24 ms·

WARP is here

• fnordsensei 7y ago
  I'd perhaps consider Warp+ on a computer or the router, but on the phone it seems a bit overkill. (Though I haven't tried it. So far I haven't received the 10gb Argo credits described, despite being on the waiting list for yonks)
  • croon 7y ago
    Same here regarding the 10GB, and have been on the wait list since April 1st.
    • Pfhreak 7y ago
      Yep. Same here. I assume they are working through the waitlist. I'm going to give them a couple days to get it sorted before asking customer support about it. Edit: My 10GB came through. Looks like release day latency.
      • max23_ 7y ago
        Same, just receive the notification about the 10GB.
• throwaway9d0291 7y ago
  I'd really like to use this on my computer. The article says it uses the WireGuard protocol, can I just take the private key from my device, put it in a configuration file and use it?
  • fnordsensei 7y ago
    They've said elsewhere[1] that they're are working on desktop apps. No time frame yet. If you can extract the endpoints, private and public keys, it might work. It would be considered unsupported and might be considered a violation of the terms of use. Check the license agreement. 1: https://community.cloudflare.com/t/warp-desktop/79072 https://community.cloudflare.com/t/warp-desktop/79072
    • judge2020 7y ago
      Note that while community MVPs (FD: I'm one of them) are generally good for answers, they don't represent Cloudflare or speak for them. That answer is correct, but official word is here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21071258 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21071258
  • eastdakota 7y ago
    We plan to provide desktop versions. That’s, frankly, a piece of cake compared to mobile, so the wait shouldn’t be too long.
  • trollied 7y ago
    How to use it on macOS: https://twitter.com/saurik/status/1176893448445558784?s=21 https://twitter.com/saurik/status/1176893448445558784?s=21 (Not my Twitter account, just saw it on my timeline)
• Pigo 7y ago
  It sounds like an interesting product, but I'm wary of anything put out by the arbiters of the internet.
  • AznHisoka 7y ago
    Personally, I'd feel safer using this vs any other random VPN service. At least these guys have a reputation at stake, if people discovered they were selling your data.
  • fnordsensei 7y ago
    If you're dealing with adversarial middle-men, it could be OK. I lived in a country where everything inside the country right up to the border could be considered adversarial. If it brings competition to the shady VPN-peddlers, and is easy to download and get going, I'll consider it a net positive, all-in-all, regardless whether I'll use it personally or not.
  • Pfhreak 7y ago
    Really? The arbiters of the internet? You don't think that's maybe a little melodramatic? Cloudflare has, time and time again demonstrated openness, transparency, and insight into their technical and ethical frameworks. I trust them a whole lot more than my isp or any random vpn provider.
    • falcolas 7y ago
      > The arbiters of the internet? You don't think that's maybe a little melodramatic? As someone who has browsed sites "powered by cloudflare" over Tor and been tossed into an infinite "are you human" loop, it certainly doesn't feel melodramatic. They've also exercised power over websites based on moral outrage. Perhaps 99.999% of people agree with the morals behind this decision, and maybe it's even the right decision, but it's still an arbitrary decision made by Cloudflare. They are also bound by US law, and other entities bound by US law have been forced to enable the exact same forms of record keeping that Cloudflare says they will keep turned off. Cloudflare is not a neutral party. They don't even advertise themselves as a neutral party.
• pingec 7y ago
  Since Cloudflare have their own network, would this be useful to use in countries where they have a reliable home internet but poor (bad latency/speed) links outside of the country? For example would remote desktop from Thailand or Philippines to Europe work more reliably?
  • jgrahamc 7y ago
    Probably. That's the sort of thing that WARP Plus can help with.
• peterwwillis 7y ago
  > WARP, instead, is built for the average consumer. It’s built to ensure that your data is secured while it’s in transit. So the networks between you and the applications you’re using can’t spy on you. It will help protect you from people sniffing your data while you’re at a local coffee shop. It will also help ensure that your ISP isn’t hoovering up data on your browsing patterns to sell to advertisers. Most of those consumers aren't aware of any of that, so if you want them to use it, you'll have to pay for marketing to bring it to their attention. Is that the plan?
  • lm28469 7y ago
    They also states: > Before today, there were approximately two million people on the waitlist to try WARP. That demand blew us away. It also embarrassed us. The common refrain is consumers don’t care about their security and privacy, but the attention WARP got proved to us how wrong that assumption actually is.
    • deleted 7y ago
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    • deleted 7y ago
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    • asdkhadsj 7y ago
      I feel like that misses the point though. I'd be shocked (and happily wrong) if a large portion of those 2M users are none technical average people. If anything, all I would take from that number is that the tech crowd is perhaps larger than people give it credit for. But I highly doubt that waitlist expands highly beyond the tech crowd. Happy to be wrong, though :)
  • e12e 7y ago
    I'm not sure why I'd trust cloudflare (a company who's business it is to know all about traffic flows and usage patterns) more than a traditional back bone provider?
• eis 7y ago
  The article mentions that WARP is exposing the end user's IP to websites they visit. I'd be interested in how they do that, especially with HTTPS websites where they can't MITM and inject headers. > WARP is not designed to allow you to access geo-restricted content when you’re traveling. It will not hide your IP address from the websites you visit.
  • deleted 7y ago
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  • aasdasdasdasd 7y ago
    The requests come from a CloudFlare address range -- my original IP isn't visible to the server. Not sure what they mean either.
