8 ms·

When can I buy a TV without smart features? I don't doubt that my smart TV is reporting some data about my usage, but I barely have a choice in the matter.

Despegar 7y ago
Block your TV from having internet access and get an Apple TV
Simon_says 7y ago
You can buy it, but it's called a "monitor". Projectors also work.
- journalctl 7y ago
  TVs and monitors serve different purposes, as evidenced by them having different features.
- cesarb 7y ago
  A monitor wouldn't have a built-in ISDB-Tb receiver. To me, that's the defining feature which distinguishes between a "TV" and a "monitor": a TV has a built-in receiver for over-the-air TV broadcasts, while a monitor doesn't.
- CraneWorm 7y ago
  There is an increasing number of monitors running Android. Projectors are safe for now, but I think it's because they are seen as a niche/hipster thing.
cactus2093 7y ago
It's surprising to me that you can't find a single medium or high-ish end TV without smart features, but at the same time chromecast/firetv/apple tv units and sticks also seem to be selling very well. Is everyone just putting up with the shitty built-in smart interface, but then switching inputs to their separate unit of choice?
- kgwxd 7y ago
  Business-wise, they need to have the "smarts" built-in to subsidies the price so they can compete. Even if you don't use the built-in apps, it's still collecting interesting enough data to sell. Most people don't know how to block specific devices from accessing the internet, and worse, some of those devices won't work at all if they can't.
- gitgreen 7y ago
  You can, they're just not marketed to consumers. Search electronics retailers like B&H, Newegg, etc for "commercial displays" or "digital signage" and you'll see a lot of familiar looking units that don't have all the consumer garbage built in. They tend to be more expensive but not prohibitively so.
  - tomatotomato37 7y ago
    Don't those units tend to have subpar picture quality though due to being optimized for reliability and minimal burn-in over refresh rate?
    - HeavenFox 7y ago
      They also cost a fortune. I tried to get one for work and IT department quoted $2k for a 65 inch display.
- jerrysievert 7y ago
  > It's surprising to me that you can't find a single medium or high-ish end TV without smart features for a while you couldn't find a tv with decent features that wasn't 3d. happy to see that trend be over. unfortunately, it seems that industrial tv panels seem to be going away as well.
  - AnssiH 7y ago
    > for a while you couldn't find a tv with decent features that wasn't 3d. happy to see that trend be over. Huh, why would one avoid TVs that have 3D?
kgwxd 7y ago
I've heard looking at "commercial" displays is the answer, but I've been able to live with my old dumb TVs so far.
vlozko 7y ago
It’s pretty simple: don’t connect it to the internet. Use something like AppleTV or your own box that you trust to show your streaming services.
- jigglesniggle 7y ago
  Can you be sure it is not connected to the Internet? I thought previously someone gave example of a Chinese TV connecting to open hotspots, or perhaps that was just a thought experiment.
  - Retric 7y ago
    As long as every local connection is encrypted/password protected you should be fine. Unfortunately, outside of rural areas that may not be under your control.
    - SteveNuts 7y ago
      How would encryption help in this case? If the TV connects to open wifi opportunistically it will still be sending data to the internet you don't want it to, encrypted or not.
      - wtallis 7y ago
        I think he may have meant that if all available APs are using encryption, then you don't have to worry about your TV automatically connecting.
        SteveNuts 7y ago
        Yeah I guess that makes sense. But a neighbor that turns on an open wifi hotspot would be all it takes for the TV to connect for a bit. It's not something that should just be left up to chance, but I also don't know of a good solution other than regulation.
        7y ago
jamesponddotco 7y ago
I got a Samsung "SmartTV", turned it on and the first thing I saw was advertisement and an insane amount of calls to Samsung servers on my Pi-hole. On the TV I just paid for. Opened it up, disconnected the WiFi module, connected my Apple TV to it and am pretty happy.
- amdelamar 7y ago
  Did you disable WiFi in the menu, or physically remove the WiFi card/chip?
  - jamesponddotco 7y ago
    Physically removed the Wi-Fi module.
    - beamatronic 7y ago
      I see a niche value-added service business here
    - xxs 7y ago
      this works of course, but blocking in on the router by mac address is way easier.
