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Same reason that when they show the shooter's face all over the media and they give them tons and tons of attention, it typically spawns more copycats who are j

Same reason that when they show the shooter's face all over the media and they give them tons and tons of attention, it typically spawns more copycats who are just lonely/sad/broken teens looking for the same attention. In the show, this teen's suicide was portrayed to have had an impact on many students/families/teachers etc for a very long time after the incident. It almost glorified the suicide and the methods of leaving tapes behind. Real suicide is not so glorious and does not leave a much of an impact as you would think, other than on the immediate family. For example, when my mother committed suicide, my sister, grandparents and myself were impacted severely for a bit, but outside of our family circle it didn't have as much of an impact. When I was in high school, we had a student commit suicide, which we ended up having 1 school meeting regarding it, but after about a week it had been forgotten by most and swept under the rug as everyone moved on to the next thing. I guess I am biased based on my two experiences with suicide, however glorifying it in any way will only lead to more incidents.

quedicestu 7y ago
This is true in some cases, and false in others. It is sad to think how ephemeral life can be, but the living and legacy aspects. It can also be freeing.
pm90 7y ago
Makes sense. But how do we address it? It’s not like we can stop the media from reporting on such things. Perhaps the show could have been rated for adults only? It seems like teens today do face challenges that weren’t faced by my generation or the ones before that. Social media, internet enabled always on devices seem to have changed the experience of being a teenager. Perhaps there are deeper issues at stake that need addressing?
- aaomidi 7y ago
  Back when hollywood was facing censorship they realized they need to self censor or stats like this will be used against them. This is an example of where Netflix acted without thinking what impacts a show like this will have. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and this was on Netflix to resolve. The first step in this case would be to take it down from Netflix. Or they're going to face people calling for it to be taken down through the state.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    You mean the same "state" that blames "violent video games" for mass violence ignoring the centuries of lynching in the US?
    - aaomidi 7y ago
      I never said the state is an always good or always bad entity. It's there to respond to people, and sometimes make its own shit up because of money. I'm just explaining the system we have right now and how netflix is playing with fire.
- rhcom2 7y ago
  There are ways to report on suicide responsibly that are supported by evidence[1]. I think we need similar guidelines for mass shootings. [1] http://reportingonsuicide.org/ http://reportingonsuicide.org/
- dpkonofa 7y ago
  >It’s not like we can stop the media from reporting on such things. Sure you can. Stop watching it. Tell your friends to stop watching it and why. The media nowadays is all about going over the top and sensationalizing things because that's what gets the eyeballs on the screens and that's where the advertisements get them money. Hurt their wallets and they'll stop.
  - avgDev 7y ago
    This will never work IMO. Media has done the work, the work is based on science. Some people are turned off by current news media but they know more eye balls will tune in if it is over the top. These companies are exploiting human nature. We cannot hurt their wallets because generally people don't care. Maybe eventually humans will change. However, once they notice different trends they will adopt. They don't care either, they just maximizing profits. It is simple really.
    - dpkonofa 7y ago
      This is exactly my point. The only way this will change is when it's profitable to do the right thing.
  - pixelbath 7y ago
    Ok, I didn't watch it. I described it as "some teen drama series glorifying a girl who commits suicide" whenever the show was mentioned. I advised my kids (who are nearly adult age) that they shouldn't even bother with it (they didn't watch it). Did it work? There is far too much momentum behind mass-market media for this nearly passive resistance to be effective. Things like "'13 Reasons Why' linked to 29% increase in in teen suicides 1 month later" have far more impact and are more effective. Public outrage seems to work, for better or worse.
