13 ms·

“Dune” Endures (2013)

121 points by smacktoward 7y ago

m0zg 7y ago
I've finally listened to it when I did a 4K mile road trip last year. I highly recommend the Audible rendition of it. It's amazing, and adds the experience you would not get from the book. There are several well-cast voice actors in it, so it's not just a dude reading the book. I especially recommend listening to it as you drive alone through Wyoming in the dead of the night. Experience I will savor when I'm on my deathbed.
koboll 7y ago
>As David Itzkoff noted in 2006, what’s curious about “Dune” ’s stature is that it has not penetrated popular culture in the way that “The Lord of the Rings” and “Star Wars” have. There are no “Dune” conventions. Catchphrases from the book have not entered the language. The movie next year oughta do it, if the star-studded cast and acclaimed director are any indication.
- Animats 7y ago
  The last Dune movie (1984) didn't do it. "It's like The Last Airbender, but with sand."
  - RangerScience 7y ago
    Honestly, IMO, people weren't as good at this kind of movie back then, and audiences were less informed as to genre elements. The weirding way, the Voice, even the psychedelic sequences - these had to be explained, or shown, and how? How do you film these things in a way that audiences can understand? Not saying there's clear answers now, but there's been another thirty years of exploration in how you show weird, hard-to-film genre elements. There's also another entire set of explorations on exactly these things (the Scifi Channel's miniseries) from which to see what works and doesn't.
  - cannonedhamster 7y ago
    I might be in the minority but I liked the Dune movie. It introduced the universe, how it worked, had a solid cast. The movie is clearly one from the 80s with it's dedication to atmosphere.
    - airstrike 7y ago
      What you call "dedication to atmosphere" felt just too over the top to many others. From one other review: "The second scene depicts the mysterious “Guild Navigator,” a brainiac character Lynch devises as a literal giant talking brain floating in a tank of brine. His mouth is triangular-shaped. There’s really no clean way of saying this, so here goes: It looks like a vagina. And it secretes gas. Lynch likes to shoot this in graphic close-up, and they’re explicit enough that if you see the film cut on TV, the editors completely omit these shots." https://www.metro.us/entertainment/in-slight-defense-david-lynch-s-dune-isn-t-that-bad/tmWncw---08O6Xetk1qBrk https://www.metro.us/entertainment/in-slight-defense-david-l... I respect your appreciation for the movie, but to most people it's objectively bad. From Wikipedia: "In retrospect, Lynch disowned the film and acknowledged he should never have directed Dune: I started selling out on Dune. Looking back, it's no one's fault but my own. I probably shouldn't have done that picture, but I saw tons and tons of possibilities for things I loved, and this was the structure to do them in. There was so much room to create a world. But I got strong indications from Raffaella and Dino De Laurentiis of what kind of film they expected, and I knew I didn't have final cut." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)#Critical_reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)#Critical_rece...
      - emmelaich 7y ago
        The brain in brine thing reminds of the queen insect in Starship Troopers. That last scene with Neil Patrick Harris' character also destroyed that movie for me.
      - cannonedhamster 7y ago
        Yeah I can see that. It's definitely a personal taste thing. I'm just glad that many people have so many different things to enjoy.
  - geargrinder 7y ago
    I loved the movie when it was released, and felt it was true in spirit to the book. Sure, some of the details were missed or altered, but that was to be expected in a movie adaptation of a book with so many details. Herbert was on the set and at least had some input. Baron Harkkonen has to be one of the most memorable movie characters ever.
  - anotherevan 7y ago
    My summation is that the 1984 movie was both good and original, but the parts that were original were not good, and the parts that were good were not original.
  - emmelaich 7y ago
    I loved the book and mostly liked the movie. Some of the movie is fantastic, but some of it is laugh out loud silly. It's one thing to read about the voice and worm-riding, it's very hard to put those into movies. Apparently a new film is being made by Denis Villeneuve. Let's hope for the best. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(2020_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(2020_film)
- xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
  > Catchphrases from the book have not entered the language. What an odd framing. True, perhaps, but what about from the 1984 movie? > "The spice must flow!" > "If you walk without rhythm, you won't attract the worm" > "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion." Frank Herbert isn't exactly known for succinct, catchy one-liners. Here's at least one I recognize from the book, "Fear is the mind-killer": > "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." Sure, Dune may not be as big as LOTR or Star Wars, but before the blockbuster films, what catchphrases from LOTR were (are?) remotely commonplace?
  - slowmovintarget 7y ago
    I, for one, regularly put on my best Max von Sydow impression and say "As to their relationship to the spice... Who knows?"
  - sli 7y ago
    > ... what catchphrases from LOTR were (are?) remotely commonplace? "And my axe!" was common enough for a while. Less so now but it's still around. LOTR memes that rely on single lines with varying popularity are pretty common but that's probably stretching it.
    - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
      "My precioussss", "One does not simply walk into Mordor", "Well yes, but what about second lunch?", etc.
      - balfirevic 7y ago
        cough second breakfasts! cough
    - 7y ago
Pfhreak 7y ago
> Catchphrases from the book have not entered the language. The spice must flow? Fear is the mind killer? Christopher Walken dancing to Fatboy Slim's "Weapon of Choice" includes the phrase "Walk without a rhythm, you won't attract the worm". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCDIYvFmgW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCDIYvFmgW8 Maybe to a lesser extent, "He who controls the spice controls the universe", "wheels within wheels", and the gom jabbar are all things I've heard people reference. It's definitely entered the language. Maybe not as deeply as Star Wars, but it's not absent either.
- hanoz 7y ago
  This is my favourite film so I'm pretty tuned in to these phrases, and I've never heard anyone use any of them. I'm also pretty sure there's no "wheels within wheels" in it.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    Dune is a book. The movie is just a horrible adaptation of that book.
    - hanoz 7y ago
      Ah, sorry. I'd somehow got it into my head that we were specifically talking about the movie. I do love the book too. But the movie is better.
      - sgt101 7y ago
        >I do love the book too. But the movie is better. there must be other people who believe that, but I've never met any of them.
        johncoltrane 7y ago
        One more, here.
richk449 7y ago
Author seems overly dismissive of the sequels. While they aren’t as great as the first, many of them are still very good books with interesting ideas. The stuff written by others (not Frank Herbert) on the other hand, does seem to be dreck based on my sampling.
- tedivm 7y ago
  The biggest flaw with the sequels is that they end up not ending- in the same way the Dune Messiah was a setup for Children of Dune, it seems that Heretics and Chapterhouse were leading up to the seventh book that Herbert died before writing.
  - geargrinder 7y ago
    His son Brian and Kevin J Anderson did write the last installment based on detailed notes from Frank Herbert, so at least the story is complete. While their writing is not as brilliant as Frank Herbert's, the books they wrote, mainly the prequels, have helped me understand just how big the original vision was and have helped me enjoy the sequels more. God Emperor is truly as masterpiece, but it took a couple of reads, and the sequels, for me to appreciate it more.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      Correction: Brian and KJA had access to detailed notes from Frank Herbert, and used none of them in favor of KJA's "improvements" to the Dune mythos. The same way KJA "improved" Star Wars. His wife, incidentally the editor-in-chief of the publishing imprint that then owned the publishing rights to the Star Wars and Dune literary universes, is to blame for unleashing his word vomit on mankind.
      - etiam 7y ago
        I've been yearning to read those notes for decades now. Any idea of their situation? Is there a chance they'll ever be released?
oska 7y ago
I recently found the Macmillian audiobook of Dune through my local library service and have been listening to it. It's an 'acted' audiobook in that there is a narrator but also different voices for speech by the different characters. It's quite good and has been a nice way to revisit a book that blew my mind as a 12 year old.
sillydinosaur 7y ago