- EpicEng 7y ago
  Why did you give it access to Wi-Fi in the first place? I have a Samsung smart TV and I just skipped that step. Performing a HW mod seems unnecessary.
  - zik 7y ago
    It might make sense to connect it to get a firmware update. And some bug fixes, hopefully.
    - takeda 7y ago
      If you don't want any of those smart features, chances are you don't have the need to update anything.
chewyland 7y ago
PiHole.
- CraneWorm 7y ago
  That is still a wrong solution to the problem. The thing is, in my opinion that you shouldn't have to set-up PiHole in the first place. If we do that and don't vote with the feet and wallets we won't see a single DumbTv in a few years. It is still possible to find a non-Smart device. Don't pay for someone's ad-space!
topspin 7y ago
> When can I buy a TV without smart features? There is a limited selection of 'dumb' TVs in the world. The 50-inch Sceptre E505BV-FMQK has no "smart" capabilities and lacks WiFi or Ethernet. The usual advice is to simply not connect the internal "smart" capabilities to anything; disable WiFi and don't connect a Ethernet cable. The built-in host and all the nefarious crap it wants to run can't reach anything unless you somehow connect it. Just use the TV tuner and HDMI inputs. If you need a network connection for streaming from some local source then block the TV at your Internet router. Like the adware you get with many laptops and other mobile devices there are 'financial incentives' to manufacturers to build this stuff in, so don't expect the practice to abate anytime soon.
- beamatronic 7y ago
  Marketing opportunity! Sell “Privacy TVs”
  - quickthrower2 7y ago
    I wonder if my 8 year old 720p dumb TV will go up in value?
  - bt848 7y ago
    Hey, you're not wrong. "Privacy screen" displays that have been available on PC laptops for years are nothing but obsolete panels with terrible viewing angles. You can definitely charge more for something less good.
- rainbowzootsuit 7y ago
  NEC makes displays in their industrial display division that are _just_ displays. A few have an atsc tuner. The prices don't seem outrageous. https://www.necdisplay.com https://www.necdisplay.com
  - Springtime 7y ago
    Nice to see. Though it's hard to tell if these feature HDR support, despite the 'Ultra HD' nomenclature. On one sister site it mentions 'HDR support*' with a footnote that a 'HDR signal display is possible' which makes me dubious. As one of the draws of Ultra HD displays for consumers is HDR content which has become more common with online films/tv, UHD Blu-Rays and games.
nicwolff 7y ago
I bought an LG OLED commercial signage display. It's just a 55" panel, 1/4" thick, with a ribbon cable to a power-and-control box with one HDMI port. No internet or wifi connection; the software just lets you use the remote to configure the display. Into it I plugged a Denon HEOS receiver, which is WiFi-connected for the purposes of serving as a Spotify and AirPlay output device, and which drives wired and wireless speakers. Into the HEOS runs an Apple TV for video streaming, a DVD player for old times' sake, and my wife's phonograph.
- nicwolff 7y ago
  Note that it's only 1080p – not 4K – and doesn't have HDR. The picture's spectacular, so I decided that 1080p at 55" is plenty.
- Marsymars 7y ago
  How do you navigate the purchase of commercial signage display? I tried to do some research a few months ago, and manufacturers' and retailers' sites were all punishingly awful in being clear about specs, geographic (in Canada) availability, which models were discontinued and unavailable, actual pricing, etc.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - nicwolff 7y ago
    It wasn't easy! I found the model I was interested in listed online by Newegg, Walmart, and CDW – but it took about 5 months to get! Newegg and Walmart had the lowest prices but turned out to fronting for the same seller, who was running a bait-and-switch. I ordered through Newegg first – and received a different product! A big heavy LCD display. I shipped it back to them for a refund. Then I ordered through Walmart – and again received that other product! After the seller refused to exchange or refund and stopped answering e-mails, Walmart refunded me the price – and told me to keep the LCD display, which I donated. Finally I ordered from CDW, who shipped me the right product – but under all the cardboard and styrofoam it was packed in, the corner of the display was bent up 90 degrees! And the display wouldn't light up. To their credit, CDW shipped a replacement unit right away. It was in perfect condition – you can watch me unbox it at https://youtu.be/o9Mu4K-ApkU https://youtu.be/o9Mu4K-ApkU – and I'm watching it right now.
