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All plastic waste could be recycled into new plastic: researchers
- uhhyeahdude 7y agoA link to the study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993719300697 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221499371...
- gonzo41 7y agoI watched a really good TED talk on recycling plastics. The biggest issue they faced was that separating like plastic was the hard thing, as they all feel like plastic, all look like plastic and weigh pretty much the same for the volume. The challenge in processing recyclable stock was separating types. You can melt it all down, but there are lots of chlorides and other elements bound onto polymer chains to elicit different properties in the original plastics, In the video I watched these seemed like the biggest impediment to their approach because they wanted to consolidate stock of like materials. They opted for a optical/mechanical sorting approach which I thought was pretty impressive at the time. The article does suggest that types need to be segregated to different pathways so it may be an issue. The pathways the paper suggest seem practical. It'll be interesting to see which countries are willing to take this on. It's a very heady industry. And the intent is a carbon neutral outcome. I wonder if we will just trade the CO2 of making plastic for the shipping cost of plastics from point A to B.
- spockz 7y agoEven if it trades all the CO2 produced by production to shipping that is a net win. It will mean less plastic in the environment. Over time we can make the shipping more efficient which will reduce CO2 and other costs further. Or maybe we just need biodegradable plastics.
- panpanna 7y agoGetting rid of plastics is already a huge cost for cities. Right now, many large cities burn their platics which also generates co2.
- Tharkun 7y agoThey also burn oil and gas. Burning plastic waste for energy isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things. Sure, not having pumped up the oil and not having turned it into plastic would have been best. And recycling that plastic into something useful would have been better. But burning it as fuel is still pretty good.
- cjblomqvist 7y agoWell, shipping could be made using energy from renewable sources, thus removing any need for oil extraction - which I assume is the end goal here (and the truly sustainable outcome we're after).
- gus_massa 7y agoThey can theoretically recicle a lot of the plastic, but they get the 100% assuming that they can transform the part that is transformed to CO2 back to plastic. This part requires a lot of energy, and including it is almost cheating.
- pvaldes 7y agoAnd this is in part behind the renewed interest for removing plastic in the oceans, probably. Is a plastic mine waiting for miners
- pfdietz 7y agoNo, that cannot possibly be practical, just from the value of the recovered material for recycling.
- goalieca 7y agoThe plastic is not sufficiently concentrated. Would have to scrape the whole ocean and at various depths.
- joshspankit 7y agoThe garbage gyres are quite concentrated.
- panpanna 7y agoAlso, they are becoming a danger for humans and fishes. At some point we need to pay that cost. Maybe this particular technology is not fully applicable in oceans, but at least it's a start.
- joshspankit 7y agoSorry, my point is that when harvesting plastic from the ocean, the garbage gyres become a rich “mine” as they are very concentrated
- gus_massa 7y agoThey are not very concentrated. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch > The plastic concentration is estimated to be up to 100 kilograms per square kilometer in the center, [...] That is .1g/m^2 (0.3moz/ft^2 [1]). The weight of the plastic cap of a bottle is approximately 2.4g (85moz). So you need to sweep an area of 24m^2 (260ft^2) to recover the equivalent of a plastic cap. That's approximately 18 plastic caps in the area of a basketball court. [1] 0.3 milliounces per square foot, I don't know the best unit to show this.
- matthewhartmans 7y agoAdidas is doing some pretty good work recycling plastic. https://youtu.be/pJBRqespiOA https://youtu.be/pJBRqespiOA
- cpach 7y agoAs a former resident of Gothenburg, I’m glad to see Chalmers on the front page :)
- tonyedgecombe 7y agoNow all we need to do is make the plastic manufacturers pay the cost.
- pentae 7y agoWe could solve it overnight if every government agreed to tax single use plastic production and sale then use the funds to pay for recycling. Organizations like The Plastic Bank pay people in communities of high polluting regions to recycle plastic preventing it from entering waterways. It can be solved in many ways but sadly getting every country to agree on something like that is difficult.
- jpttsn 7y agoSo that actually sounds like a way we can’t solve it.
- jokla 7y agoAsk for an certain percentag of recycled plastic in every new plastic product. Increase said percentage over time.