Walk without rhythm so you don't attract the Wyrm.
pmoriarty 7y ago
"One winter evening, I heard him read my mother a passage about a young man named Paul Atreides who was forced to place his hand into the blackness of a box while an old woman, the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam, held a poison needle at his neck, the gom jabbar. Though I didn't realize it at the time, this was the opening chapter of Dune. Pauls' hand would feel intense pain, the wrinkled crone told him, but if he withdrew it from the box she would kill him with the poison needle. I was transfixed by the drama of the scene and by the strange words... gom jabbar, Maud'Dib, the Gesserit, jihad, kull wahad.. the throaty, mysterious resonance of words and names as they rolled off Dad's tongue, in his powerful voice. I was intrigued by the sounds. And by the way the Reverend Mother used "the Voice" on Paul to control him, similar to methods my father often employed against me. "The language is beautiful," Mom said, after listening to the chapter. Frequently over the years she spoke of the poetry of his writing, and rarely made suggestions for improvement in that area. Her comments primarily concerned plot when she thought he was getting too convoluted, and characterization, particularly the motivational aspects of female characters. I heard Dad speak passages aloud in his study as he wrote them, before presenting them to my mother. He understood the psychology of human society, the way stories had been told orally for centuries before anything was ever written down. The way troubadours and jongleurs traveled from castle to castle, telling tales and singing songs. He believed readers subconsciously heard the written text through their ears, receiving them as oral transmissions. As a consequence, he labored long hours to obtain just the right word selection and rhythm. The best writing, he believed, touched the subconscious. He enjoyed relating his stories to my mother, a process that recalled times as a boy spent around scouting campfires when he captivated the attention of scouts and scoutmasters alike. It brought back as well darkened bedrooms Frank Herbert shared with his cousins, in which they hung on his every word. Mom enjoyed hearing his tales. She was an excellent listener, as she had been in her childhood when her Scottish father told her clever mystery stories about caves and secret panels..." -- Brian Herbert on his father, Frank Herbert
- s_Hogg 7y ago
  Why is Brian Herbert as lucid as this talking about his dad, but so terrible when trying to write a book following on from his work? Bit of a puzzle to me.
emmelaich 7y ago
(2013)
phlakaton 7y ago
No book with an Iron Maiden song made in its tribute qualifies as "not having penetrated the popular culture." It's merely taken a path through the culture more befitting its challenging material. It is not a book for tawdry conventions and endless merchandising. It is a book for parents to introduce to their children, with a sly smile, on a free weekend, when they have come of age. It's the progressive rock of science fiction novels. ;-)
- stevekemp 7y ago
  For the curious the song is "To Tame a Land (1983)", and was going to be called Dune, but permission was not granted. When I think of unexpected Maiden I recall The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, but this was a good crossover too.
  - ozim 7y ago
    I am not amused by that song, feels like cheap capitalization on "Dune" popularity at the time. Lyrics are nothing special, sounds are quite ok but I take "Wasted years" over this any time. Sounds like Sabbaton, who is capitalizing on "battle songs" for different countries. It is not like I don't like Iron Maiden but yeah, there is some metal band somewhere doing "Harry Potter" metal song. Though maybe I am too cynical :)
    - stevekemp 7y ago
      I've bought every Maiden album released, up until the mid nineties, and I'd rate that particular track as "forgetable" rather than "bad". It's definitely a track I'd skip more often than not if I'm listening to my Maiden playlist. The addition of a voiceover, which I think I recall they planned, in the intro might have made an interesting difference. Much like the other crossover piece I now remember, The Prisoner.
    - phlakaton 7y ago
      If it makes you feel any better, I hear that Frank Herbert didn't like it either. :-)
- 7y ago
rajacombinator 7y ago
Re-reading Dune many years later I found it to be pretty cringey. Laurence of Outer Space basically. Maybe the 2nd book was better ...?
- tom_mellior 7y ago