letitbeirie 7y ago
PC monitors. Some of them need separate sound, but they very rarely (so far) have smart capabilities, given their use case.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Hard to find a 55 inch PC monitor. You can buy a 55 inch 4K Roku TCL TV for less than $400.
soared 7y ago
There are plenty of options for non-smart TVs, where in the world do you get the idea that you 'don't have a choice'? Took me 30 seconds, three of the TVs on page 1 are not smart: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/tvs/all-flat-screen-tvs/abcat0101001.c?id=abcat0101001 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/tvs/all-flat-screen-tvs/abcat01...
nfoz 7y ago
Here's mine: https://www.lg.com/ca_en/commercial-tv/lg-55UX340C-public-display-tvs https://www.lg.com/ca_en/commercial-tv/lg-55UX340C-public-di... You have to find your way to the "commercial" section of LG's website and even then find the ones that are dumb. I'm very happy with it. 55" 4k, a bit cheaper than its comparable consumer line. Simple remote, doesn't hassle me, quick to start and stop. I was able to purchase it from "Canada Computers" but YMMV in your region etc. Not always easy to get the "business" line of products as a consumer but very often (TVs, laptops) it is preferable to the junk they'll sell to consumers from the big box stores even at the same price-point.
scarface74 7y ago
TVs are sold at or below cost and they make money from selling ads and get a cut of subscription revenue if you subscribe from the device. This is no different than PC makers who make money from bundled crapware and stickers plastered on the computer. People use to complain about the “Windows Tax” and thought the computer would be cheaper without it being bundled, but the PC manufacturers actually loss money when Windows wasn’t bundled because they also couldn’t bundle third party crap.
StreamBright 7y ago
I have a Phillips that does not have any smart features.
msbarnett 7y ago
If you have a reasonable amount of space be sure to take a look at the projector market. My current-model Epson is dumb as a rock, and as far as I can tell the majority of projectors are. The picture is better than most TVs to boot.
jedieaston 7y ago
CDW sells them for pretty close to the comparable smart tv: https://www.cdw.com/search/Monitors-Projectors/Large-Format-Displays/?w=D8&ln=0&a5082=51020139 https://www.cdw.com/search/Monitors-Projectors/Large-Format-.... They sell them for use in enterprises, but they have the same HDMI ports as the regular one.
triceratops 7y ago
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-55-class-led-1080p-hdtv/6172325.p https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-55-class-led-1080p-hdt...
dblohm7 7y ago
Commercial displays.
profquail 7y ago
NewEgg — look under “digital signage” / “commercial displays”: https://www.newegg.com/Commercial-Displays/SubCategory/ID-3086?Tid=167898 https://www.newegg.com/Commercial-Displays/SubCategory/ID-30...
harry8 7y ago
Buy a dell monitor [1] or similar. Please link any similar products from competitors here, this company is just the one I know of that comes to mind. [1] eg https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/shop/accessories/apd/210-aqxi https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/shop/accessories/apd/210-aqx...
- harry8 7y ago
  sorry forgot the rest of the post. You build your own set top box to connect to it, which can be pretty good quality while being pretty cheap [1] If you need free to air tv plug a usb dvb dongle into it. Use Kodi, possibly witha mythtv plugin and enjoy. [1] https://www.pine64.org/devices/single-board-computers/rock64/ https://www.pine64.org/devices/single-board-computers/rock64...
  - em3rgent0rdr 7y ago
    I've been using mythtv server plus raspberry pi running LibreELEC ("just enough OS for Kodi") for each CRT in my house...making them "smart" but without the surveillance.
- seppin 7y ago
  > Online Price $2,209.00 Not everyone here is a pre-IPO employee. I'd say 90% maybe, not everyone.
  - harry8 7y ago
    ~ USD 1,500, are similar spec "television" monitors wildly cheaper than that in the US?
    - seppin 7y ago
      Yes you can get a 4k TV for $400
      - harry8 7y ago
CraneWorm 7y ago
Sencor makes some. https://www.sencor.com/ultra-hd-televisions?smarttv=false https://www.sencor.com/ultra-hd-televisions?smarttv=false I've found other brands. It's hard to find a dummy, but doable. I couldn't find anything in stock that was larger than 55'.

