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The Cult of Kubernetes
- wepower_ico 7y agoI am one of these guys who is using K8S at home. The reason is a unified platform for work and home environment.
- deforciant 7y agoSame here, I run K8s both locally and on GKE for a project. My GKE cluster is just 2 nodes that have 2vCPU & 3.75GB RAM each. Performance is great and it has saved me an insane amount of time. I have also created an open source project that does one thing - updates your deployments :) https://keel.sh https://keel.sh. Previously I tried several different hosting options but nothing is easier/more convenient than k8s for me.
- Fiahil 7y agoThanks a lot ! Keel looks exactly like something I would need!
- fyfy18 7y agoAssuming you are running on physical hardware how are you managing storage? I've tried Rook but it seems somewhat buggy and overkill for my requirements (rsync would do).
- Fiahil 7y agoI'm using K8S (with rancher's k3s) at home too ! My main reason is portability. When I need to unplug one of the Raspberries or move all services to somewhere else, I only need to change the storage layer.
- swsieber 7y agoSo you're running bare metal k8s at home? What do you use for storage? That's my biggest question in how to move frok minikube at home to a true cluster.
- echelon 7y agoWhat's the cheapest you can run a k8s cluster in the cloud? I've been looking to spin one up in AWS, but it looks remarkably expensive for running personal projects.
- goatinaboat 7y agoConsider just running Minikube on your laptop. It’s pretty realistic and won’t cost you a penny. Except maybe in electricity, it seems to consume an enormous wattage just to exist...
- bryanlarsen 7y agominikube --vm-driver=none consumes a lot less resources, and k3s even fewer.
- goatinaboat 7y agoI’m using Hyper-V at the moment, I’ll check out your suggestions - thanks
- bryanlarsen 7y agohttps://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/4203 https://github.com/microsoft/WSL/issues/4203
- nobleach 7y agoK3s is fantastic. Lately I've been using K3d (which is the same thing, just in a docker container - much like Kind) It's super easy to spin up a cluster, and spin it back down with nothing really to clean up.
- ypcx 7y agoIf you just/first want to practice actual, multi-node k8s on your local Mac (or Windows), I've just completed this: https://github.com/youurayy/hyperctl https://github.com/youurayy/hyperctl
- 7y ago
- tshanmu 7y agoHow do you expose your services via an ingress when it needs to be behind a nat (via your home router/gateway)? Thanks!
- ivan4th 7y agoOne possibility (especially for "home Kubernetes" case) is not exposing the services to the outside world at all and using ZeroTier to access them https://www.zerotier.com/ https://www.zerotier.com/ It's L2 mesh VPN, and I believe you can even use MetalLB with it with some minor trickery. You can, of course, set up WireGuard or OpenVPN for yourself, too, but from my experience zt is the simplest for accessing the boxes behind NAT as you don't even need to set up any servers with real IPs.
- deforciant 7y agoHi, my shameless plug (I am the creator of webhookrelay): https://webhookrelay.com/v1/guide/ingress-controller https://webhookrelay.com/v1/guide/ingress-controller, using it both for services that are running in GKE and on minikube locally. It's cheaper than allocating a LB IP for backing services that don't get much traffic like Grafana and similar things.
- apeacox 7y agoDNAT. You map one/more ports from your router exposed on internet to ip:port of the local app. However, http/https ports are already used on routers to offer an admin web GUI. It’s technically possible to circumvent this with some ad-hoc firewall rules, but it depends if the router admin UI let’s you do that.
- gdamjan1 7y ago> However, http/https ports are already used on routers to offer an admin web GUI. not on the wan side I'd hope
- apeacox 7y agoExactly, they aren’t exposed outside. That’s why you can “potentially” add rules to route request from the outside to an internal host:port, even 80/143. On the LAN you would still able to connect to router admin.
- swsieber 7y agoDo youbuse minikube at home? If it's a real cluster, I'd like to ask what you do for storage. I currently run minkube but would love to move to a real cluster setup.