    • deleted 7y ago
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    • xuki 7y ago
      It passes on your IP address if the website you're visiting is using CF. See for yourself: https://icanhazip.com https://icanhazip.com - on CF network https://ifconfig.me https://ifconfig.me - not on CF network
      • deleted 7y ago
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  • zackbloom 7y ago
    Great eye! We haven't figured out how to expose them yet for sites not using Cloudflare. We do have some experience solving this problem for Spectrum [1] we're hoping to lean on. The most important thing to us is users don't expect us to keep their IP private, as that is not the intent of WARP. 1- https://blog.cloudflare.com/mmproxy-creative-way-of-preserving-client-ips-in-spectrum/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/mmproxy-creative-way-of-preservi...
    • 7y ago
• steveklabnik 7y ago
  There's also a technical version of this post: https://blog.cloudflare.com/warp-technical-challenges/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/warp-technical-challenges/ I'm hyped to see Rust code running on so many phones.
  • saagarjha 7y ago
    I wonder if any popular applications for a mobile platform ship with Rust code already.
    • steveklabnik 7y ago
      There have been some instances of this before; at least one game was implemented in Rust. But, given the length of the Warp waitlist, I'm pretty sure this is the most popular application so far. There could be things I don't know about though, at this point Rust is big enough that not everyone who uses it talks about it publicly.
      • littlestymaar 7y ago
        Isn't Firefox using at least some Rust on the Android version?
        • steveklabnik 7y ago
          I forget the status of that, you may be right! That'd be a large deploy too. The intention was to do that, for sure, I'm just not sure if it shipped or not.
          • sanxiyn 7y ago
            Stylo (Rust rewrite of CSS engine) shipped for Android in Firefox 60, released in 2018. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Releases/60 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Rel...
• hckrzulu 7y ago
  How would this work together with nextdns.io?
  • ac29 7y ago
    On Android it doesn't appear to override private DNS settings, so its working just fine for me with Adguard DNS. I think nextdns works the same way. I'm surprised, but pleased that you can use WARP without 1.1.1.1 DNS. Hopefully thats not a bug.
    • hckrzulu 7y ago
      On iOS it doesn't seem to work. It's either WARP or nextdns. A quick google search taught me all "custom" dns setups on iOS require some sort of VPN-like solution (very much like the nextdns.io iOS app does). Back to nextdns then, has more value to me.
• mwcampbell 7y ago
  I was openly critical of Cloudflare when they announced Warp the first time. My accusations were over-reaching, and I ultimately retracted them. But I'm still skeptical, and I still won't use Warp. Here's what still bothers me: Cloudflare is a single company with points of presence all over the world, handling traffic for websites all over the world (including some big ones), and now trying to attract consumers worldwide to proxy their traffic through its network. That's a lot of power, and we all know the saying about power and corruption. It doesn't matter how conscientious the leadership are. I'd prefer that the temptation to abuse that power was just not there at all. My idea of a better Internet is a return to the way the Internet was -- a large number of small providers, communicating with each other over open standard protocols. So, yes, I should switch to something other than Comcast here in my apartment. So far, I've been afraid that doing that would leave me with a truly abysmal quality of service. (I'm in Bellevue, Washington.) But at least I can avoid adding Cloudflare, with its terrifying power, to the mix. Granted, I mostly use the Internet on a stationary computer with a cable connection at home. About the only thing I do on my phone away from a WiFi connection is request an Uber ride. And I do need that to work reliably. But it is working just fine without Warp. So, maybe Warp is just not for me. Still, for the people that would benefit, I'm afraid of how much more power they're going to be giving Cloudflare when they tap that "on" button.
  • aasdasdasdasd 7y ago
    When I look at friends and family, they use their phones for everything because Computer UX failed. And they will switch to whatever public WiFi is available because their expensive yet small mobile data plan. I can see how some people would benefit from this kind of VPN.
    • deleted 7y ago
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    • mwcampbell 7y ago
      Another commenter on this thread said that there are already VPN services with Wireguard support and easy-to-use apps. Why not recommend those to friends and family?
• philliphaydon 7y ago
  I switched it on this morning and switched it off again after 10 minutes. It was so slow I couldn’t load web pages or send messages on WhatsApp. Maybe too many people joining in a short time.
  • zackbloom 7y ago
    Please be sure to file a bug report in the app if you can. Every report helps us fix issues and make WARP better.
    • philliphaydon 7y ago
      I didn’t think it was a bug. Just too much load. Will try again in a day or so.
      • sp332 7y ago
        On the contrary, filing a bug report now can help them get it sorted out before lots of other people run into the same problem.
        • vxNsr 7y ago
          He's saying the issue wasn't a specific bug, rather they just haven't turned on enough capacity.
          • sp332 7y ago
            Yes but this is unlikely given CF's response. If they were short on capacity they wouldn't turn on two million people in one day and then ask for bug reports.
• jstewartmobile 7y ago
  So, pay money to the unaccountable de facto internet police in the age of "HTTPS everywhere" for a VPN that "will not hide your IP address from the websites you visit"? It's not April Fools... Is this SV's version of "pull my finger"?
  • Spooky23 7y ago
    Sometimes you need to make pragmatic choices. There are scenarios where you may be more concerned about the folks running (or not running) the local network that you are operating on than the larger surveillance operation.
    • jstewartmobile 7y ago
      Fair enough, but what's the advantage of this over any other VPN that doesn't expose your IP?
• ksec 7y ago
  Just wanted to say Thank You. I could only wish this was released a little sooner, but better late than Never. The Hong Kong people desperately need something like this to avoid ISP monitoring. I wonder if something similar is planned for Windows and Mac? P.S Regarding the 10GB, have been on the waiting list since April 1st, nothing shown up yet.
  • ianmurrays 7y ago
    I don't see it either, perhaps a slow rollout?
    • sigjuice 7y ago
      I’m still #700K on the Warp waitlist Edit: And the wait is over!! WARP is now available!
      • deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      • sigjuice 7y ago
        Nope. They put me on the waitlist again at #2.008M
        • zackbloom 7y ago
          That doesn't seem right. Please submit an issue via the in-app feedback form and we'll get it fixed.
