7 ms·

Isn't it great that we work in an industry where a company like Netflix, which has increasing competition lately, just shares potential competitive advantages l

Isn't it great that we work in an industry where a company like Netflix, which has increasing competition lately, just shares potential competitive advantages like this? I get that, in part, this is a way to get people excited to work for Netflix, however, the people working on this are, probably, pretty proud of what they achieved and thus like to share it with us, their colleagues at other places of work and they have the freedom to do so because of our industry's great track record of knowledge sharing.

i_cant_speel 7y ago
Agreed. I believe technology as a whole is light-years ahead of where it would be if companies treated all of their findings and system designs as closely-guarded secrets. I am relatively early in my career and I get to open-source a project that I have been working on for the first time and it feels great.
- um_ya 7y ago
  Just imagine how far ahead the other industries would be if we handled patent and trademark law like we do in the software industry.
bscphil 7y ago
> I get that, in part, this is a way to get people excited to work for Netflix It's even more amazing to me that this is a successful tactic in light of the fact that there's no shortage of people willing to work for ad-tech firms. If working for a company with good values was such a draw, you'd think it would give them more of a competitive advantage. Maybe the real reason is that Netflix's "good values" are genuine, not just a draw for employees. I'm really not sure.
- gigatexal 7y ago
  The whole ad tech space as a data nerd is super enticing. I could work on some really cool data warehouse / database issues but at the end of the day I’d be helping an ad tech company... Worse yet is I’ve met some really cool people in the space but it is still ad tech
- the8472 7y ago
  I don't see how netflix' "good values" are so much better than adtech. They're not exactly saving the planet, feeding the starving or growing artificial organs. Adtech is about getting eyeballs and converting that into money. Netflix is about getting eyeballs for hours and people paying for that privilege. Contributing to OSS projects they use is sort of the "not eating babies" baseline, even oracle and google do it!
  - throwaway2048 7y ago
    Netflix doesn't involve stalking people online and then selling the data you derive to the highest bidder.
robbyt 7y ago
Realistically, Disney, or whomever competition, is not going to have enough technical expertise to deploy FreeBSD.
- cwyers 7y ago
  The BSD logo was created by one of Pixar's founders[1], and Disney now owns Pixar. Disney also has money. I'm sure deploying FreeBSD is well within their reach. 1) https://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html https://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html
- cthalupa 7y ago
  ... You don't think Disney, a company with a revenue of roughly 60 billion dollars, can hire people with enough technical expertise to deploy FreeBSD?
- rayiner 7y ago
  Disney’s animation studio is based on Linux infrastructure: https://www.velvetjobs.com/job-posting/sr-systems-engineer-linux-engineering-22445 https://www.velvetjobs.com/job-posting/sr-systems-engineer-l...
- o-__-o 7y ago
  I trained the entire Disney offshore replacement team. They understand FreeBSD very well.
  - m11r 7y ago
    Out of curiosity, does this mean that they’re using (or have used) FreeBSD in their infrastructure or for some other purpose, or just a high level of Unix competence in that team? Any interesting details that you’re able to share?
29athrowaway 7y ago
They also have their own CDN, to reduce load on ISPs. https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/how-netflix-works-with-isps-around-the-globe-to-deliver-a-great-viewing-experience https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/how-netflix-works-...
- loeg 7y ago
  Specifically, the CDN part is where Netflix uses FreeBSD. Their control plane runs on Linux.
- techslave 7y ago
  you make it sound altruistic. it’s to avoid paying ISPs
  - tw04 7y ago
    It's to avoid paying last mile ISPs who have turned their monopolies into a mafia-like shakedown scheme.
    - mlyle 7y ago
      Those last mile ISPs have to install one of these boxes to see a benefit. Netflix still has to work things out and get the last mile ISPs to play ball ($$$). But this potentially saves Netflix a whole ton on transit.
Matthias247 7y ago
I am actually not too sure whether it matters. The amount of people that have the skills to implement such a solution is not that high. There are are only so many people who can do high performance kernel, encryption and networking work. They might give the advantages away if they release everything, so that others can simply deploy it or offer it as a hosted solution. But the pure documentation what they did are more like advertisements for interesting engineer work @ Netflix.
ksec 7y ago
>just shares potential competitive advantages like this? It is abit like Facebook Sharing their work on Servers Hardware and Database improvements. Ultimately they dont think any of those technology are their completive advantage , their core business is Social ( and Ad Tracking, but that is another topic ). Similar to Netflix, and would be the same as Disney. Their core business is not in the delivery, but the content. Having said that it is still very nice of them to share their work. FreeBSD, Ruby Rails, Chaos Engineering, there are lots of things I love about their Tech Stacks.
amelius 7y ago
Perhaps it's just because researchers need to publish in order to, you know, build their careers.
throw0101a 7y ago
> ... just shares potential competitive advantages like this? Is it really a competitive advantage though? I would think that their brand and content library are the main ones. A CDN server doesn't really count IMHO: other streaming services can create their own appliances, though I'm guessing they'll use Linux due to its ubiquity. Though as a long-time FreeBSD fan and part-time user, I'm happy for the patches. I run a large Isilon OneFS cluster, and so hopefully these changes will help in NFS performance. :) There is another aspect to this contribution: the FreeBSD kernel code is ever-changing, so unless Netflix wants to carry forward this patch internally into the future, it is prudent to get it committed upstream so it can be cared for by the community at-large.
- toast0 7y ago
  > Is it really a competitive advantage though? It totally is. These things get installed into ISP racks. ISPs have limited space and power for these things. One box pushing 200Gbps in the same space is twice as good (although, note they have 4x100Gbps NICs in this generation, there's room for more perf here). Reducing the number of nodes helps with management of the network as well.
  - mlyle 7y ago
    It's funny to think that pushing 196gbps is possibly just as little as ~8000 simultaneous streams. Also a shame that it is TLS'd. The content already has its own DRM/encryption.
    - nine_k 7y ago
      TLS plays a different role. It makes sure you're receiving the Netflix's DRMed and encrypted content, and not some MITMed content that also happens to be correctly DRMed and encrypted, but contains something else.
      - mlyle 7y ago
        Easy enough to make the content authenticate itself, instead of repeating cryptographic work for each viewer. E.g. every 64k block contains a SHA256 hash of the next 64k block. When a user seeks, you provide the hash of the first block they'll be receiving over a trusted channel. (It already can exist at start of stream RSA signed or whatever). But that's probably a pain when you have so many different devices to support. (It also makes it harder to figure out what content people are watching... Though I think they use variable bitrate encoding which will fall to traffic analysis).
secretasiandan 7y ago
I like it, I think its spreading, and I think its a good thing for the world. "Top U.S. CEOs say companies should put social responsibility above profit" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jp-morgan-business-roundtable-idUSKCN1V91EK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jp-morgan-business-roundt...
- im3w1l 7y ago
  The part that worries me is that companies are increasingly seeing it as their social responsibility to gang up and destroy "bad" people like Stallman.
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    Stallman has always been a neckbeard and either the industry grows up and shows some responsibility (which means kicking out or massively restrain the neckbeards) or it's going to be held liable itself for their actions.
- 693471 7y ago
  Social responsibility over profit is not legal in the USA. Fiduciary duty, EBay v Newmark