- bengale 7y agoDocker for Mac can run a k8s instance for you if you want.
- usgroup 7y agoI think devs often make bad decision makers because in some sense tech is often an addiction rather than a pragmatic choice. The cycle of picking a tech, jumping ship to it, religiously evangelising it, riding the wave and then jumping ship to the next related tech is typical in my opinion. I try hard to correct for this bias but sometimes struggle with exactly the same thing. There's just something about wanting to have a uniform "world-view" with fewer explanatory variables that never stops being motivating.
- pjmlp 7y agoIt helps working for big corps. The job might not be as interessing as riding every tech wave, but on the plus side there are plenty of tech waves that you save yourself from riding on. Plus one gets to rescue projects that ended up betting on the wrong waves, getting back to boring old tech.
- Juliate 7y agoYou mean, Kubernetes is the COBOL of 2050?
- pjmlp 7y agoI mean that Kubernetes is the NoSQL, CoffeScript, BigData, Grails, SOAP... of 2019. It is a bit unfair for Cobol, given that its latest revision is from 2014, and while verbose as it might be, it supports most of the nice features of any modern multi-paradigm language.
- apalmer 7y agoI think this is a bit unfair to SOAP. SOAP was\is a pretty stable technology that did exactly what it promised to do, without too many releases or breaking changes for about 10 years. Even today it has a good utility for the situations it is designed for... RPC over a well known standard format, for tightly coupled endpoints, that require metadata, enforced schema, security, and perhaps transactions. big problem for SOAP is it was the default for web services for a long time, when in reality a big shift happened in about 2008 where webservices were most likely NOT going to fit into those constraints. just my 2 cent
- Traster 7y agoThis post and the discussion of it on Hacker News could well be performance art. As an FPGA engineer I'm not entirely sure.
- marvin 7y agoNow imagine how hard it is for executives that don't know anything about technology to aid in making long-term strategic decisions that depends on this!
- dragonwriter 7y ago> Now imagine how hard it is for executives that don't know anything about technology to aid in making long-term strategic decisions that depends on this! Executives that don't know anything about technology shouldn't be aiding in making strategic decisions that depend on this. They might make decisions on the advice of others (including, hopefully, executives who do know something about technology—CEOs may make the decisions in some cases, but with CTOs and/or CIOs innthe loop, and if they know nothing about technology, that's as bad as if your CFO knows nothing about corporate finance.)
- asdfman123 7y agoI don't know what it actually means to be a CTO or CIO, but I think a lot of them have been spending the last 15 years working out strategic visions and reading articles about tech trends. It's really hard to know this stuff unless you are down in the weeds every day.
- surbas 7y agoPeople just responding to the title. The author was successful in migrating! Mostly an article about how immature GitHub actions are now that it’s just out of beta. Edit: As noted below github actions seem to still be in beta. The original point stands.
- ericflo 7y agoAFAIK Github actions are still in beta. I had some time set aside today to set up some build actions for a project I'm working on, but was roadblocked by a "request access to the beta" page. Do agree with your main point re: article though.
- shamanreturns 7y agoTo simplify or encapsulate the complex and save resources was a common sense thing in the past. The opposite is the rule now and its like an orwellian and kafkian nightmare. today, working in software development is getting paid to do meaningless sh!t and knowing its wrong.
- lukasLansky 7y agoKubernetes is our one shot at having the universal vendor-neutral cluster interface. The fact that it's time consuming to do simple things directly against it doesn't surprise me in the same way I'm not surprised that writing todo app directly against POSIX abstraction would be time consuming. It's a great way to learn how these interfaces work though.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- arethuza 7y ago"todo app directly against POSIX abstraction" After trying a few cloud based ToDo applications with mobile apps etc. I gave up and started using org mode files from a text editor.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- madhadron 7y ago> writing todo app directly against POSIX abstraction would be time consuming. That actually wouldn't be bad, and probably faster than getting it running on Kubernetes.
