureinvestmentinitiative.com/en/programs/solving-t... Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UWx1hbhpOU&feature=youtu.be&t=14920 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UWx1hbhpOU&feature=youtu.be...
- knolax 7y ago
  Bloomberg spreading disinformation? Impossible!/s Reminder that Bloomberg reporters get bonuses if their stories move markets[0]. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/bloomberg-reporters-compensation-2013-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/bloomberg-reporters-compensa...
  - whatok 7y ago
    This is nowhere near market moving information.
    - knolax 7y ago
      It's the principle of the thing.
- whatok 7y ago
  https://twitter.com/alialsalim/status/1189884241523412993 https://twitter.com/alialsalim/status/1189884241523412993 "Watch Softbank chief Masayoshi Son fall asleep during a panel at the Future Investment Initiative in Saudi yesterday..."
  - tim333 7y ago
    Reading some of the program description >Urgent questions? What frameworks for collaboration between corporations and startups will drive these technologies from ideation to commercialization? How will investors spot keystone technologies with the potential to address large-scale global challenges? I can kind of understand that
RonaldDR 7y ago
Quick Poll: Does this Softbank/WeWork unraveling make you nervous about the whole Silicon Valley system unzipping too? (Vote Below)
- RonaldDR 7y ago
  Yes, it does, I'm upping my meds.
- RonaldDR 7y ago
  No, I am not worried at all. This is fine.
sabujp 7y ago
there's a hack to getting around the bloomberg paywall. If you scroll down quickly before the page can bring up the pay us to read dialog you can get a greyed out version of the text. Then use ublock to zap the top modal out of the way. If you need to read the rest of the text reload again and scroll down faster.
- disgruntledphd2 7y ago
  Or one could disable Javascript? (WFM on FF with uBlock Origin).

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago

It’s amazing how a reputation for lighting money on fire makes investors avoid you.

piva00 7y ago
Lest not forget that this isn't Masayoshi Son's first ride on ligthing money on fire, he still holds the record of most money lost in history from the dot-com bubble crash of the 2000s.
- onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
  Well, he was also the richest person in the world for 3 days in 2000. I'm as skeptical of the vision fund as anyone. But it's pretty impressive to go from nothing to the richest person in the world. Lose the most money in history (still being a multi-billionaire, though), and in the span of 20 years, 10x your fortune AGAIN -- to be again one of the richest people in the world. If anything, that's an impressive story -- at least to me.
  - rattray 7y ago
    Interesting, I hadn't known that. What's a good link to read about his story?
    - trillic 7y ago
      NPR's Planet Money did a decent piece on him earlier this month. https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=767379358 https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor...
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - chrismeller 7y ago
      Not to be a smartass, but... Wikipedia for a start? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masayoshi_Son https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masayoshi_Son
      - Voloskaya 7y ago
        Yes, a single sentence on the event is probably what he was asking for, thank you.
        chrismeller 7y ago
        There are whole sections about his specific history at each company and stage. If you’re looking for three sentence summary then I can’t help you.
  - tim333 7y ago
    He's an interesting guy. Here he talks about making his first million while a student at Berkley https://youtu.be/--dReMGY_WY?t=459 https://youtu.be/--dReMGY_WY?t=459 He's showing signs of making some of the losses back already: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bytedance-ipo-breakingviews/breakingviews-tiktok-calls-the-tune-for-softbanks-comeback-tour-idUSKBN1X905C https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bytedance-ipo-breakingvie... I wouldn't write him off just because he got a little conned on WeWork.
    - unlinked_dll 7y ago
      He's always showing signs of making money before losing more of it. Personally I think TikTok is a paper tiger and wouldn't throw a dime of my money near them.
      - Barrin92 7y ago
        it seems to be the first major Chinese player who makes inroads with global (and in particular American) audiences, something that other Chinese companies are notoriously bad at. And they really seem to be onto something when it comes to young users. I wouldn't brush them off.
        ls612 7y ago
        All they realized was that people wanted Vine, even if it wasn’t called Vine anymore. I still don’t know why Twitter shuttered them, it seems stupid in hindsight.
        unlinked_dll 7y ago
        I have massive distrust in companies headquartered in China. No company of TikTok's (purported) scale w.r.t revenue/valuation is going to be divorced from the influence if not ownership by the CCP. I would not invest in the Chinese government, and therefore would not invest in a large Chinese company since they are two sides of the same coin. Not only out of morality, but because I don't want to expose myself to financial risk by betting on a communist government/dictatorship not to fuck me.
- furyofantares 7y ago
  I believe this is a baloney quip. If you want to know how he fared in dotcom you should look at his worth before and after, not compare the peak of the funny money to the bottom of the crash.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

unlinked_dll 7y ago

>Man who spent $10 billion to bring a company to an $8 billion valuation ignored at financial conference

chewz 7y ago
Softbank spent $18 billion according to Marcelo Claure.[1] [1] https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/24/softbank-notes-it-has-now-invested-18-5-billion-in-wework-more-than-the-gdp-of-bolivia-which-has-11-5-million-people/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/24/softbank-notes-it-has-now-...
- chrisjc 7y ago
  Some of that money is Vision money, some of it is Softbank.
  - chewz 7y ago
    If Saudis can chop a journalist at their embassy just imagine what they are going to do to Son.
    - geodel 7y ago
      Give him avocado rolls on sushi platter?

wyxuan 7y ago

Can’t help but admit that this is a little sad.