    - dpkonofa 7y ago
      >this nearly passive resistance to be effective My entire point is to be active about the resistance. Don't just stop using something. Tell others to stop using and say why. Cease any and all contact with that media channel. The only way this works is when the right thing to do also happens to be the profitable thing to do.
- sjg007 7y ago
  I don't think we really understand the root causes of suicide and we don't have mechanisms for intervention outside of an actual saved suicide attempt. I don't think we have support mechanisms in society. Also society itself has become more divisive and less kind. I think we need to become a kinder society. Access to firearms is also a problem because it makes the initial attempt much more likely to succeed. High school kids need to know that it gets better, there are more options in life than academic success and going to the "right" school. We should also remove the future burden of student loans.
umvi 7y ago
The scary thing is that both this article and the example you cited are used as reasons to limit constitutional freedoms: Limit second amendment more to prevent mass shootings. Limit first amendment more to prevent suicides. Really though, we should be focusing on the root cause: lonely/sad/broken people. Focus on helping/loving them and I bet suicide/mass shooting rates drop significantly.
- TheArcane 7y ago
  > Limit second amendment more to prevent more shootings. I've always wondered the validity of a "constitutional freedom" that allows random everyday people to own and operate tools that are essentially killing machines.
  - mieseratte 7y ago
    > I've always wondered the validity of a "constitutional freedom" that allows random everyday people to own and operate tools that are essentially killing machines. Not sure why you put quotes around constitutional freedom. The reason for the amendment is such that when someone or someones come along and attempt to abridge your rights you can kill them with the killing machine. As simple as that.
    - jakelazaroff 7y ago
      It will always be weird to me that threatening to murder other citizens for some vague, ill-defined hypothetical transgression is a mainstream, mostly accepted political viewpoint here in the US.
      - mieseratte 7y ago
        > It will always be weird to me that threatening to murder other citizens for some vague, ill-defined hypothetical transgression is a mainstream, mostly accepted political viewpoint here in the US. It's weird to me that advocating for the cessation of an absolute right to self-defense is a mainstream political position. It's not as if history is one peachy peace-and-love orgy.
ajeet_dhaliwal 7y ago
I don't have much experience with suicide but to add to this, I think attention can go both ways. I once saw a picture of someone who had committed suicide and it was quite distressing. Attention can both lead to glorification or put people off, depending on the way it's done. In most cases it seems to be hidden away and people may not know what actually happens when they do this. One common example now is the jumping off a bridge death into water is still considered a peaceful way to go whereas it's extremely violent and all the organs are ripped out of their positions.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > I don't have much experience with suicide but to add to this, I think attention can go both ways. It's the difference between a ruggedly handsome cowboy and a diseased lung on your pack of smokes.
duxup 7y ago
NPR did a good story on a study that examined what shooters DO and DO NOT like. They like videos of chaos and screaming. They like their photo shown. They don't like stories about the victims that make the victims seem like they're human. What they were doing before the shootings, things they did with their lives, etc. They don't like stories about the community itself that aren't just about the event (shooting). I noticed NPR does a lot of stories about the the victims. Nothing should be legally restricted, but I think news orgs can do their job 100% and still participate in a potentially helpful manner. To be clear there is no science that says doing any of these things reduce any amount of shooting or such, but it seems like a reasonable theory that if they see shootings result in coverage they don't like, it might discourage them if they think they won't get what they want.