- geggam 7y agobut it isnt vendor neutral because you have to setup the k8s cluster differently in each cloud
- cwingrav 7y agoIt's an interesting mix of comments on this post, where half are talking about the typical "new tech switcher trope" and the others "I use it at X/It solves my problem X". The first is expected, the later shows smoke and a bit of fire around Kubernetes. I use Kubernetes and I usually don't like new tech, but Kubernetes solves so many real/hard problems with dev and ops (enough that i'm willing to work with the problems it creates for me). In my experience, it's the real thing.
- xgapp 7y ago"christine.website", what are the chances it's actually a guy?
- obstacle1 7y agoWhy does it matter either way?
- xena 7y agoAuthor of the post here, feel free to ask me anything!
- jmartrican 7y agoThank you for posting your experience. I am starting on the same path. I am at the point where I got the deployment working and a pod setup. Now I need to be able to access my service from the Internet using a DNS name and SSL certs. Before reading your post I didn't realize how many supporting characters would be needed to do this. It feels daunting and am grateful you posted your scripts and configurations. I'm running AWS k8s. Did you look into AWS k8s, and if so any reason why you didn't pick it? edit: 2nd question. How is service discovery handled in your setup?
- xena 7y agoI'm using DigitalOcean for O(money) optimization reasons. I also wanted as "vanilla" of Kuberenetes as possible while having it be managed. DigitalOcean seems the least bad pick for this. What do you mean? That term is so overloaded it could mean anything.
- jmartrican 7y agoI got my answer on the service discovery. Its basically done for you by the spec.selector portion of the Service definition, where you tell it which Pods to include in the service.
- marcinzm 7y agoAWS K8 either requires managing the master(s)/etcd yourself or paying amazon to do it via EKS. Amazon charges $150/cluster/month for the masters/etcd in EKS. As I understand it, Google and Digital Ocean charge $0/month for the master(s)/etcd. So if $150/cluster/month is an amount that matters to you then you shouldn't use EKS.
- jmartrican 7y ago
- oaf357 7y agoCalling it a cult after growing up in one is a bit insulting. But, yes, I don't run much on my personal K8s clusters. But, I've lost count of how many problems Kubernetes has solved for folks I've worked with. It might not solve the simplicity use cases but, that's not the intended design of the tool to begin with.
- xena 7y ago- The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader - Questioning, doubt and dissent are discouraged or even punished - Mind-altering practices are used in excess to suppress doubts (corporate-speak counts) - The group is elitist - The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society - The leader is not accountable to any authorities - The group teaches or implies that the ends justify the means - The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and control members - The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members - The group is preoccupied with making money - Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group - Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members - The most loyal members feel there can be no life outside the context of the group
- perspective1 7y agoAfter years of ignoring it, I'm no longer able to fight the cloud urge. What's the best way to learn k8s in 2019?
- a012 7y agoI'd suggest to read "Kubernetes: Up and Running" book, it's short enough and cover basics of k8s. Also it's important to have hands-on k8s cluster, so Google Kubernetes Engine would help a lot about spinning up a cluster.
- funkymike 7y agoI had to get up to speed on k8s at work this year and from that experience I would recommend to use minikube at first. Only go to GKE or such once you outgrow minikube. Doing minikube first also makes for a nice way to develop an application. Minikube for local development and testing, then deploy to GKE for QA & prod.
- maffydub 7y agoFor a very hands-on, getting-started tutorial, Katacoda is pretty awesome: https://katacoda.com/courses/kubernetes https://katacoda.com/courses/kubernetes
- smartbit 7y agoWith these these resources it will be difficult not to pass the CKA exam: - kubernauts.slack.com & https://twitter.com/kubernauts/ https://twitter.com/kubernauts/ - https://github.com/walidshaari/Kubernetes-Certified-Administrator https://github.com/walidshaari/Kubernetes-Certified-Administ... - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13EQKZSQDounPC1I6EC4PmqaRmdCrpT3qswQJz9KRCyE/edit https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13EQKZSQDounPC1I6EC4P...