Despegar 7y ago

Block your TV from having internet access and get an Apple TV

Simon_says 7y ago

You can buy it, but it's called a "monitor". Projectors also work.

journalctl 7y ago
TVs and monitors serve different purposes, as evidenced by them having different features.
cesarb 7y ago
A monitor wouldn't have a built-in ISDB-Tb receiver. To me, that's the defining feature which distinguishes between a "TV" and a "monitor": a TV has a built-in receiver for over-the-air TV broadcasts, while a monitor doesn't.
CraneWorm 7y ago
There is an increasing number of monitors running Android. Projectors are safe for now, but I think it's because they are seen as a niche/hipster thing.

cactus2093 7y ago

It's surprising to me that you can't find a single medium or high-ish end TV without smart features, but at the same time chromecast/firetv/apple tv units and sticks also seem to be selling very well. Is everyone just putting up with the shitty built-in smart interface, but then switching inputs to their separate unit of choice?

kgwxd 7y ago
Business-wise, they need to have the "smarts" built-in to subsidies the price so they can compete. Even if you don't use the built-in apps, it's still collecting interesting enough data to sell. Most people don't know how to block specific devices from accessing the internet, and worse, some of those devices won't work at all if they can't.
gitgreen 7y ago
You can, they're just not marketed to consumers. Search electronics retailers like B&H, Newegg, etc for "commercial displays" or "digital signage" and you'll see a lot of familiar looking units that don't have all the consumer garbage built in. They tend to be more expensive but not prohibitively so.
- tomatotomato37 7y ago
  Don't those units tend to have subpar picture quality though due to being optimized for reliability and minimal burn-in over refresh rate?
  - HeavenFox 7y ago
    They also cost a fortune. I tried to get one for work and IT department quoted $2k for a 65 inch display.
jerrysievert 7y ago
> It's surprising to me that you can't find a single medium or high-ish end TV without smart features for a while you couldn't find a tv with decent features that wasn't 3d. happy to see that trend be over. unfortunately, it seems that industrial tv panels seem to be going away as well.
- AnssiH 7y ago
  > for a while you couldn't find a tv with decent features that wasn't 3d. happy to see that trend be over. Huh, why would one avoid TVs that have 3D?

kgwxd 7y ago

I've heard looking at "commercial" displays is the answer, but I've been able to live with my old dumb TVs so far.

vlozko 7y ago

It’s pretty simple: don’t connect it to the internet. Use something like AppleTV or your own box that you trust to show your streaming services.

jigglesniggle 7y ago
Can you be sure it is not connected to the Internet? I thought previously someone gave example of a Chinese TV connecting to open hotspots, or perhaps that was just a thought experiment.
- Retric 7y ago
  As long as every local connection is encrypted/password protected you should be fine. Unfortunately, outside of rural areas that may not be under your control.
  - SteveNuts 7y ago
    How would encryption help in this case? If the TV connects to open wifi opportunistically it will still be sending data to the internet you don't want it to, encrypted or not.
    - wtallis 7y ago
      I think he may have meant that if all available APs are using encryption, then you don't have to worry about your TV automatically connecting.
      - SteveNuts 7y ago
        Yeah I guess that makes sense. But a neighbor that turns on an open wifi hotspot would be all it takes for the TV to connect for a bit. It's not something that should just be left up to chance, but I also don't know of a good solution other than regulation.
        7y ago

jamesponddotco 7y ago

I got a Samsung "SmartTV", turned it on and the first thing I saw was advertisement and an insane amount of calls to Samsung servers on my Pi-hole. On the TV I just paid for. Opened it up, disconnected the WiFi module, connected my Apple TV to it and am pretty happy.

amdelamar 7y ago
Did you disable WiFi in the menu, or physically remove the WiFi card/chip?
- jamesponddotco 7y ago
  Physically removed the Wi-Fi module.
  - beamatronic 7y ago
    I see a niche value-added service business here
  - xxs 7y ago
    this works of course, but blocking in on the router by mac address is way easier.
EpicEng 7y ago
Why did you give it access to Wi-Fi in the first place? I have a Samsung smart TV and I just skipped that step. Performing a HW mod seems unnecessary.
- zik 7y ago
  It might make sense to connect it to get a firmware update. And some bug fixes, hopefully.
  - takeda 7y ago
    If you don't want any of those smart features, chances are you don't have the need to update anything.

chewyland 7y ago

PiHole.