  I wouldn't have put it like you, but I too was unimpressed by Dune. All the religious/mystical stuff didn't appeal to me at all. I wonder if it's partly an age thing: I only read Dune in my 30s. The more "typical" nerd journey would have been to read it in my teens. I don't know if I would have liked it back then, but I'm sure I would have viewed it differently, both then and now.
- RangerScience 7y ago
  Wow. You, uh, missed, well... a lot. Just on one note, the entire aspect that the prophecies Paul steps into were literally fabricated as sort of sleeper memes for later use? Like, of course that's cringe worthy, of course it reeks of foreign savior complexes, _it was built to be that_. The next three books get increasingly philosophical and many people don't like them, but I very much do.
  - voxl 7y ago
    This may come as a surprise to the fanatics of Dune, but there are actually some of us who finished it and just rolled our eyes at the end. It was subpar for me in just about every way, and cringey would be an apt description of the entire experience.
    - RangerScience 7y ago
      Well, yes. I would go so far to say that _usually_, when one doesn't like something that many other people do, it's because they're missing what drew those other people in.
s_Hogg 7y ago
It's funny how prescient some of the people in the sixties and seventies were. I'd lump Alvin Toffler alongside Frank Herbertm personally. They both had a somewhat weird point about the future (Herbert was kind of looking at a macro level through Paul, Toffler was kind of thinking about something similar at the individual level), and I think they're both slowly being proven right in a way.
thelazydogsback 7y ago
> “Dune” ’s lack of true fandom among science-fiction fans I'm not sure what sci-fi fans he's hanging out with... > This de-emphasis on technology There is de-emphasis on thinking technology -- there is still "magic level" technology everywhere else.
- RangerScience 7y ago
  "What do such machines really do? They increase the number of things we can do without thinking. Things we do without thinking — there's the real danger." - Leto II (in God-Emperor of Dune)
tschellenbach 7y ago
You can download the original Dune game and play it on your macbook: https://gamesnostalgia.com/game/dune https://gamesnostalgia.com/game/dune One of my all time favorite games, played it on the amiga originally
- song 7y ago
  Interestingly both dune and dune 2 were released around the same time and both are amazing. Dune 2 created the rts genre while Dune was a wonderful combination of adventure and strategy. For Dune, I'd recommend the CD version https://www.freegameempire.com/games/Dune-CD https://www.freegameempire.com/games/Dune-CD There's a great series of articles on Filfre about both games and the Dune universe https://www.filfre.net/2018/11/controlling-the-spice-part-1-dune-on-page-and-screen/ https://www.filfre.net/2018/11/controlling-the-spice-part-1-...
  - greggman2 7y ago
    While it's true Dune popularized the RTS genre it wasn't close to the first. I'm sure this one is also not the first but here's Combat Leader for the Atari 800 from 1983 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G5CEA_P9Hc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G5CEA_P9Hc
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    And some nice drum and bass sampling/quoting here: DJ Aphrodite - Spice ( Of The Gods Remix ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Td5sSdbRQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Td5sSdbRQE
    - avyeed_desa 7y ago
      Also a Drum & Bass classic: Paradox - A Certain Sound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4PeZ6YsbQ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4PeZ6YsbQ8
      - z0r 7y ago
        And trance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REFvB1oNOC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REFvB1oNOC0
harry8 7y ago
"Rez", with or without the trance vibrator. With or without the ps4 vr kit. "Fear is the mind killer" liberally riffed the deep house, electronic, call it whatever, is awesome... No popular culture penetration..? Edit link: https://youtu.be/ucuhA-GSGEg https://youtu.be/ucuhA-GSGEg
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
RangerScience 7y ago
IMHO, the works endure in part from the depth and timelessness; the depths with which is explores human fundamentals, and the relative lack of science fiction technologies mean it cannot be dated the same way that, say, Asimov's computers or Star Trek's communicators look odd in light of what is everyday today. I've always loved the fourth book the most, and I've always felt it was most simply described as "Nietzsche's Gay Science, but to a plot." and I will totally talk about this with anyone who wants to.