- xena 7y agoBanging your head into things until it works, then figuring out why it worked.
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
- JoshMcguigan 7y agoI know the author has other goals (a desire to learn/practice kubernetes, and keep host their blog the same way as the other services they manage), but I'd like to point out here that if your end goal is a blog which auto-deploys on each push to master, Netlify has a fantastic free tier. I use Gatsby/Netlify, and operations/deployment is a 100% non-issue, and the site is very fast.
- cutler 7y agoI gave up at Dyson running Terraform running Kubernetes. He's right - dev tooling has become a cult. Give me PHP+LAMP on a VPS any day over this madness.
- xena 7y agoIt's more dyson running terraform to tell DigitalOcean to run Kubernetes :D
- worldsayshi 7y agoDyson, Terraform, Helm. I don't quite understand why to add so many additional tools for simple deployments? Just use kubectl? And if you really have a use case for using all those tools then it doesn't seem like your deployment is that simple anyway so is it that surprising that the configuration seems complex?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- wayoutthere 7y agoI mean, good on the author, but this isn’t what Kubernetes is really for. Kubernetes is basically a way to run a Java-like application server that can run things other than Java. If that sounds like an appealing prospect to you, the complexity of Kubernetes may be a good fit. Kubernetes is complex because sometimes you need to be able to do complex things. Sometimes you operate at a scale where spending 12 hours writing a deployment script is ok, because it will save you hundreds of hours in the near term. Kubernetes expects you to write a bunch of custom integrations to tie your k8s clusters into whatever ITSM / ITIL process you use. But complaining that running a blog on Kubernetes is too complex is like complaining that a semi is a terrible vehicle because it’s hard to park at the grocery store.
- arethuza 7y agoWhere would you draw the dividing line between where you think it does make sense to use something like Kubernetes and where it doesn't?
- wayoutthere 7y agoThere isn’t a dividing line per se; every operating model is going to have different breakpoints. In general though, I would consider Kubernetes an “enterprise technology”. If you’re a startup you’re going to be better off paying AWS/Heroku for one of their more managed services than hiring someone to build / manage a Kubernetes cluster.
- falcolas 7y agoA note on this - AWS (or any other host's) managed k8s will not reduce the need to understand what's going on under the hood. It's still k8s, you're just not running the daemons to make it work (which is, arguably, the easy part).
- bryanlarsen 7y agoYou've signed an > 99.9% availability SLA with a customer and a service like Elastic Beanstalk or Heroku isn't sufficient for your needs.
- mirceal 7y agostep 1) keeping a service up and running is hard. we have all these issues and it seems like we are struggling to do simple things step 2) only if there was some magic tech that could solve all these issues. and have a cool name. and we could put it on out resumes... drum roll: K8Sssssss step 3) bro. it’s working. i don’t really understand what it’s doing but look at all the containers we are running. and the config... super configurable. we’re devops we can figure this shit out right? step 4) what do you mean we have to update the k8s version we’re running on? we barely got this one working. ahh... the beta tools we were using got a bit more polish... makes sense.... step 5) sob silently when you realize that the work k8s has supposedly saved you now goes into maintaining the k8s cluster. reminisce about the good all days when you could just xcopy deploy your app. epilogue) in the age of the cloud, k8s make zero sense to me. use the abstraction provided by your cloud and focus on writing your crappy app. you’re not google or amazon. you don’t have to solve the problems they do and you’ll probably never have their scale. oh? you have thousands or bare-metal servers and looking for a solution that can help manage them? you can also afford a dedicated ops TEAM to manage them? (dave jumping on the latest tech trend does not count as a team). go ahead!!!
- xena 7y agoI'm partially convinced that the "we're google scale" is cargo-culting.