CraneWorm 7y ago
That is still a wrong solution to the problem. The thing is, in my opinion that you shouldn't have to set-up PiHole in the first place. If we do that and don't vote with the feet and wallets we won't see a single DumbTv in a few years. It is still possible to find a non-Smart device. Don't pay for someone's ad-space!

topspin 7y ago

> When can I buy a TV without smart features? There is a limited selection of 'dumb' TVs in the world. The 50-inch Sceptre E505BV-FMQK has no "smart" capabilities and lacks WiFi or Ethernet. The usual advice is to simply not connect the internal "smart" capabilities to anything; disable WiFi and don't connect a Ethernet cable. The built-in host and all the nefarious crap it wants to run can't reach anything unless you somehow connect it. Just use the TV tuner and HDMI inputs. If you need a network connection for streaming from some local source then block the TV at your Internet router. Like the adware you get with many laptops and other mobile devices there are 'financial incentives' to manufacturers to build this stuff in, so don't expect the practice to abate anytime soon.

beamatronic 7y ago
Marketing opportunity! Sell “Privacy TVs”
- quickthrower2 7y ago
  I wonder if my 8 year old 720p dumb TV will go up in value?
- bt848 7y ago
  Hey, you're not wrong. "Privacy screen" displays that have been available on PC laptops for years are nothing but obsolete panels with terrible viewing angles. You can definitely charge more for something less good.
rainbowzootsuit 7y ago
NEC makes displays in their industrial display division that are _just_ displays. A few have an atsc tuner. The prices don't seem outrageous. https://www.necdisplay.com https://www.necdisplay.com
- Springtime 7y ago
  Nice to see. Though it's hard to tell if these feature HDR support, despite the 'Ultra HD' nomenclature. On one sister site it mentions 'HDR support*' with a footnote that a 'HDR signal display is possible' which makes me dubious. As one of the draws of Ultra HD displays for consumers is HDR content which has become more common with online films/tv, UHD Blu-Rays and games.

nicwolff 7y ago

I bought an LG OLED commercial signage display. It's just a 55" panel, 1/4" thick, with a ribbon cable to a power-and-control box with one HDMI port. No internet or wifi connection; the software just lets you use the remote to configure the display. Into it I plugged a Denon HEOS receiver, which is WiFi-connected for the purposes of serving as a Spotify and AirPlay output device, and which drives wired and wireless speakers. Into the HEOS runs an Apple TV for video streaming, a DVD player for old times' sake, and my wife's phonograph.

nicwolff 7y ago
Note that it's only 1080p – not 4K – and doesn't have HDR. The picture's spectacular, so I decided that 1080p at 55" is plenty.
Marsymars 7y ago
How do you navigate the purchase of commercial signage display? I tried to do some research a few months ago, and manufacturers' and retailers' sites were all punishingly awful in being clear about specs, geographic (in Canada) availability, which models were discontinued and unavailable, actual pricing, etc.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- nicwolff 7y ago
  It wasn't easy! I found the model I was interested in listed online by Newegg, Walmart, and CDW – but it took about 5 months to get! Newegg and Walmart had the lowest prices but turned out to fronting for the same seller, who was running a bait-and-switch. I ordered through Newegg first – and received a different product! A big heavy LCD display. I shipped it back to them for a refund. Then I ordered through Walmart – and again received that other product! After the seller refused to exchange or refund and stopped answering e-mails, Walmart refunded me the price – and told me to keep the LCD display, which I donated. Finally I ordered from CDW, who shipped me the right product – but under all the cardboard and styrofoam it was packed in, the corner of the display was bent up 90 degrees! And the display wouldn't light up. To their credit, CDW shipped a replacement unit right away. It was in perfect condition – you can watch me unbox it at https://youtu.be/o9Mu4K-ApkU https://youtu.be/o9Mu4K-ApkU – and I'm watching it right now.