121 points by smacktoward 7y ago

m0zg 7y ago

I've finally listened to it when I did a 4K mile road trip last year. I highly recommend the Audible rendition of it. It's amazing, and adds the experience you would not get from the book. There are several well-cast voice actors in it, so it's not just a dude reading the book. I especially recommend listening to it as you drive alone through Wyoming in the dead of the night. Experience I will savor when I'm on my deathbed.

koboll 7y ago

>As David Itzkoff noted in 2006, what’s curious about “Dune” ’s stature is that it has not penetrated popular culture in the way that “The Lord of the Rings” and “Star Wars” have. There are no “Dune” conventions. Catchphrases from the book have not entered the language. The movie next year oughta do it, if the star-studded cast and acclaimed director are any indication.

Animats 7y ago
The last Dune movie (1984) didn't do it. "It's like The Last Airbender, but with sand."
- RangerScience 7y ago
  Honestly, IMO, people weren't as good at this kind of movie back then, and audiences were less informed as to genre elements. The weirding way, the Voice, even the psychedelic sequences - these had to be explained, or shown, and how? How do you film these things in a way that audiences can understand? Not saying there's clear answers now, but there's been another thirty years of exploration in how you show weird, hard-to-film genre elements. There's also another entire set of explorations on exactly these things (the Scifi Channel's miniseries) from which to see what works and doesn't.
- cannonedhamster 7y ago
  I might be in the minority but I liked the Dune movie. It introduced the universe, how it worked, had a solid cast. The movie is clearly one from the 80s with it's dedication to atmosphere.
  - airstrike 7y ago
    What you call "dedication to atmosphere" felt just too over the top to many others. From one other review: "The second scene depicts the mysterious “Guild Navigator,” a brainiac character Lynch devises as a literal giant talking brain floating in a tank of brine. His mouth is triangular-shaped. There’s really no clean way of saying this, so here goes: It looks like a vagina. And it secretes gas. Lynch likes to shoot this in graphic close-up, and they’re explicit enough that if you see the film cut on TV, the editors completely omit these shots." https://www.metro.us/entertainment/in-slight-defense-david-lynch-s-dune-isn-t-that-bad/tmWncw---08O6Xetk1qBrk https://www.metro.us/entertainment/in-slight-defense-david-l... I respect your appreciation for the movie, but to most people it's objectively bad. From Wikipedia: "In retrospect, Lynch disowned the film and acknowledged he should never have directed Dune: I started selling out on Dune. Looking back, it's no one's fault but my own. I probably shouldn't have done that picture, but I saw tons and tons of possibilities for things I loved, and this was the structure to do them in. There was so much room to create a world. But I got strong indications from Raffaella and Dino De Laurentiis of what kind of film they expected, and I knew I didn't have final cut." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)#Critical_reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(1984_film)#Critical_rece...
    - emmelaich 7y ago
      The brain in brine thing reminds of the queen insect in Starship Troopers. That last scene with Neil Patrick Harris' character also destroyed that movie for me.
    - cannonedhamster 7y ago
      Yeah I can see that. It's definitely a personal taste thing. I'm just glad that many people have so many different things to enjoy.
- geargrinder 7y ago
  I loved the movie when it was released, and felt it was true in spirit to the book. Sure, some of the details were missed or altered, but that was to be expected in a movie adaptation of a book with so many details. Herbert was on the set and at least had some input. Baron Harkkonen has to be one of the most memorable movie characters ever.
- anotherevan 7y ago
  My summation is that the 1984 movie was both good and original, but the parts that were original were not good, and the parts that were good were not original.
- emmelaich 7y ago
  I loved the book and mostly liked the movie. Some of the movie is fantastic, but some of it is laugh out loud silly. It's one thing to read about the voice and worm-riding, it's very hard to put those into movies. Apparently a new film is being made by Denis Villeneuve. Let's hope for the best. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(2020_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(2020_film)
xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
> Catchphrases from the book have not entered the language. What an odd framing. True, perhaps, but what about from the 1984 movie? > "The spice must flow!" > "If you walk without rhythm, you won't attract the worm" > "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion." Frank Herbert isn't exactly known for succinct, catchy one-liners. Here's at least one I recognize from the book, "Fear is the mind-killer": > "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." Sure, Dune may not be as big as LOTR or Star Wars, but before the blockbuster films, what catchphrases from LOTR were (are?) remotely commonplace?
- slowmovintarget 7y ago
  I, for one, regularly put on my best Max von Sydow impression and say "As to their relationship to the spice... Who knows?"
- sli 7y ago
  > ... what catchphrases from LOTR were (are?) remotely commonplace? "And my axe!" was common enough for a while. Less so now but it's still around. LOTR memes that rely on single lines with varying popularity are pretty common but that's probably stretching it.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
    "My precioussss", "One does not simply walk into Mordor", "Well yes, but what about second lunch?", etc.
    - balfirevic 7y ago
      cough second breakfasts! cough
  - 7y ago