- peterburkimsher 7y agoYesterday I caught up with an old friend from where I grew up, for the first time in 12 years. He said many good things about Kubernetes. He's working for a Swiss bank, and managing an ops team. In his case, I think k8s makes sense. Then there's me. Doing remote work, struggling to sort out visas, wishing I could have his kind of life and stability, wondering how it all went wrong. To get a job like his requires experience in Kubernetes, Oracle, etc. I can't get that kind of experience with side projects. "dave jumping on the latest tech trend" is probably trying to build up his résumé, rather than actually help the company. As someone who needs to build up his own résumé, what do you suggest to gain experience in this kind of technology? I don't want to intentionally deceive the company to let me try it when I know they don't need it. But I know that I need to learn it somehow.
- bovermyer 7y agoI use Docker Swarm for my personal projects. It works, and when it doesn't, I can hit it with a hammer and knock all my sites offline for a few minutes and no one will notice. Then it comes back and I can forget about it for awhile again. I'm looking at switching to Kubernetes. It will be more effort to set up and maintain, it will cost more in terms of infrastructure, and I have to write more automation to handle side effects. The benefit would be that I then know how to do this when I inevitably have to set up Kubernetes for my day job (I'm a consultant). Automating the installation and configuration of apps on a raw VM would be far easier and make more sense for personal projects. I don't do this because I already know how to do this.
- kkapelon 7y agoKubernetes solves several problems. The big question is whether YOU HAVE those problems. If no, then K8s is indeed questionable/not needed. I have a single question for the author of the article: Have you ever worked for a company where you must manage/deploy to N servers where N > 100 and applications are written in M programming languages where M > 3 ? F.D. I work for Codefresh a CI/CD solution with built-in Kubernetes support
- dangoljames 7y agoThanks, I'll be staying the hell away from this...
- sandGorgon 7y agothe difference between K8S and something like Swarm - viz far simpler (and nicer for 80% of the deployment usecases out there) is the way that the community was built up. I really wish Docker had done a better job with engaging the community.
- nilkn 7y agoKubernetes is for when you need to run thousands of containers on a large cluster and you want to be able to do it both locally (on-prem) and in the cloud. It's for cases where you already have operations staff who can manage it on-prem for you. It's for cases where you have a dozen teams and you want any developer from any team to be able to spin up a fresh instance of software from any other team for dev, testing, etc., all on one pool of shared hardware. It's not for your blog, and it's not for your startup of 10 people where you can just use purely managed services on AWS or Google Cloud. (That said, there's obviously nothing wrong with using a personal blog as a playground to learn new technologies.)
- fastbmk 7y agoKubernetes Failure Stories https://github.com/hjacobs/kubernetes-failure-stories https://github.com/hjacobs/kubernetes-failure-stories
- julienfr112 7y agoThere are layers of architecture you use, and then layers abstraction you add all by yourself : doku over dyson over terraform over kubernetes over digitaloceans Maybe you can remove two or three layers.
- humbleMouse 7y agoThese posts about kubernetes are so ridiculous. Installing kubernetes on multiple servers is not difficult, and understanding the components is pretty straightforward if you've ever worked on a distributed system. If you don't want to be in the "cult", dont use it. Meanwhile i'll be writing service and deployment yamls and avoiding all the proprietary expensive aws bs.
- asdfman123 7y agoIt's not difficult if it's your full time job. The learning curve is punishing though if you're trying to learn it from 9-12 AM on Saturday.
- tootie 7y agoThe fundamental flaw with Kubernetes is that the UI is so bad. The abstraction is leaky and the naming is confusing. It certainly didn't stop git adoption.
- root_axis 7y agoSo what? It wasn't designed to make it easier for hobbyists to deploy their weekend projects, it's meant to provide ops-engineers with an infrastructure-as-code abstraction for distributed applications.
- deadmik3 7y agoExactly. The point of the first meme in the blog post isn't "kubernetes is so overcomplicated why would anyone deploy their blog on it", it's "your blog is nowhere near complex enough to merit running on kubernetes". Everyone here is blaming the truck company instead of the person that bought a flatbed to transport a 2-lb box
- markbnj 7y agoThis is quite a bit like comparing moving your stuff into an apartment vs. building a house to move your stuff into. If you don't need the flexibility and stability of owning the structure then it's best to rent just what you do need. If you do need a house, then it's worthwhile to compare the complexity and costs of different methods of construction.
