4 ms·

I dunno, I feel like there is a very solid user experience argument for not allowing the average person to do this. For those of you who are old enough, think b

I dunno, I feel like there is a very solid user experience argument for not allowing the average person to do this. For those of you who are old enough, think back to all the sh*t your mom/uncle/grandparent would load up on their Windows 95 desktop. Now make it 100x easier to install an app. Seems like a recipe for disaster, for the average case anyways.

chii 7y ago
so the question is whether user freedom is a better tradeoff. I will quote Benjamin Franklin " Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
- sneak 7y ago
  Good thing you can still buy and use other phones that will run any malware you wish. It’s not a question of freedom.
  - Aeolun 7y ago
    Given the number of things that only run on an iPhone, I’m inclined to disagree.
    - etatoby 7y ago
      Such as?
- userbinator 7y ago
  That infamous quote has gotten rather a lot of visibility within the past few years, AFAIK it gained popularity shortly after Secure Boot and Cory Doctor's articles that started the term "war on general-purpose computing" became well known, over 7 years ago: https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html A few more relevant quotes: "Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes." -Gandhi "Insecurity is freedom." -(various)
chillacy 7y ago
macOS presents a nice model where by default the computer is locked down but you can disable code signing checks to run 3rd party apps at your own risk.
folkhack 7y ago
> think back to all the sh*t your mom/uncle/grandparent would load up on their Windows 95 desktop So what. Should my computing experience be crippled because people are ignorant to security practices? Should we hold the market back because uncle Marty keeps visiting gross sites with Internet Explorer?...
- remus 7y ago
  When uncle Marty and aunt Mavis are 99% of your users then yes, it does make sense.
- matwood 7y ago
  > Should my computing experience be crippled because people are ignorant to security practices? But it's not. You don't have to buy an iPhone. This isn't some bait and switch tactic. People who buy iPhones know the App Store is where they get software.
43920 7y ago
The big difference is that iOS/Android are sandboxed, whereas Windows gave every app access to anything. Even if you do manage to install malware on your device, the potential for damage is much more limited.
- sneak 7y ago
  Uploading all your contacts and photos to malicious attackers is not “much more limited” damage; we keep a lot more important data on our devices now than we used to.
  - Aeolun 7y ago
    Even so, people should be free to fuck themselves over. Removing the possibility for everyone just because you don’t trust users to take care of themselves is such a sad way of thinking.
    - hyperbovine 7y ago
      No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone or use iOS. I'd say the market has spoken on the whole curated app store thing, and it largely doesn't give a hoot. There are entire phone OSs built for people just like you. Vote with your feet and your wallet.
      - matwood 7y ago
        > I'd say the market has spoken on the whole curated app store thing, and it largely doesn't give a hoot. I would say the market even prefers the App Store model. Google/Android is working more towards the Apple model and not the other way around.
    - bonoboTP 7y ago
      Think about it from Apple's point of view. If they make app installation easy from anywhere, you soon end up with tons of ads, popups etc. that direct you to a crappy app's site, which is either just very badly designed or straight up malware. And the average user will download them, just like they have been doing it on Windows (ever looked at non-technical people's computers? Remember toolbars?). Then people end up complaining about the manufacturer of the computer because they don't understand the difference. Windows used to be blamed for being slow after people installed all sorts of garbage on it. Similarly, in the minds of non-technical people, Apple would be blamed for making their iPhone experience clumsy and frustrating. Apple support will be called when they lose data or get their nudes stolen. Apple wants everyday users to have a streamlined, simple, "just works" experience. It is a common principle in many other facets of life. You can't just buy any prescription medicine for example, even though theoretically a well-prepared patient with access to the newest medical literature could figure out what he needs. But the vast majority most definitely cannot and relies on some kind of access-filter.

chii 7y ago

so the question is whether user freedom is a better tradeoff. I will quote Benjamin Franklin " Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."

sneak 7y ago
Good thing you can still buy and use other phones that will run any malware you wish. It’s not a question of freedom.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  Given the number of things that only run on an iPhone, I’m inclined to disagree.
  - etatoby 7y ago
    Such as?
userbinator 7y ago
That infamous quote has gotten rather a lot of visibility within the past few years, AFAIK it gained popularity shortly after Secure Boot and Cory Doctor's articles that started the term "war on general-purpose computing" became well known, over 7 years ago: https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html A few more relevant quotes: "Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes." -Gandhi "Insecurity is freedom." -(various)

chillacy 7y ago

macOS presents a nice model where by default the computer is locked down but you can disable code signing checks to run 3rd party apps at your own risk.

folkhack 7y ago

> think back to all the sh*t your mom/uncle/grandparent would load up on their Windows 95 desktop So what. Should my computing experience be crippled because people are ignorant to security practices? Should we hold the market back because uncle Marty keeps visiting gross sites with Internet Explorer?...

remus 7y ago
When uncle Marty and aunt Mavis are 99% of your users then yes, it does make sense.
matwood 7y ago
> Should my computing experience be crippled because people are ignorant to security practices? But it's not. You don't have to buy an iPhone. This isn't some bait and switch tactic. People who buy iPhones know the App Store is where they get software.

43920 7y ago

The big difference is that iOS/Android are sandboxed, whereas Windows gave every app access to anything. Even if you do manage to install malware on your device, the potential for damage is much more limited.

sneak 7y ago
Uploading all your contacts and photos to malicious attackers is not “much more limited” damage; we keep a lot more important data on our devices now than we used to.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  Even so, people should be free to fuck themselves over. Removing the possibility for everyone just because you don’t trust users to take care of themselves is such a sad way of thinking.
  - hyperbovine 7y ago
    No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone or use iOS. I'd say the market has spoken on the whole curated app store thing, and it largely doesn't give a hoot. There are entire phone OSs built for people just like you. Vote with your feet and your wallet.
    - matwood 7y ago
      > I'd say the market has spoken on the whole curated app store thing, and it largely doesn't give a hoot. I would say the market even prefers the App Store model. Google/Android is working more towards the Apple model and not the other way around.
  - bonoboTP 7y ago
    Think about it from Apple's point of view. If they make app installation easy from anywhere, you soon end up with tons of ads, popups etc. that direct you to a crappy app's site, which is either just very badly designed or straight up malware. And the average user will download them, just like they have been doing it on Windows (ever looked at non-technical people's computers? Remember toolbars?). Then people end up complaining about the manufacturer of the computer because they don't understand the difference. Windows used to be blamed for being slow after people installed all sorts of garbage on it. Similarly, in the minds of non-technical people, Apple would be blamed for making their iPhone experience clumsy and frustrating. Apple support will be called when they lose data or get their nudes stolen. Apple wants everyday users to have a streamlined, simple, "just works" experience. It is a common principle in many other facets of life. You can't just buy any prescription medicine for example, even though theoretically a well-prepared patient with access to the newest medical literature could figure out what he needs. But the vast majority most definitely cannot and relies on some kind of access-filter.