Pfhreak 7y ago

> Catchphrases from the book have not entered the language. The spice must flow? Fear is the mind killer? Christopher Walken dancing to Fatboy Slim's "Weapon of Choice" includes the phrase "Walk without a rhythm, you won't attract the worm". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCDIYvFmgW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCDIYvFmgW8 Maybe to a lesser extent, "He who controls the spice controls the universe", "wheels within wheels", and the gom jabbar are all things I've heard people reference. It's definitely entered the language. Maybe not as deeply as Star Wars, but it's not absent either.

hanoz 7y ago
This is my favourite film so I'm pretty tuned in to these phrases, and I've never heard anyone use any of them. I'm also pretty sure there's no "wheels within wheels" in it.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  Dune is a book. The movie is just a horrible adaptation of that book.
  - hanoz 7y ago
    Ah, sorry. I'd somehow got it into my head that we were specifically talking about the movie. I do love the book too. But the movie is better.
    - sgt101 7y ago
      >I do love the book too. But the movie is better. there must be other people who believe that, but I've never met any of them.
      - johncoltrane 7y ago
        One more, here.

richk449 7y ago

Author seems overly dismissive of the sequels. While they aren’t as great as the first, many of them are still very good books with interesting ideas. The stuff written by others (not Frank Herbert) on the other hand, does seem to be dreck based on my sampling.

tedivm 7y ago
The biggest flaw with the sequels is that they end up not ending- in the same way the Dune Messiah was a setup for Children of Dune, it seems that Heretics and Chapterhouse were leading up to the seventh book that Herbert died before writing.
- geargrinder 7y ago
  His son Brian and Kevin J Anderson did write the last installment based on detailed notes from Frank Herbert, so at least the story is complete. While their writing is not as brilliant as Frank Herbert's, the books they wrote, mainly the prequels, have helped me understand just how big the original vision was and have helped me enjoy the sequels more. God Emperor is truly as masterpiece, but it took a couple of reads, and the sequels, for me to appreciate it more.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    Correction: Brian and KJA had access to detailed notes from Frank Herbert, and used none of them in favor of KJA's "improvements" to the Dune mythos. The same way KJA "improved" Star Wars. His wife, incidentally the editor-in-chief of the publishing imprint that then owned the publishing rights to the Star Wars and Dune literary universes, is to blame for unleashing his word vomit on mankind.
    - etiam 7y ago
      I've been yearning to read those notes for decades now. Any idea of their situation? Is there a chance they'll ever be released?

oska 7y ago

I recently found the Macmillian audiobook of Dune through my local library service and have been listening to it. It's an 'acted' audiobook in that there is a narrator but also different voices for speech by the different characters. It's quite good and has been a nice way to revisit a book that blew my mind as a 12 year old.

sillydinosaur 7y ago

Walk without rhythm so you don't attract the Wyrm.