        • mr_toad 7y ago
          It’s like a progress bar for the internet.
  • zackbloom 7y ago
    We're working our way through the waitlist now, hoping to get to everyone today. If you have an up-to-date version of the 1.1.1.1 app running you'll get a push notification when we are ready for you to opt-into WARP.
• kylehotchkiss 7y ago
  Super excited to give this a few month paid trial. I've seen time and time again that Cloudflare takes the value of privacy seriously. Alternative VPNs seem to be running on AWS or GCP anyways. I spend a lot of time outside the USA and have privacy concerns a bit beyond USAs typical data collection. I've been enjoying the 1.1.1.1 app since April without issues. I'd love to see the speed comparison examples soon!
• kristofferR 7y ago
  It's borderline unusable for me. It takes 20 seconds for every YouTube video to load while they load instantaneous without WARP: https://streamable.com/9tp1k https://streamable.com/9tp1k
  • eastdakota 7y ago
    Please file a bug report.
    • flarex 7y ago
      I'm having problems recording the screen and playing back the video when reporting a bug.
  • judge2020 7y ago
    YT is the only problem for me, likely something to do with YouTube trying to use gQUIC (but I'm not sure).
  • assafmo 7y ago
    Also for me. Instagram, Facebook, WhatsApp and Google Photos just load forever. Android 8.1.
  • opdahl 7y ago
    Same for me. Uninstalled because of this. I feel for those people that won’t understand that the app that says they will get faster speed is the one slowing them down.
• atonse 7y ago
  Great news! I'm still 155k on the warp waitlist since April. Is there a plan to push the waitlist along? I'd love to get my non-tech family on this.
  • zackbloom 7y ago
    Yes, we are running through the waitlist now. Our hope is to get everyone activated today.
    • atonse 7y ago
      Awesome, thank you :)
• cocoggu 7y ago
  Works fine in Beijing, thanks!
  • AznHisoka 7y ago
    Are u able to browse blocked sites with it on? IE Gmail, Youtube, etc.
• Sami_Lehtinen 7y ago
  Nobody mentioned IPv6 support yet. It's nice as well. There are many VPN providers out there without IPv6 support.
• abtinf 7y ago
  Can someone explain the difference between warp and warp+? I’ve read the blog and the App Store description, both of which completely fail to identify the difference.
  • zackbloom 7y ago
    Hopefully I can! WARP uses a protocol called WireGuard to secure your Internet traffic. Your encrypted traffic flows over that protocol to the closest Cloudflare data center before it is released onto the public Internet. WARP+ takes that one step further. Rather than releasing your traffic directly onto the Internet, we use all the data we have from our Argo product [1] to route your traffic to _another_ Cloudflare data center via the route over the Internet with the best possible performance. That data center will be closer to your traffic's destination, hopefully improving the performance. In effect your traffic will bypass Internet congestion and slow links with the goal of better time-to-first-byte performance. 1- https://www.cloudflare.com/products/argo-smart-routing/ https://www.cloudflare.com/products/argo-smart-routing/
    • commoner 7y ago
      Why should a user pay $4.99/month for Warp+ when they can pay less than that for a traditional VPN that masks their IP address? Does the performance benefit make up for the relatively weaker privacy?
      • zackbloom 7y ago
        If you are hoping to mask your IP you should probably use a traditional VPN and not WARP. WARP doesn't compete with VPNs, it is for everyone who would or could never use a VPN.
      • acdha 7y ago
        For me, it’s a trust issue: it’s quite hard to evaluate VPN providers so many people might prefer to use a company with substantial visibility and other businesses at risk if they break their privacy guarantees.
    • 7y ago
• the_duke 7y ago
  I can't really see the value proposition here. Most use a VPN to add a layer of anonymity (hidden IP) and to circumvent geo blocking. All this does is hide unencrypted traffic from the local network and maybe give a moderate speedup, but one that will probably be restricted to non-Cloudflare properties. For other properties, especially high-traffic ones with their own fancy routing logic, this will probably be more detrimental than helpful. Admittedly a lot of people also just use VPNs because of the countless ads telling them that the Web is terribly insecure without one. I don't see this being much of a success without big ad spending. Might work out just fine for CF, but I will pass.
  • nlh 7y ago
    I'm in the (likely) target demographic for this (and just signed up for the paid version). I don't care about true anonymity or geo-blocking - what I care about is that Verizon/Comcast both do HEAVY traffic shaping to suit them, not me. I.e. I'm promised "720p" video quality on Netflix when streaming over LTE and yet, for some strange reason that goly gee I can't quite understand (/s) it's never very good and always slow, even with full signal. I'd rather just encrypt all my traffic and let Cloudflare make the routing decisions - that alone is worth an extra $5/month.
    • rsync 7y ago
      I don't understand how "Warp" would help you in the long run - wouldn't we expect Verizon et. al to treat cloudflare endpoints as "suspect" or "throttle-worthy" ? TOR endpoints are discriminated against by many endpoints and providers - why not Warp endpoints ?
      • DenseComet 7y ago
        Likely because Warp endpoints are the same as cloudflare endpoints, which also includes a large portion of the web.
• stunt 7y ago
  Nothing is free!
• sb057 7y ago
  Does WARP block access to websites that Cloudflare has specifically denied a platform to their other services? It only makes sense that if they refused to do business with a website because they are "an environment that revels in violating [the spirit of anti-hate law]" that they would also prevent end-users from accessing it under the same grounds, no?
• kd3 7y ago
  Thanks but no thanks Matthew. Cloudflare cannot be trusted. We'll use Wireguard instead.