- bvandewalle 7y agoI use Kubernetes extensively and the greatest benefit to me is that it became an implicit standard API interface for any Container type workload. This means I can launch my clusters on AWS//GCP, on prem or any other cloud provider and use the same high level objects to deploy my distributed application. I will agree that a lot of people go overkill with Kubernetes and you absolutely don't need Kubernetes to deploy a simple web server. As usual use the right tool for the job.
- naringas 7y agoI once set up an Elasticsearch cluster in Kubernetes. My conclusion was that it was totally redundant because in the end I made a few super-nodes that each run one super-pod (which is basically just one node from the elasticsearch cluster) I was confusing to think about the nodes of the cluster. is it a kubernetes-node? or an elasticsearch-node? after I was done, I felt terrible, but it was already working so I had to shrug it off. It is also kind of funny to think that this is all running in virtual machine which provides one kubernetes-node with runs a docker container which runs one elasticsearch-node using the Java Virtual Machine.
- orf 7y agoKubernetes isn’t fantastic for running heavily stateful applications like a database. You won’t have much fun if you try. It’s for stateless services that can be killed, scars down and scaled up at will with minimal disruption.
- lucisferre 7y agoSo what's the magical alternative here? And lets not pretend that the goal is deploying a blog.
- brifee 7y agoI was trying to get airflow (https://airflow.apache.org/ https://airflow.apache.org/) up and running in the cloud. It has a few moving pieces that I didn't want to worry about. So I used a helm chart to install it - https://github.com/helm/charts/blob/master/stable/airflow https://github.com/helm/charts/blob/master/stable/airflow Maybe this is overkill but it was reasonably quick to get up and running, scaling workers will be trivial, and the Airflow Kubernetes Operator opens up a lot of options for tasks. The vanilla install was pretty quick. Understanding the configurations took a bit more time. I would like to hear other thoughts about simpler ways to deploy this that don't require Kubernetes.
- rmetzler 7y agoThere aren't simpler ways to deploy cluster software. Kubernetes might be overkill for a blog, but it's not overkill for a lot of cluster software. And with Helm charts it's really easy to run it.
- root_axis 7y agoThis is another case of "I have never encountered and don't deeply understand the problems this tool was built to solve, thus the tool is totally unnecessary and the people who use it are part of a cult". This is the same kind of flawed reasoning you see in the front-end world where a bunch of people complain that they do all their work in jQuery so React must be a cult. Pasting what I wrote in another comment: The goal isn't "ease of deployment", the goal is "infrastructure as code" so that application infrastructure can be managed in a way similar to application source code (e.g. PRs, blame, code reviews, CI, rollbacks etc). This helps ops people because it allows them to think about infrastructure as abstract resources rather than as a collection of individual machines with specific designations. With k8s, individual machines become a homogenized resource that do not need specialized provisioning depending on the application they will host.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- tnolet 7y ago...and the crux of the problem is where people who have never encountered the problem Kubernetes solves, still start using Kubernetes.
- outside1234 7y agoOften it is that they think they have never encountered the problem Kubernetes solves or have "gotten lucky" and never encountered it.
- devoply 7y agoWell how else do you build webscale software? What if later you want to deploy microservices. Premature optimization seems like a good idea with infrastructure because you have room to grow.