Donald 7y ago

Isn't Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund a significant client of SoftBank? Interesting development.

stefan_ 7y ago
The biggest, I think.
- umeshunni 7y ago
  The contributed $45B of the $100B in the fund

carrozo 7y ago

Oh no.

tempsy 7y ago

Would love to see a stack rank of SoftBank investments from best to worst. On the surface Nuro looks cool but now it makes you second guess knowing SB invested $1B in them...

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

Lots of comments about how people are avoiding SoftBank because of their big losses, but I think the bigger aspect at play is more investors are coming to view these mega funds in general as a bad idea. That is, when you're sitting on $100 billion dollars, you're going to spend it, even if to grifters like Adam Neumann. I think more folks are coming to the realization that there is just too much money chasing to few deals, and more money isn't the solution.

tempsy 7y ago
It's a good time to actually be a founder right now. Too many people just want to sit around and write checks. I hope the US creates a sovereign wealth fund. Not only would it likely make raising money more meritocratic but it would likely make a bunch of the low to mid tier VC firms go away.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  > I hope the US creates a sovereign wealth fund. Umm, and where would that "wealth" come from?? The US national debt is over 22 trillion dollars.
  - adpirz 7y ago
    In a sense, we do this already in the form of billions in all kinds of grants.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - tempsy 7y ago
    The NSF regularly gives grants for no equity https://seedfund.nsf.gov/ https://seedfund.nsf.gov/ You could do something like that, but broaden the requirements to include all tech (not just science or high tech), and take equity. The gov't would also be in a much better position to hire scouts across the country, hence democratizing access to funding.
  - 7y ago

rossdavidh 7y ago

Cannot blame the Saudis one bit, but...this might be the sound of a tech investment bubble bursting. Which means many of the readers of HN, even the ones like me who never worked at a SB-backed company, will find the employment market in 2020 to be much less favorable than it has been in 2019.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

tootie 7y ago

Who attends these events anyway? What do they say on stage that you can't read off of their website? I lucked into tickets to some event that was near my office to listen to some panel of business titans talk about sustainability or something and it was just some half-baked sales pitches and posturing.

tim333 7y ago

The title's a bit clickbait. He was one member of a panel in one segment of a fairly dull and sparsely attended investment conference. It took me ages to track down when he even appeared but here it is for what it's worth: Program: https://futureinvestmentinitiative.com/en/programs/solving-the-unsolvable-how-investors-and-entrepreneurs-can-advance-the-movement-toward-deep-tech https://futureinvestmentinitiative.com/en/programs/solving-t... Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UWx1hbhpOU&feature=youtu.be&t=14920 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UWx1hbhpOU&feature=youtu.be...

knolax 7y ago
Bloomberg spreading disinformation? Impossible!/s Reminder that Bloomberg reporters get bonuses if their stories move markets[0]. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/bloomberg-reporters-compensation-2013-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/bloomberg-reporters-compensa...
- whatok 7y ago
  This is nowhere near market moving information.
  - knolax 7y ago
    It's the principle of the thing.
whatok 7y ago
https://twitter.com/alialsalim/status/1189884241523412993 https://twitter.com/alialsalim/status/1189884241523412993 "Watch Softbank chief Masayoshi Son fall asleep during a panel at the Future Investment Initiative in Saudi yesterday..."
- tim333 7y ago
  Reading some of the program description >Urgent questions? What frameworks for collaboration between corporations and startups will drive these technologies from ideation to commercialization? How will investors spot keystone technologies with the potential to address large-scale global challenges? I can kind of understand that

RonaldDR 7y ago

Quick Poll: Does this Softbank/WeWork unraveling make you nervous about the whole Silicon Valley system unzipping too? (Vote Below)

RonaldDR 7y ago
Yes, it does, I'm upping my meds.
RonaldDR 7y ago
No, I am not worried at all. This is fine.

sabujp 7y ago

there's a hack to getting around the bloomberg paywall. If you scroll down quickly before the page can bring up the pay us to read dialog you can get a greyed out version of the text. Then use ublock to zap the top modal out of the way. If you need to read the rest of the text reload again and scroll down faster.

disgruntledphd2 7y ago
Or one could disable Javascript? (WFM on FF with uBlock Origin).