• tosh 7y ago
  Super excited about 1.1.1. Warp. kudos @ launching, have been waiting for this How I see it: a well operated VPN service for whenever you trust Cloudflare more than the internet connection you’re currently on (coffee shop or airport wifi, co-working space, random mobile ISP when traveling or even at home, …). Compare this to the current best alternative: difficult to evaluate VPNs ranging from paid to free & non-trivial to set up. Not saying there are no alternatives but even for me it is not easy to tell which ones are actually better or in the same ballpark (@ trust, speed, ops-skills, …) let alone for the longtail of users who would be better off with something like Cloudflare than with a random shady VPN or nothing.
• hecatoncheires 7y ago
  If I were to use a VPN I'd stick with providers with proven track records of responding to court orders with empty logs, not the company with a CEO who capriciously kicks sites off their platform in response to online mobs. I'd also feel very uneasy with continuing to feed the consolidation of the internet's traffic. Giving full control of your phone's routing to Cloudflare is sold as improving performance, but what it also does is give Cloudflare a lot of flexibility to pay less in transit costs and have a stronger position for peering agreements. Today that might be good in preventing ISP shakedowns, but very bad tomorrow if ISPs have to pay Cloudflare for the privilege of accessing the majority of the internet.
  • sp332 7y ago
    This is funny to me because CF's previous reputation was that they'd do business with anyone no matter how scummy. They're notorious for selling to both sides when criminal gangs were DDoS'ing each other. But they terminate service for a grand total of two sites and suddenly they're "capricious".
    • hecatoncheires 7y ago
      Sorry but when it comes to VPN providers you have to have a pristine track record, not a couple whoopsies here and there. And I doubt that grand total is going to stay stuck at two when they're hiring Antifa supporters/members.
    • makomk 7y ago
      As far as I know, CloudFlare are still willing to provide service to all of the DDoS services that let anyone with a few dollars knock any company which doesn't buy from CloudFlare off the internet. They just don't have the excuse that they're doing it out of some kind of belief in free speech anymore.
• sigmar 7y ago
  [In order to not spread bad info I'm deleting my paragraph where I misunderstand what WARP is] Even this blog post is confusing "From a technical perspective, WARP is a VPN." Then contrasts WARP with a "traditional VPN"
  • rrss 7y ago
    Pretty sure warp is a vpn. The "just DNS queries" service is 1.1.1.1 without warp.
  • zackbloom 7y ago
    This is incorrect. WARP is the VPN, WARP+ is a series of routing enhancements designed to improve performance. Sorry for the confusion, clearly we need to explain it better.
    • sigmar 7y ago
      Ah. I turned on WARP, then googled "what is my ip?" and it is returning the IP address that I had before turning on WARP. Is that not the intended behavior? edit: read your other comments and see this is (in some circumstances) intended behavior. I don't think you should claim WARP is a VPN if you aren't offering privacy from the endpoint. Perhaps the app should say "your browsing traffic is now private" rather than "your internet is private."
• xwdv 7y ago
  Just a reminder that Cloudflare is now a publicly traded company, and if you would have bought at the IPO at $18 you would be up 15% by now, with more expected to come.
• Fjolsvith 7y ago
  All I have to say about this is 8chan.
  • sp332 7y ago
    You know why I'm comfortable with Cloudflare after the 8chan decision? It's because they were uncomfortable making it. Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/ This is an unsolved problem so I don't blame anyone for not having the solution. But I especially appreciate people and companies who are humble enough to admit that they don't have the solution.
    • gergles 7y ago
      Yet they did it anyway, so it sounds like they sure did make the determination on what's good or bad, just accompanied with some hand-wringing in a blog post. Real humility would have been not making the decision and instead lobbying for someone with the 'political legitimacy' to do so. Cloudflare pretending like they're neutral in one corner while gleefully cutting off service to anyone who offends cancel culture in the other is gross, and they certainly shouldn't be praised for it.
• WhompingWindows 7y ago
  Can someone here give me a layman's rundown of WARP and why I might want to use it on my Android phone?
  • Pfhreak 7y ago
    When you use the internet, your ISP (and some others) can see where you are going. They might sell that info to advertisers, or you might be blocked from accessing some websites depending on your country. Warp essentially shields where you are going. The only folks knowing where you go are you, your destination, and Warp. Warp+ also gives you access to a private, faster network.
• xorcist 7y ago
  I fully understand why a company would like to launch this type of service. This is the free market after all, and it would make the company insanely valuable, should it succeed. However I do have an issue with the marketing behind it. While not said outright, there is a clear message here that due to some unspecified magic your network performance will increase. That's clearly stretching the laws of physics, at the very least. There are also nebulous privacy statements which looks conspicuously like services that shield your identity, which does not seem to be the case here. If the real intent here is to help underprivileged Internet users escape their great firewall, onboarding some regular users might be necessary to make the service more legitimate. However even a generous reading of this announcement does not seem to support this use case. The consumer VPN business is a questionable business at best, and this does not look different.
  • rrss 7y ago
    > That's clearly stretching the laws of physics, at the very least This is not clear to me. Few mobile users have pings to anywhere pushing up against the speed of light, and the bandwidth/loss/routing is not close to being limited by physics.
    • zzzcpan 7y ago
      No, he's correct here, it's an extra indirection and so overall it can only hurt performance, not improve it. For example, ISPs often have caching servers from Google installed and Google is the biggest traffic generator. If you route traffic through somewhere else you are going to reach different Google's caching servers that are farther away and over more congested links.
      • CharlesW 7y ago
        > No, he's correct here, it's an extra indirection and so overall it can only hurt performance, not improve it. Really? The cost of an extra hop is just one of tens (hundreds?) of factors that would determine if using WARP would be faster for a particular scenario.