- giggles_giggles 7y ago
  I'm surprised that what shooters like/do not like can be generalized like this. I would have expected that it was more dependent upon the specific psychology of the shooter than this.
  - duxup 7y ago
    IIRC a lot of mass shooters are focused on the aftermath and coverage / impact of their acts and what they imagine the media coverage is was important to a lot of them. I suspect there are exceptions. Also due to the number of people available for study I have to think certainly possible that things aren't as the study implied.
  - awakeasleep 7y ago
    Especially interesting that this is 'known' considering how most shooters die in the event.
    - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
      A lot of the research about shooters can be based on their manifestos/writings, and many shooters have shown interest in previous shooters and coverage of them, so that's probably where a lot of this could be drawn from.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
notus 7y ago
It didn't almost glorify suicide, it 100% glorified suicide.
jdavis703 7y ago
> Real suicide is not so glorious and does not leave a much of an impact as you would think, other than on the immediate family. This isn't true. I can still remember the bloodied face of a woman I saw struck by a train. I remember the pedastrian strikes I've seen whenever I ride past the location or go through the station. If I jump in front of a train I can delay tens of thousands of people. I'm wasting several person years of other people's time. I might get in the news just for that. The train engineer will remember that moment for the rest of their life. So will the people who saw my jump. And the maintenance man who has to clean my blood and guts off the train will also remember.
soperj 7y ago
I think you'd be surprised. I had a friend for a couple years in Junior High. He had some family issues, and ended up getting kicked out of school, and we lost touch. 6-7 years after high school, he killed himself. I've never talked to the family, but still think about him.
cameronbrown 7y ago
> When I was in high school, we had a student commit suicide, which we ended up having 1 school meeting regarding it, but after about a week it had been forgotten by most and swept under the rug as everyone moved on to the next thing. I've had a similar situation, but with the total opposite experience. The entire town had railed around the event.
4ntonius8lock 7y ago
You are absolutely right they glamorized suicide. But doesn't all media do that for the most part? I mean, most people are looking for escapism. It's particularly galling that they do it with suicide, but it's what people want: 1- Movies/TV glamorizes violence from gangsters/mob/police/army... or they demonize it. 2- Movies glamorize drinking/smoking/taking drugs... or they demonize it. 3- Movies glamorize casual sex/strip clubs... or they demonize it. 4- Movies glamorize college... or they demonize it. 5- Movies glamorize having money... or they demonize it. 6- Movies glamorize 'justice' (criminal justice, etc) I think the series is an insult to everyone who has been exposed to a suicide in their life, but I think that applies to many points. The guy who spent 15 years in jail falsely convicted won't appreciate the BS that is CSI. Just like the guy who is a recovering alcoholic, the ex-stripper, the person who lived real life violence like war, etc. Whenever something bothers me, and this series bothers me plenty, I look within and why it bothers me. Why other things that might be similar don't. It really helps me understand our shared humanity.
appleshore 7y ago
People underestimate the prevalence of random suicidal thoughts. A lot is probably intrusive thoughts or just life frustrations pushed into a form. People should be taught to be skeptical of bad thoughts and understand how chaotic the brain can act. Otherwise random thoughts can materialize into fixations and be re-enforced by biases. Life is hard, it occasionally gets you down but thinking bad thoughts doesn’t make you “sick”, it just makes you human.

