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Cryptic, allusive messages from Hong Kong's wealthiest tycoon
- JulianMorrison 7y agoConclusion: Chinese is absolutely the best language-family to make cryptic, gnomic, multi-layered allusions and sound like you've lived 100,000 years up a mountain eating nothing but fresh mountain air and magical peaches.
- mc32 7y agoObviously very unsophisticated compared to Chinese, but here is a similar vehicle by Kubernator Schwarzenegger to the CA State assembly: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_336319 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_336319
- dqpb 7y agoThat's pretty great
- 1-6 7y agoIt sounds like you're summed up VB and COBOL as well.
- dr_dshiv 7y agoI hope this all turns out well..
- thecopy 7y agoThe impasse Hong Kong finds itself must be solved by the Chief Executive. Her leadership in this matter is severely lacking and one wonders if the has any autonomous power at all, or if its all controlled by Beijing. Especially seeing how she evaded that question quite gracelessly a few days ago when asked by a reporter.
- AmericanChopper 7y agoI don’t think anybody seriously thinks Hong Kong has any meaningful level of autonomy. The impasse is that Hong Kongers want freedom and democracy, and China wants Hong Kong to be China. I can’t see what the Chief Executive could possibly do. Either the protestors will give up, or stage a revolution, which seems unlikely for a population armed with umbrellas.
- thecopy 7y ago> I can’t see what the Chief Executive could possibly do Your assumption that HK doesn't have any autonomy might have something to do with that ;) As to what she could do: she can do a lot; the protestors have a list of 5 demands, one of them is the withdrawal of the extradition-bill. She could comply with that, for example.
- billfruit 7y agoWhich she has declared to have been withdrawn.
- decoyworker 7y agoHas not been formally withdrawn.
- spacehunt 7y agoShe declared it "dead" which is not a legal term.
- smcl 7y agoCan someone who knows HK weigh in on how likely this is to be subtle deliberate messaging, or whether it’s like Qanon (where “Q” just says vague things, and the followers go wild with all sorts of interpretations that confirm what they already think).
- bonzini 7y agoThe second part seems pretty direct.
- Apfel 7y agoThe discussion being entirely banned on Weibo also implies that it's deliberate. Try searching "李嘉诚发声" and you'll get a message saying "According to relevant laws, regulations and policies, this page is not found"
- kirstenbirgit 7y agoDon't they just block anything that even barely mentions HK independence?
- longsangstan 7y agoActually, HK independence is deliberately mentioned a lot in Weibo. They want to paint the protesters as pro-HK independence but in fact this is not one of our five demands. And of course they block all the stuffs that make the HK gov and police look bad.
- ridaj 7y agoDidn't they block Winnie the Pooh images because it had come to represent Xi Jinping? Those images maybe weren't deliberately provocative when produced as a children's cartoon, but the context made them so. Sane thing could happen here?
- hrson 7y ago> The discussion being entirely banned on Weibo I have also noticed sharing videos WeChat seems to be on whitelist mode 2 nights ago. Speculation is that there were heavy traffic for sharing globally resulting in all videos on WeChat were temporarily shadow banned until individually approved.
- est31 7y agoLoads very slowly for me. archive.org mirror: https://web.archive.org/web/20190822110138/https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=44024 https://web.archive.org/web/20190822110138/https://languagel...
- appleflaxen 7y agoThat appears to be an incredibly classy thing to do, at no small risk to himself. The billionaires have the most to lose with any social unrest, and he exposed himself to support the masses. If so: Respect Counter-possibility: it's a CYA maneuver, which supports both sides simlutaneously and either message can be declared as "intended" post-hoc.
- phatfish 7y agoAgreed he has put himself in more "danger" by this action, but billionaires like him certainly do not have the most to loose. He will have investments, properties, friends or family outside HK. He can simply pay his way to citizenship in most countries around the world. The average HK citizen has everything to lose, their rights and way of life. He will loose some money and property at the most, depending on how he decides to play it.
- munificent 7y agoI think both you and the parent comment are correct. A billionaire has the greatest potential for relative change from the consequences of their actions. They have more chips they can put on the table and thus they can experience a change in fortune larger than others. At the same time, the poor have the greatest potential for suffering. With fewer chips to put on the table, they are much closer to getting kicked out of the game entirely.
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- draw_down 7y agoSomething tells me no situation fits the description “billionaires have the most to lose”.