• scoutt 7y ago
  Now that Cloudflare has their own VPN, will there be an increase in showing those annoying captcha/challenge pages for connections made from every other VPN/Tor?
  • rsync 7y ago
    I think it is more appropriate to say that Cloudflare has their own TOR ... As I ask elsewhere in this comment section, I don't see why "warp" endpoints won't be discriminated against the same way TOR endpoints are.
    • commoner 7y ago
      Tor masks a user's IP address, while Warp does not. Warp endpoints will most likely not face the same kind of "discrimination". However, Warp does not provide any anonymity, which is the main reason people use Tor.
• vijaybritto 7y ago
  Installed on android. Doesn't work. Says "connection interrupted". Looks like it needs more work.
• sebasmurphy 7y ago
  Just going to throw this out there for anyone who is hesitant using a vpn managed by another service. You can set up your own easily using the ansible scripts provided by trailofbits, which supports both IPSEC and wireguard. https://github.com/trailofbits/algo https://github.com/trailofbits/algo a small DO (Digital Ocean) instance is only $5 a month and comes with 1TB outbound bandwidth (last I checked), which ends up being cheaper than most commercial offerings.
  • mr_puzzled 7y ago
    On their patreon goal of $1600/month : "We can start working on an easy-to-use mobile app that let people deploy their own VPN server without touching a terminal window." Damn, that would be so cool.
    • sebasmurphy 7y ago
      I hadn't heard about that yet. Will have to look into it.
  • tucif 7y ago
    Or host it for free in one of Oracle's cloud 'always free' tier VMs. Disclaimer: I'm an employee
    • IOT_Apprentice 7y ago
      Oracle? Yikes.
    • megous 7y ago
      Does it have public IP?
      • tucif 7y ago
        It does
    • jlgaddis 7y ago
• fc_barnes 7y ago
  I'm confused about who sees what IP when. I'm also confused about the bandwidth limits on plus. Having essentially two products blended together, and using new technology that behaves uniquely, makes the communication lift here that much heavier.
  • judge2020 7y ago
    Plus uses their priate backbone, so it costs them money to send traffic through it. The IP discovery is currently only available for CF websites: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21070828 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21070828
• OrgNet 7y ago
  is that a VPN? why did it take so long to implement as they stated multiple times? I try to avoid Cloudflare if I have an option because they are getting too big.
• rmateu 7y ago
  1.1.1.1 DNS and mobile app have improved my internet experience considerably outside the US (currently in Costa Rica). I'm very excited about WARP and totally buy the "everyday user" premise. As soon as it feels stable I'm telling my activist brother-in-law in Venezuela to install it and enable WARP. Personally I trust Cloudflare above any ISP. I see myself installing it over holidays to the rest of the family there. I understand and celebrate HN's high level discussion about concentration of power on the internet and its effects. But at the same time I want to celebrate a geeky company, releasing something cool, with a free tier – and an evident openness about its plans and how it works. Congrats on the launch!
• ummonk 7y ago
  Congratulations on launching another great feature! I've been patiently on the waitlist for a very long time now, and it's great to see it out now!
• fooey 7y ago
  I wonder if there's any chance they'll add an ad blocking feature. I'd probably give WARP a shot but I'm not willing to give up DNS66 to switch over
• sascha_sl 7y ago
  Argo is really cool... and also really unaffordable and solving a problem we wouldn't have in the first place if "net neutrality" was something tier 3 ISPs took seriously and stopped routing me across the world to save a few cents because one of their upstream provider provides cheaper bandwidth on a less congested route.
• ikeboy 7y ago
  Speedtest showing download speeds 3X slower (around 35MBPS vs 110). On PIA, which costs me around $3/month when I buy yearly, I get around 75MBPS, it does hide IP, and I can select the country and region I want. Also it's available on my computer and on multiple devices at once. I don't see the value of WARP+ at $4.99/month. Less features and slower.
  • cpeterso 7y ago
    Netflix's fast.com speed test on my iPhone: * Comcast without WARP: 460 Mbps * Comcast with WARP: 30 Mbps * T-Mobile without WARP: 500 Kbps * T-Mobile with WARP: 600 Kbps Regular WARP doesn't claim any performance speedups, so I'm curious to see how WARP+ compares. In the meantime, I will disable WARP for my home Wi-Fi.
    • mapniels 7y ago
      fast.com speed test on iPhone: * Hi3G (Carrier Aggregation) without WARP+: 39 Mbps * Hi3G (Carrier Aggregation) with WARP+: 39 Mbps * Hi3G without WARP+: 12 Mbps * Hi3G with WARP+: 32 Mbps
• mr_puzzled 7y ago
  Really cool service. Using warp on my phone and it surprisingly makes a big difference in locations with spotty 4G. Couple of questions : * I read that cloudflare generates a unique id for each install and the purpose was to track referrals. Consider adding an option to opt out of the unique id tracking since some users will be concerned about it. * Any plans to add an option to use an ip from cloudflare instead of my ip address being visible to the websites I visit, at least on the paid plan? I know this opens a can of worms dealing with abuse of the service which could lead to certain ip addresses belonging to cloudflare being blacklisted.
  • pedrocx486 7y ago
    Cloudflare has made pretty clear in this thread that they don't plan on stopping the IP from being exposed, they also plan to expose to all sites, even the ones on non-CF networks.
• tptacek 7y ago
  Exciting! We're a tiny company and have sponsored WireGuard two years in a row; you can see us on the WireGuard home page. Cloudflare is a gigantic company who just used the WireGuard design work to fork the project. Has Cloudflare given a cent to WireGuard? Why isn't their logo on the site?
  • spearo77 7y ago
    s/home page/donations page/ https://www.wireguard.com/donations/ https://www.wireguard.com/donations/
  • coolspot 7y ago
    AFAIK They acted same with nginx.