pmoriarty 7y ago

"One winter evening, I heard him read my mother a passage about a young man named Paul Atreides who was forced to place his hand into the blackness of a box while an old woman, the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam, held a poison needle at his neck, the gom jabbar. Though I didn't realize it at the time, this was the opening chapter of Dune. Pauls' hand would feel intense pain, the wrinkled crone told him, but if he withdrew it from the box she would kill him with the poison needle. I was transfixed by the drama of the scene and by the strange words... gom jabbar, Maud'Dib, the Gesserit, jihad, kull wahad.. the throaty, mysterious resonance of words and names as they rolled off Dad's tongue, in his powerful voice. I was intrigued by the sounds. And by the way the Reverend Mother used "the Voice" on Paul to control him, similar to methods my father often employed against me. "The language is beautiful," Mom said, after listening to the chapter. Frequently over the years she spoke of the poetry of his writing, and rarely made suggestions for improvement in that area. Her comments primarily concerned plot when she thought he was getting too convoluted, and characterization, particularly the motivational aspects of female characters. I heard Dad speak passages aloud in his study as he wrote them, before presenting them to my mother. He understood the psychology of human society, the way stories had been told orally for centuries before anything was ever written down. The way troubadours and jongleurs traveled from castle to castle, telling tales and singing songs. He believed readers subconsciously heard the written text through their ears, receiving them as oral transmissions. As a consequence, he labored long hours to obtain just the right word selection and rhythm. The best writing, he believed, touched the subconscious. He enjoyed relating his stories to my mother, a process that recalled times as a boy spent around scouting campfires when he captivated the attention of scouts and scoutmasters alike. It brought back as well darkened bedrooms Frank Herbert shared with his cousins, in which they hung on his every word. Mom enjoyed hearing his tales. She was an excellent listener, as she had been in her childhood when her Scottish father told her clever mystery stories about caves and secret panels..." -- Brian Herbert on his father, Frank Herbert

s_Hogg 7y ago
Why is Brian Herbert as lucid as this talking about his dad, but so terrible when trying to write a book following on from his work? Bit of a puzzle to me.

emmelaich 7y ago

(2013)

phlakaton 7y ago

No book with an Iron Maiden song made in its tribute qualifies as "not having penetrated the popular culture." It's merely taken a path through the culture more befitting its challenging material. It is not a book for tawdry conventions and endless merchandising. It is a book for parents to introduce to their children, with a sly smile, on a free weekend, when they have come of age. It's the progressive rock of science fiction novels. ;-)

stevekemp 7y ago
For the curious the song is "To Tame a Land (1983)", and was going to be called Dune, but permission was not granted. When I think of unexpected Maiden I recall The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, but this was a good crossover too.
- ozim 7y ago
  I am not amused by that song, feels like cheap capitalization on "Dune" popularity at the time. Lyrics are nothing special, sounds are quite ok but I take "Wasted years" over this any time. Sounds like Sabbaton, who is capitalizing on "battle songs" for different countries. It is not like I don't like Iron Maiden but yeah, there is some metal band somewhere doing "Harry Potter" metal song. Though maybe I am too cynical :)
  - stevekemp 7y ago
    I've bought every Maiden album released, up until the mid nineties, and I'd rate that particular track as "forgetable" rather than "bad". It's definitely a track I'd skip more often than not if I'm listening to my Maiden playlist. The addition of a voiceover, which I think I recall they planned, in the intro might have made an interesting difference. Much like the other crossover piece I now remember, The Prisoner.
  - phlakaton 7y ago
    If it makes you feel any better, I hear that Frank Herbert didn't like it either. :-)
7y ago

rajacombinator 7y ago

Re-reading Dune many years later I found it to be pretty cringey. Laurence of Outer Space basically. Maybe the 2nd book was better ...?