i_cant_speel 7y ago

Agreed. I believe technology as a whole is light-years ahead of where it would be if companies treated all of their findings and system designs as closely-guarded secrets. I am relatively early in my career and I get to open-source a project that I have been working on for the first time and it feels great.

um_ya 7y ago
Just imagine how far ahead the other industries would be if we handled patent and trademark law like we do in the software industry.

bscphil 7y ago

> I get that, in part, this is a way to get people excited to work for Netflix It's even more amazing to me that this is a successful tactic in light of the fact that there's no shortage of people willing to work for ad-tech firms. If working for a company with good values was such a draw, you'd think it would give them more of a competitive advantage. Maybe the real reason is that Netflix's "good values" are genuine, not just a draw for employees. I'm really not sure.

gigatexal 7y ago
The whole ad tech space as a data nerd is super enticing. I could work on some really cool data warehouse / database issues but at the end of the day I’d be helping an ad tech company... Worse yet is I’ve met some really cool people in the space but it is still ad tech
the8472 7y ago
I don't see how netflix' "good values" are so much better than adtech. They're not exactly saving the planet, feeding the starving or growing artificial organs. Adtech is about getting eyeballs and converting that into money. Netflix is about getting eyeballs for hours and people paying for that privilege. Contributing to OSS projects they use is sort of the "not eating babies" baseline, even oracle and google do it!
- throwaway2048 7y ago
  Netflix doesn't involve stalking people online and then selling the data you derive to the highest bidder.

robbyt 7y ago

Realistically, Disney, or whomever competition, is not going to have enough technical expertise to deploy FreeBSD.

cwyers 7y ago
The BSD logo was created by one of Pixar's founders[1], and Disney now owns Pixar. Disney also has money. I'm sure deploying FreeBSD is well within their reach. 1) https://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html https://www.freebsd.org/copyright/daemon.html
cthalupa 7y ago
... You don't think Disney, a company with a revenue of roughly 60 billion dollars, can hire people with enough technical expertise to deploy FreeBSD?
rayiner 7y ago
Disney’s animation studio is based on Linux infrastructure: https://www.velvetjobs.com/job-posting/sr-systems-engineer-linux-engineering-22445 https://www.velvetjobs.com/job-posting/sr-systems-engineer-l...
o-__-o 7y ago
I trained the entire Disney offshore replacement team. They understand FreeBSD very well.
- m11r 7y ago
  Out of curiosity, does this mean that they’re using (or have used) FreeBSD in their infrastructure or for some other purpose, or just a high level of Unix competence in that team? Any interesting details that you’re able to share?