- RenRav 7y agoThat's a good way increase the value. I believe now it's just not profitable to do all the sorting. Maybe it would become viable if everyone had to incorporate a portion of recycled plastic and there was this sudden demand.
- mythrwy 7y agoI think maybe you mean plastic consumers.
- m463 7y agoIn many places consumers do pay a recycling fee for plastic bottles.
- 7y ago
- vfc1 7y agoI wonder how much pollution will this new process of recycling plastic bring. There is so much unnecessary plastic going around in our society, let's start there first. On my local supermarket, to buy 4 peaches they come in a plastic container fully covered with plastic sheet, I'm not kidding.
- elhudy 7y agoSomething that really stuck out to me in Japan was seeing the bananas at the supermarket wrapped in plastic. If only bananas had some NATURAL WAY of protecting themselves from the elements...
- 11235813213455 7y agothey even remove the skin?
- elhudy 7y agono, they wrapped the skin in plastic
- hevi_jos 7y agoIt is more complex than that. Japan is not a producer of fruits. They come from far away. This means they have to transport it economically, that means they are transported by sea. That means bananas are green when collected and sent to Japan, because transporting it by sea takes a long time. Bananas naturally release CH4 that actually makes the fruit mature and spoils it. So they have to absorb it or diffuse during transport, then add it in Japan. But if they add it in Japan, the fruit does not mature entirely, only the external side, so it is a good idea to add an artificial atmosphere of some kind.
- elhudy 7y agoThank you for this info - very interesting.
- 7y ago
- konschubert 7y agoI find myself much less worried about plastic waste than about climate change. Yet I observe on Twitter and other social media that these problems are considered equally important, sometimes people even treat them as equivalent. Am I missing something?
- colechristensen 7y agoPlastic degrades into tiny tiny little pieces that get absolutely everywhere and some of the compounds are active inside biology and because they are new, there isn't much for evolved mechanisms to deal with them. For example "BPA-free" is about bisphenol A which has similar hormone effects as estrogen. You end up eating enormously large amounts of plastic particles that just get stuck in you forever.
- 11235813213455 7y agoApparently plastics micro-particles is harming life in the soil, in oceans, rivers, everywhere
- panpanna 7y agoWe know for example that microplastics in the oceans causes brain damage in fish. Right now, we have no idea how it affects humans.
- yqx 7y agoI see them both as symptoms of the same underlying problem: an economy based on generating enormous amounts of waste for short-term profit.
- StevePerkins 7y agoAll of these worries churn, like any other fashion. Through a cycle of short attention span, and craving for novelty. 5-10 years ago in the grocery store line, myself and half the people in front of me were bringing our own reusable grocery bags. I feel guilty acknowledging this, but we all just seemed to... stop. Because it was a mild hassle, and the novelty wore off. I can't remember the last time I've seen someone with with their own bags, and I imagine that younger store clerks would be confused by them. We're still concerned about plastic (that worry comes and goes like a pendulum). We just got bored and lost our attention span for one of the most direct things we can do to reduce plastic. 10-15 years ago, myself and most of my political peers were more upset about Guantanamo Bay than plastic or climate change. Nothing ever changed there, but I can't recall the last time I've heard it mentioned. The average anti-war protestor of the post-9/11 years probably understands little to nothing about U.S. action in Syria over the past decade.
- 08-15 7y agoThe press release is a lie. Looking at the diagram at the top, and reading just the abstract of the linked study, it's clear that the whole idea is to degrade plastic waste (through pyrolysis and/or oxidation) and use the degradation products in existing petrochemical plants. Unfortunately, plastics don't degrade only to valuable, reusable chemicals. The study admits the lie: 100% recycling of plastics isn't expected, and they only get to "100% recovery of carbon" by first electrifying the plant and then "sequestering" the CO2 that forms anyway. Of course, 100% recovery of carbon in this meaningless sense can already be achieved by landfilling the plastics.
- gus_massa 7y agoI agree, the 100% part is an exaggeration. They say that some part of the plastic will go to CO2 and it can be later transformed to plastic, but this transformation needs a lot of energy and is expensive. They propose an alternative o store the CO2 in a safe place, that is also expensive. With this type of creative accounting, you can have a gasoline truck with zero CO2 emissions, because you collect somehow the CO2 in a giant tank and then transform it back to fuel (with a big cost of money and energy).
