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Cons: no Sun and the salaries seem to be capped at CHF 120-140K. Has that old school European mindset that managers and MBAs should be paid more than individual
by zerr 7y ago
Cons: no Sun and the salaries seem to be capped at CHF 120-140K. Has that old school European mindset that managers and MBAs should be paid more than individual contributors, engineers.
- lukeqsee 7y ago> no Sun Only in the winter. :) The other points hold as far as my experience goes.
- dijit 7y agoLots of Sun, but maybe not as much as Southern California. San Francisco is famously non-sunny (all that cloud). Salaries are certainly not capped at 140k CHF, I've seen a number of job ads for 180K CHF and that doesn't count stock options which is usually the bulk of compensation at the high end. Not sure about the MBA vs IC thing though.
- chaostheory 7y ago> San Francisco is famously non-sunny (all that cloud). Used to be true, but less and less given climate change
- house9-2 7y ago> San Francisco is famously non-sunny (all that cloud). San Francisco is on a peninsula, so it gets lots of fog. Its weather pattern does not represent the area in general. San Jose is further inland and very sunny most of the year. Today SF high will be 66F and San Jose 75F; big difference but in either case its mid-October and still t-shirt weather.
- tiagopc 7y ago> Salaries are certainly not capped at 140k CHF, I've seen a number of job ads for 180K CHF Are you speaking about CH or USA? Because in CH it pretty much seems to be capped at 140k CHF and below. Unless you are speaking of a very specific role/technology stack.
- dijit 7y agoI was applying for roles recently that were as high as 180K CHF (and that wasn't FAANG).
- config_yml 7y agoCan you share some company names? Seems rare
- dijit 7y agoOne I applied for recently was dacadoo[0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacadoo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacadoo
- peferron 7y agoZurich (which is mentioned in the article) sees ~1,500 hours of sunshine a year [1]. That's absolutely horrendous and not "lots of sun" by any measure. I grew up in a place in France that gets slightly more sun than Zurich. I now live in the Bay Area Peninsula with 3,000+ hours of sunshine a year and the difference is incredible, especially in winter. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_sunshine_duration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_sunshine_dur...
- notus 7y agoThat mindset is definitely not exclusive to Europe, almost every country on the planet thinks managers and MBA's should be paid more than individual contributors. It's only a very recent trend in the US that it started to change.
- api 7y ago... and only in parts of the US. Historically compensation tends to be tied to age/seniority and hierarchical status, not contribution per se.
- tiborsaas 7y agoThey still have the highest salaries in Europe. Anybody moving there from another European country would see those salaries as pretty awesome. I don't care what managers and MBA-s make until I can make an awesome living. I'm not more special.
- point78 7y agoAlso most expensive place to live in europe
- tiborsaas 7y agoI did the math, still worth it by far.
- holstvoogd 7y agoExactly. I would make double what I make now in the Netherlands. That being said, everything is 2 to 3 times more expensive there. That might well be worth it given the quality of life you get there.
- cstpdk 7y agoCopenhagen has about the same salary ranges as quoted in the article. Taxes are a higher, but healthcare is free and foreigners can get 3years of 25% flat tax rate if you get a tech job (based purely on income, I think). Living costs are lower than Switzerland, I rent 100sqm for about 1900EUR. Good cheese is more readily available in Switzerland though
- i_am_proteus 7y agoNot only does Switzerland have a Sun, it has the same Sun as California, just on a slightly different schedule.
- krak12 7y agoLike appearing once every 6 months
- dls2016 7y agoThe cosine function would like to have a word with you...
- microtherion 7y agoJust keep in mind the geography. Zürich is roughly as far north as Seattle, while San Francisco is a bit further south than Athens.
- config_yml 7y agoThis is my experience as well. Even with > 10 years experience, it's hard to find engineering jobs paying > 120k. > In Zurich, you can rent a whole flat (50+ square meters) for something between 2500-4000 CHF and if you are single and open to living with other people you can find a room in something called Wohngemeinde for as little as 800-1000 CHF. Good luck if you have a family, it's ~4k for 4.5 rooms (100sqm). Check the listings on the website, most of them cap out at 10k/month. That is gross, pre-tax. So net is about 8k max. > Maybe it is because of the crunch work culture that squeezes out everything out of employees and only gives a payout to founders and VCs? This is no different in Switzerland.
- dt3ft 7y agoI know at least 6 other devs (backend, frontend, mobile) who work in Zurich that don't make it past 110k with 5+ years of experience.
- microtherion 7y ago>> In Zurich, [...] you can find a room in something called Wohngemeinde This was an error in the original article, by the way. The correct word is "Wohngemeinschaft". "Wohngemeinde" means "city/town/village you're residing in". > Good luck if you have a family, it's ~4k for 4.5 rooms (100sqm). Well, yes and no. Rents can be quite high for new arrivals. But about 20% of rental apartments in Zürich are owned by non-profit Wohnbaugenossenschaften, where rents are a lot cheaper, rise very modestly, and as long as you're on good standing, you pretty much never get kicked out, but you need to get onto a waiting list for a number of months/years.
- aty268 7y agoThe capped salary is a really big deal.
- amyjess 7y ago> Cons: no Sun That's a pro to me. I'm happiest when it's cool and cloudy, and everything to do with the sun is just brutally oppressive and makes it hard to get anything done.
- googlethrow 7y agoAt Google Zürich the total comp starts at 160K chf/year for fresh grads and with counteroffers can go much higher.
- dt3ft 7y agoWhat would the number be for an Interaction Designer?
- lm28469 7y ago> that old school European mindset Not sure in what kind of bubble you live but it's like that everywhere except if you're a tech engineer in a SV tech company.