- andromeduck 7y agoIf you think that's classy, rumours are saying Rupert Hogg, the former Cathay CEO chose to give his own name and step down when China demanded he give up the names of staff who protested. https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3765103 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3765103
- namelosw 7y agoIf you speak Chinese, you'll find it's very easy to squeeze sentences in exact same characters. Almost all poems in China (except very modern ones) do this. It's so easy that people in forums do this a along - being sarcastic or just funny. You could have positive meaning literally, but hide dirty words in structures. Also because it's so easy that this was defined as serious crime in many dynasties. There were even people committed it by coincidence were sentenced to death.
- dspillett 7y ago> committed it by coincidence were sentenced to death So they sentenced themselves to death with an unfortunate sentence structure.
- d33 7y ago...the sentenced sentenced themselves to a death sentence with an unfortunate sentence structure?
- namelosw 7y agoThat's a good one. My English is not sufficient to come up with this. There's also a Chinese pun story[0] with 92 characters with the same sound but different tone. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_...
- zhoujianfu 7y agoI believe the correct joke is simply: So they sentenced themselves to death.
- dspillett 7y agoProbably, I have a tendency to overcomplicate things, particularly when explaining or otherwise talking to others, which can really wreck jokes...
- _underfl0w_ 7y ago
- b_tterc_p 7y ago> “everyone knows what 4 / 6 /89 signifies” This annoyed me quite a bit. No I don’t. Most people probably don’t. It’s the date of Tiananmen Square.
- JansjoFromIkea 7y agoWould Tiananmen Square not be your first guess for any date remotely close to 1989 though, given the context?
- yoz-y 7y agoBut a guess can be wrong. As somebody from Eastern Europe many other events come to my mind first in relation with 1989.
- andromeduck 7y agoAnd why would that be in any way relevant to an article about a Chinese ad targeting other Chinese in China? Contextually it's more than obvious for anyone even casually familiar with Chinese history which the audience would be.
- NikkiA 7y agoOr the fall of the berlin wall, depending on context.
- psychrometer 7y agoFor reference, that is 9 November 1989.
- NikkiA 7y agoYes, I'm aware, was just pointing out the 'in 1989' part has 2 distinct cultural-landmark events for me
- 7y ago
- JshWright 7y ago> The poem is by the dauphin (crown prince), Li Xian (655-684) under Wu Zetian (624-705), the only female emperor in Chinese history. I've only ever heard the word "dauphin" in the context of a French crown prince (starting with Charles V, when Philip VI gave him the Dauphiné region to rule while he was still the heir). Is the term used more universally?
- SoylentOrange 7y agoI’ve heard it in at least one other context: to mean “inheritor” or anointed successor. Here is a quote from Gore Vidal: ‘I have been asked whether I wish to nominate a successor, an inheritor, a dauphin or delfino. I have decided to name Christopher Hitchens.' https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/9443914/How-Christopher-Hitchens-fell-out-with-Gore-Vidal.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/9443914/How-Christ... I’ve seen other examples in this style. Maybe folks in comments can point out more.
- NikkiA 7y agoIt's generically used as a French term for 'heir apparent'
- mytailorisrich 7y agoIn 2011 he already made comments in support of universal suffrage in Hongkong. Despite what is said in the media I don't think that this is 'brave' to state this opinion. The key is how to say it and how to behave with respect to China and the government.
- ajmurmann 7y ago> The key is how to say it and how to behave with respect to China and the government. Can you elaborate why it matters to be respectful to a dictator for life who puts huge numbers of Uighurs in concentration camps?
- kdmccormick 7y agoI'm not especially informed on the topic, but my guess is that your options for facing a totalitarian regime are: * Outright rebellion: Likely to result in large-scale violence and suffering. * Persistent gradual resistance: Messages like these may gradually sway the government to accept more progressive ideas, become a more legitimate democracy, and develop to a point where such atrocities don't happen. Doing so with an air of respect may make it more likely for mainland citizens and softer-hearted government officials to take your side. Obviously it'd be best if those responsible for concentration camps just swiftly and permanently lost all their power. But I don't know how one would make that happen.
- literallycancer 7y agowith respect to = regarding
- ajmurmann 7y agoIt's ironic I interpreted the sentence wrong given the topic of the article.
- SoylentOrange 7y agoTo the Chinese native speakers here on HN: how clear would the message have been to you, if you didn’t read the explanation on this website?
- namelosw 7y agoIt's not clear because people don't read like that (jumping for different directions), that's the intention. But once other people pointed out it became very obvious, and could almost be judged as they intended to do that. It could be a common way to trick the initial sensor from the publisher. Because most editors wouldn't notice that. But it won't hide from the mass. Once it's get published it would piss someone off.
- franzwong 7y agoI didn't notice that when I first read it. However, mainland Chinese can get the message easier because they always use this way to avoid the "big brother". Not only politics, Chinese government enforces heavy control on the speech.