letitbeirie 7y ago

PC monitors. Some of them need separate sound, but they very rarely (so far) have smart capabilities, given their use case.

scarface74 7y ago
Hard to find a 55 inch PC monitor. You can buy a 55 inch 4K Roku TCL TV for less than $400.

soared 7y ago

There are plenty of options for non-smart TVs, where in the world do you get the idea that you 'don't have a choice'? Took me 30 seconds, three of the TVs on page 1 are not smart: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/tvs/all-flat-screen-tvs/abcat0101001.c?id=abcat0101001 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/tvs/all-flat-screen-tvs/abcat01...

nfoz 7y ago

Here's mine: https://www.lg.com/ca_en/commercial-tv/lg-55UX340C-public-display-tvs https://www.lg.com/ca_en/commercial-tv/lg-55UX340C-public-di... You have to find your way to the "commercial" section of LG's website and even then find the ones that are dumb. I'm very happy with it. 55" 4k, a bit cheaper than its comparable consumer line. Simple remote, doesn't hassle me, quick to start and stop. I was able to purchase it from "Canada Computers" but YMMV in your region etc. Not always easy to get the "business" line of products as a consumer but very often (TVs, laptops) it is preferable to the junk they'll sell to consumers from the big box stores even at the same price-point.

scarface74 7y ago

TVs are sold at or below cost and they make money from selling ads and get a cut of subscription revenue if you subscribe from the device. This is no different than PC makers who make money from bundled crapware and stickers plastered on the computer. People use to complain about the “Windows Tax” and thought the computer would be cheaper without it being bundled, but the PC manufacturers actually loss money when Windows wasn’t bundled because they also couldn’t bundle third party crap.

StreamBright 7y ago

I have a Phillips that does not have any smart features.

msbarnett 7y ago

If you have a reasonable amount of space be sure to take a look at the projector market. My current-model Epson is dumb as a rock, and as far as I can tell the majority of projectors are. The picture is better than most TVs to boot.

jedieaston 7y ago

CDW sells them for pretty close to the comparable smart tv: https://www.cdw.com/search/Monitors-Projectors/Large-Format-Displays/?w=D8&ln=0&a5082=51020139 https://www.cdw.com/search/Monitors-Projectors/Large-Format-.... They sell them for use in enterprises, but they have the same HDMI ports as the regular one.

triceratops 7y ago

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-55-class-led-1080p-hdtv/6172325.p https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-55-class-led-1080p-hdt...

dblohm7 7y ago

Commercial displays.

profquail 7y ago

NewEgg — look under “digital signage” / “commercial displays”: https://www.newegg.com/Commercial-Displays/SubCategory/ID-3086?Tid=167898 https://www.newegg.com/Commercial-Displays/SubCategory/ID-30...

harry8 7y ago

Buy a dell monitor [1] or similar. Please link any similar products from competitors here, this company is just the one I know of that comes to mind. [1] eg https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/shop/accessories/apd/210-aqxi https://www.dell.com/en-au/work/shop/accessories/apd/210-aqx...

harry8 7y ago
sorry forgot the rest of the post. You build your own set top box to connect to it, which can be pretty good quality while being pretty cheap [1] If you need free to air tv plug a usb dvb dongle into it. Use Kodi, possibly witha mythtv plugin and enjoy. [1] https://www.pine64.org/devices/single-board-computers/rock64/ https://www.pine64.org/devices/single-board-computers/rock64...
- em3rgent0rdr 7y ago
  I've been using mythtv server plus raspberry pi running LibreELEC ("just enough OS for Kodi") for each CRT in my house...making them "smart" but without the surveillance.
seppin 7y ago
> Online Price $2,209.00 Not everyone here is a pre-IPO employee. I'd say 90% maybe, not everyone.
- harry8 7y ago
  ~ USD 1,500, are similar spec "television" monitors wildly cheaper than that in the US?
  - seppin 7y ago
    Yes you can get a 4k TV for $400
    - harry8 7y ago

CraneWorm 7y ago

Sencor makes some. https://www.sencor.com/ultra-hd-televisions?smarttv=false https://www.sencor.com/ultra-hd-televisions?smarttv=false I've found other brands. It's hard to find a dummy, but doable. I couldn't find anything in stock that was larger than 55'.