- spodek 7y agoWe can all help stop this. Everyone can reduce their contribution. I cut out nearly all packaged food, which reduced my garbage to where I empty it less than once a year (I last emptied my trash in September 2018) http://joshuaspodek.com/avoiding-food-packaging-2 http://joshuaspodek.com/avoiding-food-packaging-2. I was pleasantly surprised that doing so cost less, reduced food preparation time, increased diversity of food, and led to more social interaction with friends and farmers. It's more accessible for people in food deserts and without time. For the record, it took a couple years of practice to go from weekly garbage to monthly to yearly. That's just one example. Everyone can reduce some. The more you start, instead of just accepting and throwing your hands up, the easier each next step. The producers will see the trend and stop buying plastic. Of course there are other ways to act: legislation, creating healthier alternatives. The point is: everyone can act starting here and now and they will find joy in it. It may take time, but acting on one's values is rewarding.
- flaviojuvenal 7y agoIt would be motivating to know cases where "everyone can act now by themselves" really worked. I don't know any. Big change usually happens through organizations lobbying for something. Organization is the keyword here. Individual change rarely makes a difference if not organized.
- dmos62 7y ago> organizations lobbying for something The more generic term is politics.
- reureu 7y agoWhy not both? You can stop personally contributing to the problem while you also advocate for system-level changes. Also, there's likely personal benefit (e.g., improved health, decreased cost) that comes with making these changes.
- flaviojuvenal 7y agoI agree. But without tools, marketing, lobbying, policy-making, etc., it's hard to make lasting changes.
- RenRav 7y agoIs this for thermoplastics? Or does it include thermosetting plastic and rubbers? It would be interesting if they could actually recycle car tires, I believe what currently happens is burning or shredding into mulch.
- hanniabu 7y agoPretty upsetting that it's used to mulch. We're intentionally putting and think it's a great idea at the same time, go figure.
- zdragnar 7y agoWhy is it upsetting? Lots of playgrounds around here, especially at schools, have moved entirely to shredded rubber instead of wood mulch, almost entirely due to safety concerns. I don't see the concern over safety, given all the rough housing I did as a kid at just such a playground, but if it brings peace of mind, I don't see why it would be upsetting to anyone.
- ip26 7y agoI once visited a shredded rubber playground at 10,000' on a midsummer day. The sun was intense, and as a result the offgassing from the tire chips was so dramatic you could literally see a layer of gasses hanging over the mulch. (They were colorless, but your eye could pick up on the disturbance & shifts in the light) It reeked.
- mrob 7y agoI think it's more likely you were seeing refraction caused by the change in density of the layer of hot air: "heat haze". Any dark colored material would have the same air-heating effect.
- ip26 7y agoMaybe, but I've never seen "heat haze" curl & wisp, and it doesn't reek of tires & chemicals.
- mattmaroon 7y ago" The fact that plastics do not break down, and therefore accumulate in our ecosystems, is one of our major environmental problems." Not really. Landfills are safe and clean and plentiful. Ocean plastic is a problem, but comes almost entirely from intentional dumping. Litter is a problem, but it seems silly to assume that someone who cannot be bothered to put plastic in a trash can will put it in a recycle bin. The real issue is the carbon footprint of making/transporting items, plastic or otherwise. I'd like to see how this compares in that regard. If this uses more energy than just making new plastics it will probably exacerbate a real problem (global warming) in order to help with a fake problem (landfills) which, unfortunately, is pretty consistent with modern environmentalism.
- ethagnawl 7y ago> Landfills are safe and clean I'm admittedly no expert, but I'm _pretty damn certain_ this is not the case. (Do you know what leachate is?) I'm happy to be proven wrong by references to legitimate research backing up this claim, though.
- mattmaroon 7y agoThe recycling industry relies on outdated ideas like that. Leachate was once a huge problem, but it was solved decades ago. Modern landfills are constructed with layers of barriers and collection tubing. Here's a cool diagram from the EPA: https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-09/landfill_diagram.jpg https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-09/landfill_... Do you have "references to legitimate research" stating that modern landfills are unsafe or is that just your default belief?