- dkarl 7y agoI think the crux of the problem is that everyone encounters the problem Kubernetes solves. As the GP states, Kubernetes gives you "infrastructure as code" so that application infrastructure can be managed in a way similar to application source code (e.g. PRs, blame, code reviews, CI, rollbacks etc). This helps ops people because it allows them to think about infrastructure as abstract resources rather than as a collection of individual machines with specific designations Who doesn't want that? Of course you want that. But will the investment of time and effort pay off for your organization, and if so, how quickly? That's the hard question to answer. It depends on scale, personnel, the types of workloads involved, how easily your tools and practices can be updated, and presumably many other considerations. From my personal experience it seems like in practice the answer to this question is so murky that the deciding factors turn out to be social, including the personal risk aversiveness of the people making the decision, people's loyalty to the company versus their own resume, and whether leadership cultivates a hyperoptimistic growth mentality of making 10x or even 100x decisions (i.e., make decisions assuming the company will be 10x or 100x bigger in a year.) The problem, then, is helping people compare the cost/benefit of Kubernetes compared to their current practices, for their own organization.
- fevangelou 7y ago./deploy_kubernetes.sh The next billion dollar idea.
- deadmik3 7y agohack/local-up-cluster.sh
- bechampion 7y agoRemember when Linux was hard to install and run as desktop ( multiple screens , acpi , sound , winmodems ) ?? We all have had this colleague that gets frustrated and installs windows after 10 minutes , And spends the rest of his life saying that Linux is of fanatics , geeks etc . Well this post it's literally the same .
- aprdm 7y agoMy team maintains a platform that runs in datacenters across four continents, a private cloud. 1000s of VMs We use VMware and have its API hooked up to Ansible as well as Consul and monitoring. We then make Ansible playbooks available for devs to create services which takes around 5 minutes to run. Since it has consul and monitoring hooked in we automatically create entries in DNS and can auto scale. We have services running in docker (without kubernetes), consul is ultimately responsible for, based on service metadata, hooking containers to the ingress traffic through the Fabio load balancer. I would like to understand what we are missing by not using kubernetes, every time I think about it and talk with developers I feel it isn't worth it. My team would have to maintain an extra layer of complexity that can get us called at night for no clear business gain. Would love to know what we're missing.
- jeremyjh 7y agoIt sounds like you've written your own Kubernetes. Congratulations, I guess.
- aprdm 7y agoWe have to support a lot of non docker workflows in this platform. Some of the services are more than 10 years old.
- jacques_chester 7y ago> Would love to know what we're missing. Having an upstream who isn't you.
- aprdm 7y agoSorry what do you mean by that? Consul, Ansible, Prometheus and other parts of the stack we maintain all have their upstreams. If you mean running a managed Kubernetes in the cloud, would love to that but for our workflows we have to run on prems for most of the infrastructure. It's a lot of data and compute. A bit like saying google should use aws for their internal services.
- honkycat 7y agoKubernetes is seriously not that complicated and after using deployutil on Google cloud and cloudformation on AWS: it is a great abstraction and a massive improvement over dealing with existing cloud deployment solutions.
- jchiu1106 7y agolol use kubernetes to deploy a blog...
- fulafel 7y agoThe Heroku/App Engine model seems so obviously superior for 99% of apps that it's puzzling how much more press all these full-time-job platforms like k8s, AWS serverless, etc get. Maybe the job thing is the answer.
- kitplummer 7y agoOh yeah. Well then Threads are Cult too.
- znpy 7y agoSo many red flags in this article. So the author was previously using dokku. Dokku was cool, and was basically a docker-based heroku clone. The keyword here is heroku, because dokku basically brings away a lot of the operations work that is needed to actually run a service, at a small scale, with reasonably good results. Dokku was cool, but it didn't really scale beyond one node (unless you have multiple machines running dokku, of course) So with dokku gone, the author still wants the features of heroku, and still doesn't work to peform all the operations work. So the author goes to Kubernetes and realises that there's operations work to do. Guess what? Somebody still has to do the Operations part. If you don't want to do pay for some managed hosting (like, as per previous keyword, heroku) you'll have to do it yourself. Have fun. Now, kubernetes is complex and the learning curve is steep. Kubernetes is designed to scale up to hundreds of nodes. Needless to say, complex tasks require complex tools. Complexity has to be paid somehow. Either you pay in money (Heroku) or you pay with your own time and efforts. Once again, there's nothing new under the sun: there's no free lunch.