quedicestu 7y ago

This is true in some cases, and false in others. It is sad to think how ephemeral life can be, but the living and legacy aspects. It can also be freeing.

pm90 7y ago

Makes sense. But how do we address it? It’s not like we can stop the media from reporting on such things. Perhaps the show could have been rated for adults only? It seems like teens today do face challenges that weren’t faced by my generation or the ones before that. Social media, internet enabled always on devices seem to have changed the experience of being a teenager. Perhaps there are deeper issues at stake that need addressing?

aaomidi 7y ago
Back when hollywood was facing censorship they realized they need to self censor or stats like this will be used against them. This is an example of where Netflix acted without thinking what impacts a show like this will have. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and this was on Netflix to resolve. The first step in this case would be to take it down from Netflix. Or they're going to face people calling for it to be taken down through the state.
- scarface74 7y ago
  You mean the same "state" that blames "violent video games" for mass violence ignoring the centuries of lynching in the US?
  - aaomidi 7y ago
    I never said the state is an always good or always bad entity. It's there to respond to people, and sometimes make its own shit up because of money. I'm just explaining the system we have right now and how netflix is playing with fire.
rhcom2 7y ago
There are ways to report on suicide responsibly that are supported by evidence[1]. I think we need similar guidelines for mass shootings. [1] http://reportingonsuicide.org/ http://reportingonsuicide.org/
dpkonofa 7y ago
>It’s not like we can stop the media from reporting on such things. Sure you can. Stop watching it. Tell your friends to stop watching it and why. The media nowadays is all about going over the top and sensationalizing things because that's what gets the eyeballs on the screens and that's where the advertisements get them money. Hurt their wallets and they'll stop.
- avgDev 7y ago
  This will never work IMO. Media has done the work, the work is based on science. Some people are turned off by current news media but they know more eye balls will tune in if it is over the top. These companies are exploiting human nature. We cannot hurt their wallets because generally people don't care. Maybe eventually humans will change. However, once they notice different trends they will adopt. They don't care either, they just maximizing profits. It is simple really.
  - dpkonofa 7y ago
    This is exactly my point. The only way this will change is when it's profitable to do the right thing.
- pixelbath 7y ago
  Ok, I didn't watch it. I described it as "some teen drama series glorifying a girl who commits suicide" whenever the show was mentioned. I advised my kids (who are nearly adult age) that they shouldn't even bother with it (they didn't watch it). Did it work? There is far too much momentum behind mass-market media for this nearly passive resistance to be effective. Things like "'13 Reasons Why' linked to 29% increase in in teen suicides 1 month later" have far more impact and are more effective. Public outrage seems to work, for better or worse.
  - dpkonofa 7y ago
    >this nearly passive resistance to be effective My entire point is to be active about the resistance. Don't just stop using something. Tell others to stop using and say why. Cease any and all contact with that media channel. The only way this works is when the right thing to do also happens to be the profitable thing to do.
sjg007 7y ago
I don't think we really understand the root causes of suicide and we don't have mechanisms for intervention outside of an actual saved suicide attempt. I don't think we have support mechanisms in society. Also society itself has become more divisive and less kind. I think we need to become a kinder society. Access to firearms is also a problem because it makes the initial attempt much more likely to succeed. High school kids need to know that it gets better, there are more options in life than academic success and going to the "right" school. We should also remove the future burden of student loans.

umvi 7y ago

The scary thing is that both this article and the example you cited are used as reasons to limit constitutional freedoms: Limit second amendment more to prevent mass shootings. Limit first amendment more to prevent suicides. Really though, we should be focusing on the root cause: lonely/sad/broken people. Focus on helping/loving them and I bet suicide/mass shooting rates drop significantly.

TheArcane 7y ago
> Limit second amendment more to prevent more shootings. I've always wondered the validity of a "constitutional freedom" that allows random everyday people to own and operate tools that are essentially killing machines.
- mieseratte 7y ago
  > I've always wondered the validity of a "constitutional freedom" that allows random everyday people to own and operate tools that are essentially killing machines. Not sure why you put quotes around constitutional freedom. The reason for the amendment is such that when someone or someones come along and attempt to abridge your rights you can kill them with the killing machine. As simple as that.
  - jakelazaroff 7y ago
    It will always be weird to me that threatening to murder other citizens for some vague, ill-defined hypothetical transgression is a mainstream, mostly accepted political viewpoint here in the US.
    - mieseratte 7y ago
      > It will always be weird to me that threatening to murder other citizens for some vague, ill-defined hypothetical transgression is a mainstream, mostly accepted political viewpoint here in the US. It's weird to me that advocating for the cessation of an absolute right to self-defense is a mainstream political position. It's not as if history is one peachy peace-and-love orgy.

ajeet_dhaliwal 7y ago

I don't have much experience with suicide but to add to this, I think attention can go both ways. I once saw a picture of someone who had committed suicide and it was quite distressing. Attention can both lead to glorification or put people off, depending on the way it's done. In most cases it seems to be hidden away and people may not know what actually happens when they do this. One common example now is the jumping off a bridge death into water is still considered a peaceful way to go whereas it's extremely violent and all the organs are ripped out of their positions.

mieseratte 7y ago
> I don't have much experience with suicide but to add to this, I think attention can go both ways. It's the difference between a ruggedly handsome cowboy and a diseased lung on your pack of smokes.