tom_mellior 7y ago
I wouldn't have put it like you, but I too was unimpressed by Dune. All the religious/mystical stuff didn't appeal to me at all. I wonder if it's partly an age thing: I only read Dune in my 30s. The more "typical" nerd journey would have been to read it in my teens. I don't know if I would have liked it back then, but I'm sure I would have viewed it differently, both then and now.
RangerScience 7y ago
Wow. You, uh, missed, well... a lot. Just on one note, the entire aspect that the prophecies Paul steps into were literally fabricated as sort of sleeper memes for later use? Like, of course that's cringe worthy, of course it reeks of foreign savior complexes, _it was built to be that_. The next three books get increasingly philosophical and many people don't like them, but I very much do.
- voxl 7y ago
  This may come as a surprise to the fanatics of Dune, but there are actually some of us who finished it and just rolled our eyes at the end. It was subpar for me in just about every way, and cringey would be an apt description of the entire experience.
  - RangerScience 7y ago
    Well, yes. I would go so far to say that _usually_, when one doesn't like something that many other people do, it's because they're missing what drew those other people in.

s_Hogg 7y ago

It's funny how prescient some of the people in the sixties and seventies were. I'd lump Alvin Toffler alongside Frank Herbertm personally. They both had a somewhat weird point about the future (Herbert was kind of looking at a macro level through Paul, Toffler was kind of thinking about something similar at the individual level), and I think they're both slowly being proven right in a way.

thelazydogsback 7y ago

> “Dune” ’s lack of true fandom among science-fiction fans I'm not sure what sci-fi fans he's hanging out with... > This de-emphasis on technology There is de-emphasis on thinking technology -- there is still "magic level" technology everywhere else.

RangerScience 7y ago
"What do such machines really do? They increase the number of things we can do without thinking. Things we do without thinking — there's the real danger." - Leto II (in God-Emperor of Dune)

tschellenbach 7y ago

You can download the original Dune game and play it on your macbook: https://gamesnostalgia.com/game/dune https://gamesnostalgia.com/game/dune One of my all time favorite games, played it on the amiga originally

song 7y ago
Interestingly both dune and dune 2 were released around the same time and both are amazing. Dune 2 created the rts genre while Dune was a wonderful combination of adventure and strategy. For Dune, I'd recommend the CD version https://www.freegameempire.com/games/Dune-CD https://www.freegameempire.com/games/Dune-CD There's a great series of articles on Filfre about both games and the Dune universe https://www.filfre.net/2018/11/controlling-the-spice-part-1-dune-on-page-and-screen/ https://www.filfre.net/2018/11/controlling-the-spice-part-1-...
- greggman2 7y ago
  While it's true Dune popularized the RTS genre it wasn't close to the first. I'm sure this one is also not the first but here's Combat Leader for the Atari 800 from 1983 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G5CEA_P9Hc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G5CEA_P9Hc
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  And some nice drum and bass sampling/quoting here: DJ Aphrodite - Spice ( Of The Gods Remix ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Td5sSdbRQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Td5sSdbRQE
  - avyeed_desa 7y ago
    Also a Drum & Bass classic: Paradox - A Certain Sound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4PeZ6YsbQ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4PeZ6YsbQ8
    - z0r 7y ago
      And trance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REFvB1oNOC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REFvB1oNOC0

harry8 7y ago

"Rez", with or without the trance vibrator. With or without the ps4 vr kit. "Fear is the mind killer" liberally riffed the deep house, electronic, call it whatever, is awesome... No popular culture penetration..? Edit link: https://youtu.be/ucuhA-GSGEg https://youtu.be/ucuhA-GSGEg

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

RangerScience 7y ago

IMHO, the works endure in part from the depth and timelessness; the depths with which is explores human fundamentals, and the relative lack of science fiction technologies mean it cannot be dated the same way that, say, Asimov's computers or Star Trek's communicators look odd in light of what is everyday today. I've always loved the fourth book the most, and I've always felt it was most simply described as "Nietzsche's Gay Science, but to a plot." and I will totally talk about this with anyone who wants to.