- hanniabu 7y agoOnly one layer of synthetic liner, I think that says enough. All it takes is a single tear that could have even happened with installation, or maybe the sand layers aren't as thick as what's recommended and as garbage is put on top it digs into the sand and rips the synthetic layer. How much extensive real world testing has been done with this synthetic layers? Is it meant to sit for decades bathing in a chemical soup? Or it is assumed that it'd only get wet? My guess is that they didn't use real world tests where people are throwing out chemicals that shouldn't be put in the garbage.
- krm01 7y agoWhat would be a good strategy to start small with an alternative to plastic. Without bumping into the trillion dollar industry head on and losing?
- hanniabu 7y agoThere's solutions out there but it's a chicken and egg problem. They're more expensive because of low quantities because nobody wants to commit to them, but if the industry as a whole would switch them you'd have economy of scale to make it competitive. There's also multiple solutions so it's a question of which one to go with. This would also be a good initiative to subsidize but instead we give those for sugar products and gas.
- klingonopera 7y agoIn Germany, for beverages, we have a system where you pay a deposit for a plastic or glass bottle and receive it back when you return the empty bottle[0][1]. That creates monetary incentive to collect those bottles and they thus hardly contribute to litter. There are single- and multi-use bottles in circulation. I find it to be a very successful system and believe that it could be expanded to all packaging. I'm somewhat perplexed that even in Germany this idea isn't talked about more often (or at all). [0]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfandsystem https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfandsystem [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_vending_machine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_vending_machine EDIT: The systems are called "container-deposit legislations": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container-deposit_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container-deposit_legislation
- blargmaster33 7y agoBut not in Sweden since we no longer have the capacity to generate electricity for our industry. https://www.di.se/nyheter/elbrist-hindrar-pagens-expansion-nagot-man-hor-talas-om-i-u-lander/ https://www.di.se/nyheter/elbrist-hindrar-pagens-expansion-n...
- tehjoker 7y agohttps://theintercept.com/2019/10/18/coca-cola-recycling-plastics-pollution/ https://theintercept.com/2019/10/18/coca-cola-recycling-plas... "Leaked Audio Reveals How Coca-Cola Undermines Plastic Recycling Efforts" Unfortunately technical solutions don't solve the social problems. :(
- uxamanda 7y agoGlad to see more innovation in plastic recycling. Reminds me of this interview about making medical devices from recycled plastic in Gaza[0]: “Let’s talk about how your medical devices are printed on the ground in Gaza. 3D printers use plastic to create objects. Where do you get the plastic? It’s recycled ABS plastic. Gaza actually has a 100 percent recycle rate because no plastic is allowed in. Really? Yeah, almost everybody’s plumbing in Gaza is made out of recycled plastic. It’s really quite wild. For the printers, we use recycled ABS and we mix in as much virgin plastic as we can get because you always need some virgin plastic — there’s no such thing as 100 percent recycled plastic — but sometimes it’s not very much. Where do you get the ABS from? I’m imagining a bunch of plastic bottles. You’re halfway there. Plastic bottles are made out of a material called PET. We don’t use PET; we use ABS, which is the plastic that’s in Lego pieces. It’s also in chairs and tables, picnic tables, shit like that. What happens is: you take those plastic parts, you grind them down, you wash them and dry them. Then you melt them and extrude them into spools of “filament,” which is what 3D printers use to make things...“ Article goes on to explain some of the machinery people are using. [0] from https://logicmag.io/bodies/tarek-loubani-on-3d-printing-in-gaza/ https://logicmag.io/bodies/tarek-loubani-on-3d-printing-in-g...
- ksaj 7y agoThe thing that peeves me is that at least where I live they won't let us recycle black plastic. They say it is because you can't use black plastic to make any other kind of plastic. So... they would rather make new black plastic than simply separate the discarded black plastic into recycled material for new black plastic things. An ever increasing supply of new discarded black plastic is at hand. And we do use a lot of black plastic. This to me, suggests there is a very strong plastic lobby, because otherwise it's just nonsensical.