  • fragmede 7y ago
    And why should they? WireGuard is free† so it seems (to me) a bit futile trying to shame them on a niche site like HN and expect them to change their behavior and support the community that they draw from. Mind you, this problem is not limited to Wireguard/Cloudflare. The NTP servers, curl, libssl prior to Heartbleed, the list of important open source software in need of funding goes on. It's fighting also a basic refusal or desire to pay. When was the last time someone you know paid Redhat for CentOS or Canonical for Ubuntu on principal? What/how can we do more to encourage corporate sponsorship (either time or money) of code that's critical to a company? There are various ways the community has tried to enable this, in different ways. Librapay and platforms like it try to make it easier (Think Patreon but less commercial). The Linux Foundation takes large corporate donations and distributes it out to a large number of projects they support. Stick a paypal email address or bitcoin address in the Readme.md as a "serverless" way to receive money. However at the end of the day, that seems to not work. Curl is used in billions of devices but the majority of the work on it has been done by one person for 20 years. Something is not working as we hoped. †) specifically Open Source under the GPLv2 license ‡) https://www.linuxfoundation.org/projects/ https://www.linuxfoundation.org/projects/
    • tptacek 7y ago
• cj 7y ago
  I signed up for Cloudflare Warp last night. Any idea why iOS apps seem to not want to update using Warp? I’ve noticed the same when using other VPNs (including on Android). I disabled Warp this morning after the Apple App Store wouldn’t update apps.
• quotemstr 7y ago
  I'm sure as hell not going to trust Cloudflare with my DNS, and I'm especially not going to route all my traffic through them. That company shredded its credibility. Centralization always leads to corruption.
• trollied 7y ago
  Someone’s already got it working on macOS: https://twitter.com/saurik/status/1176893448445558784 https://twitter.com/saurik/status/1176893448445558784
  • OJFord 7y ago
    Fast work indeed, the meat of it: (registering a `wg` generated public key with CF) api=https://api.cloudflareclient.com/v0i1909051800 ins() { vrb=$1; shift; curl -s -H 'user-agent:' -H 'content-type: application/json' -X "${vrb}" "${api}/$@"; } sec() { ins "$@" -H 'authorization: Bearer '"${reg[1]}"''; } cfg=($(if [[ -e "${usr}" ]]; then reg=($(cat "${usr}")) test "${#reg[@]}" -eq 2 sec GET "reg/${reg[0]}" else reg=($(ins POST "reg" -d '{"install_id":"","tos":"'"$(date -u +%FT%T.000Z)"'","key":"'"${pub}"'","fcm_token":"","type":"ios","locale":"en_US"}' | jq -r '.result|.id+" "+.token')) test "${#reg[@]}" -eq 2 echo "${reg[@]}" >"${usr}" sec PATCH "reg/${reg[0]}" -d '{"warp_enabled":true}' fi | jq -r '.result.config|(.peers[0]|.public_key+" "+.endpoint.v4)+" "+.interface.addresses.v4')) test "${#cfg[@]}" -eq 3
    • cosmojg 7y ago
      Will this work on Linux?
      • OJFord 7y ago
        I can't see why that bit wouldn't, the rest of the script has some macOS-specific network setup though.
• throwid 7y ago
  I just bought a monthly 1.1.1.1 + WARP subscription, and it's slow as hell. Maybe because I'm in Indonesia. But it works just fine with WARP disabled. Another problem is 1.1.1.1 suddenly disconnected when I'm not browsing the internet, like watching videos or reading something on my phone. Hope you guys fix these problems soon.
  • StavrosK 7y ago
    I have a 300/300 symmetric connection in Barcelona and only get 80/0.07 Mbps with Warp. The 80 is fine, but what is up with 0.07 Mbps up, and why is it so jittery? EDIT: Anyone in Barcelona want to go axe throwing in an hour?
    • coolspot 7y ago
      86.3/0.28 with Warp, 109.4/117.8 without. I am in LA, CA, US.
    • steeve 7y ago
      Same in Paris:500 down/60 up without Warp, 300 down/1.25 up with Warp
• toothandtail 7y ago
  My upload speed is horrendous using this. Usually 15mb now 0.72?
• bigmattystyles 7y ago
  Damn, I thought they had switched to OS/2
  • nocman 7y ago
    Glad I'm not the only one who thought of that. :-D
• bithavoc 7y ago
  Love Warp, I was lucky enough to get into their Beta program via Testflight and it's been great and stable. many times I disabled it thinking my internet is broken because of Warp VPN and turns out to be my provider or wifi that is just down. I wish they provided a desktop version, or at least to change all the traffic from my central MikroTik router to use Warp.
  • xeroaura 7y ago
    This might be interesting to you for running on desktop (its for Mac, but probably can do something similar for Windows?): https://twitter.com/saurik/status/1176893448445558784 https://twitter.com/saurik/status/1176893448445558784
• losvedir 7y ago
  Great that it's finally launched. I've been on the waitlist for months. That said, I'm very ambivalent about Cloudflare. On the one hand, I love them because they're doing a lot of cool stuff (shoutout to kentonv whose sandstorm project I loved, who works there now), and even own a bit of their stock. On the other hand, them being an infrastructure company but also wading into what travels over their pipes makes me uncomfortable. I get that 8chan was horrible (and Stormfront before that, IIRC), but it shows more discretion than I'd like that that level of the stack. They seemed to be more hands-off in the past, so I wonder if the IPO changed that at all. A policy question: forbidding 8chan as a Cloudflare customer is one thing, but what if someone was using Warp and tried to load wherever it is they moved to? Would Warp block that?
  • allworknoplay 7y ago
    They didn't block requests to 8chan, they simply won't provide services to the site. If you're using cloudflare for DNS lookups, 8chan resolves just like any other non-cloudflare customer.