duxup 7y ago

NPR did a good story on a study that examined what shooters DO and DO NOT like. They like videos of chaos and screaming. They like their photo shown. They don't like stories about the victims that make the victims seem like they're human. What they were doing before the shootings, things they did with their lives, etc. They don't like stories about the community itself that aren't just about the event (shooting). I noticed NPR does a lot of stories about the the victims. Nothing should be legally restricted, but I think news orgs can do their job 100% and still participate in a potentially helpful manner. To be clear there is no science that says doing any of these things reduce any amount of shooting or such, but it seems like a reasonable theory that if they see shootings result in coverage they don't like, it might discourage them if they think they won't get what they want.

giggles_giggles 7y ago
I'm surprised that what shooters like/do not like can be generalized like this. I would have expected that it was more dependent upon the specific psychology of the shooter than this.
- duxup 7y ago
  IIRC a lot of mass shooters are focused on the aftermath and coverage / impact of their acts and what they imagine the media coverage is was important to a lot of them. I suspect there are exceptions. Also due to the number of people available for study I have to think certainly possible that things aren't as the study implied.
- awakeasleep 7y ago
  Especially interesting that this is 'known' considering how most shooters die in the event.
  - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
    A lot of the research about shooters can be based on their manifestos/writings, and many shooters have shown interest in previous shooters and coverage of them, so that's probably where a lot of this could be drawn from.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

notus 7y ago

It didn't almost glorify suicide, it 100% glorified suicide.

jdavis703 7y ago

> Real suicide is not so glorious and does not leave a much of an impact as you would think, other than on the immediate family. This isn't true. I can still remember the bloodied face of a woman I saw struck by a train. I remember the pedastrian strikes I've seen whenever I ride past the location or go through the station. If I jump in front of a train I can delay tens of thousands of people. I'm wasting several person years of other people's time. I might get in the news just for that. The train engineer will remember that moment for the rest of their life. So will the people who saw my jump. And the maintenance man who has to clean my blood and guts off the train will also remember.

soperj 7y ago

I think you'd be surprised. I had a friend for a couple years in Junior High. He had some family issues, and ended up getting kicked out of school, and we lost touch. 6-7 years after high school, he killed himself. I've never talked to the family, but still think about him.

cameronbrown 7y ago

> When I was in high school, we had a student commit suicide, which we ended up having 1 school meeting regarding it, but after about a week it had been forgotten by most and swept under the rug as everyone moved on to the next thing. I've had a similar situation, but with the total opposite experience. The entire town had railed around the event.

4ntonius8lock 7y ago

You are absolutely right they glamorized suicide. But doesn't all media do that for the most part? I mean, most people are looking for escapism. It's particularly galling that they do it with suicide, but it's what people want: 1- Movies/TV glamorizes violence from gangsters/mob/police/army... or they demonize it. 2- Movies glamorize drinking/smoking/taking drugs... or they demonize it. 3- Movies glamorize casual sex/strip clubs... or they demonize it. 4- Movies glamorize college... or they demonize it. 5- Movies glamorize having money... or they demonize it. 6- Movies glamorize 'justice' (criminal justice, etc) I think the series is an insult to everyone who has been exposed to a suicide in their life, but I think that applies to many points. The guy who spent 15 years in jail falsely convicted won't appreciate the BS that is CSI. Just like the guy who is a recovering alcoholic, the ex-stripper, the person who lived real life violence like war, etc. Whenever something bothers me, and this series bothers me plenty, I look within and why it bothers me. Why other things that might be similar don't. It really helps me understand our shared humanity.

appleshore 7y ago

People underestimate the prevalence of random suicidal thoughts. A lot is probably intrusive thoughts or just life frustrations pushed into a form. People should be taught to be skeptical of bad thoughts and understand how chaotic the brain can act. Otherwise random thoughts can materialize into fixations and be re-enforced by biases. Life is hard, it occasionally gets you down but thinking bad thoughts doesn’t make you “sick”, it just makes you human.