- longsangstan 7y agoI have to admit it's not obvious to me at first. Especially for the second ad, you need to have good knowledge of Chinese literature to know the story behind the poem. But once I read the explanation it became quite clear since there isn't really other ways to interpret it.
- ConfusedDog 7y agoDefinitely not obvious if not pointed out like this to me, but the words generally spread fast once somebody points it out which the chance is almost 100%. To be fair, I knew HongKong and GuangZhou area are still very traditional, rooted with a lot of these ancient Chinese language games. People there might be much more conscientious looking for word games than I do.
- hrson 7y agoI knew the message "因果由國 容港治己" as it is now well known and well used slogan during the protest, so I picked it up quite easily knowing that there's a cryptic message in there. Also, this slogan is often interpreted as protestor declaration for wanting HK independence.
- trepanne 7y agoI dunno, my classical Chinese ain't all that, but I think these guys are straining with the hidden message. It is funny though. I myself am reading quite a bit of meaning into the conspicuous avoidance of the characters "tian", "an", and "men" throughout both ads. The melon ad is fairly defiant, though, in a classy kind of way. If I were a betting man, I'd take the other side. Preserving absolute rule of law in Hong Kong is as doomed as the Taiwan independence movement. The Chinese anschluss seems unstoppable.
- andromeduck 7y agoIf you read the link you'd see that did reference tiannamen by date via length of column lines. The complete hidden message is actually a bit longer: 因果由國，容港治己，義憤民誠 No way that's an accident.
- jhanschoo 7y ago> but I think these guys are straining with the hidden message In context, it likely isn't straining. If he desired to simply declare an end to violence, he could have done so in a less tortured graphical format.
- improvehk 7y agoSomewhat relevant, this tattoo says "香港" (Hong Kong) or "加油" (Add Oil) when rotated: https://twitter.com/natashakhanhk/status/1164060311743156224 https://twitter.com/natashakhanhk/status/1164060311743156224
- jimworm 7y agoLi Ka-shing is well aware. His job ad for a Chinese PA was featured in the news for its salary (HK$1Mpa) and very high requirements (expert level in modern and classical Chinese and Chinese history, 20+ years experience). https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/1567579 https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/1567579
- tony 7y agoIf you like Chinese poetry / ancient writing, I'd like to mention wengu: http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=intro http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=intro Text is laid out in the same fashion as OP. Wengu lets you mouseover characters for translation and along with an interpretation: - Book of Odes: http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Shijing&no=1 http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Shijing&no=1 - Art of War: http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Sunzi&s=1 http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Sunzi&s=1 - Book of Changes: http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Yijing&no=0 http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Yijing&no=0 - Tao Te Ching: http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Daodejing&no=0 http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Daodejing&no=0 - Analects of Confucius: http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Lunyu&no=1 http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Lunyu&no=1
- csyszf 7y ago"From born to die, you will always buy Li Ka-Shing's goods" "If there's God in HongKong, his last name must be Li" He and other oligarchs raise prices and exploit profits from people. HK Gov tried several times to press down house prices (build public rental apartments provided by gov, called 新界东北发展计划 ), all failed. What's the funniest part is, HK GOV plan to dismantle the golf courses for building public apartments, and was stopped by the name of environmental protection, House prices keep high, and riches keep their golf courses. Who will get the most benefit from those riots? Oligarchs, no competitors can enter Hong Kong again. Li himself is the devil's advocate, those oligarchs make young men can only live in cells, but nobody never is able to fight him like they fight CCP now. In this a City with the 0.539 Gini coefficient, why people hate the government on the other side than rich oligarchs? capital owns media. That, is the true power and true authority, make people fight for you while you consume them. All those things happened in Hongkong make me feel desperate about this evil world. I really hate this, no right, no wrong, no justice, no savior, everyone is just puppet of God.
- Simon_says 7y agoYour last post said you would never open HN again. Where is the courage of your convictions?
- rishav_sharan 7y agoWhy bring any personal confrontation into this discussion?
- csyszf 7y agoAnger. Sorry for the negative emotion, and shame for my word-broken, but I just cannot stand him.
- peteey 7y agoHong Kong is consistently ranked as one of the freest societies. Casting HK in a bad light implies more daunting things about the rest of the world.
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- andromeduck 7y agoThe analysis is actually incomplete. Notice how the last line has a little gap? If we combine the last words of the last two lines we actually get: 因果由國，容港治己，義憤民誠 The last part reads anger is righteous.
- tontonius 7y agoThis sentence has only one interpretations.
- vinayms 7y agoChinese is the spoken Lisp.