    • teddyh 7y ago
      …until someone gets the media going about it, at which point they block it. And that time, they will have a precedent.
      • Avamander 7y ago
        So far it has been tried but both registrars and DNS resolvers have resisted such censorship attempts unless it has been law enforcement and even then it has been local.
      • bryan_w 7y ago
        Yup just wait for the "Cloudflare allows access to domestic terrorist sites" headline next time the CEO pisses off the NYT
  • kentonv 7y ago
    Thanks for the shoutout! I wish we could have an actual conversation about the 8chan thing, but the public debate is far too emotionally charged for me to touch. :(
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• president 7y ago
  How does the end user know if WARP is actually working? As I understand it, a regular VPN will mask your IP so you can tell very easily if you’re protected by checking your externally reported IP. How would you know with WARP?
  • judge2020 7y ago
    It uses "connect on demand", at least on iOS, so iOS will block all traffic that doesn't go through the VPN (other than a few iOS services iirc).
• Animats 7y ago
  One backdoor to rule them all. They just have to be a target for NSA, the SVR, and the Third Department. How would you audit Cloudflare to find that?
  • acdha 7y ago
    The same way you audit Comcast, Verizon, Starbucks, etc. This is changing who you trust from many to a single provider but not otherwise removing the need for legal reform.
• fragmede 7y ago
  I have a different reason for being unable to use Warp: I don't want to access a "proper" DNS server, I want a DNS server that blocks ads for me in Mobile Chrome (I am aware that ad-blocking is fully integrated w/ Mobile Safari). I currently use AdGuard to get this feature, which sets the DNS server to one that blackholes ad servers. Still, it's quite exciting that Cloudflare's finally released Warp, and that the waitlist for Warp was so long.
  • hendersoon 7y ago
    Rather than using the Adguard local VPN app, you can set your DNS to them. https://adguard.com/en/adguard-dns/overview.html https://adguard.com/en/adguard-dns/overview.html Unfortunately this is only possible on wifi on iOS. On Android 9+ you can set custom DNS on both mobile and wifi.
• godelmachine 7y ago
  Would anyone kindly elucidate on the difference between Warp vs VPN? I recently purchased Adblock by Futuremind from AppStore, since I got really worried about my privacy. It has some features like local proxy DNS and setting up new rules. I keep my VPN on all day. Before that, I used to use Hotspot Shield since that was free. I used to get only one server viz. USA. I see internet speaks highly of NordVPN but that’s a whopping $85 which kinda burns a hole in my pocket. They claim that PWC has done an audit on them and confirmed that they don’t save users data. Would someone here kindly guide me on the most reliable VPN out there, for iOS? Thanks in advance for sorting me out :)
  • iamd3vil 7y ago
    Don't ever user free VPNs and especially something like Hotspot Shield. You can check https://thatoneprivacysite.net/ https://thatoneprivacysite.net/ for a comparison of VPN services. I use Mullvad VPN which supports both OpenVPN and Wireguard(which is the reason I use Mullvad) and costs 5 euros per month. You can use something like Bitcoin to pay if you want anonymity.
    • godelmachine 7y ago
      Thanks for opening my cautioning about HotSpot Shield. 5 euros/ month sounds expensive but does it give a bigger bang for your buck?
      • iamd3vil 7y ago
        I think it does. If you want cheaper VPNs, you should checkout Private Internet Access(PIA). If you subscribe for annual plans, you will get it cheaper there. PIA doesn't support Wireguard protocol though.
        • godelmachine 7y ago
          Thanks for this. I have already bought Adblock by Futuremind from AppStore. Went through https://thatoneprivacysite.net/ https://thatoneprivacysite.net/ didn’t saw Adblock anywhere. Reckon Futuremind Adblock ain’t that good :( May I ask on what basis you judge the reliability of VPN’s? I can already see OpenVPN and WireGuard support, but apart from that, any other major parameter? Any doc I could read to understand VPN’s better? Thanks again for taking interest in my issue. PS - Are you talking about the VPN by Private Internet Access Developer by Anonymous VPN Service and provided by London Trust Media, Inc on AppStore?
• cpeterso 7y ago
  The 1.1.1.1 app's original UI was nice and simple: just a big switch. But trying to cram WARP and WARP+ into the same UI is confusing. The same switch is now used to show and control multiple states: Disconnected, Connecting, Connected to WARP, Connected to WARP+, and Paused. In addition, there is redundant UI to switch between WARP and WARP+ in the "Additional Settings" menu and to unpause on the main screen.
• hdivider 7y ago
  I love it. You always have to make privacy and security tradeoffs -- and to me WARP is a promising initiative. Question: is there an OSX version? Or am I just blind? :)
  • steveklabnik 7y ago
    Elsewhere in this thread the folks who work on this have stated that there are plans for desktop versions in the future.
• acdha 7y ago
  This looks like a neat idea but I’ve haven't gotten it to connect on two WiFi networks or T-Mobile LTE. The one thing which could explain that is it showing me as having 0MB of WARP+ but there’s no way I’m paying before I can test it and it seems pointless if it requires the network provider to enable it.
  • steveklabnik 7y ago
    You should file a bug from within the app; you don't need WARP+ to use Warp and it shouldn't require anything from your provider.
    • acdha 7y ago
      I did, and was later able to connect using LTE so I suspect this is due to UDP being blocked on those WiFi networks but I don’t have an easy way to confirm that other than seeing the timeouts in the logs.