29athrowaway 7y ago

They also have their own CDN, to reduce load on ISPs. https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/how-netflix-works-with-isps-around-the-globe-to-deliver-a-great-viewing-experience https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/how-netflix-works-...

loeg 7y ago
Specifically, the CDN part is where Netflix uses FreeBSD. Their control plane runs on Linux.
techslave 7y ago
you make it sound altruistic. it’s to avoid paying ISPs
- tw04 7y ago
  It's to avoid paying last mile ISPs who have turned their monopolies into a mafia-like shakedown scheme.
  - mlyle 7y ago
    Those last mile ISPs have to install one of these boxes to see a benefit. Netflix still has to work things out and get the last mile ISPs to play ball ($$$). But this potentially saves Netflix a whole ton on transit.

Matthias247 7y ago

I am actually not too sure whether it matters. The amount of people that have the skills to implement such a solution is not that high. There are are only so many people who can do high performance kernel, encryption and networking work. They might give the advantages away if they release everything, so that others can simply deploy it or offer it as a hosted solution. But the pure documentation what they did are more like advertisements for interesting engineer work @ Netflix.

ksec 7y ago

>just shares potential competitive advantages like this? It is abit like Facebook Sharing their work on Servers Hardware and Database improvements. Ultimately they dont think any of those technology are their completive advantage , their core business is Social ( and Ad Tracking, but that is another topic ). Similar to Netflix, and would be the same as Disney. Their core business is not in the delivery, but the content. Having said that it is still very nice of them to share their work. FreeBSD, Ruby Rails, Chaos Engineering, there are lots of things I love about their Tech Stacks.

amelius 7y ago

Perhaps it's just because researchers need to publish in order to, you know, build their careers.

throw0101a 7y ago

> ... just shares potential competitive advantages like this? Is it really a competitive advantage though? I would think that their brand and content library are the main ones. A CDN server doesn't really count IMHO: other streaming services can create their own appliances, though I'm guessing they'll use Linux due to its ubiquity. Though as a long-time FreeBSD fan and part-time user, I'm happy for the patches. I run a large Isilon OneFS cluster, and so hopefully these changes will help in NFS performance. :) There is another aspect to this contribution: the FreeBSD kernel code is ever-changing, so unless Netflix wants to carry forward this patch internally into the future, it is prudent to get it committed upstream so it can be cared for by the community at-large.

toast0 7y ago
> Is it really a competitive advantage though? It totally is. These things get installed into ISP racks. ISPs have limited space and power for these things. One box pushing 200Gbps in the same space is twice as good (although, note they have 4x100Gbps NICs in this generation, there's room for more perf here). Reducing the number of nodes helps with management of the network as well.
- mlyle 7y ago
  It's funny to think that pushing 196gbps is possibly just as little as ~8000 simultaneous streams. Also a shame that it is TLS'd. The content already has its own DRM/encryption.
  - nine_k 7y ago
    TLS plays a different role. It makes sure you're receiving the Netflix's DRMed and encrypted content, and not some MITMed content that also happens to be correctly DRMed and encrypted, but contains something else.
    - mlyle 7y ago
      Easy enough to make the content authenticate itself, instead of repeating cryptographic work for each viewer. E.g. every 64k block contains a SHA256 hash of the next 64k block. When a user seeks, you provide the hash of the first block they'll be receiving over a trusted channel. (It already can exist at start of stream RSA signed or whatever). But that's probably a pain when you have so many different devices to support. (It also makes it harder to figure out what content people are watching... Though I think they use variable bitrate encoding which will fall to traffic analysis).

secretasiandan 7y ago

I like it, I think its spreading, and I think its a good thing for the world. "Top U.S. CEOs say companies should put social responsibility above profit" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jp-morgan-business-roundtable-idUSKCN1V91EK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jp-morgan-business-roundt...

im3w1l 7y ago
The part that worries me is that companies are increasingly seeing it as their social responsibility to gang up and destroy "bad" people like Stallman.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  Stallman has always been a neckbeard and either the industry grows up and shows some responsibility (which means kicking out or massively restrain the neckbeards) or it's going to be held liable itself for their actions.
693471 7y ago
Social responsibility over profit is not legal in the USA. Fiduciary duty, EBay v Newmark