• kev009 7y ago
  This is a huge technical accomplishment if you peruse the related blog post https://blog.cloudflare.com/warp-technical-challenges/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/warp-technical-challenges/ around network topology. If you compare CF to Fastly, Akamai, and LLNW (the other 3 publicly traded CDNs) CF is so much better staffed and managed it is mind boggling to see how the others will remain relevant over a longer timescale. CF is one of the few recent tech IPOs where I haven't rolled my eyes and groaned. I used to work at one of the others so know quite a bit about this industry and how far behind the major players are.
• dang 7y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21070315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21070315 is a related post.
• leoplct 7y ago
  Can you tell me a what I am risking not using WARP?
• lighttower 7y ago
  Does anyone know if it breaks VoWifi?
• Zenst 7y ago
  I'll give it a go, still have 1.1.1.1 installed, though disabled/stopped using it as upon my phone it just eat up battery. Kept trying on updates every now and then, but same. Though beyond that, can't say I've bothered to dig/look into it and figured due to my phone being a 3 year old mid-range affair, now what you would call low-end - though QC 430 2GB Ram kinda works ok.
• david_shaw 7y ago
  > It will not hide your IP address from the websites you visit. This is an interesting design choice. I'm sure the idea here is to reduce the number of abuse complaints directed to Cloudflare, but it also seems to significantly reduce the value of the service. I'm excited to try WARP, but without IP masking, I'll need to keep paying for a commercial VPN service. If I'm already paying for a commercial VPN, I don't see why I'd ever use WARP. That said, I definitely trust Cloudflare more than PIA/NordVPN/etc. Some more "bulletproof" providers like Mullvad are probably even more trustworthy, but I don't think Cloudflare is going to mine (or sell) my data. At this point, I'm just not sure what use-case WARP would really fill for me.
  • commoner 7y ago
    Warp is still useful for secure web browsing on public Wi-Fi networks that aren't protected with a password. It's not a good option for you, since you already have a VPN, but you can recommend the free version of Warp to people who want to be more secure but don't want to pay for a VPN subscription. Warp+ is less defensible.
• gregimba 7y ago
  > days before the April 1 planned roll out. Please don't launch actual software on April 1st.
• sabujp 7y ago
  what is this exactly? proxying all your data through cloudflare or just dns traffic?
• GauntletWizard 7y ago
  I did a ctrl+f for "Onavo" and got nothing, so I'm going to say it loudly and publicly: There's no such thing as a free (lunch) VPN. Sure, Cloudflare has a premium product available, but the availability of a free version (not a free trial) means that, most likely, you're not the customer - You're the product. Your data, your browsing history, encrypted though they may be, are valauable to Cloudflare.
• mleonhard 7y ago
  Cloudflare WARP is an easy-to-use free VPN which protects your IP address from businesses who haven't paid Cloudflare yet. Companies like InfoUSA can convert 95% of US IP addresses to physical addresses and household resident names. By inserting themselves in the network between users and websites, Cloudflare will soon be able to get a chunk of InfoUSA's advertising profits. Remember, if you aren't paying for it then you are the product. Stay away from Cloudflare WARP and use a real VPN.
  • est 7y ago
    FTA: > What WARP Is Not > From a technical perspective, WARP is a VPN. But it is designed for a very different audience than a traditional VPN. WARP is not designed to allow you to access geo-restricted content when you’re traveling. It will not hide your IP address from the websites you visit. If you’re looking for that kind of high-security protection then a traditional VPN or a service like Tor are likely better choices for you.
    • kabacha 7y ago
      Then what does it do? > WARP, instead, is built for the average consumer. It’s built to ensure that your data is secured while it’s in transit. So the networks between you and the applications you’re using can’t spy on you. Isn't that what ssl does already lol? What a load of sham.
      • est 7y ago
        > Then what does it do? From my limited guess, you dial into Cloudflare's intranet, access CDN'd content inside a giant & very fast NAT.
      • KeepingItToasty 7y ago
        SSL/TLS encrypts your traffic between you and a server but by itself doesn't prevent your ISP from snooping some information about your encrypted connection. If you aren't using Secure DNS & DNSSEC, they may be able to see and intercept your DNS queries. If you don't use TLS 1.3, they can see the SSL certificate of the website you are connecting to. If you don't encrypt your Server Name Indication (SNI), they can see the hostname of the server you are connecting to. This all allows your ISP to figure out which websites you are connecting to and this can be used to prevent you from accessing certain websites, sell your browsing history to an advertising agency, etc. You can read more about it here: https://www.cloudflare.com/ssl/encrypted-sni/ https://www.cloudflare.com/ssl/encrypted-sni/ P.S. I don't work for Cloudflare.
• RyanShook 7y ago
  Having a hard time seeing why consumers want or need this.
• acd10j 7y ago
  Can't connect to Warp+ and Warp on phone when connected with office Wifi Network.
• kevincox 7y ago
  One nice thing about this is that it allows accessing IPv6 sites over and IPv4-only connection. I'll definitely be using this as I can only connect to my house via IPv6 and my mobile provider doesn't offer it. This means that I can just toggle on the VPN for when I need IPv6 connectivity.
• gorbypark 7y ago
  I'm confused as to the difference between Warp and Warp+. Upgrading to Warp+ says it routes all your traffic through Cloudflare's servers. So I guess regular Warp doesn't, then. Is Warp "just" DNS over HTTPS/TLS and Warp+ is a more traditional VPN?
• lone_haxx0r 7y ago
  After they abandoned 8chan, I don't think I'll ever trust this company again.
• antpls 7y ago
  Tried on Android 9, installed the VPN and turned on "always-on" mode and "disallow non-VPN connections". Telegram and Instagram stopped to work, so I uninstalled.
• qazwsx12 7y ago
  https://warp.plus/f9WCL https://warp.plus/f9WCL promo link for free 1GB WARP+
• qazwsx12 7y ago
  https://warp.plus/f9WCL https://warp.plus/f9WCL Promo link for 1GB free WARP+